2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The vagaries and nuances of the justice system are well discussed on other threads. And that system applies to all. Rich, hiso elites, like the Shins and their opponents have to really step out of line to feel it's wrath.

You are naive if you believe any Shin government respects check and balances! PTP were trying to minimize the capability of any unless they could control the organization - NACC budget slashed for instance etc.

 

It's speculation but should a Shin administration ever be voted out, I doubt they would accept the decision with grace. Look how they reacted with law suits and smears flying around when the lost the BKK governor and Don Meuang elections.

 

You may see the Shins as some sort of bona fide social democrats trying to bring about wide social reforms to benefit all - I don't. I see a self serving gang who want to install a one family political hierarchy a la Hun Sen or Mugabe. Given the opportunity the Shins would dispense with elections just like the Junta,

Nowhere did I claim that the Shinawatra administration respected the system of check and balances, I said they were subjected to it. Best not discuss the NACC, they have beyond any doubt proven to be partial. The sooner this agency is replaced with an agency that does what it is supposed to be doing without any obvious bias, the better. 

 

By the way the NACC is not the only instrument of this, parliament and the senate (remember half appointed) play a more vital role. 

 

Whether or not the Shinawatras would have accepted the decision with grace, well they would have no choice in the matter. There is no option to not accept, but to date they have not had the displeasure of being voted out of office, not a single time. 

 

I don't care for or support the Shinawatras, but I do see that the opposition against them is using dirty tricks to gain the upper hand. And at no point in time were teh Shinawatras able to do what you claim they wanted to do. In fact, I have not seen a single thred of evidence this was their intention. 

 

In any case, it's useless to discuss something that never happened, let's focus on what did happen, and what is currently happening, maybe then you understand why a coup is never the answer. But alas, some people need more time to see the obvious. 

 

World's toughest Minister my ar5e ...

 

UK Labour Minister, John Prescott, deals with an egg-thrower...

15 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I don't think it was the TV show per se; rather that he choose to lie about it that cost him his position.

 

A little ironic when you consider subsequent events and Mr. White lies and the porkies that all sides spew out.

I don't remember he lost his position due to lying about it, considering it was a television show, that would be utterly stupid. 

living in LOS certainly corrupts the intelligence after a while it may also cause brain damage judging by the same old properganda coming from those who are unfortunately suffering from OCD of the Shins.

 

This man has morals and said no so should be praised for standing up against a crew who have no morals or feel guilt.

 

White lies my god here they just tell um at every opportunity and go on and tell them time and time again until the few start to believe everything they are fed.

 

Oh those dear old brummies.

Just now, sjaak327 said:

I don't remember his lost his position due to lying about it, considering it was a television show, that would be utterly stupid. 

 

AFAIR - the rule was something prohibiting a PM having another paid job or some such. His enemies used it to attack him and he denied having been paid. Then someone showed he was paid. So his lying about the payment became the issue. 

 

Stupid - hardly surprising here is it? They'll argue about the color of socks or something as trivial and blow it out of all proportions with draconian consequences when it suits. But totally ignore a major criminal event!

 

 

3 minutes ago, wakeupplease said:

living in LOS certainly corrupts the intelligence after a while it may also cause brain damage judging by the same old properganda coming from those who are unfortunately suffering from OCD of the Shins.

 

This man has morals and said no so should be praised for standing up against a crew who have no morals or feel guilt.

 

White lies my god here they just tell um at every opportunity and go on and tell them time and time again until the few start to believe everything they are fed.

 

Oh those dear old brummies.

 

Yes, your posts do show a serious loss of contact with reality. 

 

How well do you know this man, and his political career? He turns down an offer to join the "other side" and you pronounce it must mean he has morals. Loyalty to his side perhaps, but morals in a Thai politician. Now there is an oxymoron!

 

At least you recognize the propensity to lie - although saying it's fine to lie to the public and that lying is ethical was the opinion of only one party. The others seemingly no it's wrong but carry on anyway.

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Yes, your posts do show a serious loss of contact with reality. 

 

How well do you know this man, and his political career? He turns down an offer to join the "other side" and you pronounce it must mean he has morals. Loyalty to his side perhaps, but morals in a Thai politician. Now there is an oxymoron!

 

At least you recognize the propensity to lie - although saying it's fine to lie to the public and that lying is ethical was the opinion of only one party. The others seemingly no it's wrong but carry on anyway.

 

Thanks for letting me know I have lost contact with reality do you suggest l go see a midlands doctor on my next visit?

 

Very true what they say about Brummies.

 

Full of <>

19 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Nowhere did I claim that the Shinawatra administration respected the system of check and balances, I said they were subjected to it. Best not discuss the NACC, they have beyond any doubt proven to be partial. The sooner this agency is replaced with an agency that does what it is supposed to be doing without any obvious bias, the better. 

 

By the way the NACC is not the only instrument of this, parliament and the senate (remember half appointed) play a more vital role. 

 

Whether or not the Shinawatras would have accepted the decision with grace, well they would have no choice in the matter. There is no option to not accept, but to date they have not had the displeasure of being voted out of office, not a single time. 

 

I don't care for or support the Shinawatras, but I do see that the opposition against them is using dirty tricks to gain the upper hand. And at no point in time were teh Shinawatras able to do what you claim they wanted to do. In fact, I have not seen a single thred of evidence this was their intention. 

 

In any case, it's useless to discuss something that never happened, let's focus on what did happen, and what is currently happening, maybe then you understand why a coup is never the answer. But alas, some people need more time to see the obvious. 

 

Shins would not support the election of provincial governors preferring a system where they as the government could appoint there friends.

 

Shins halved the NACC budget; declared there was no corruption in PTP (555!) and used the DSI under a tame Tarit as their attack dog.

 

They tried all sorts of legal wrangling to try to get the Don Meuang by election result over turned and the BKK governor result was also challenged. Guess you missed those.

 

If you think a government run by a crook from overseas, which not only ignores courts but intimidates and tries to bribe them, that concentrates on passing laws which will benefit themselves whilst turning a blind eye to corruption, can be simply voted out, then you have more faith in democracy than me. As many despots currently show, they were elected and keep getting re-elected even when changing the law to facilitate it.

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

All Shin lovers claim all courts are "Kangaroo" when Shins are convicted. But they're fine when they convict the opposition!

 

The Shins are crooks, get over it. Insider dealing, abuses of power, negligent in office, fraud, - how many is it in their family now?

 

And again, all Shin lovers resort to deflection by accusing any who have the timidity to question the Shins as being Junta huggers and supporters.

 

I don't support the Junta - but I don't believe the Shin fairy stories either. Which is morally worse Eric, a Junta or a government that constantly lies, isn't democratic in nature, ignores the law, condones murder and intimidation by its supporters and robs you blind?

i do not disagree with any of your major points (and appears there is passion there); i will point out that the third of three major forces, the yellows (and their Real backers) represent the entrenched , ever-growing disparity between haves and have-nots here, which will eventually ruin this place;

add it all up and you get a dim future

2 minutes ago, wakeupplease said:

 

Thanks for letting me know I have lost contact with reality do you suggest l go see a midlands doctor on my next visit?

 

Very true what they say about Brummies.

 

Full of <>

 

I didn't suggest anything about seeing a doctor - you are seeing things now as well? 

 

It's against forum rules to claim posters wrote things they didn't. It's lying.

 

I've no idea what you are on about Brummies for? One of your silly incorrect suppositions again perhaps?

 

It's also against forum rules to insult posters.

 

Now run along and let the grown ups have a sensible discussion.

 

5 minutes ago, YetAnother said:

i do not disagree with any of your major points (and appears there is passion there); i will point out that the third of three major forces, the yellows (and their Real backers) represent the entrenched , ever-growing disparity between haves and have-nots here, which will eventually ruin this place;

add it all up and you get a dim future

 

Agreed. The gap and growing disparity between the haves and have-nots is a world wide phenomenon. Thailand is one of more extreme examples. 

 

Without real bona fide political parties, that really represent the people, without a robust fair and impartial justice system, without significant reforms, the future doesn't look bright.

 

Those that "have" won't see it that way of course. And so change and reform will be resisted.

First read what I wrote and what you wrote previously

 

You stated I had lost contact with reality

 

So I said thank you for telling me I had lost contact with realaity

 

Then I asked if you recommend I go see a Midlands doctor

 

Fact

 

You insulted me then, but I forgive you as I know you are under pressure

 

Then you said

 

Now run along and let the grown ups have a sensible discussion.

 

another insult

 

Look in the mirror you are the one insulting people my friend, go and have a cool drink it will make you feel better

53 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

AFAIR - the rule was something prohibiting a PM having another paid job or some such. His enemies used it to attack him and he denied having been paid. Then someone showed he was paid. So his lying about the payment became the issue. 

 

Stupid - hardly surprising here is it? They'll argue about the color of socks or something as trivial and blow it out of all proportions with draconian consequences when it suits. But totally ignore a major criminal event!

 

 

He received a travel allowance of 5000 baht. He did not lie. He did not hold another paid job. Classic example of bias right here. It was a ridiculous decision. 

43 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Shins would not support the election of provincial governors preferring a system where they as the government could appoint there friends.

 

Shins halved the NACC budget; declared there was no corruption in PTP (555!) and used the DSI under a tame Tarit as their attack dog.

 

They tried all sorts of legal wrangling to try to get the Don Meuang by election result over turned and the BKK governor result was also challenged. Guess you missed those.

 

If you think a government run by a crook from overseas, which not only ignores courts but intimidates and tries to bribe them, that concentrates on passing laws which will benefit themselves whilst turning a blind eye to corruption, can be simply voted out, then you have more faith in democracy than me. As many despots currently show, they were elected and keep getting re-elected even when changing the law to facilitate it.

Right, and your point is ? I was referring to national elections, which to date they have always won. You keep continue to criticize Thaksin, but fail to address the issue of the current government who are not only above the law, they ARE the law.

 

Regardless of the flaws of Thaskin, whose role in Thai politics is all but done, the current rulers have done all that you accuse him off and more. yet they seem to get a complete free pass. They are the ones you should be concerned about, Thaksin is history. 

 

To state that he could not be voted out is ludicrous, he certainly could as all his power was based on results at the ballot box, the current lot will go whenever they decide when they go, and with the "approved" constitution, they are not  really going anywhere of course. Yeah I can see the vast improvements being made ! Oh my god. 

Good Choice!

 

"Government spokesman Lt. Ge. Sansern Kaewkamnerd said, "We want the society to move beyond politics because if we are still stuck to it, we would not go anywhere"."

 

 

Oh really? After 100's of years where have you gone?   Many "newer' countries around South East Asia have forged ahead or are forging ahead of Thailand!

 

Just sounds like an excuse for the military to retain control - in one way or the other, despite the now PM saying: "Democracy will never die from Thailand because I am a democratic soldier but I stay in power because I want democracy to survive” - General Prayuth Chan-O-Cha.

 

Therefore, who is not telling the truth to his fellow countrymen (or the world)? 

 Damn. Ignore this last picture - my error :-(

20 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

All Shin lovers claim all courts are "Kangaroo" when Shins are convicted. But they're fine when they convict the opposition!

 

The Shins are crooks, get over it. Insider dealing, abuses of power, negligent in office, fraud, - how many is it in their family now?

 

And again, all Shin lovers resort to deflection by accusing any who have the timidity to question the Shins as being Junta huggers and supporters.

 

I don't support the Junta - but I don't believe the Shin fairy stories either. Which is morally worse Eric, a Junta or a government that constantly lies, isn't democratic in nature, ignores the law, condones murder and intimidation by its supporters and robs you blind?

 

The junta is morally worse. It isn't democratic in nature, makes up the law, does its own intimidation and robs you blind. And, was never elected, and can never be held accountable for its transgressions.