Couple agrees to remove Buddha images from fence at their Chiang Mai house

[Kieran00001]

34 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

That would be most Thais then.

 

I think it is important to know;

 

01 If the gold paint had any gold in it

02 Were the concrete heads painted before they were put on the wall or after.

 

 

I think a lot of those who generalise in their criticisms of Thai Buddhists might just see something in their own people, many of us come from countries with large numbers of extremely hypocritical religious "followers", don't we?  It is all just projection that we are seeing?

[oldhippy]

15 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I think a lot of those who generalise in their criticisms of Thai Buddhists might just see something in their own people, many of us come from countries with large numbers of extremely hypocritical religious "followers", don't we?  It is all just projection that we are seeing?

Not all of us come from the USA.

 

[oldhippy]

We are currently in Europe.

EVERY garden centre and flower shop has buddha statues, even many restaurants and private gardens and houses.

Because buddha is associated with tanquility, peace of mind.

I think that Farang wishy-washy buddhism is less alienated from original buddhism than Thai buddhism.

[Kieran00001]

22 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Not all of us come from the USA.

 

 

Of course we don't, I come from the UK for instance, another country with a large amount of extremely hypocritical "followers", is there a country with a large amount of Christians that does not also have a large amount of hypocrites?

[oldhippy]

On 27/09/2017 at 11:42 AM, Muzarella said:

Really may be dificult to live in a Buddhist country with negative views of Buddhism

Fortunately for me, I do not consider Thailand to be a buddhist country.

So it is easy for me, not difficult, and plenty of laughs.

 

[oldhippy]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Of course we don't, I come from the UK for instance, another country with a large amount of extremely hypocritical "followers", is there a country with a large amount of Christians that does not also have a large amount of hypocrites?

Depending on your definition of "large amounts", I would say all of Western and Northern Europe.

 

[owl sees all]

Just now, oldhippy said:

Not all of us come from the USA.

The US have one of the biggest problems with religion in the world. Although It is the home of secuarlism it didn't stop Bush finishing each speech with the sentence "God bless America." The founding fathers would be turning in their graves.

 

The problems of countries that have an amalgamation of government and religion (state religion) are mixed. England has stability while others including Thailand are not so fortunate.

 

Indoctrination of children with religious clap-trap could be the biggest problem the world faces today.

Edited September 28, 2017 by owl sees all

[Kieran00001]

7 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

We are currently in Europe.

EVERY garden centre and flower shop has buddha statues, even many restaurants and private gardens and houses.

Because buddha is associated with tanquility, peace of mind.

I think that Farang wishy-washy buddhism is less alienated from original buddhism than Thai buddhism.

 

What exactly are you basing that on?  Original Buddhism comes from a country where the head is considered most sacred and the feet unclean, and thus the placing of a statue of any revered person on the ground where our unclean feet tread is considered utterly disrespectful.  What I see in the garden centre ornaments is this, Buddha is not an ornament, the only one reason to make or have a statue of Buddha is for the purpose of providing a focus on the Dhamma, it is not for some wishy-washy association between tranquility and your garden space, tranquility is the fifth factor of enlightenment, ignoring the second factor, investigation, something that could only lead to not placing a statue of Buddha amongst the roses as a symbol of how you hope your garden will make you feel, is hardly evidence of being less alienated from true Buddhism.

[Kieran00001]

9 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Depending on your definition of "large amounts", I would say all of Western and Northern Europe.

 

 

Southern and Eastern Europe also have large amounts.

[Kieran00001]

13 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Fortunately for me, I do not consider Thailand to be a buddhist country.

So it is easy for me, not difficult, and plenty of laughs.

 

 

Do you consider anywhere to be a Buddhist country?  

[oldhippy]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Do you consider anywhere to be a Buddhist country?  

no

 

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

no

 

 

Good, there are no countries owned by religion.

[oldhippy]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Good, there are no countries owned by religion.

But some countries (or their governments) think they own the religion.

 

[owl sees all]

Just now, Kieran00001 said:

Original Buddhism comes from a country where the head is considered most sacred and the feet unclean, and thus the placing of a statue of any revered person on the ground where our unclean feet tread is considered utterly disrespectful.

Substance before belief. Evidence before faith. Facts before hurt feelings. Common sense before myth.

 

The countries that think they are the guardians of religion are some of the most backward thinkers in the world.

[Kieran00001]

3 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

But some countries (or their governments) think they own the religion.

 

 

Sure, some kings claim to be the incarnate of the prophet for example, I don't think this applies to Thailand though.

[owl sees all]

Just now, Kieran00001 said:

Good, there are no countries owned by religion.

Religion should not own countries either.

[oldhippy]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Sure, some kings claim to be the incarnate of the prophet for example, I don't think this applies to Thailand though.

The expression "THAI buddhism" says it all.

The Thai government owns buddhism, or so they think.

 

Similar to "The church of England" - difference is, that almost nobody goes for that nonsense anymore in 2017.

 

[canuckamuck]

30 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

What exactly are you basing that on?  Original Buddhism comes from a country where the head is considered most sacred and the feet unclean, and thus the placing of a statue of any revered person on the ground where our unclean feet tread is considered utterly disrespectful.  What I see in the garden centre ornaments is this, Buddha is not an ornament, the only one reason to make or have a statue of Buddha is for the purpose of providing a focus on the Dhamma, it is not for some wishy-washy association between tranquility and your garden space, tranquility is the fifth factor of enlightenment, ignoring the second factor, investigation, something that could only lead to not placing a statue of Buddha amongst the roses as a symbol of how you hope your garden will make you feel, is hardly evidence of being less alienated from true Buddhism.

Do you think if the Buddha walked into a 21st century garden center he would be concerned about the placement of his image? Or would he instead be very concerned with why people have those things in the first place, after he taught that attachments are the cause of suffering?

[oldhippy]

30 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

What exactly are you basing that on?  Original Buddhism comes from a country where the head is considered most sacred and the feet unclean, and thus the placing of a statue of any revered person on the ground where our unclean feet tread is considered utterly disrespectful.  What I see in the garden centre ornaments is this, Buddha is not an ornament, the only one reason to make or have a statue of Buddha is for the purpose of providing a focus on the Dhamma, it is not for some wishy-washy association between tranquility and your garden space, tranquility is the fifth factor of enlightenment, ignoring the second factor, investigation, something that could only lead to not placing a statue of Buddha amongst the roses as a symbol of how you hope your garden will make you feel, is hardly evidence of being less alienated from true Buddhism.

 QUOTE: >>>>>> What I see in the garden centre ornaments is this, Buddha is not an ornament, the only one reason to make or have a statue of Buddha is for the purpose of providing a focus on the Dhamma, it is not for some wishy-washy association between tranquility and your garden space, tranquility is the fifth factor of enlightenment, ignoring the second factor, investigation, something that could only lead to not placing a statue of Buddha amongst the roses as a symbol of how you hope your garden will make you feel, is hardly evidence of being less alienated from true Buddhism.<<<<<

 

Please provide punctuation and syntax. I will then re-read your post, and maybe understand your point.

[Kieran00001]

6 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Substance before belief. Evidence before faith. Facts before hurt feelings. Common sense before myth.

 

The countries that think they are the guardians of religion are some of the most backward thinkers in the world.

 

Then Buddha himself was one of the most backward thinkers in your opinion, as one of the first notable things he did was to sit at the feet of the greatest religious teachers of his day, he believed in the notion of paying respect by lowering oneself to the level of the feet of those you respect.  And the question was whether those buying a Buddha to adorn their garden, as in their limited knowledge Buddhism just represents tranquility, are less alienated from original Buddhism than Thai Buddhists, it is quite clear that Thai Buddhists vary greatly,  but none are so ignorant as to make such childlike moves as to use his statue as an ornament to provide a subconscious message to their visitors regarding the one little thing they have heard about the religion, neither are any as ignorant as to place a statue of him beneath them, down in the dirt, truly it is just done due to not having true respect for Buddha, Jesus also spoke of the same notion, of finding tranquility, but you don't see Jesus garden ornaments nor do you see people place small statues of Jesus on the ground, these people are using Buddha as a cheap trinket.

[Kieran00001]

2 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

 QUOTE: >>>>>> What I see in the garden centre ornaments is this, Buddha is not an ornament, the only one reason to make or have a statue of Buddha is for the purpose of providing a focus on the Dhamma, it is not for some wishy-washy association between tranquility and your garden space, tranquility is the fifth factor of enlightenment, ignoring the second factor, investigation, something that could only lead to not placing a statue of Buddha amongst the roses as a symbol of how you hope your garden will make you feel, is hardly evidence of being less alienated from true Buddhism.<<<<<

 

Please provide punctuation and syntax. I will then re-read your post, and maybe understand your point.

 

The sentence is properly punctuated, the syntax is clear, try again.

[sinbin]

Whoever built that wall was having a laugh. Worst build I've ever seen. The builder should be made to take that down as well.

Edited September 28, 2017 by sinbin

[oldhippy]

4 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Then Buddha himself was one of the most backward thinkers in your opinion, as one of the first notable things he did was to sit at the feet of the greatest religious teachers of his day, he believed in the notion of paying respect by lowering oneself to the level of the feet of those you respect.  And the question was whether those buying a Buddha to adorn their garden, as in their limited knowledge Buddhism just represents tranquility, are less alienated from original Buddhism than Thai Buddhists, it is quite clear that Thai Buddhists vary greatly,  but none are so ignorant as to make such childlike moves as to use his statue as an ornament to provide a subconscious message to their visitors regarding the one little thing they have heard about the religion, neither are any as ignorant as to place a statue of him beneath them, down in the dirt, truly it is just done due to not having true respect for Buddha, Jesus also spoke of the same notion, of finding tranquility, but you don't see Jesus garden ornaments nor do you see people place small statues of Jesus on the ground, these people are using Buddha as a cheap trinket.

feet fetishism.

 

[Kieran00001]

6 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Do you think if the Buddha walked into a 21st century garden center he would be concerned about the placement of his image? Or would he instead be very concerned with why people have those things in the first place, after he taught that attachments are the cause of suffering?

 

This really is very simple stuff, he would be concerned with how his image is being used, for aesthetic adornment, not constructively as he said icons can be used, as a means of staying focussed on teachings.

[oldhippy]

2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The sentence is properly punctuated, the syntax is clear, try again.

My primary school teachers would have disagreed.

 

[Kieran00001]

18 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

The expression "THAI buddhism" says it all.

The Thai government owns buddhism, or so they think.

 

Similar to "The church of England" - difference is, that almost nobody goes for that nonsense anymore in 2017.

 

 

Thai Buddhism simple refers to the unique eccentricities seen in Thailands Buddhism, the amalgamation of some Chinese and ancient Thai customs, but they remain a part of Theravada Buddhism, they are not like the Church of England in this respect.

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

My primary school teachers would have disagreed.

 

 

I am sure you would love to be right on this one but you are not, we can break it down and discuss each and every clause if you like.

[owl sees all]

Just now, Kieran00001 said:

Then Buddha himself was one of the most backward thinkers in your opinion, as one of the first notable things he did was to sit at the feet of the greatest religious teachers of his day, he believed in the notion of paying respect by lowering oneself to the level of the feet of those you respect. <snip snip> these people are using Buddha as a cheap trinket.

Everyone is equal. Science is enough to kick all religions into the dust bin. The reason they continue is through indoctrination of children and regeims and groups holding on to power to dictate to the masses.

 

I don't care if the guy put the concrete heads on the wall and painted them. I don't care if they looked nice or not. What I care about is the religious <deleted> getting oh so easily offended. Sounds like the Salman Rushdie affair or ultra US Christians insisting that the earth is less than 10k years old. 

 

It's all nonsense.

Edited September 28, 2017 by owl sees all

[oldhippy]

4 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I am sure you would love to be right on this one but you are not, we can break it down and discuss each and every clause if you like.

Your post exceeds my span of attention by lightyears.

Sorry.

 

[Kieran00001]

2 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Everyone is equal. Science is enough to kick all religions into the dust bin. The reason they continue is through indoctrination of children and holding on to power.

 

I don't care if the guy put the cocrete heads on the wall and painted them. I don't care if they looked nice or not. What I care about is the religious <deleted> getting oh so easily offended. Sounds like the Salman Rushdie affair or ultra US Christians insisting that the earth is less than 10k years old. 

 

It's all nonsense.

 

I do actually agree, I could not be offended by anything like this myself, but I do also respect others enough as to try not to offend them, no matter how trivial or misguided I may feel the offence may be, I just make an effort to prevent upsetting people.