Build of rubbish on Koh Samui

[Samuiclaudia]

It appears that the "powers" on Koh Samui want to turn this beautiful island into a rubbish heap.    I am well aware of the problems of the defunct incinerator;  the lack of land to infill rubbish, etc., etc.  However, by removing the authorised "rubbish bins" around the Island is not going to help matters.  It will make things worse as is being shown today.  People have to dispose of their rubbish somehow and the lack of bins will not stop them.  Yesterday I drove alongside the ring road from Lamai to Nathon and there were piles of rubbish on the side regardless of whether there were bins or not.  Do the powers to be really believe that removing these bins will solve the problem?    Is this another caase of short term thinking?

[Samui Bodoh]

I thought that I would join you for a bit of a rant.

 

I first started visiting Koh Samui in the mid/late 90's, and at that time the garbage management system was great. Each soi had a wheelie bin or two at the corner where it met the main road, the wheelie bins all had lids, the area was kept clean, and everything was emptied regularly. In the case of longer sois, there were designated spots somewhere in the soi, or each person had to go to the main road. The system was efficient, regular, and well-managed.

 

Fast forward to today. My own particular circumstances just improved due to a large new hotel nearby, but as I drive about on the island I see more and more piles of garbage. Perhaps the old system only worked in lesser developed areas, but whatever the current plan is, it is not working. Further, there is the whole issue of the incinerator. I won't get too deep into a rant about that, but what happened to all the money allocated for waste management for the last several years? Finally, the dumps. They are ugly, environmental disasters.

 

What is the current government doing? The only information that I see is government officials making speeches telling Samui people to produce less garbage. Fine. What exactly is the local government doing? I genuinely couldn't tell you, but I suspect very little. 

 

Fix the bloody incinerator!!!

 

 

[drtreelove]

It's not a complete answer, but one factor in taking the load off garbage volume and landfill capacity, would be to reduce 'green waste' by following the example of Six Senses Samui:

 

 

[futsukayoi]

I wonder how many of these complainers :-

 

a) Actually pay to have their garbage picked up rather than dump somewhere (even if in another person's  bin) so that there are some funds to tackle the problem

Are willing to house bins on their property

 

[Samui Bodoh]

47 minutes ago, futsukayoi said:

I wonder how many of these complainers :-

 

a) Actually pay to have their garbage picked up rather than dump somewhere (even if in another person's  bin) so that there are some funds to tackle the problem

Are willing to house bins on their property

 

 

As "one of these complainers", I rent my house, but I assume that my landlord pay some sort of taxes. In response to your second question, no, I don't want a bin on the property. That is what public land is for.

 

I truly do not understand the purpose of your post.

 

It is the function of local government to manage waste removal and processing, yet the fact that they aren't really doing it seems not to concern you. Koh Samui has been without an incinerator for several years, and the garbage has been dumped untreated creating both a health and environmental crisis with no end in sight.

 

 

Respectfully, why don't you focus on the problem rather than whingeing about people who point out that there is a problem.

 

What is the matter with you?

 

[Tropicalevo]

What a naive response to serious questions.

 

First - if no one pays for garbage removal - why should it happen?

 

None of you whingers pay land tax, community tax, house tax etc etc. Neither do your landlords - most of whom do not pay the garbage tax either. Thais burn their rubbish - foreigners do not. You moan about the lack of bins but you glibly 'assume' that your landlord pays the tax. If he did - there would be a bin on his property. (Assume - makes an ASS out of U and ME.)

 

Your landlord does not have a problem with garbage - the problem is yours.

 

How many of you have been to the government office to find out what the problem really is? I have. It is lack of funds - because none of you (or your landlords) pay the tax (and it is too low anyway).

 

Again, a typical Not In My Backyard respose about a bin on your property. What happens in your home country?

 

No one wants a bin on their property because all of you free loaders would dump their garbage there. Public land is NOT for dumping garbage. It is for the enjoyment of the public.

[Tropicalevo]

and yes - I pay the tax for myself and for my customers. I have done for more than 12 years.

[Samui Bodoh]

First, kudos to you for paying the tax for yourself and your customers. I mean that sincerely.

 

You raise some good points;

 

"if no one pays for garbage removal - why should it happen?" I can't argue the point and won't even try. However, it is the function of the local government to assess and collect the taxes required. It is a problem, but lets put it where it belongs.

 

"None of you whingers pay land tax, community tax, house tax etc etc. Neither do your landlords" Again, you are correct, I don't pay those taxes BECAUSE I rent; it is the responsibility of the land-owner. And it is the responsibility of the local government to collect reasonable taxes from them.

 

"Thais burn their rubbish" Yes, many do. But many do not; I don't see the hotels all over the island creating huge burn piles on their front lawn. The idea that garbage is a 'foreigner' problem is not correct. It is a by product of mass tourism. And if you are going to have mass tourism, then you also need to deal with the effects of that. This is not happening.

 

"Your landlord does not have a problem with garbage - the problem is yours." Actually, we all do. It is an eyesore, it provides food for rats, stray dogs and cats, and is all-around unhealthy and bad. Again, it is not simply a foreigner problem.

 

"How many of you have been to the government office to find out what the problem really is? I have. It is lack of funds - because none of you (or your landlords) pay the tax (and it is too low anyway)." You are correct; I haven't been to the local government office. I would expect government officials to KNOW that there is a problem and deal with it. If we all can see the garbage piles, is it not a fair assumption that they can as well? And as for the tax/lack of funds, see above.

 

"No one wants a bin on their property because all of you free loaders would dump their garbage there. Public land is NOT for dumping garbage." Actually, I think this one is just a mis-understanding. I do have a small bin on the property where garbage is stored until transferred to the larger bin for removal. And public bins are generally put on public lands so that the trucks can access them easily.

 

I think we agree more than we disagree. I think we both want to see the garbage problem on Koh Samui dealt with. And you are probably correct that the sheer numbers of foreigners that come here are the root cause of the problem. However, it is the responsibility of the local government to deal with that.

 

Do you not agree?

 

 

 

[PoorSucker]

I also rent, once per month a government guy comes with my garbage bill. 

I pay him and get a receipt. 

 

Nothing to do with my landlord, my garbage, my bill. 

[Samui Bodoh]

22 minutes ago, PoorSucker said:

I also rent, once per month a government guy comes with my garbage bill. 

I pay him and get a receipt. 

 

Nothing to do with my landlord, my garbage, my bill. 

My rent is all-inclusive, so I don't pay it directly.

 

However, FWIW, I asked my landlady and she pays it for me each month.

 

Cheers

[khunPer]

It's no problem for anyone to have the garbage collected, even in tiny small sois, just one pay – it's for example 300 baht a month for a normal household, and garbage will be picked up, and soi cleaned if any dogs has been mingling with the garbage bags – a "Keep Samui clean" motorbike with sidecar will come to the small sois (a government lady, in my case)...

 

If a landlord pay for garbage collection, as part of an all inclusive fee – talk from experience, from when I rented, before I had my own house – the landlady (I also had a lady landlord) will normally have a bin, where you shall place your garbage in. If no bin is available, ask the landlord about it; otherwise garbage disposal is one's own responsibility.

 

I'm the first to admit that the garbage situation on the island could be a lot better – including the ever lasting incinerator soap – but the first step is, as earlier mentioned in the media by the authorities, that everybody pays a reasonable fee for collection.

[Samui Bodoh]

6 hours ago, khunPer said:

It's no problem for anyone to have the garbage collected, even in tiny small sois, just one pay – it's for example 300 baht a month for a normal household, and garbage will be picked up, and soi cleaned if any dogs has been mingling with the garbage bags – a "Keep Samui clean" motorbike with sidecar will come to the small sois (a government lady, in my case)...

 

If a landlord pay for garbage collection, as part of an all inclusive fee – talk from experience, from when I rented, before I had my own house – the landlady (I also had a lady landlord) will normally have a bin, where you shall place your garbage in. If no bin is available, ask the landlord about it; otherwise garbage disposal is one's own responsibility.

 

I'm the first to admit that the garbage situation on the island could be a lot better – including the ever lasting incinerator soap – but the first step is, as earlier mentioned in the media by the authorities, that everybody pays a reasonable fee for collection.

 

Morning KhunPer 

 

A reasonable and polite (!) voice as always.

 

I will set aside discussion regarding the incinerator for now, but I do believe that needs a very long and serious look.

 

I think we all agree that the island needs to dramatically improve its waste management, and that doing so requires funds. My view is that the current system of voluntary fees isn't working and a change is needed. I would argue that the number of people currently paying the fees is probably close to the limit of those who will pay; perhaps a few more people could be encouraged, but likely not enough to make a significant difference. Voluntary fees is a nice idea on paper, but as a practical policy matter it rarely works. And stopping collection of waste to force people to pay is not a good idea; it just exacerbates the waste problem without providing any solutions. If people don't have a bin of some sort, they will just chuck it on the side of the road. Sad, but true...

 

I think it is time that the island re-examines how it pays for waste management. I view the problem largely as stemming from mass tourism, so I would look there to collect funds. Perhaps a 10 baht a night tax on all hotel stays? 50 baht on all plane tickets? Special tax on all hotels with more than 10 rooms? A tax on tourist mini-vans? There are many, many possibilities.

 

Koh Samui generates a HUGE amount of money for the country, but pays the price with HUGE amounts of garbage generated on the island. It seems fair to me to use some of that tourist money to deal with tourist garbage. 

 

Cheers

 

 

[lucjoker]

most places it is 30 bht /month to take away your garbage ......

30 bht .....but too expensive for some cheap Charlies !

If they dont take the garbage away ......dump it on the parking of the Orbotor.(in the night when they sleep or are drunk.

[khunPer]

8 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

Morning KhunPer 

 

A reasonable and polite (!) voice as always.

 

I will set aside discussion regarding the incinerator for now, but I do believe that needs a very long and serious look.

 

I think we all agree that the island needs to dramatically improve its waste management, and that doing so requires funds. My view is that the current system of voluntary fees isn't working and a change is needed. I would argue that the number of people currently paying the fees is probably close to the limit of those who will pay; perhaps a few more people could be encouraged, but likely not enough to make a significant difference. Voluntary fees is a nice idea on paper, but as a practical policy matter it rarely works. And stopping collection of waste to force people to pay is not a good idea; it just exacerbates the waste problem without providing any solutions. If people don't have a bin of some sort, they will just chuck it on the side of the road. Sad, but true...

 

I think it is time that the island re-examines how it pays for waste management. I view the problem largely as stemming from mass tourism, so I would look there to collect funds. Perhaps a 10 baht a night tax on all hotel stays? 50 baht on all plane tickets? Special tax on all hotels with more than 10 rooms? A tax on tourist mini-vans? There are many, many possibilities.

 

Koh Samui generates a HUGE amount of money for the country, but pays the price with HUGE amounts of garbage generated on the island. It seems fair to me to use some of that tourist money to deal with tourist garbage. 

 

Cheers

Thanks for your reply and kind comment.

 

In a previous news article, some time ago, perhaps a year or two, the Samui administration said, that hotels paid a fixed fee of 2,000 baht a month. Many hotels had lots of garbage, and if they paid relative to their amount of garnage – or number of guests or rooms, as you suggest – it would help a lot. So yes, the authorities can do something if the wish to enforce the various resorts to pay, which will probably make a lot more sense, than trying to get paid from local Thais, of which those already paying think 30 baht a month is enough.

 

Compared to us paying 10 baht a day, which is not unreasonable – or anything more than 30 baht a month – it seem utterly wrong that a resort with hundreds of guests pays 2,000 baht only; i.e. some 65 baht a day for perhaps hundred or more guests.

 

I remember I posted in that thread about enforcing hotel tax of just one percent, which with for example 900,000 annual visitors staying three nights each, and spending a average of minimum 1,000 baht each person a night in accommodation (some, if not numerous, people pays 10,000 baht and way up a night for a double room, and stay here more than three nights) would give at least 25 million. baht extra income to the administration for infrastructure – up till two percent hotel tax is allow by a local community – and another poster kindly mentioned, that a one percent tax had already been enforced.

 

If hotel tax has not yet been raised to two percent, there's definitely a possibility there, being something like 10 baht or more per guest a day in average...

[Raybangkok]

On 9/29/2017 at 8:21 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

 

As "one of these complainers", I rent my house, but I assume that my landlord pay some sort of taxes. In response to your second question, no, I don't want a bin on the property. That is what public land is for.

 

I truly do not understand the purpose of your post.

 

It is the function of local government to manage waste removal and processing, yet the fact that they aren't really doing it seems not to concern you. Koh Samui has been without an incinerator for several years, and the garbage has been dumped untreated creating both a health and environmental crisis with no end in sight.

 

 

Respectfully, why don't you focus on the problem rather than whingeing about people who point out that there is a problem.

 

What is the matter with you?

 

What is the matter with you?  He asked a genuine question you make the rubbish but because you rent you want someone else to deal with it get real. The world over if you live in a house rented or owned you have a responsibility it,s obvious you are part of the problem.

[Samui Bodoh]

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

Thanks for your reply and kind comment.

 

In a previous news article, some time ago, perhaps a year or two, the Samui administration said, that hotels paid a fixed fee of 2,000 baht a month. Many hotels had lots of garbage, and if they paid relative to their amount of garnage – or number of guests or rooms, as you suggest – it would help a lot. So yes, the authorities can do something if the wish to enforce the various resorts to pay, which will probably make a lot more sense, than trying to get paid from local Thais, of which those already paying think 30 baht a month is enough.

 

Compared to us paying 10 baht a day, which is not unreasonable – or anything more than 30 baht a month – it seem utterly wrong that a resort with hundreds of guests pays 2,000 baht only; i.e. some 65 baht a day for perhaps hundred or more guests.

 

I remember I posted in that thread about enforcing hotel tax of just one percent, which with for example 900,000 annual visitors staying three nights each, and spending a average of minimum 1,000 baht each person a night in accommodation (some, if not numerous, people pays 10,000 baht and way up a night for a double room, and stay here more than three nights) would give at least 25 million. baht extra income to the administration for infrastructure – up till two percent hotel tax is allow by a local community – and another poster kindly mentioned, that a one percent tax had already been enforced.

 

If hotel tax has not yet been raised to two percent, there's definitely a possibility there, being something like 10 baht or more per guest a day in average...

I have wondered what the hotels pay, and while I am not surprised that they are underpaying, it does seem like they are underpaying a great deal. There is a new hotel near my house and I see a garbage truck go there every morning (literally! Every morning at around 5 AM) to make a pick up. If they are paying just 2,000/month, it is a sweetheart deal for them.

 

I would LOVE to see that tax levied on the island's visitors. We could see the clean up of the various dumps, fix the incinerator, repair the places that still flood during rainy season, etc. I truly don't understand why Koh Samui (and the other islands) haven't declared themselves 'national parks' or some other 'preserve' in order to add a tax (of some kind) on visitors. Logic says that when you have hundreds of thousands of visitors, there will be a need for on-going maintenance funding. 

 

I don't mind being an expat, but when there is an issue like this, I strongly wish I had a vote as I would have a few choice words for the Mayor and Councillors come election time...

 

PS Sorry all, but what is the difference between paying the garbage fee yourself and paying the garbage fee to your landlord/landlady as part of your rent? This seems a big deal, but I fail to understand why. It seems logical to me that the land owner would have responsibility for all fees and taxes paid to government for services, but... what gives? Anyone?

 

[shamrock09]

On 9/29/2017 at 10:52 AM, PoorSucker said:

I also rent, once per month a government guy comes with my garbage bill. 

I pay him and get a receipt. 

 

Nothing to do with my landlord, my garbage, my bill. 

Yes, in my old house in Bangrak, somebody did come around each month and ask for payment. I was more than happy to pay and receive a receipt. However, since I moved to another part of Bangrak nobody has been near me to request payment, which I would be delighted to give. Instead, there is a huge pile of rubbish accumulating outside the nearby 7/11 which is a garbage pick-up point. The far corner of the open land close to my house has now become a fly-tipping zone where household garbage and builders' rubbish grows by the day. I walk up the hill by the View on Soi 8 every day and am appalled at the ever-increasing amount of garden waste and other paraphernalia that is growing there. I have had a friend speak to the owner and he promises action but nothing seems to happen. Yes, this is a huge problem which is ruining this lovely island. I am happy to lend my support to help find a solution.

[farang62]

Close the island down, fix the problem and start over with "A Plan".

It is to late to "Fix it" now it has gone on to long!

 

Just think what we could accomplish if we had the time to Fix the <deleted>#k ups, roads, power, garbage, transportation, safety to name a few. Bring our island up to internationally accepted standards. (common sense, health and safety) it would be easy with out the interference of The government, The police, "tourists", touts, taxis, speeding vans. There would be no unemployment as everyone would work to put together, make a plan and than do the work.

 

But as I said it is to late now!

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎9‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 12:29 AM, khunPer said:

It's no problem for anyone to have the garbage collected, even in tiny small sois, just one pay – it's for example 300 baht a month for a normal household, and garbage will be picked up, and soi cleaned if any dogs has been mingling with the garbage bags – a "Keep Samui clean" motorbike with sidecar will come to the small sois (a government lady, in my case)...

 

If a landlord pay for garbage collection, as part of an all inclusive fee – talk from experience, from when I rented, before I had my own house – the landlady (I also had a lady landlord) will normally have a bin, where you shall place your garbage in. If no bin is available, ask the landlord about it; otherwise garbage disposal is one's own responsibility.

 

I'm the first to admit that the garbage situation on the island could be a lot better – including the ever lasting incinerator soap – but the first step is, as earlier mentioned in the media by the authorities, that everybody pays a reasonable fee for collection.

From what I have read here, the problem isn't that the rubbish isn't collected- it obviously is. The problem is that they have removed rubbish bins so people dump it and that collected rubbish isn't processed.

As a frequent visitor to Samui in the past, the biggest source of beach rubbish was dumping at sea. The hotels buried all the beach rubbish under the sand- they must have run out of undug beach space by now!

 

Anyway, it's all just part of a larger worldwide problem that is polluting the entire ocean.

Thailand could start by banning single use plastic bags and mandating a return fee of 10 baht to be added to all plastic containers. 90% of the problem would be solved overnight just by those 2 things.

I live by myself, yet I can fill a rubbish tin with the plastic wrapping from my food in 2 days. It's stupid and destructive to the ecosystem.

 

World wide, they need to replace Styrofoam with biodegradable cellulose.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎10‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 12:47 PM, farang62 said:

Close the island down, fix the problem and start over with "A Plan".

It is to late to "Fix it" now it has gone on to long!

 

Just think what we could accomplish if we had the time to Fix the <deleted>#k ups, roads, power, garbage, transportation, safety to name a few. Bring our island up to internationally accepted standards. (common sense, health and safety) it would be easy with out the interference of The government, The police, "tourists", touts, taxis, speeding vans. There would be no unemployment as everyone would work to put together, make a plan and than do the work.

 

But as I said it is to late now!

 

Reading this thread, it could have been written about Chiang Mai, or Pattaya, or Bkk or any Thai city/ town. It seems that Thailand has a systemic problem with local government not doing its job.

[khunPer]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

From what I have read here, the problem isn't that the rubbish isn't collected- it obviously is. The problem is that they have removed rubbish bins so people dump it and that collected rubbish isn't processed.

As a frequent visitor to Samui in the past, the biggest source of beach rubbish was dumping at sea. The hotels buried all the beach rubbish under the sand- they must have run out of undug beach space by now!

 

Anyway, it's all just part of a larger worldwide problem that is polluting the entire ocean.

Thailand could start by banning single use plastic bags and mandating a return fee of 10 baht to be added to all plastic containers. 90% of the problem would be solved overnight just by those 2 things.

I live by myself, yet I can fill a rubbish tin with the plastic wrapping from my food in 2 days. It's stupid and destructive to the ecosystem.

 

World wide, they need to replace Styrofoam with biodegradable cellulose.

 

Thanks for your comment.

 

The problem in the small sois is that you need to pay, to have the garbage collected – which in my opinion is fair enough – or yourself move your garbage to a main road, where the trucks collects it at night. The latter is a bad solution, as many just throws their garbage bags on the sidewalk – I have observed several farangs on motorbike coming with their plastic bag and make a long throw into a pile of rubbish, unfortunately not always hitting the intended rubbish pile – whilst some, probably lazy folks, just dump their stuff in the side of a soi, where nobody collects it.

 

If one care to sort plastic bottles, glass bottles and alu-cans in a separate clear plastic bag – together with other reusable or recirculate-able stuff – it would help a lot.

 

I also wondered about the habit of burying what the sea had flown in after the monsoon storm, but actually the stuff buried under the beach sand are mainly biodegradable, and disappears amazingly fast – often they burn if before burying it – plastic bottles and alu-cans are sorted out first, as they represent a value when resold.

 

However, I sincerely agree in taking more care about environment, especially with plastic and Styrofoam kind of material, but I believe in education and change of habits, rather than fees and fines. Unfortunately some tourists are among the worst to pollute the beaches with plastic bags, Styrofoam containers, plastic bottles, glass bottles and used diapers – talk from bad experience, living beachfront – whilst Thais are not very good in supplying garbage bins, which probably could solve some (if not most) of the pollution.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by khunPer

[farang62]

So nothing will be done!

 

[Coconut007]

On 9/30/2017 at 5:38 PM, Samui Bodoh said:

I would LOVE to see that tax levied on the island's visitors.

Are you so naive that you believe it would actually be used for waste management?

 

How the hundreds of thousands of visitors every year, massive hotels, taxi mafia etc in a country of cheap labor are not enough to get rid of garbage?

 

Profit maximization, that's all.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Coconut007

[Samui Bodoh]

15 hours ago, khunPer said:

Thanks for your comment.

 

The problem in the small sois is that you need to pay, to have the garbage collected – which in my opinion is fair enough – or yourself move your garbage to a main road, where the trucks collects it at night. The latter is a bad solution, as many just throws their garbage bags on the sidewalk – I have observed several farangs on motorbike coming with their plastic bag and make a long throw into a pile of rubbish, unfortunately not always hitting the intended rubbish pile – whilst some, probably lazy folks, just dump their stuff in the side of a soi, where nobody collects it.

 

If one care to sort plastic bottles, glass bottles and alu-cans in a separate clear plastic bag – together with other reusable or recirculate-able stuff – it would help a lot.

 

I also wondered about the habit of burying what the sea had flown in after the monsoon storm, but actually the stuff buried under the beach sand are mainly biodegradable, and disappears amazingly fast – often they burn if before burying it – plastic bottles and alu-cans are sorted out first, as they represent a value when resold.

 

However, I sincerely agree in taking more care about environment, especially with plastic and Styrofoam kind of material, but I believe in education and change of habits, rather than fees and fines. Unfortunately some tourists are among the worst to pollute the beaches with plastic bags, Styrofoam containers, plastic bottles, glass bottles and used diapers – talk from bad experience, living beachfront – whilst Thais are not very good in supplying garbage bins, which probably could solve some (if not most) of the pollution.

 

 

 

Let me (respectfully) disagree a bit...

 

I think the program of having people come to the soi to collect the garbage has seen its day; while it works very well for some, as an island-wide program I think it has failed. 

 

It is speculation on my part, but I think that the people collecting garbage in the sois were originally a "VIP" service for foreigners who didn't want to burn their garbage as Thais did. It may well have made sense when it was first implemented, but the situation on the island has changed from those days. Now, fewer and fewer Thais are burning their garbage (a good thing) and more and more are looking to bins, etc. as a means of disposal. And the service of having someone ride their bike to the soi to collect waste has not been able to keep up, thus people throwing waste on the side of the road in the soi or on the ring road. Further, the costs of having someone go into the soi to collect waste have not caught up, leading to people either not paying or just not using the service. Finally, it is an inefficient method of waste collection. The women (I have only seen women doing that job) have their salary, their health insurance and their pensions paid for, but the revenue doesn't seem to cover all the costs of serving everyone. The fee could be raised to cover costs, but as not everyone pays for the service at the moment, I doubt that raising the fee would see a new batch of enrollment. Overall, it seems to me to be an ineffective and uneconomic means of waste management.

 

To sum up, it is a program that services a small minority very well, while not servicing the island as a whole.

 

I am not an expert in waste management in any way, shape or form, but I would guess that a nodal system of larger garbage depots, strategically placed, where people could come and dispose of their waste would be a better, long-term solution. Hand in hand with a nodal system, a plan of public information needs to be implemented to enhance people's awareness of the problem and to encourage the use of the larger bins. I might get sued for saying this, but as 7-11 seems to place their stores near their customer base very effectively, why not put the large bins outside of every 7-11? 

 

Personalized garbage service may well have made sense 10-20 years ago, but it does not seem to be effective anymore. A re-think is required.

 

PS FIX THE DAMN INCINERATOR!

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by Samui Bodoh

[Tropicalevo]

On 30/09/2017 at 7:26 PM, shamrock09 said:

Yes, in my old house in Bangrak, somebody did come around each month and ask for payment. I was more than happy to pay and receive a receipt. However, since I moved to another part of Bangrak nobody has been near me to request payment, which I would be delighted to give. Instead, there is a huge pile of rubbish accumulating outside the nearby 7/11 which is a garbage pick-up point. The far corner of the open land close to my house has now become a fly-tipping zone where household garbage and builders' rubbish grows by the day. I walk up the hill by the View on Soi 8 every day and am appalled at the ever-increasing amount of garden waste and other paraphernalia that is growing there. I have had a friend speak to the owner and he promises action but nothing seems to happen. Yes, this is a huge problem which is ruining this lovely island. I am happy to lend my support to help find a solution.

Well done on previously paying the bill.

Unfortunately the garbage collection system is tied to the property not to the person.

You probably had a collector at the old house because of a previous tennant (or the landlord) having registered it.

How do the government people know where you have moved to?

You have to register your new address at the government office in Nathon. A pain - but that is how it works.

The relevant government office is in the left hand building (looking from the road) at the new site just south of Nathon.

[Tropicalevo]

On 30/09/2017 at 5:38 PM, Samui Bodoh said:

I have wondered what the hotels pay, and while I am not surprised that they are underpaying, it does seem like they are underpaying a great deal. There is a new hotel near my house and I see a garbage truck go there every morning (literally! Every morning at around 5 AM) to make a pick up. If they are paying just 2,000/month, it is a sweetheart deal for them.

 

I would LOVE to see that tax levied on the island's visitors. We could see the clean up of the various dumps, fix the incinerator, repair the places that still flood during rainy season, etc. I truly don't understand why Koh Samui (and the other islands) haven't declared themselves 'national parks' or some other 'preserve' in order to add a tax (of some kind) on visitors. Logic says that when you have hundreds of thousands of visitors, there will be a need for on-going maintenance funding. 

 

I don't mind being an expat, but when there is an issue like this, I strongly wish I had a vote as I would have a few choice words for the Mayor and Councillors come election time...

 

PS Sorry all, but what is the difference between paying the garbage fee yourself and paying the garbage fee to your landlord/landlady as part of your rent? This seems a big deal, but I fail to understand why. It seems logical to me that the land owner would have responsibility for all fees and taxes paid to government for services, but... what gives? Anyone?

 

If the fee is included in your rent, ask the landlord to show you the monthly receipts. If he is Thai - 30 baht per house. Foreigners - 100 baht per house

 

I am not saying that the landlord would charge you but not pass on the monies to the government, but it is a possibility.

 

Many of the house owners near where I live rent out their properties,  but they do not pay the fees. I know this because the collector (and the inspector) have both asked me 'how do the other owners here get rid of their garbage? You are the only one paying.' There are over one hundred houses in my immediate area.

Some of the houses cost more than 100 million baht to build and when I ask the owners where they put the garbage - they smile and say that they get their staff to dump it. How sad is that?

This is one of the main reasons why there is no budget for fixing the problem and also why the bins are being removed. More than one hundred houses dumping garbage in just a small part of Samui.

[Tropicalevo]

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

Let me (respectfully) disagree a bit...

 

I think the program of having people come to the soi to collect the garbage has seen its day; while it works very well for some, as an island-wide program I think it has failed. 

 

It is speculation on my part, but I think that the people collecting garbage in the sois were originally a "VIP" service for foreigners who didn't want to burn their garbage as Thais did. It may well have made sense when it was first implemented, but the situation on the island has changed from those days. Now, fewer and fewer Thais are burning their garbage (a good thing) and more and more are looking to bins, etc. as a means of disposal. And the service of having someone ride their bike to the soi to collect waste has not been able to keep up, thus people throwing waste on the side of the road in the soi or on the ring road. Further, the costs of having someone go into the soi to collect waste have not caught up, leading to people either not paying or just not using the service. Finally, it is an inefficient method of waste collection. The women (I have only seen women doing that job) have their salary, their health insurance and their pensions paid for, but the revenue doesn't seem to cover all the costs of serving everyone. The fee could be raised to cover costs, but as not everyone pays for the service at the moment, I doubt that raising the fee would see a new batch of enrollment. Overall, it seems to me to be an ineffective and uneconomic means of waste management.

 

To sum up, it is a program that services a small minority very well, while not servicing the island as a whole.

 

I am not an expert in waste management in any way, shape or form, but I would guess that a nodal system of larger garbage depots, strategically placed, where people could come and dispose of their waste would be a better, long-term solution. Hand in hand with a nodal system, a plan of public information needs to be implemented to enhance people's awareness of the problem and to encourage the use of the larger bins. I might get sued for saying this, but as 7-11 seems to place their stores near their customer base very effectively, why not put the large bins outside of every 7-11? 

 

Personalized garbage service may well have made sense 10-20 years ago, but it does not seem to be effective anymore. A re-think is required.

 

PS FIX THE DAMN INCINERATOR!

 

 

 

Your comments are very close to the likely truth, but I think that there is one factor missing. Yes - there were private contractors. Some worked independantly and some worked for the government.

 

All garbage collecting was originally sub-contracted out to these smaller private companies. They had smaller trucks which worked for the smaller Sois, but there was no system for the government to know how much money the sub-contractors were to pay them. The subbies could collect from lots of houses - but only pay the government a smaller amount. This happened to me. The collector was giving me a receipt for the full amount that I paid, but submitting a lower value receipt to the government. The two did not match -  hence the inspector.

 

A few years back the government cancelled the contracts and bought their own (larger) garbage trucks. So, no more collecting from small Sois.

 

The government do however still shoot themselves in the foot. (As well as other places probably.) I have been to the government offices a couple of times now to increase the number of registered houses that I Iook after. I want to pay them more money! I was asked where do I put my garbage - and when I told them, the reply was 'You must not put your garbage in other people's collecting areas.' (I live on a small Soi.) We will send a driver to look at where you live and we will give you your own designated collection point.

 

Two more trips to the office and some years later and I am still waiting to hear where my designated collection point is.

[Samui Bodoh]

38 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

Many of the house owners near where I live rent out their properties,  but they do not pay the fees. I know this because the collector (and the inspector) have both asked me 'how do the other owners here get rid of their garbage? You are the only one paying.' There are over one hundred houses in my immediate area.

Some of the houses cost more than 100 million baht to build and when I ask the owners where they put the garbage - they smile and say that they get their staff to dump it. How sad is that?

This is one of the main reasons why there is no budget for fixing the problem and also why the bins are being removed. More than one hundred houses dumping garbage in just a small part of Samui.

"How sad is that?" I very much agree that it is sad as hell.

 

I think we both would like to see the garbage situation on Koh Samui get better, a lot better! However, we disagree as to the means/methods.

 

A hundred houses, some of which costing over a 100 million Baht and none paying the garbage fee? This, to me, is crystal clear evidence that the system is not working and needs to be replaced. If people representing that amount of wealth will not pay, is there any reason to expect someone earning 300-400 Baht a day to pay up? To me, no.

 

In one of your previous posts, you mentioned that there aren't annual taxes/fees/dues that must be paid, so there is not an opportunity to collect mandatory taxes for garbage (I hope I have represented what you said accurately). Assuming that is the case (and I do), that leaves the voluntary option. And, I simply do not believe that payment of taxes voluntarily works, or will ever work. Ain't gonna happen!

 

I feel a bit sad about that. I like the idea of waste collection going into the sois and dealing with the problem. Further, I see the women every morning at 5-6 AM in Bang Po as they start their working day; I would like them to hang on to their jobs, unpleasant as they are.

 

BUT, I guess that I see this a bit differently. Ever since this thread has been running, I have undertaken a small experiment. I have traveled in Bang Po, Mae Nam, Bophut, Bang Rak and Cheweng as part of daily life, and I have kept my eyes open. I have seen (now that I have been really looking) 50+ garbage piles on/near the main road, and I doubt if a single one has been cleaned since I saw them. True, this is in no way a scientific test, but give yourself a week and try it out; the results were ugly. 

 

And, I do not see the trend getting better.

 

If the voluntary system of fees can work, great!

 

If the voluntary system of fees doesn't work (and I don't think it does), then it is time for a change.

 

Cheers

 

PS Fix the damn incinerator!

 

[kwilco]

Garbage removal is actually only a small part of the problem, but it does show the "out of sight, out of mind" attitude that has allowed the dreadful garbage situation on Samui to develop to crisis point.

 

Quite apart from collection of garbage from private homes and small businesses the real problems come with the islands almost complete inability to deal with the garbage they have collected.

 

As I understand they now intend to ship the garbage to the mainland...... that is simply passing the buck and a very costly buck too.

 

I'd say its quite clear that the problem needs to be dealt with by the local authorities in a way that is green and comp[liments the nature of tourism on the island.

Edited August 20, 2018 by kwilco