UK - Paying voluntary NI contributions

[simon43]

I'm trying to understand my eligibility to pay voluntary NI contributions, that eligibility being explained on the government website at:

 

https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions/deadlines

 

I don't want to contact the NI office in the UK until I'm reasonably clear on my eligibility.

 

I do know that I haven't made enough NI contributions to obtain a full pension (35 years), because I started work at the age of 26 and I'm now 58.

 

The webpage explains that I can make voluntary NI contributions to cover the past 6 years.  But I think that only applies if one is either living in the UK now, or is living abroad AND was previously living in the UK for 3 years prior to that 6-year start date.  (Is my understanding correct?).

 

Since I left the UK prior to 6 years ago, I think that I'm not eligible to pay these NI contributions.

 

But that webpage also states:

 

"You’re a man born after 5 April 1951 or a woman born after 5 April 1953
You have until 5 April 2023 to pay voluntary contributions to make up for gaps between April 2006 and April 2016"

 

... and goes on to say that if you're living abroad now, you can make those contributions if (see above), you were previously living in the UK for 3 years prior to that start date.

 

I started visiting Thailand in about 2002.  But I was still travelling to/from the UK after that date, managing a UK online business.  When I apply to the NI office for a reminder of my NI number (I've forgotten it after all these years), it is therefore important that I do not say (offhand) that I left the UK in 2002 (which isn't true anyway).  It is important for me to very carefully check what date I stopped living in the UK and started living permanently in Thailand.

 

I'd appreciate some advice from fellow UK posters about this.  The UK pension is not huge, but it seems sensible to top up on my 'years' if I can do this.

[Eff1n2ret]

I can't answer your question exactly, but I recently went through the process of making a voluntary contribution for my wife to qualify for at least the minimum retirement pension, for which you need at least 10years' contributions. Her situation was that she was 2 years short and had made no contributions since we left the UK nearly 8 years ago. It was sorted out in a couple of phone calls, to the International Pensions Centre at Newcastle and subsequently to HMRC, as it is they who collect the contributions, not the DWP.

I would recommend that you phone the International Pensions Centre - they are normally very helpful, as was the chap at HMRC who gave me the exact details for an online lump sum transfer for the two cheapest years out of the last 6. Sorry I don't have the phone numbers to hand, but  you might like to navigate around this page for some background info:-

 

https://www.gov.uk/pay-voluntary-class-3-national-insurance/bank-details

[partington]

You only have to have lived in the UK for 3 consecutive years at any time to pay class 2 or 3 voluntary contributions. Class 2 you must have worked just before you left.

 

Are you working now? Even if you are, you can still just pay class 3 contributions and say you're not working if asked.

 

Also ask for a pension forecast  and an NI record - it's easy to do and the information is very useful- the NI record is a print out of all the years you paid in, how much you paid, and whether those years are "qualifying" , that is count towards your state pension.

 

I did this and found to my surprise that one year didn't count because it was literally £54 short. So I paid this by check and got a full additional year!

Edited September 25, 2017 by partington

[jacko45k]

I am still paying voluntary contributions myself, I believe it is now 30 years of full payment to qualify for the full pension. There is a government website you can visit to check this... you may need a VPN. You need a Government Gateway ID.

 

I have over the years caught up on my 'stamps' via various methods, cheque paid over the Post Offic counter, and setting up direct debits. The latter was like pulling teeth as they are not easy to deal with.

Each month it is £65-£70 and whether it is worthwhile is up to you to determine.

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by jacko45k

[transam]

3 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I am still paying voluntary contributions myself, I believe it is now 30 years of full payment to qualify for the full pension. There is a government website you can visit to check this... you may need a VPN. You need a Government Gateway ID.

 

I have over the years caught up on my 'stamps' via various methods, cheque paid over the Post Offic counter, and setting up direct debits. The latter was like pulling teeth as they are not easy to deal with.

Each month it is £65-£70 and whether it is worthwhile is up to you to determine.

 

Think it is still 35 years..

[jacko45k]

9 minutes ago, transam said:

Think it is still 35 years..

And I think it is 30, perhaps it varies depending on age?

Anyhow here is the UK Government site.

[transam]

Just now, jacko45k said:

And I think it is 30, perhaps it varies depending on age?

Anyhow here is the UK Government site.

You are right, they altered it back to 30 years last year, l wonder why...

[transam]

I packed up work early in 2006, then they had put it up from 30 to 35 years, thankfully l had 36...

[simon43]

• Thanks for the replies.  First, I need to apply by post for a reminder of my NI number.

I checked some documents and found that in 2006 I still had a UK address.  I was running my own 'one-man-band' UK services company, but mainly living in Bangkok.

 

So it will be OK to provide that last address on my NI application and go from there.

 

As to whether it is sensible to top up on the number of years of contributions, I assume that one gets back more than one puts in?  In which case, it seems the sensible thing to do.

[jacko45k]

24 minutes ago, transam said:

You are right, they altered it back to 30 years last year, l wonder why...

Well I just logged on, didn't need a VPN and allowed me to put in a Thai number for ACCESS code..but... it now tells me I need 3 more years to get the full pension when previously I thought I had reached the limit! I did double check and it said 30 years to qualify for full state pension.

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, simon43 said:

• Thanks for the replies.  First, I need to apply by post for a reminder of my NI number.

I checked some documents and found that in 2006 I still had a UK address.  I was running my own 'one-man-band' UK services company, but mainly living in Bangkok.

 

So it will be OK to provide that last address on my NI application and go from there.

 

As to whether it is sensible to top up on the number of years of contributions, I assume that one gets back more than one puts in?  In which case, it seems the sensible thing to do.

Depends on how long you live I guess......

[transam]

2 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Well I just logged on, didn't need a VPN and allowed me to put in a Thai number for ACCESS code..but... it now tells me I need 3 more years to get the full pension when previously I thought I had reached the limit! I did double check and it said 30 years to qualify for full state pension.

[jacko45k]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

Maybe the government site hasn't been updated yet?

[transam]

5 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Maybe the government site hasn't been updated yet?

I phoned them when I was sorting stuff, spoke to a nice bloke who put me in the picture..

[12DrinkMore]

The problem is that the blundering and incompetent UK adminstration keep faffing around with the rules. IMO they should not do this, as saving for a pension is important and the goalposts should remain clear and achievable throughout a working life. Now it is one helluva mess. And that c0nt Hammond has further murked the waters.

 

Quote

Chancellor Philip Hammond has hinted the state pension will no longer be ring-fenced from spending cuts after 2020 – raising for the first time the prospect of pensioners' benefits being cut as part of the Government’s austerity measures.

 

If in doubt, read Wiki.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Pension_(United_Kingdom)

 

I cannot find any inaccuracies. The government website does not seem to have been updated. Usual UK incompetence and "can't be ar5ed" attitude at play.

 

30 or 35 years? If you are retiring now you need 35 years to get the single tier pension. Previously it was 30 years and before that 44 years.

 

When can you retire? See the wiki. Born before 5th April 1960 you will be 66. After that a weird sliding scale created by a jobsworth moron.

 

Additional contributions? Claim self-employment and pay Class 2. They work out at 155 Quid or so for each year.

 

I could rant on for hours about the utter idiocy being exhibited by the UK administration. They are incompentent fools But I would need to go and get some meds first....

 

 

[Chongalulu]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

• Thanks for the replies.  First, I need to apply by post for a reminder of my NI number.

I checked some documents and found that in 2006 I still had a UK address.  I was running my own 'one-man-band' UK services company, but mainly living in Bangkok.

 

So it will be OK to provide that last address on my NI application and go from there.

 

As to whether it is sensible to top up on the number of years of contributions, I assume that one gets back more than one puts in?  In which case, it seems the sensible thing to do.

An important aspect you need to consider is where you will spend your retirement. If in Thailand,as you know your pension will be frozen at the rate when you claim it (no annual increases) so in effect the extra years you buy will be  of less value compared to someone uk based doing the same by virtue of those additional purchased years and subsequent higher pension getting the annual increase . Whether still worth doing is not a calculation I have to hand but will likely be imprecise anyway as annual increase are based on the triple lock equation...which may change in 2020 anyway. 

[stubuzz]

You can check your NI payments online. You have to register with the UK.gov site. Google it.

[Eff1n2ret]

5 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

As to whether it is sensible to top up on the number of years of contributions, I assume that one gets back more than one puts in? 

In my wife's case, (see my previous post) for a lump sum of less than £2000 for the years 2010-2011 and 2011-2012 she will get from age 68 about £70/week = more than £3500 a year, so she only has to live a year to be in profit. The pension is not a huge amount, but it's a useful supplement for an elderly lady living in Thailand.

[sometimewoodworker]

If you reached 65 before 1 April 2016 you needed 30 qualifying years to collect the full pension.

 

if you reached, or will reach, 65 on or after 1 April 2016 you needed 35 qualifying years to collect the full pension.

 

this is just for the basic pension. The start age for the pension will increase.

 

almost anyone can add extra qualifying years up to 35 before they reach the retirement age.

 

it is the best ROI you will ever find, it takes about 4 years of pension to get back your class 3 contribution.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

 

As to whether it is sensible to top up on the number of years of contributions, I assume that one gets back more than one puts in?  In which case, it seems the sensible thing to do.

The only people for whom it does not make sense are those who know that they will not live to collect the pension for more than 4 years from retirement. (Or are very rich)

 

For  everyone else (who is not very rich), you would be stupid not to pay it 

Edited September 26, 2017 by sometimewoodworker

[baansgr]

Every budget brings changes to pension arrangements. Depending on your age also determines when you are entitled to your state pension and of course not forgetting if you were contracted out or in of SERPS/SP2 how much you are entitled to. The age will increase to 67 years of age and probably 68 years for anyone born after April 1970 and this could even increase to 69 or 70 at the stroke of the Chancellors pen. If the cost of 10 years NI top up dosnt even cover the increase you will gain over 10 years then it dosnt make sense to do it

[baansgr]

Just now, Eff1n2ret said:

In my wife's case, (see my previous post) for a lump sum of less than £2000 for the years 2010-2011 and 2011-2012 she will get from age 68 about £70/week = more than £3500 a year, so she only has to live a year to be in profit. The pension is not a huge amount, but it's a useful supplement for an elderly lady living in Thailand.

2 years NI payments gets her an EXTRA £70 per week?

[Nbarch]

This is a confusing subject - because of all the variations made by different governments.

The new single rate pension will simplify things - but only if you are eligible.

An essential first step is to get a (free) pension forecast statement from the government.

[topt]

14 hours ago, partington said:

Also ask for a pension forecast  and an NI record - it's easy to do and the information is very useful- the NI record is a print out of all the years you paid in, how much you paid, and whether those years are "qualifying" , that is count towards your state pension.

 

I did this and found to my surprise that one year didn't count because it was literally £54 short. So I paid this by check and got a full additional year!

Was this online or a written reply?

 

OP needs to ring up and ask regarding his specific situation as my online forecast showed a year (in the last 6) where I was short of about £65 but even if I paid this it would not count towards increasing my contributing years towards the new 35 year target. To do this I needed to pay contributions from the 2016 tax year onwards - IE from when the latest changes came into effect.

 

To me this is completely unclear from the online forecast and the gov.uk pages mentioned by the OP.

 

Following the call with the pension Advisory Service I have completed a form CF 83 linked at the bottom of the page https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance-if-you-go-abroad  and am awaiting the feedback - I put a question mark in the boxes for whether I wanted Class 2 or 3 as I don't know which I am allowed and the "advisor" could not tell me.......

 

The advisor also gave me this no. to contact directly to find out 0044 191 203 7010 - however this was the no. I called originally who then set up the call with the advisory service.......

[Eff1n2ret]

2 hours ago, baansgr said:

2 years NI payments gets her an EXTRA £70 per week?

That will be her total entitlement. She was 2 years short of sufficient contributions to qualify for any pension. In that sense, I suppose 70 is extra to 0.

[GarryP]

I have lived in Thailand since 1982 and never paid NI contributions since I left (I think my mum paid a couple of years for me). I have no idea what my NI number is but assume my number will have remained unchanged. Would it be worth while to pay the missing 30 odd years? I highly doubt it, even if it were possible, but would be interested in hearing what you think.  

[simon43]

Again, thanks for all the advice.  Since I've forgotten my NI number, the very first thing to do is to apply by post for this - you complete the form online and print that out.

 

Once I have my NI number, I can get a pension forecast and think about voluntary payments.  Class 2 contributions are much less than class 3, and since I was self-employed for most of my working life in the UK, I assume that I will be able to top up using class 2.

 

Seems that since I was born in 1959, I will have to wait until I'm 66 to get my meagre pension.

 

I know about the pension freeze for those who live in Thailand, (or any other country where there is no bilateral agreement with the UK).  Only The Philippines has such an agreement in place in Asia.

 

I know that many UK pensioners moan at the UK government for freezing their pensions due to lack of this bilateral agreement.  Seems to me that the direction of their frustration should be to try to persuade the Thai and UK governments to reach a bilateral agreement, rather than demonstrate against this regulation.

 

(It's not impossible that I could retire to The Philippines...)

[transam]

8 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Again, thanks for all the advice.  Since I've forgotten my NI number, the very first thing to do is to apply by post for this - you complete the form online and print that out.

 

Once I have my NI number, I can get a pension forecast and think about voluntary payments.  Class 2 contributions are much less than class 3, and since I was self-employed for most of my working life in the UK, I assume that I will be able to top up using class 2.

 

Seems that since I was born in 1959, I will have to wait until I'm 66 to get my meagre pension.

 

I know about the pension freeze for those who live in Thailand, (or any other country where there is no bilateral agreement with the UK).  Only The Philippines has such an agreement in place in Asia.

 

I know that many UK pensioners moan at the UK government for freezing their pensions due to lack of this bilateral agreement.  Seems to me that the direction of their frustration should be to try to persuade the Thai and UK governments to reach a bilateral agreement, rather than demonstrate against this regulation.

 

(It's not impossible that I could retire to The Philippines...)

Or Florida....

[Chicken George]

5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

And I think it is 30, perhaps it varies depending on age?

Anyhow here is the UK Government site.

It's definitely 35years.. 100%

[transam]

Just now, Chicken George said:

It's definitely 35years.. 100%

I thought so too...