Low Water Pressure

[BEVUP]

2 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Besides being illegal, bad neighbor, and a danger?  Pumping directly from mains can draw both groundwater (if any breaks in line) and neighbors wash water if hose in pail and water pressure goes negative.  If there is not enough pressure to get to top of tank they should have underground tanks or a low tank and pump from that to larger tanks.

 

Pump from tank does not require anything but water source - as long as there is water in the source tank the pump will be happy and work fine.  But the source tank should not be air tight - leave that to your pressure tank (if you have one - and highly advise having).

The water gets to the the tanks (standard Moo Baan tank ) , going by mine

The man across the rd has a standard one + a taller 1500 lt tank (which no doubt take a long time to fill ) - 3 people in house

The women across the rd is putting in a 3rd standard Moo Baan tank 

 

I'm presuming these 2 are just putting in the pump to try & fill these tanks quicker, but one would think that theory would be dominated by the Moo Baan supply/pressure & would only work if all the  residents with one tank were full & they sill had like 2 tanks to fill

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

The water gets to the the tanks (standard Moo Baan tank ) , going by mine

The man across the rd has a standard one + a taller 1500 lt tank (which no doubt take a long time to fill ) - 3 people in house

The women across the rd is putting in a 3rd standard Moo Baan tank 

 

I'm presuming these 2 are just putting in the pump to try & fill these tanks quicker, but one would think that theory would be dominated by the Moo Baan supply/pressure & would only work if all the  residents with one tank were full & they sill had like 2 tanks to fill

It really should not take that long to fill tanks as you never use all of the water unless there is an extended outage.  I have two 1250 tanks joined at bottom so just fill one and draw from the other and have 2500 available for house of 9 people.  Never come close to empty tanks.  

[BEVUP]

1 minute ago, lopburi3 said:

It really should not take that long to fill tanks as you never use all of the water unless there is an extended outage.  I have two 1250 tanks joined at bottom so just fill one and draw from the other and have 2500 available for house of 9 people.  Never come close to empty tanks.  

The Moo baan is up in Korat & water pressure low 

At the moment we have no water (might be due to recent works ) but still not unusual 

But the ? is would putting a pump between the Meter & Tank fill them quicker if all the Moo Baan's tanks were being filled at once

[Pib]

28 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

This was very simple from the start

You did not have a pressure cut off switch for the lack of supply water from Moo Baan

This brings me to a question as 2 houses across the road are in the process of putting a pump between the meter & tank

 

?????  WHAT IS THE POINT OF PUTTING IN SUCH PUMP

 

! So lets say you get a certain amount of water (pending time of day ) & it takes like 2-3 hrs to 1/2 fill your typical Moo Baan tank 

 

Is this pump going to cut this time in half ?

 

If the water pressure is just enough to have a trickle into the tank (which may take most the night to refill tank ) will it be enough for the pump or will it no doubt being going on off all night ?

 

All depends on the pressure in the soi main. 

 

In my own western Bangkok moobaan up until about  a year ago during times of the day and in the early night hours the pressure was not higher enough in the soi main to fill my tank.  The vertical distance between the soi main burined one meter deep and the top of my tank is approx 3 meters total.   Through use of a pressure gauge and other testing I found the soi main pressure would drop to around 2 to 3 psi within the soi main...just not enough pressure to push water higher enough to go into the top of my tank to fill it up where approx 4 to 5 psi would be need to get a trickle of water going into the tan,

 

However, due to the way I have my piping/switching setup I can suck water direct from the soi main and/or the tank...most everyone in my moobaan has a setup like that.  I could set my pump to suck directly only from the soi main and it would work fine....that 2 to 3 psi (maybe less)always in the soi main was more than enough to allow the pump to work properly.

 

Since then the water company has upgraded/replaced water lines in my moobaan and the soi main has around 10-15 psi pressure....no more problems in the pressure being high enough to reach the top of my storage tank to fill it up which allows folks to suck only from their tanks.

 

 

[BEVUP]

6 minutes ago, Pib said:

All depends on the pressure in the soi main. 

 

In my own western Bangkok moobaan up until about  a year ago during times of the day and in the early night hours the pressure was not higher enough in the soi main to fill my tank.  The vertical distance between the soi main burined one meter deep and the top of my tank is approx 3 meters total.   Through use of a pressure gauge and other testing I found the soi main pressure would drop to around 2 to 3 psi within the soi main...just not enough pressure to push water higher enough to go into the top of my tank to fill it up where approx 4 to 5 psi would be need to get a trickle of water going into the tan,

 

However, due to the way I have my piping/switching setup I can suck water direct from the soi main and/or the tank...most everyone in my moobaan has a setup like that.  I could set my pump to suck directly only from the soi main and it would work fine....that 2 to 3 psi (maybe less)always in the soi main was more than enough to allow the pump to work properly.

 

Since then the water company has upgraded/replaced water lines in my moobaan and the soi main has around 10-15 psi pressure....no more problems in the pressure being high enough to reach the top of my storage tank to fill it up which allows folks to suck only from their tanks.

 

 

Yes, understand that as that might be part of the neighbours theory, but if the pressure was 6 psi would the pump assist in filling the tank quicker if all the Moo Baan was drawing water as well

[lopburi3]

Yes the pump would assist until there was no water available to pump as it would steel from those that did not have a pump.

[BEVUP]

17 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Yes the pump would assist until there was no water available to pump as it would steel from those that did not have a pump.

Just found out the man across the rd on the corner doesn't get much water as his neighbour already has a pump

                                                                    I                                               I

                                                                    I *                                             I

                                                ___________I_*______________________*_I

                                                                       I

                                                                       I

                                                                       I

                                                                      Me

                                                                       

Thanks Lopburi, as this is the situation unfolding at the moment' Im presuming I'm being fed from the main across the rd

* = the existing & installation of new pumps

Edited January 23, 2018 by BEVUP

[Pib]

2 hours ago, BEVUP said:

Yes, understand that as that might be part of the neighbours theory, but if the pressure was 6 psi would the pump assist in filling the tank quicker if all the Moo Baan was drawing water as well

Yes it would.  Before the water company upgraded/replaced our soi main pipes which allowed higher pressures I made a piping modification at my pump & tank to where I pumped from the soi main and feed that water into my tank to fill it up quickly. 

 

I only did this when there was not enough pressure in the soi main to reach the top of my tank to refill it and when there was fear even the soi main may go dry for a while.  So, needed to refill the tank so I could use that water if the soi main when totally dry for a day or so.  

 

For many months I had no problem sucking directly from the soi main when I had to and when the soi main pressure was so low it couldn't  refill my tank.   I was almost like sucking out of well...plenty of water to suck....just very little pressure in the soi main.

[aoneseller]

On 1/23/2018 at 10:55 AM, lopburi3 said:

But the source tank should not be air tight

Yes. Mine not air tight anymore. Since I opened the vent ( or flood) hole the pump is working fine.

[Pib]

14 hours ago, aoneseller said:

Yes. Mine not air tight anymore. Since I opened the vent ( or flood) hole the pump is working fine.

What kind of storage tank do  you have that you can make air tight?   Got a picture?

 

You know what it takes to make something air tight.   All storage tanks I have seen/had (steel or fiber) have a lid the closes/screws down but the lid is far from being air tight....the tolerances are just not that tight.  Even the ones that screw down usually have one or two small holes a millimeter or two in size  (small little guys) specifically to keep them from being air tight if you did happen to get a really good seal by screwing down/closing the lid really tight.   Those holes are for safety purposes/to relieve any pressure build up/allow just a little air in.

[lopburi3]

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

What kind of storage tank do  you have that you can make air tight?   Got a picture?

 

You know what it takes to make something air tight.   All storage tanks I have seen/had (steel or fiber) have a lid the closes/screws down but the lid is far from being air tight....the tolerances are just not that tight.  Even the ones that screw down usually have one or two small holes a millimeter or two in size  (small little guys) specifically to keep them from being air tight if you did happen to get a really good seal by screwing down/closing the lid really tight.   Those holes are for safety purposes/to relieve any pressure build up/allow just a little air in.

I suspect you could create a vacuum in most SS tanks with flip covers, pulling lid tight against tank, if the vent hole were covered (as some will do to keep insects out).  Mine were originally installed in that manner and had to pull very hard to lift center cover after pump usage.  

[Pib]

Anything is possible, but with the stainless steel tank flip lid tank I previously had and the current fiber tank screw-on lid I now have there is just no way they are/were air tight.    Maybe hard to remove some times, but far from being air tight.

 

Maybe the tank installer decided to use a little silicone on the lid to really seal things up for some unknown (not so smart) reason.

[aoneseller]

I have DOS fiber water tank (looks like sandcarving). The lid has to screw down. The lid is not sealed down. I don't know why but I have to open the vent ( or flood ) hole on the lid so the pump will cut off as should. 

Circulate the air or release pressure or temp or humidity, I don't know but if the hole is closed the pump will not turn off in the evenings. 

Before I thought the voltage drop could mess up with the pump but not. By opening the hole fixed my problem.

[rnalswls2]

On 9/28/2017 at 9:36 AM, VocalNeal said:

 

Ok that is what you need. Just a small one say 150W will do you for times when the mains pressure is a bit low. Mitsubishi has a sizing chart on their website. It will come on when needed and switch off when not.

The problem maybe to find a spot for it in a townhouse. Under the stairs on the ground floor? You may even be pleasantly surprised that the piping under the stairs is ready for a pump?

 

But yes you could ask a local plumber to check the meter for blockage but I suspect the area has expanded and that demand has gone up.

Hi, 

 

I have a similar issue in my condo, and I'm thinking to buy this... is it what you are suggesting? Also, would it be okay to install in condo instead of a house?

[lopburi3]

2 hours ago, rnalswls2 said:

Hi, 

 

I have a similar issue in my condo, and I'm thinking to buy this... is it what you are suggesting? Also, would it be okay to install in condo instead of a house?

You might want to hear one in use - those I have had the misfortune to hear have extremely loud solenoids that activate each time water starts/stops and for low flow continually activate.  Grundfos pumps are much quieter but even they would probably not be acceptable inside a condo (and they are much more expensive).

[aoneseller]

I was talking about leaving the vent hole open in the water tank. Please ignore this.

The same problem came back ( pump won't shut off in the evening). Then I adjusted the pressure switch, both screws ( range and shut off screw) and now the pump is OK.

However the range screw on the pressure switch kind of soft metal, I am afraid if I have to adjust in the future it will be completly disformed...

[lopburi3]

5 minutes ago, aoneseller said:

I was talking about leaving the vent hole open in the water tank. Please ignore this.

The same problem came back ( pump won't shut off in the evening). Then I adjusted the pressure switch, both screws ( range and shut off screw) and now the pump is OK.

However the range screw on the pressure switch kind of soft metal, I am afraid if I have to adjust in the future it will be completly disformed...

Pressure switch is a replaceable item on pumps I had (and they do fail).  Probably better to replace.

[Pib]

You really shouldn't be adjusting the electrical pressure switch "unless" you have a water pressure gauge to ensure you are setting the upper and lower pressure switching points correctly (i.e., the pump on, pump off pressure trigger points).   

 

One screw (the screw on top) will move "both" the upper and lower trigger points at the same time.   Ex: say the pump turns on at 2.1 bars and turns off at 2.8 bars.  By adjusting that screw it would adjust both pressure up or down like say change it to approx 2.3 bars and 3.1 bars....or 1.8 bars and 2.5 bars.....etc.

 

The other screw will adjust the "span" between the upper and lower points.   Ex: say the pump comes on at 2.1 bars and turns off at 2.8 bars.  By adjusting that screw it would lessen or widen the span.  It might change it to where the pumps comes on at 2.3 bars and runs off at 2.6 bars....or change it where the pump turns on at 1.9 bars and turns off at 3.0 bars.

 

Both screws are probably secured with Loctite and it's important to use a properly sized screw driver to avoid stripping the screw heads.   

 

But the most important thing to do is only play around with the adjustments if you know what you are doing and have a pressure gauge.

 

 

[lopburi3]

4 minutes ago, Pib said:

But the most important thing to do is only play around with the adjustments if you know what you are doing and have a pressure gauge.

And you are really, really sure the hot electric feed is off.  

[aoneseller]

Duly noted.

Anyway, pump ok now, but in the future if fail happens I will use gauge.

I don't have water pressure gauge, but I do have tire gauge. Is it possible to hook up the tire gauge on a faucet? 

[lopburi3]

Yes but would require a bit of Rube Goldberg.