Thailand To Limit Foreign Stake In Firms To 50 Per Cent

[ThaiGoon]

I see Vietnam is joining the World Trade Organization and so will be further opening itself up to foreign investment. Rather good timing for the people who leave Thaland, I would think.

The intention of the law to prevent foreigners owning more than 50%, while allowing them to retain effective legal control through voting rights, was an acceptable compromise to make good a bad protectionist idea. The govt is now removing that compromise for some classes of companies. As someone said, while the small number of list companies will still be OK, I imagine there would be a very much larger of companies who went the different "Thai" route who will be the ones now affected.

BTW, did I really see somewhere way back up on this thread that "hairdressing' was a listed profession closed to foreigners? So is hairdressing a matter of naitonal security? Or is it supposed to be related to "Thai culture"? All those millions of hairdressers in other countries around the world might find that idea a bit surprising.

That should be right. Hairdressing, for some reasons, has always been reserved only for Thai nationals. It's pretty weird and quite comical really...and I'm Thai.

[ThaiGoon]

"Personally, I think they're genuinely creating clarification while leaving plenty of room for manoeuvre

"

Are you for real?

Clarification while leaving room to do what they want later?

Its a vindictive move against Thaksin because they can not pin anything else on him. Thailand is looking like what it is - 3rd world kleptocracy with not much going for it except golf and sex industry as it was once pointed out as its only competative advantage.

I know you have to push your business and spin what you like with your FUD but pleaee do not take this board for idiots.

That statement might be true among some pompous farangs whose only experiences in Thailand (unfortunately) have been in those areas, but surprise surprise, the two biggest industries in Thailand, in fact, are electronics and automobiles. The annual income from these two industries far surpasses that of rice export.....and golf and sex industry.

[ThaiGoon]

Prakanong, Thailand is also the world's second-largest tungsten producer and third-largest tin producer....... So yeah, not much going for it except golf and sex industry.

[Plus]

Things are getting a bit more confusing. Media report that only companies on Annex 1 will be seriously affected, and they constitute less than 5% of total. Posters here claim otherwise.

Who to believe?

People are crying over restaurants and bars - are they affected in any significant way?

Changes apply only to certain industries that on paper have always been off limits. How many foreign companies use nominees to control national TV channels, for example? Temasek is the only one. Does ANY country in the region allow foreigners to circumvent the law to gain control of national TV channels? Try that in Vietnam.

They also said that they will allow exceptions on case by case basis - for companies like Dtac.

[Mid]

In fact, no change, if you have a restaurant or other type of business on list 3. If you are not an Amity treaty company or have a Alien Business License, you still can have 99% of the voting rights even if you have 49% of the shares with preferred shares.

Where the changes are with telecommunications companies, mining companies or with property developer companies. You now can only have 49.999% of the shares and 49.999 % of the voting rights if the company is on the List 1 and List 2.

For most small companies, no change.

I'm rather disappointed by your first reaction...

Question : do you know one company that operates a restaurant for instance, and that is classified as "foreign" by FBA and who have successfully asked a licence or special authorization as stated in FBA for List 3 activities ?

We need to stop playing silly games.

All the foreigners who have created food/beverage businesses for instance went for the easiest way : being a "thai" company, AKA owning officially less than majority of shares and using dual shares system or nominees to keep control.

To reformulate : I believe foreigners are not concerned by the companies that are already within the field of FBA. Because actually... there are none.

FBA was right from the begining a total dead law. The best proof : the content of list 3 has never evolved. Because nobody cares, all investors simply bypassed the FBA, by being "thai" or by using special systems like BOI.

If you put aside BOI and Amity Threaty... we can say (don't laugh) that there are no "foreign" companies in Thailand, as they are described in FBA old version... Must be shocking for our thai friends, huh ? !

Now, the gvt after 30 years, aknowledge that everybody is cheating. It's not a few : it's everybody, from Temasek at the top, to Lotus, Carrefour, to the small LTD that operate a bar, a travel agency, a restaurant whatever.

So they change the key criteria that make a company "thai" or "foreign".

So you shouldn't say "nothing change". Because by saying that, you simply continue the hypocrite game.

How will react a genuine foreign investor who wants to create a business in Thailand ? If he can't go BOI, if being "thai" is now impossible, and if because of FBA he can't choose his activity, and can't keep the control of his company... do you believe that he will go for it ?

So I repeat, the "nothing change" posture looks to me very... limited. On the contrary, as I said before, it's bigger than the pandora box. Unless of course, the gvt make another... U turn. It has already happened yesterday (exemption of telecom companies).

The best analysis to this date, is coming from a... Thai. Published this morning in Bangkok Post. Read it and you will understand the real issue.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/11Jan2007_news17.php

finally .................................

this is the reality for the average ' foreign investor '

[d44]

Things are getting a bit more confusing. Media report that only companies on Annex 1 will be seriously affected, and they constitute less than 5% of total. Posters here claim otherwise.

Who to believe?

Lists 1,2, and 3 apply to 'foreign' companies.

Today(!), if you have less than 50% of shares, the company is Thai and lists do not apply. Most companies are setup like this.

Now it get's interesting. Today, if the company is foreign and operates business on any of the lists, you need an ABL. After this law becomes effective existing list 3 companies that are Thai today but deemed foreign then, are said to be grandfathered-in, i.e.: a free ABL, right?

And once you do have that ABL, why not do away with the nominees and have a 100% share?

Just a thought.

[Jai Dee]

Amendment to have short-term impact on foreign business

BANGKOK, Jan 11 (TNA) – Deputy Prime Minister and Industry Minister Kosit Panpiemrat affirmed an amendment to the Foreign Business Act is meant to ensure clarity of its definition and believed it would have a short-term impact on foreign business.

The Cabinet on Tuesday approved in principle amendments to the 1999 Foreign Business Act that limit foreign investors to holding no more than 50 per cent of the shares or voting rights in Thai companies.

Mr.Kosit said the proposed amendment is part of the government’s efforts to define a principle for engagement in foreign business clearly, which should produce a good result.

Most industries granted investment promotions by the Board of Investment would not be affected by the amend Act.

Finance Minister Pridiyathorn Devakula also sought to ease investor concerns about the FBA reforms, saying that authorities would be flexible in applying the planned law and insist that it was not meant to be an obstacle to foreign investment.

Kosit said the government had given significance to ways to put the Act into practice. It would attempt to give foreign investors in Thailand proper understanding and work together with them more closely on the

implementation of the amendment.

He said he believed the amendment would have a short-term impact on a particular number of companies only.

The government would try to clear their doubts over details of the amendment and heed their proposals, he said, adding that there is still enough time to deliberate their opinions before the amendment would be finalised by the Council of State.

“The government still has time to heed opinions of foreign investors so that they can be brought for consideration along with legal perspectives and other non-legal aspects.

“Freedom in Thailand is second to none. We are ready to heed any opinions to ensure clarity of the Act,” he said.

Source: TNA - 11 January 2007

[Prakanong]

eeeh bah gum - the CIA world factbook is amazing

Its still a 3rd world kleptocracy though

Corruption is rife

Rule of law is a lottery

Education system is a mess - the best go overseas

Here is one

Name a Thai nobel prize winner

Name a Thai who has made a breakthrough in medicine, science, engineering etc

[cclub75]

Lists 1,2, and 3 apply to 'foreign' companies.

Today(!), if you have less than 50% of shares, the company is Thai and lists do not apply. Most companies are setup like this.

Now it get's interesting. Today, if the company is foreign and operates business on any of the lists, you need an ABL. After this law becomes effective existing list 3 companies that are Thai today but deemed foreign then, are said to be grandfathered-in, i.e.: a free ABL, right?

And once you do have that ABL, why not do away with the nominees and have a 100% share?

Just a thought.

An interesting one...

However : once you have reported to authorities... that actually you have indeed bypassed the spirit of the law at the best (dual share system) or violated the law (nominees, or prohibited activity), and regarding the ability of thai authorities to make U, X or Z-turn... the risk is huge.

You will be on a list (not the 1, 2 or 3 )

You will be on the black list.

Today, they say "grand fathered". But tomorrow ? After another coup ? With another government ?

That's the trick : thai authorities assume (they are right) that most of "thai" companies with some shares (less than 49,99 %) owned by foreigners... are more or less cheating. But very difficult to prove it (if you put aside the too well known companies, for instance those listed on SET).

With the "new FBA", they ask people to come forward. Clever. But I seriously doubt that it will work.

I should add, and repeat, FBA regime is not entrepreuneur friendly. It's a bureaucratic monster.

http://www.dbd.go.th/eng/law/fba_e1999.phtml

Bottom line : what do you want to own or put your money into ?

-A regular thai company, that operates within the thai common law

-or a "foreign" company under a specific framework... ?

If you are a wise man, well none of those. But that's another story.

Edited January 11, 2007 by cclub75

[bkkandrew]

From the Nation:

BURNING ISSUE

unfriendly to foreign investors? look around a bit

But timing of business law changes could have been better

If you think that Thai foreign business law is unfriendly to foreign investors, try Venezuela - or Japan.

This week, while the Cabinet was approving draft amendments to the Foreign Business Act, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez was proposing to nationalise his country's energy and telecommunications sectors.

And in Japan, Citigroup has moved to sharply downsize its consumer-finance operations in response to stricter laws. The move was announced this week after Japan's parliament passed laws to place limits on rates and cap loans. Foreign companies will have to adjust to comply with the rules.

Jeerawat Na Thalang

The Nation

Well, if the junta are trying to take some cold comfort by events in Japan and Venezuala, consider:

Japan is the second biggest economy in the World and can really do what it likes. Venezuala is currently controlled by a goon, who has has decided to fritter away his country's lottery win (oil price increases), a decision that will be rued when the oil price drops and/or their oil runs out...

Thailand has neither a globalally influential economy, nor a lottery win of oil. Oh, and in case people on this board believe Thai Goon's assertion that tungston or tin production will propel Thailand towards world domination, consider that tungston is being dropped globally in its primary use as part of the effort to combat global warming and tin has largely is being replaced by aluminium in its primary market...

Edited January 11, 2007 by bkkandrew

[Bruce1]

The answer may be to seek world domination of hairdressing!

[Sunbelt Asia]

So you shouldn't say "nothing change". Because by saying that, you simply continue the hypocrite game.

How will react a genuine foreign investor who wants to create a business in Thailand ? If he can't go BOI, if being "thai" is now impossible, and if because of FBA he can't choose his activity, and can't keep the control of his company... do you believe that he will go for it ?

What I stated was nothing changes for existing list 3 businesses which are restaurants, hotels, service companies, etc.

The business which Thai national are not yet ready to complete with foreigners:

(1) Rice milling and flour production from rice and farm produce

(2) Fishery, specifically marine animal culture.

(3) Forestry from forestation.

(4) Production of plywood, veneer board, chipboard or hardboard.

(5) Production of lime.

(6) Accounting service business.

(7) Legal service business.

(8) Architecture service business.

(9) Engineering service business.

(10) Construction, except for:

(a) Construction rendering basic services to the public in public utilities or transport requiring special tools, machinery, technology or construction expertise having the foreigners' minimum capital of 500 million Baht or more.

( Other categories of construction as prescribed by the ministerial regulations.

(11) Broker or agent business, except:

(a) Being broken or agent for underwriting securities or services connected with future trading of commodities of financing instruments or securities.

( Being broker or agent for trading or procuring goods or services necessary for production or rendering services amongst affiliated enterprises.

© Being broker or agent for trading, purchasing or distributing or seeking both domestic and foreign markets for selling domestically manufactured or imported goods in the manner of international business operations having the foreigners' minimum capital 100 million Baht or more.

(d) Being broker or agent of other category as prescribed by the ministerial regulations.

(12) Auction, except:

(a) Auction in the manner of international bidding not being the auction of antiques, historical artifacts or art objects which are Thai works of arts, handicraft or antiques or having the historical value.

( Other categories of auction as prescribed by the ministerial regulations.

(13) Internal trade connected with native products or produce not yet prohibited by law.

(14) Retailing all categories of goods having the total minimum capital less than 100 million Baht or having the minimum capital of each shop less than 20 million Baht.

(15) Wholesaling all categories of goods having minimum capital of each shop less than million Bath.

(16) Advertising business.

(17) Hotel business, except for hotel management service

(18) Guided tour.

(19) Selling food or beverages.

(20) Plan cultivation and propagation business.

(21) Other categories of service business except that prescribed in the ministerial regulations

This is many of the small companies controlled by foreigners. They all will be grandfathered.

As stated their are changes for list 1 and 2.

The businesses not permitted for aliens to operate due to special reasons:

(1) Newspaper business, radio broadcasting or television station business

(2) Rice farming, farming or gardening.

(3) Animal farming

(4) Forestry and wood fabrication from natural forest

(5) Fishery for marine animals in Thai waters and within Thailand specific economic zones.

(6) Extraction of Thai herbs.

(7) Trading and auctioning Thai antiques or national historical objects.

(8) Making or casting Buddha images and monk alms bowls.

(9) Land trading

LIST TWO

The businesses related to the national safety or security or affecting arts and culture, tradition, folk handicraft or natural resource and environment.

Group 1: The businesses related to the national safety or security

(1) Production, selling, repairing and maintenance of:

(a) firearms, ammunition, gun powder, explosives.

( Accessories of firearms, ammunition, and explosive

© Armaments, ships, air-crafts or military vehicles.

(d) Equipment or components, all categories of war materials.

(2) Domestic land, waterway or air transportation, including domestic airline business.

Group 2 : The businesses affecting arts and culture, traditional and folk handicraft:

(1) Trading antiques or art objects being Thai arts and handicraft.

(2) Production of carved wood.

(3) Silkworm farming, production of Thai silk yarn, weaving Thai silk or Thai silk pattern printing.

(4) Production of Thai musical instruments.

(5) Production of goldware, silverware, nielloware, bronzeware or lacquerware.

(6) Production of crockery of Thai arts and culture.

Group 3: The businesses affecting natural resources or environment:

(1) Manufacturing sugar from sugarcane;

(2) Salt farming, including underground salt;

(3) Rock salt mining;

(4) Mining, including rock blasting or crushing;

(5) Wood fabrication for furniture and utensil production

How many foreigners are involved with these type of companies? If they are, indeed they need to restructure if they have more voting rights.

Per an article in the Bangkok Post today.

M.R. Pridiyathorn said reports that up to 40,000 foreign firms would be affected by the FBA changes were overblown.

''In reality, only 2,428 companies will potentially be affected. And of these firms, many are exempt due to Board of Investment privileges or because they operate under the [uS-Thai] Treaty of Amity,'' he said. ''Overall, only 1,337 companies are expected to have to restructure, with only 15 being companies listed on the Stock Exchange of Thailand.''

You wrote as well..

So I repeat, the "nothing change" posture looks to me very... limited. On the contrary, as I said before, it's bigger than the pandora box. Unless of course, the gvt make another... U turn. It has already happened yesterday (exemption of telecom companies)

He misspoke as you can see telecom is not on List one or two. Hence telecom is grandfathered ( exempt).

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[bkkandrew]

The answer may be to seek world domination of hairdressing!

[konangrit]

It would seem that foreign investors have been reassured that this is all a storm in a teacup.

Stock Exchange rebounds 2.5 per cent

(dpa) - Thailand's stock market rose 2.5 per cent Thursday on the return of foreign buyers who had been scared away by bombs in Bangkok and changes to investment laws, brokers said.

The Stock Exchange of Thailand (SET) index ended at 637.63, up 15.36 points.

"Foreign investors came back to the market today, buying mostly bank and energy stocks, because Thailand's blue chips had lost a lot of value over the past two weeks," said Mongkol Phuangpatra, a broker at Atkinson Securities.

Continued:

Bangkok Post

Edited January 11, 2007 by konangrit

[Erwin1011]

It would seem that foreign investors have been reassured that this is all a storm in a teacup.

Stock Exchange rebounds 2.5 per cent

(dpa) - Thailand's stock market rose 2.5 per cent Thursday on the return of foreign buyers who had been scared away by bombs in Bangkok and changes to investment laws, brokers said.

The Stock Exchange of Thailand (SET) index ended at 637.63, up 15.36 points.

"Foreign investors came back to the market today, buying mostly bank and energy stocks, because Thailand's blue chips had lost a lot of value over the past two weeks," said Mongkol Phuangpatra, a broker at Atkinson Securities.

Continued:

Bangkok Post

But if you looked carefully you would see that foreigners are net sellers for 1404 Million and individual thais net buyers for 1282 Million, Institutionals net buy 122 million.

Looks to me that the foreign investor is not convinced.

[Steely Dan]

I see Vietnam is joining the World Trade Organization and so will be further opening itself up to foreign investment. Rather good timing for the people who leave Thaland, I would think.

The intention of the law to prevent foreigners owning more than 50%, while allowing them to retain effective legal control through voting rights, was an acceptable compromise to make good a bad protectionist idea. The govt is now removing that compromise for some classes of companies. As someone said, while the small number of list companies will still be OK, I imagine there would be a very much larger of companies who went the different "Thai" route who will be the ones now affected.

BTW, did I really see somewhere way back up on this thread that "hairdressing' was a listed profession closed to foreigners? So is hairdressing a matter of naitonal security? Or is it supposed to be related to "Thai culture"? All those millions of hairdressers in other countries around the world might find that idea a bit surprising.

Does that mean I'm not allowed to own a clip joint? I'm marrying my girlfriend in a month and it has been discreetly mentioned to me that the dowry can remain offshore, a case of no Baht please we're Thai.

[Dupont]

"Personally, I think they're genuinely creating clarification while leaving plenty of room for manoeuvre

"

Are you for real?

Clarification while leaving room to do what they want later?

Its a vindictive move against Thaksin because they can not pin anything else on him. Thailand is looking like what it is - 3rd world kleptocracy with not much going for it except golf and sex industry as it was once pointed out as its only competative advantage.

I know you have to push your business and spin what you like with your FUD but pleaee do not take this board for idiots.

That statement might be true among some pompous farangs whose only experiences in Thailand (unfortunately) have been in those areas, but surprise surprise, the two biggest industries in Thailand, in fact, are electronics and automobiles. The annual income from these two industries far surpasses that of rice export.....and golf and sex industry.

And you my friend have overlooked that the sex industry and golf play a part in the decision making process when it comes to locating here or expanding. Like it or not, its true.

The sex industy is the golden egg, and the thais are throwing the eggs away and trying to get the goose to produce Som Tam instead when they try all this face saving morality stuff.

[LPCustom69]

Sunbelt

List 1 # 9 land trading. Does this only refer to land, or can they consider multiple condo, bought and sold in violation. I have a friend who does this, a lot. He has a thai company with himself controlling.

So you shouldn't say "nothing change". Because by saying that, you simply continue the hypocrite game.

How will react a genuine foreign investor who wants to create a business in Thailand ? If he can't go BOI, if being "thai" is now impossible, and if because of FBA he can't choose his activity, and can't keep the control of his company... do you believe that he will go for it ?

What I stated was nothing changes for existing list 3 businesses which are restaurants, hotels, service companies, etc.

The business which Thai national are not yet ready to complete with foreigners:

(1) Rice milling and flour production from rice and farm produce

(2) Fishery, specifically marine animal culture.

(3) Forestry from forestation.

(4) Production of plywood, veneer board, chipboard or hardboard.

(5) Production of lime.

(6) Accounting service business.

(7) Legal service business.

(8) Architecture service business.

(9) Engineering service business.

(10) Construction, except for:

(a) Construction rendering basic services to the public in public utilities or transport requiring special tools, machinery, technology or construction expertise having the foreigners' minimum capital of 500 million Baht or more.

( Other categories of construction as prescribed by the ministerial regulations.

(11) Broker or agent business, except:

(a) Being broken or agent for underwriting securities or services connected with future trading of commodities of financing instruments or securities.

( Being broker or agent for trading or procuring goods or services necessary for production or rendering services amongst affiliated enterprises.

© Being broker or agent for trading, purchasing or distributing or seeking both domestic and foreign markets for selling domestically manufactured or imported goods in the manner of international business operations having the foreigners' minimum capital 100 million Baht or more.

(d) Being broker or agent of other category as prescribed by the ministerial regulations.

(12) Auction, except:

(a) Auction in the manner of international bidding not being the auction of antiques, historical artifacts or art objects which are Thai works of arts, handicraft or antiques or having the historical value.

( Other categories of auction as prescribed by the ministerial regulations.

(13) Internal trade connected with native products or produce not yet prohibited by law.

(14) Retailing all categories of goods having the total minimum capital less than 100 million Baht or having the minimum capital of each shop less than 20 million Baht.

(15) Wholesaling all categories of goods having minimum capital of each shop less than million Bath.

(16) Advertising business.

(17) Hotel business, except for hotel management service

(18) Guided tour.

(19) Selling food or beverages.

(20) Plan cultivation and propagation business.

(21) Other categories of service business except that prescribed in the ministerial regulations

This is many of the small companies controlled by foreigners. They all will be grandfathered.

As stated their are changes for list 1 and 2.

The businesses not permitted for aliens to operate due to special reasons:

(1) Newspaper business, radio broadcasting or television station business

(2) Rice farming, farming or gardening.

(3) Animal farming

(4) Forestry and wood fabrication from natural forest

(5) Fishery for marine animals in Thai waters and within Thailand specific economic zones.

(6) Extraction of Thai herbs.

(7) Trading and auctioning Thai antiques or national historical objects.

(8) Making or casting Buddha images and monk alms bowls.

(9) Land trading

LIST TWO

The businesses related to the national safety or security or affecting arts and culture, tradition, folk handicraft or natural resource and environment.

Group 1: The businesses related to the national safety or security

(1) Production, selling, repairing and maintenance of:

(a) firearms, ammunition, gun powder, explosives.

( Accessories of firearms, ammunition, and explosive

© Armaments, ships, air-crafts or military vehicles.

(d) Equipment or components, all categories of war materials.

(2) Domestic land, waterway or air transportation, including domestic airline business.

Group 2 : The businesses affecting arts and culture, traditional and folk handicraft:

(1) Trading antiques or art objects being Thai arts and handicraft.

(2) Production of carved wood.

(3) Silkworm farming, production of Thai silk yarn, weaving Thai silk or Thai silk pattern printing.

(4) Production of Thai musical instruments.

(5) Production of goldware, silverware, nielloware, bronzeware or lacquerware.

(6) Production of crockery of Thai arts and culture.

Group 3: The businesses affecting natural resources or environment:

(1) Manufacturing sugar from sugarcane;

(2) Salt farming, including underground salt;

(3) Rock salt mining;

(4) Mining, including rock blasting or crushing;

(5) Wood fabrication for furniture and utensil production

How many foreigners are involved with these type of companies? If they are, indeed they need to restructure if they have more voting rights.

Per an article in the Bangkok Post today.

M.R. Pridiyathorn said reports that up to 40,000 foreign firms would be affected by the FBA changes were overblown.

''In reality, only 2,428 companies will potentially be affected. And of these firms, many are exempt due to Board of Investment privileges or because they operate under the [uS-Thai]Treaty of Amity,'' he said. ''Overall, only 1,337 companies are expected to have to restructure, with only 15 being companies listed on the Stock Exchange of Thailand.''

You wrote as well..

So I repeat, the "nothing change" posture looks to me very... limited. On the contrary, as I said before, it's bigger than the pandora box. Unless of course, the gvt make another... U turn. It has already happened yesterday (exemption of telecom companies)

He misspoke as you can see telecom is not on List one or two. Hence telecom is grandfathered ( exempt).

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[ThaiGoon]

Well, Dupont, as a Thai, I'm not that thrilled to see any pompous hypocritical farang sex addicts to come and settle in Thailand (mainly) because of golf and sex anyway. My country would be way way better off than what it is nowadays without you and your buddies. And I seriously doubt that the lack of pompous farang sex addicts coming and settling in my country would spell its doom. (Like I've pointed out, Thailand has a lot more going for it than just golf and sex industry.)

Like it or not, you and you buddies who have come to Thailand for golf and sex have caused more problems here than help. You and your buddies have helped the Thai sex industry thrive and become what it is. Isn't it funny how these same pompous farang sex addicts are mocking Thailand on this? I hope you are not getting a heartattack on this, but the fact of the matter is that the sooner Thailand could rid herself of pompous farang sex maniacs, the better she will be. We don't need more cockroaches in our country.

As for bkkandrew, no I wasn't making an assertion that tungsten and tin industry would propel Thailand into the world domination, I was just trying to point out to a pompous foreign cockroach that we have something else going on too. I have no clue where you got that idea from. I guess it must have been due to my poor Thaiglish that confused a well mannered and well educated Westerner like you.

Finally, prakanong, yes Thailand still falls short in several areas. But tell me which country doesn't? Even a superduper country like USA still shares several problems with Thailand. Are you telling me that corruption is not rampant among US politicians? Or that the US education system is not a mess? Do you know where American kids ranked with the rest of the world in math and science?

I'm not saying that Thailand is the best. I'm just saying it's not as bad as some foreign cockroaches have made it out to be (especially on this forum). I'm sorry if I have offended any decent farangs. There are plenty of you whose opinions of my country I value. My comment was only aimed at certain individuals. I was just tired of reading biased negative views of Thailand on here. And really really sick of holier-than-thou attitude shown by what I can only call, pompous foreign cockroahces.

[Jingthing]

ThaiGoon,

I think its great to hear from some Thai people on this forum. However, I am wondering if you realize how offensive and racist it sounds to call other human beings cockroaches? I mean, it is really a strong word. I suggest you try to be more polite, and use more diplomatic words like "undesirables" "aliens" and such because then you could actually have an interesting discussion here, rather than just pissing people off. I do admit there are lots of things said on the forum which are rude to Thais also, but really now, cockroaches?

Pompous is OK though!

Edited January 11, 2007 by Jingthing

[ThaiGoon]

Sorry, Jingthing, for the use of that word. But I really wanted to aim it at a few people. Anyway, good advice krab. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.

[johnnyk]

Thailand is also a huge exporter of seafood and seafood products as well as being the USA's major offshore supplier of chicken.

[Mai Krap]

The latest on the new laws, I think my first post on the subject was about right.

Thai about-turn on foreign ownership laws

Finance minister says telecom firms will be exempt from new laws

Straits Times

Thursday, January 11, 2007

By Leslie Lopez

Thailand reversed course on new rules governing foreign ownership in the country yesterday, just two weeks after another major policy reversal.

A day after accepting proposed limits on foreign ownership of Thai companies, the country's finance minister said yesterday that many sectors of the economy, including telecommunications companies currently operating in the country, would be exempt from the regulations.

The announcement confounded analysts, who had earlier assumed that telecommunications companies -- particularly Shin Corp -- were the actual target of the new rules.

Yesterday, Finance Minister Pridiyathorn Devakula, in a reversal from comments made on Tuesday, was quoted by wire agencies as saying that existing telecommunications companies would still be allowed to operate under foreign control, although new entrants would be subject to the proposed restrictions. He admitted that he had mistakenly included telecommunications companies the previous day.

He also said authorities would be flexible in applying the planned law, which still needs parliamentary approval.

The reversal yesterday was the second major turnaround in Thai policy in just over two weeks.

Late last month, the country imposed new capital controls requiring foreigners to deposit 30per cent of all the money they invest in the country in a non-interest bearing account at the central bank.

But the very next day, investments destined for the stock market were exempted after the stock market plunged by 14per cent.

The announcement on Tuesday of the plans to restrict foreign ownership of local companies sent Thai stocks to their lowest close in two years.

Under amendments to the country's Foreign Business Act, the government said overseas investors operating in Thailand would be given one year to disclose their exact holdings in their local operations and another two years to reduce their holdings to less than 50per cent.

Foreign companies which have voting rights exceeding 50per cent in their Thai operations would also have to surrender control of those privileges to their local partners.

The new rules have been widely perceived as a reaction to the controversial Shin Corp deal in January last year, in which then-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's family sold a majority stake in the telecommunications company to Temasek.

The sale drew widespread protests in Thailand because it placed strategic assets, including communications satellites, in the hands of foreigners, and because the deal was structured so that Mr Thaksin's family did not have to pay capital gains taxes on it.

Bangkok-based analysts said earlier that they saw the new amendments as being aimed at diluting Temasek's dominant position in Shin Corp.

Temasek and its Thai partners own a combined 96per cent of the conglomerate, which in turn controls Advanced Info Service, Thailand's biggest mobile phone company.

But the impact of yesterday's reversal on Shin Corp is unclear.

Temasek, which has repeatedly denied violating any Thai law in the purchase of Shin Corp, said yesterday that it was still awaiting details of the new amendments.

"We await details and we'll then consult our legal counsel on the implications of the recent changes," Temasek managing director for corporate affairs Myrna Thomas said in a brief telephone interview.

Earlier yesterday, before the apparent reversal, Thai policymakers scrambled to calm investors spooked by the new ownership rules.

The stock market recovered slightly as Mr Pridiyathorn stressed to investors that the new rules were not as sweeping as previously feared.

"There are altogether 2,428 foreign businesses (in Thailand). Of these, only 1,337 businesses will be affected," he said.

But investors were not soothed.

"In a situation like this, we need confidence-building news. This will erode the confidence further," Mr Peter Van Haren, chairman of the foreign chamber of commerce, said of the new rules.

He told the Associated Press that he did not find the minister's speech reassuring.

"Our stance is the same as before, that the amendment will make it more difficult for existing companies and future foreign investors in Thailand," he told AP.

Mr Van Haren said that, although there will be a grace period, the retroactive nature of the law makes it appear that "the playing rules are changed after the game has started".

"If you are going to change the ability to do business by changing business laws, that's fine. But if it's done arbitrarily, it increases the risk of doing business there," he said.

Date Posted: 1/11/2007

[Mai Krap]

Well, Dupont, as a Thai, I'm not that thrilled to see any pompous hypocritical farang sex addicts to come and settle in Thailand (mainly) because of golf and sex anyway. My country would be way way better off than what it is nowadays without you and your buddies. And I seriously doubt that the lack of pompous farang sex addicts coming and settling in my country would spell its doom. (Like I've pointed out, Thailand has a lot more going for it than just golf and sex industry.)

Like it or not, you and you buddies who have come to Thailand for golf and sex have caused more problems here than help. You and your buddies have helped the Thai sex industry thrive and become what it is. Isn't it funny how these same pompous farang sex addicts are mocking Thailand on this? I hope you are not getting a heartattack on this, but the fact of the matter is that the sooner Thailand could rid herself of pompous farang sex maniacs, the better she will be. We don't need more cockroaches in our country.

As for bkkandrew, no I wasn't making an assertion that tungsten and tin industry would propel Thailand into the world domination, I was just trying to point out to a pompous foreign cockroach that we have something else going on too. I have no clue where you got that idea from. I guess it must have been due to my poor Thaiglish that confused a well mannered and well educated Westerner like you.

Finally, prakanong, yes Thailand still falls short in several areas. But tell me which country doesn't? Even a superduper country like USA still shares several problems with Thailand. Are you telling me that corruption is not rampant among US politicians? Or that the US education system is not a mess? Do you know where American kids ranked with the rest of the world in math and science?

I'm not saying that Thailand is the best. I'm just saying it's not as bad as some foreign cockroaches have made it out to be (especially on this forum). I'm sorry if I have offended any decent farangs. There are plenty of you whose opinions of my country I value. My comment was only aimed at certain individuals. I was just tired of reading biased negative views of Thailand on here. And really really sick of holier-than-thou attitude shown by what I can only call, pompous foreign cockroahces.

You are one helll of a hypocrite, I would just think you are being sarcastic but I know your type. First thing is Im guessing youre not even living in Thailand but it doesnt matter. You are pointing the finger at about what maybe 10 percent of the guys going to whore houses in this country(10% farang versus 90% Thais) and making statements like westerners invented prostitution in Thailand or some crazy thing. You write like drunk Thai men are incapeable of having sleazy and paid for sex with hookers, evidently you dont know much about your own country so please get off your high horse bitchingg about westerners with bad habits when Thais have just as many if not more.

This is just the kind of thing that has me not bother posting on the forum much, totaly ignorant attitudes about in your face problems. I have traveled the world and seen many things and the first thing I look at is the health of a cultures animals namely domestic animals. When the local dogs are in piss poor health that speaks volumes about the people. The worst thing that ever happend in Thailand is Karaoke, You can blame the Japanese for that, Loud Speakers and PA systems run a close second. Turning down the volume, cleaning up the dogs, killing off some rats, and allowing people to walk on sidewalks would be a great start on making this a much better place to live for everyone.

[kmart]

"Hypocritical farang sex addicts" and "pompous cockroaches" will be my phrases for today. Thank you.

Btw, apart from your excellent English, your opinions sound like those of some shirtless, Beer Chang swilling labourer.

[Bruce1]

I admit to not really understanding this stuff, just being a poor dumb teacher and all that. But doesn't the following official comment miss the point:

The stock market recovered slightly as Mr Pridiyathorn stressed to investors that the new rules were not as sweeping as previously feared.

"There are altogether 2,428 foreign businesses (in Thailand). Of these, only 1,337 businesses will be affected," he said.

Isn't the real problem not with the companies which are already recognised as foreign, but with the many companies which didn't go that route of seeking special approval, but instead went the route of being nominally Thai, although actually controlled by foreigners thru voting rights? Will they now have to be counted as foreign because of the new rule on voting rights? Will they have to restructure to comply? Wouldn't there be a lot more of them than 2428 or 1337?

For instance, in yesterday's Post business section a property developer said every buyer of a unit in condos will have to have an individual company to own that unit, so that would be a huge number of companies alone.

If this is such a minor change, why are the business pages full of experts (many of them Thai), who know so much more about this than me, saying its bad?

No wonder I'm confused, if the experts are also confused.

[Dupont]

Sorry, Jingthing, for the use of that word. But I really wanted to aim it at a few people. Anyway, good advice krab. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.

I'd like to hear it from a Thai man that Thai men do not indulge in tis behaviour. All those bars and clubs in Thon Buri that foreigners are banned from!! Just who goes in there? All the karaoke bars and black bars that I have seen inside have absolutely no foreigners in them, the list are all in Thai.

Mia Noi is a thai invention and a Thai word.. It means prostitute, but you little men have to save face and call it a mistress. Really, 60 year old Thai men with Mia Nois at university and living in paid for appartments... You resemble many of the foreing cockroaches you so dispise.

Same same, not different, just hypocritical and face saving.

You lot invented it out here and now some of you have a little education, you try and deny what attracted most people here in the first place or what keeps them here.

I was referring to the business community not foreigners coming on holiday and having girlfriends.

You are a blinkered hypocrite and indeed a goon! I suspect you are not Thai, as you only seem to know about tourist areas.

[Steely Dan]

Thailand is also a huge exporter of seafood and seafood products as well as being the USA's major offshore supplier of chicken.

So they can swim.

[ThaiGoon]

"10% farang versus 90% Thais" <--- Hey, Mai Krap, that's a nice little stats you got there. I wonder where you got it from. You've done a thorough study on the subject or something? Or you just made it up out of thin air to suit your pathetic argument? Yes, Thais are responsible for what's going on in their sex industry. No one in the right mind or with half a brain can deny that. But the pathetic, desperate-for-sex farangs have helped it thrive too. And it's the truth. I never said that Thais weren't also responsible. I just said the cockroaches indeed have helped it thrive. (Sorry JingThing I couldn't resist.) Pattaya, Patpong, parts of Sukhumwit wouldn't have become what they are, had there not been sex tourists. These places were created solely to cater to the needs of you-know-what.

As for who's responsible more. Frankly I don't know. And I'm not gonna be stupid enough to make up the numbers without any bases. The truth of the matter is that, the sooner Thailand can rid herself of these hedious farangs, the better off she will be. And yes, thailand will be all right without them. We have mouch more going on than just sex industry (as Prakanong probably has already figured out by having educauetd himself a bit with CIA factbook.)

[ThaiGoon]

Sorry, Jingthing, for the use of that word. But I really wanted to aim it at a few people. Anyway, good advice krab. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.

I'd like to hear it from a Thai man that Thai men do not indulge in tis behaviour. All those bars and clubs in Thon Buri that foreigners are banned from!! Just who goes in there? All the karaoke bars and black bars that I have seen inside have absolutely no foreigners in them, the list are all in Thai.

Mia Noi is a thai invention and a Thai word.. It means prostitute, but you little men have to save face and call it a mistress. Really, 60 year old Thai men with Mia Nois at university and living in paid for appartments... You resemble many of the foreing cockroaches you so dispise.

Same same, not different, just hypocritical and face saving.

You lot invented it out here and now some of you have a little education, you try and deny what attracted most people here in the first place or what keeps them here.

I was referring to the business community not foreigners coming on holiday and having girlfriends.

You are a blinkered hypocrite and indeed a goon! I suspect you are not Thai, as you only seem to know about tourist areas.

And Dupont, I'm 100% Thai. And yes it's possible for Thais to know little bit of English. (I know it's the reason why you suspected I'm not Thai.) Don't be such a pompous Westerner. Try to interact more with middle-class Thais, and you will learn that, yes, they can converse in English a bit too.

I also think that it's totally not a very smart move to assume someone's education background, when you absolutely know nothing about that person. Anyway, all I'd say is that you are probably very likely to never would have been admitted to my alma maters.

And Mia Noi does mean a mistress by the way.