alcoholics - anyone else having problems trying to get semi sober

[superglue]

The key term is RECOVERING alcoholic.

[Cory1848]

19 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Try going to an AA meeting, you'll learn a lot about the disease.

I wonder what the big book says, recovered or recovering?

I’ve been to a lot of AA meetings -- mostly as a guest accompanying other people who are alcoholics. Everyone I’ve talked to, in meetings and elsewhere, call themselves “recovering alcoholics,” regardless of how much sobriety they have, and they are insistent on that phrase. I’m also aware that AA is not a monolithic organization and that there are different schools of thought; some AA groups may encourage the idea of recovery. If calling yourself “recovered” helps restore self-esteem, then that’s a good thing, but I still consider such a claim to be hubris, knowing too many people who thought they’d been “cured” only to fall right back into it again.

 

As for the Big Book, I’ve read parts of it but not all -- and it certainly has tremendous value, but I wouldn’t call it the “last word” any more than I'd call a religious text the last word on the human condition. I don’t know if it says you can be “cured” of alcoholism or not, but on that question, I would put more stock in how modern medicine and psychology weigh in.

[Neeranam]

24 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

I’ve been to a lot of AA meetings -- mostly as a guest accompanying other people who are alcoholics.

Fair enough, you saying, "I've never attended AA"confused me.

[Cory1848]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Fair enough, you saying, "I've never attended AA"confused me.

I've never "attended" specifically for my own personal benefit, or worked a program or had a sponsor, but I've been to plenty of meetings in support of others -- I have family members who are alcoholic.

[MrPatrickThai]

57 minutes ago, superglue said:

The key term is RECOVERING alcoholic.

The Big Book States " WE, OF Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body.

 

My experience has shown me that the mental obsession has been removed, I have not had a drink for 20 years now and I could never have pulled that off so for me and looking at my experience I saw that God removed from me that mental obsession to drink on my sobriety date. My experience shows me that I was beyond human aid, I could not stay stopped. I tried a number of times and failed. I drank when I did not want to drink. I made lots of promises not to drink and I would find myself with drink in hand. I failed I could not pull it off no matter what I tried. So for me that mental obsession has been taken from me. Once I took a drink the craving demands more alcohol. so for me not to drink then the mental obsession had to be removed first. that is what I came to see God removed the mental obsession first. I saw to that there are some requirements for me to gain conscious contact with God. I saw that by God's Grace I am sober and I needed to follow the path in the big book to have conscious contact with God. God's Grace is unconditional, conscious contact is conditional

[MrPatrickThai]

There are 16 places in the Big Book that the word "Recovered" is used, and not one of them is arrogant or boastful. Just the simple truth.

 

The Story of How Many Thousands of Men and Women Have Recovered from Alcoholism. [Big Book, title page] WE, of Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. [Big Book page xiii, line 2] To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book. [Big Book, page xiii, line 5] Sixteen years have elapsed between our first printing of this book and the presentation in 1955 of our second edition. In that brief space, Alcoholics Anonymous has mushroomed into nearly 6,000 groups whose membership is far above 150,000 recovered alcoholics. [Big Book page xv, line 9] Hence the two men set to work almost frantically upon alcoholics arriving in the ward of the Akron City Hospital. Their very first case, a desperate one, recovered immediately and became A.A. number three. [Big Book page xvii, line 5] This man and over one hundred others appear to have recovered. [Big Book, page xxiii, line 24] Nearly all have recovered. [Big Book, page 17, line 3] Doubtless you are curious to discover how and why, in the face of expert opinion to the contrary, we have recovered from a hopeless condition of mind and body. [Big Book, page 20, line 7] Further on, clear-cut directions are given showing how we recovered. [Big Book, page 29, line 4] If a mere code of morals or a better philosophy of life were sufficient to overcome alcoholism, many of us would have recovered long ago. [Big Book, page 45, line 1] If he says yes, then his attention should be drawn to you as a person who has recovered. [Big Book, page 90, line 23] He often says that if he had continued to work on them, he might have deprived many others, who have since recovered, of their chance. [Big Book, page 96, line 14] He knows that thousands of men, much like himself, have recovered. [Big Book, page 113, line 8] We have recovered, and have been given the power to help others. [Big Book, page 132, line 30] We, who have recovered from serious drinking, are miracles of mental health. [Big Book, page 133, line 14] An alcoholic who has recovered, but holds a relatively unimportant job, can talk to a man with a better position. [Big Book, page 146, line 22]

 

 

http://www.e-aa.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=7195&start=30

[MrPatrickThai]

4 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

I've never "attended" specifically for my own personal benefit, or worked a program or had a sponsor, but I've been to plenty of meetings in support of others -- I have family members who are alcoholic.

Have you ever shared at an AA meeting? 

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

I've never "attended" specifically for my own personal benefit, or worked a program or had a sponsor, but I've been to plenty of meetings in support of others -- I have family members who are alcoholic.

Thanks for the clarification. Good on you for supporting others!

[Cory1848]

10 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Have you ever shared at an AA meeting? 

Yes, occasionally, to the effect that I haven't had a drink in x number of years, that I haven't had any trouble with that so far, and that I don't know if I'm alcoholic or not but hope never to find out! I haven't been to a meeting in several years, although, reading these posts, it may not be a bad idea for me to go to a few again. And thanks for posting all the quotations from the Big Book on "recovered" -- I didn't know what it said, only what the current thinking is on that in my experience, and I've just emailed one of my alcoholic family members back in the US (who attends meetings regularly) to see what she has to say about it --

 

[Wilson Smith]

On 9/21/2017 at 10:11 AM, wanderluster said:

 

hi all

 

i have been what i call i functioning alcoholic for many yrs now.  i never cause any problems, never drink when sun is up, only drink socially in bars but when home the drinks can add up a lot.

recently and not intentionally i have majorly cut down on my drinking...  specially the whisky,  beer is just like drinking water to me, it is the whisky that causes the problems.

from half to 3/4 litre a day i am now down to 2 -3 ounces.  should sound great.  like i said this was not a mental decion to do but just happened..  now for the problem,,  i can not get past stage 1 sleep, therefor i am having strange ugly dreams/sleeps/nightmares.  not f**king fun at all.  i feel i want to go bck to the alcohol, but i know this is probably the best chance i have ever had of getting over my addiction in over 25 yrs. maybe i have insucrity issues. dont think so but maye be. can critisize me all you want. no problem but if anyone has experienced this kind of thing and can provide me some help it would be be grealty helpful.  please do not tell me to go to some religion... 

 

thanks if can can understand and help

 

Feel free to message me.

[MrPatrickThai]

19 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

Yes, occasionally, to the effect that I haven't had a drink in x number of years, that I haven't had any trouble with that so far, and that I don't know if I'm alcoholic or not but hope never to find out! I haven't been to a meeting in several years, although, reading these posts, it may not be a bad idea for me to go to a few again. And thanks for posting all the quotations from the Big Book on "recovered" -- I didn't know what it said, only what the current thinking is on that in my experience, and I've just emailed one of my alcoholic family members back in the US (who attends meetings regularly) to see what she has to say about it --

 

I find it important to let the newcomer have some hope. And, yes it clearly states that when working with a new guy, to introduce yourself as someone who has recovered.  The "recovering" thing comes from the treatment centres and I think important in early recovery to consider yourself recovering until the magic happens and that obsession to drink is removed. I haven't thought about taking a drink for many years. 

[Wilson Smith]

1 hour ago, Cory1848 said:

I’ve been to a lot of AA meetings -- mostly as a guest accompanying other people who are alcoholics. Everyone I’ve talked to, in meetings and elsewhere, call themselves “recovering alcoholics,” regardless of how much sobriety they have, and they are insistent on that phrase. I’m also aware that AA is not a monolithic organization and that there are different schools of thought; some AA groups may encourage the idea of recovery. If calling yourself “recovered” helps restore self-esteem, then that’s a good thing, but I still consider such a claim to be hubris, knowing too many people who thought they’d been “cured” only to fall right back into it again.

 

As for the Big Book, I’ve read parts of it but not all -- and it certainly has tremendous value, but I wouldn’t call it the “last word” any more than I'd call a religious text the last word on the human condition. I don’t know if it says you can be “cured” of alcoholism or not, but on that question, I would put more stock in how modern medicine and psychology weigh in.

Please feel free to contact me.

[jeab1980]

Time to leave this drivel now typical god fearing preachers getting there one and only lines in.

[MrPatrickThai]

3 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Time to leave this drivel now typical god fearing preachers getting there one and only lines in.

Who are you talking about?

 

Kinda impossible to talk about AA and not God.

[Neeranam]

9 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Time to leave this drivel now typical god fearing preachers getting there one and only lines in.

Rather convenient time as you avoid answering my questions.

 

[superglue]

'A power greater than myself.'

[Cory1848]

14 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Time to leave this drivel now typical god fearing preachers getting there one and only lines in.

?? -- Man, did you eat some bad fish last night, or what ??

[PeCeDe]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Rather convenient time as you avoid answering my questions.

 

As most know there are many reasons we can become "alcoholic" or at least behave like one. The AA movement has been a wonderful success around the world and saved many from destruction, it cannot be faulted. That having been said many members can be rather pedantic with "it's our way or no way."  My point is there are many reasons we start drinking out of control, one common reason is to forget and if we don't come to terms with the reason, the drinking won't stop, AA or not. In my case I had one damn good reason to forget and was set to kill myself with the stuff until my symptoms were recognized and I came to terms with the problem. This was all done without the aid of AA. I for one had been an AA member for years but the underlying reason was never addressed thus my eventual falling back into my old drinking pattern.

[superglue]

10 minutes ago, PeCeDe said:

As most know there are many reasons we can become "alcoholic" or at least behave like one. The AA movement has been a wonderful success around the world and saved many from destruction, it cannot be faulted. That having been said many members can be rather pedantic with "it's our way or no way."  My point is there are many reasons we start drinking out of control, one common reason is to forget and if we don't come to terms with the reason, the drinking won't stop, AA or not. In my case I had one damn good reason to forget and was set to kill myself with the stuff until my symptoms were recognized and I came to terms with the problem. This was all done without the aid of AA. I for one had been an AA member for years but the underlying reason was never addressed thus my eventual falling back into my old drinking pattern.

 

How did you get sober & stay sober?

[Wilson Smith]

 

Then they outlined the spiritual answer and program of action which a hundred of them had followed successfully. Though I had been only a nominal churchman, their proposals were not, intellectually, hard to swallow. But the program of action, though entirely sensible, was pretty drastic. It meant I would have to throw several lifelong conceptions out of the window. That was not easy. But the moment I made up my mind to go through with the process, I had the curious feeling that my alcoholic condition was relieved, as in fact it proved to be.
    Quite as important was the discovery that spiritual principles would solve all my problems. I have since been brought into a way of living infinitely more satisfying and, I hope, more useful than the life I lived before. My old manner of life was by no means a bad one, but I would not exchange its best moments for the worst I have now. I would not go back to it even if I could. A.A.'s

 

 

Twelve Steps are a group of principles, spiritual in their nature, which, if practiced as a way of life, can expel the obsession to drink and enable the sufferer to become happily and usefully whole.

 

These little studies of A.A. Twelve Steps now come to a close. We have been considering so many problems that it may appear that A.A. consists mainly of racking dilemmas and troubleshooting. To a certain extent, that is true. We have been talking about problems because we are problem people who have found a way up and out, and who wish to share our knowledge of that way with all who can use it. For it is only by accepting and solving our problems that we can begin to get right with ourselves and with the world about us, and with Him who presides over us all. Understanding is the key to right principles and attitudes, and right action is the key to good living; therefore the joy of good living is the theme of A.A. Twelfth Step.

 

For if an alcoholic failed to perfect and enlarge his spiritual life through work and self-sacrifice for others, he could not survive the certain trials and low spots ahead. It was the end of a perfect day, not a cloud on the horizon.

 

 

Daily Reflections October 7

Daily Reflections October 7 - LINK

 

Resentment is the number 1 offender.  And then there is 2 stepping, “ I am an Alcoholic and I can help you” Well what about all the steps in between?

[PeCeDe]

10 minutes ago, superglue said:

 

How did you get sober & stay sober?

Thanks for the question. Here's a brief recap. I was in the military (Vietnam) but after the war I moved to Canada in disgust over what had happened, then tried to forget. Which consciously I did, but of course you never forget hence my drinking. 30 years later I was in such a mess I had to go to the only person who would help, my sister in the UK. There I accidentally saw a retired British Military Doctor who asked if I'd ever been in the military to which I replied No. He then gave me a questionnaire to fill out, which I scored 100%. Bluntly he told me he thought I was lying. He enrolled me in a UK military PTSD group, that's when the memories started to flood back and after all the years of denial I felt free of the need because the cause had been dealt with.

[PeCeDe]

Just a quick note. What I went through is absolutely not for everyone and AA is a great place to start the process. If you think you have PTSD symptoms there's very good tests on the net. Since my diagnosis I've used lot's of VA resources to great effect, here's a great place to start, 

https://www.ptsd.va.gov/apps/decisionaid/how-can-this-help.aspx

 

I take an SRI religiously. I thank my version of God I found that UK Doctor, both he and my Sister saved my life. So there's always a first step and it has to be you that takes it.

[MuntyC0re]

consult with doctor, you need help and not these stupid discussions

[Neeranam]

On 09/10/2017 at 12:56 PM, PeCeDe said:

As most know there are many reasons we can become "alcoholic" or at least behave like one. The AA movement has been a wonderful success around the world and saved many from destruction, it cannot be faulted. That having been said many members can be rather pedantic with "it's our way or no way."  My point is there are many reasons we start drinking out of control, one common reason is to forget and if we don't come to terms with the reason, the drinking won't stop, AA or not. In my case I had one damn good reason to forget and was set to kill myself with the stuff until my symptoms were recognized and I came to terms with the problem. This was all done without the aid of AA. I for one had been an AA member for years but the underlying reason was never addressed thus my eventual falling back into my old drinking pattern.

Sounds like a typical case of going to AA for the wrong reasons. Make sure you are an alcoholic, and not an alcohol abuser, there's a world of a difference.

[Neeranam]

On 09/10/2017 at 1:27 PM, Wilson Smith said:

Resentment is the number 1 offender.  And then there is 2 stepping, “ I am an Alcoholic and I can help you” Well what about all the steps in between?

One alcoholic helps another to recover, having had a spiritual awakening, as a result of working all 12 steps.