After Las Vegas massacre, Democrats urge gun laws; Republicans silent

[Artisi]

11 hours ago, JAG said:

Yes. I know it is not really my place to comment on the US Constitution, but I am pretty sure that the purpose of the second amendment was to allow for the maintenance of a well regulated militia to defend the isolated and perhaps vulnerable settlements which then made up the new republic, rather than to facilitate a nutter with a grudge (they've always got a grudge) machine gun a concert from the upper stories of a hotel.

Maybe it is time to revisit how it is interpreted?

With muzzle loading firearms, so it would be logical to revert to the original concept and apply the amendment allowing firearms of that period.  

[lannarebirth]

20 hours ago, Jonnapat said:

Republicans silent.

That says it all for me. Will this country never learn? Guess not while the NRA rule the roost.

 

 

The NRA doesn't rule the roost. Money rules the roost. Take a look at every single major political issue in America and you'll find Congress doesn't do the right thing because they are being paid to not do the right thing.

 

"Money doesn't talk, it swears"  -- Bob Dylan

[jaywalker]

8 hours ago, Throatwobbler said:

I am sorry that you would rather have people slaughtered by guns than try and do anything about it. Just shows that your love of playing with a shiny toy is worth more than a persons life. I wonder what you will say if it is your family caught in the middle of the next senseless killing.

 

 

Never said I wanted anybody slaughtered.

 

YOU just claim that I do. Pretty pathetic.

[craigt3365]

8 hours ago, Throatwobbler said:

I am sorry that you would rather have people slaughtered by guns than try and do anything about it. Just shows that your love of playing with a shiny toy is worth more than a persons life. I wonder what you will say if it is your family caught in the middle of the next senseless killing.

 

 

You obviously didn't read his post in detail.  Few would ever pass the 8 month FBI background check.  Especially this guy who's father was a convicted bank robber on the run.

[boomerangutang]

6 hours ago, jaywalker said:

You forgot one part. You just roll over and die without being able to fight back.

That IS the Politically Correct way isn't it?

 

Looking at just two of the hundreds of recent (within past 2 yrs) mass shootings in the US:  Sandy Hook Elementary School, and the Las Vegas Hwy 91 Concert:   In neither case would it have made any difference if the people being shot at, had guns.   At Sandy Hook, it's not reasonable to picture teachers or toddlers wielding guns.  At Vegas, the people being shot were a long distance from the shooter, downhill, and didn't know where the shooter was.  Heck, they didn't even know they were being shot at, until they saw heads exploding in piles of blood and guts.  If the killer had silencers, as the NRA and Republicans would have allowed him to have, he could have kept shooting for several more minutes.  

[boomerangutang]

A bit of US history to put this gun problem in perspective.  Part of what Matthews is showing, in his monologue, is that efforts were underway as far back as the mid 20th century, to stem the insane proliferation of guns. Some of the most outspoken proponents of sensible gun laws were, .....wait for it, ......gunned down. 

 

Right wingers, Rednecks, Trump fans, Neo-Nazis, Republicans, and White Supremacists are winning the political game right now, and Vegas and Sandy Hook are just two of the outcomes of that... . . . .  

 

 

[LannaGuy]

Why is it legal to own a machine gun but not a milligram of cannabis?   it's INSANE  

[Throatwobbler]

30 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

Never said I wanted anybody slaughtered.

 

YOU just claim that I do. Pretty pathetic.

You post a lot of rubbish about guns. It is clear that your love of guns is more important to you than innocent people getting slaughtered. You can claim what you like but all your posts on here show a different story.

[Rimmer]

A troll post and replies have been removed

[craigt3365]

4 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

Why is it legal to own a machine gun but not a milligram of cannabis?   it's INSANE  

He modified his guy to make it semi-automatic.  It's legal to own a machine gun, but there are many restrictions.  Many. 

 

In many states now, it's perfectly legal to posses cannabis.

[lannarebirth]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

He modified his guy to make it semi-automatic.  It's legal to own a machine gun, but there are many restrictions.  Many. 

 

In many states now, it's perfectly legal to posses cannabis.

 

Current information indicates he had 12 bump stock rifles in his hotel room.

[Denim]

Gun laws in America = pi**ing in the wind.

 

Just too many guns out there to regulate in any meaningful way.

[Throatwobbler]

1 minute ago, Denim said:

Gun laws in America = pi**ing in the wind.

 

Just too many guns out there to regulate in any meaningful way.

So you would rather put your head in sand and try to do nothing about it. Every time there is a gun massacre just put it down to one of the risks of living in the country.

[Denim]

2 minutes ago, Throatwobbler said:

So you would rather put your head in sand and try to do nothing about it. Every time there is a gun massacre just put it down to one of the risks of living in the country.

 

I am talking about obvious fact. You are talking about moral duty .......not the same thing.

 

In Europe where strict gun control laws have been in force for a long time guns still turn up in the wrong hands and are used in crime.

 

I agree with idea of gun control but in Americas case , with just so many guns hidden away I don't think any law would make much of a dent in crime figures.

[KarenBravo]

The right time to have implemented Gun Control, was after the Civil War.

Far, far too late to make any difference now. 

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Appalling to watch some of the news coverage yesterday  as usual the craven Liberal politicians calling for gun regulations while victims are still fighting for there lives in ICU! 

 

Not a single one of these suggested laws would have prevented the Las Vegas massacre. 

[boomerangutang]

59 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

Never said I wanted anybody slaughtered.

No, of course you don't want anyone to get their head blown apart with a hollow point bullet from an automatic weapon. 

 

But you and your buddies are enablers.  

 

If I support the manufacture and sale of mustard gas, and people start dying from being gassed, I'm part of the problem.

[boomerangutang]

6 minutes ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

Appalling to watch some of the news coverage yesterday  as usual the craven Liberal politicians calling for gun regulations while victims are still fighting for there lives in ICU! 

Not a single one of these suggested laws would have prevented the Las Vegas massacre. 

 

If you were the head of a fighting force, and your men were sneak attacked, would you refrain from responding until you had properly mourned the dead, patched up the wounded, and assessed the situation?  I hope not. 

 

I would hope you act with alacrity.  Thus far this year, in the USA, there's been a mass murder (4 or more people in same locale) with guns on average once per day.  Accordingly, there should be another one today, and another tomorrow, and another Friday and so on.  Are you ok with sitting back and letting all those mass murders keep on happening, day after day?   I'm not.

 

I've suggested a law (among several) which would have prevented the extent of carnage we saw in Vegas:  outlaw conversion kits which transform guns to semi- and fully automatic.  If the shooter had single shot gun, many less people would have died.   Same for the other mass murders that make US headlines every week.

[boomerangutang]

Vegas Shooter Had 'Bump Stocks' To Convert Rifles to Full-Auto Firing Rates
The replaceable stocks greatly increase a semi-automatic's rate of fire with no permanent or mechanical modification.

Along with the 23 guns that police officers found in Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock's Mandalay Bay hotel room, officials also found two "bump stocks." These devices, which are legal, use a semi-automatic weapon's recoil to allow it to fire repeatedly at a rate closer to that of a fully-automatic weapon.

Bump stocks are simple pieces of equipment that replace the stock of a rifle and add a small "support step" in front of the trigger. The shooter rests his finger on this step and pulls forward on the barrel or forward grip to press the trigger against his finger. The recoil of the shot then propels the rifle backwards into a gap in stationary stock where the loose fit gives the rifle freedom to bounce forward. This, along with sustained forward pressure on the rifle, has the effect of 'bumping' the trigger back into the shooter's unmoving finger. So long as a shooter maintains forward pressure, the rifle will continue to fire at a rate much faster than could be accomplished with even the quickest possible series of manual trigger pulls.

 

source:  popularmechanics.com/technology/news/a28479/vegas-shooter-bump-stock/

 

 

These mechanisms should be as illegal as mustard gas.  Because Republicans and NRA actively support such upgrades to such killing machines, they are all complicit in the mass murders like Vegas.  

[boomerangutang]

Hey gun lovers, here's a video that should get your little willies hard. . . . . . .

 

 

 

[Kieran00001]

On 10/3/2017 at 7:29 AM, inThailand said:

Kinda like...how easy it is to get illegal drugs? 

 

In Europe guns are mostly illegal, drugs are everywhere but strangely guns are not, why is that?

 

The thing about comments like guns don't kill people, people do, is that people with guns kill efficiently.  Sure, there will always be murderers but without guns they only tend to kill one or two people, very rarely do we see even terrorist attacks with large explosives manage to kill as many as this one man with legally bought firearms.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

44 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

 

If you were the head of a fighting force, and your men were sneak attacked, would you refrain from responding until you had properly mourned the dead, patched up the wounded, and assessed the situation?  I hope not. 

 

I would hope you act with alacrity.  Thus far this year, in the USA, there's been a mass murder (4 or more people in same locale) with guns on average once per day.  Accordingly, there should be another one today, and another tomorrow, and another Friday and so on.  Are you ok with sitting back and letting all those mass murders keep on happening, day after day?   I'm not.

 

I've suggested a law (among several) which would have prevented the extent of carnage we saw in Vegas:  outlaw conversion kits which transform guns to semi- and fully automatic.  If the shooter had single shot gun, many less people would have died.   Same for the other mass murders that make US headlines every week.

Your previous post calling gun owners "rednecks" who like to drink beer, comparing them negatively to brainwashed children at Socialist daycamp, and ridiculous strawman arguments of arming schoolchildren illuminates your deep bias in a way that needs no further comment. Quotes from Noam Chomsky? 

Conetticut is an open carry State as I far as care the politicians who insist on gun free zones have some responsibility for Sandy Hook by preventing those teachers and staff who may have chosen to carry weapons if they cared to do so.

 

Emotional pleas by Liberal politicians for gun control measures they cannot get in a democratic way through the ballot box, while the bodies are still warm, is cowardly. A law to insist on single shot weapons only is a guarantee the law abiding will be outgunned by criminals. A skilled marksman is far more effective in short bursts or single shot anyway this event was unprecedented. We need enhanced smarter security flexed up for events like this, and expect to see bag searches at hotels. If the President for example had been speaking in such a location (just for example) line of site threats would have been secured, and there would be counter snipers in place.  

 

Active shooter training should be expanded. The victims here, many of them did the exact wrong thing, and the evacuation plan at the Country Music festival was very poor. The murderer here has apparently no criminal record and no connection to terrorism. Does he have mental illness history? A law that would prevent  a complete black swan event with lone wolf from having guns, would mean everybody's rights would be curtailed.

Edited October 4, 2017 by ChiangMaiLightning2143

[Kieran00001]

58 minutes ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

Appalling to watch some of the news coverage yesterday  as usual the craven Liberal politicians calling for gun regulations while victims are still fighting for there lives in ICU! 

 

Not a single one of these suggested laws would have prevented the Las Vegas massacre. 

 

You have a vivid imagination.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

You have a vivid imagination or selective memory forgetting the many terror attacks recently in Europe involving guns.

[Throatwobbler]

3 minutes ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

Your previous post calling gun owners "rednecks" who like to drink beer, comparing them negatively to brainwashed children at Socialist daycamp, and ridiculous strawman arguments of arming schoolchildren illuminates your deep bias in a way that needs no further comment. Quotes from Noam Chomsky? 

Conetticut is an open carry State as I care the politicians who insist on gun free zones have some responsibility for Sandy Hook by preventing those teachers and staff who may have chosen to carry weapons if they cared to do so.

 

Emotional pleas by Liberal politicians for gun control measures they cannot get in a democratic way through the ballot box, while the bodies are still warm, is cowardly. A law to insist on single shot weapons only is a guarantee the law abiding will be outgunned by criminals. A skilled marksman is far more effective in short bursts or single shot anyway this event was unprecedented. We need enhanced smarter security flexed up for events like this, and expect to see bag searches at hotels. If the President for example had been speaking line of site threats would have been secured, and there would be counter snipers in place.  

 

Active shooter training should be expanded. The victims here, many of them did the exact wrong thing, and the evacuation plan at the Country Music festival was very poor. The murderer here has apparently no criminal record and no connection to terrorism. Does he have mental illness history? 

Are you suggesting that everybody should be trained in what to do if someone opens fire upon them. That there should be counter snipers set up at all gatherings of people. Is that the sort of country you want to live in.

 

Next you go on to blame the music festival for having a poor evacuation plan. You seem to think that they should have taken into consideration the fact that somebody could fire hundreds of rounds into the crowd from the 32nd floor of a nearby hotel. You want to blame everyone else for the fact. 

 

You lash out at everything except the fact of being able to easily and legally get hold of the weapons that did this. This lashing out shows me that deep down you know that you and your gun loving friends take a lot of blame for this and every other massacre that kills innocent people.

[Throatwobbler]

5 minutes ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

You have a vivid imagination or selective memory forgetting the many terror attacks recently in Europe involving guns.

How many massacres in America compared to how many in Europe.. No one is saying that gun control will completely stop the massacres but it will bring the numbers down. How ever you obviously do not care one bit about the lives of innocent people.

[Opl]

some wealthy donors make the decision and " do not care one bit about the lives of innocent people. "

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

16 minutes ago, Throatwobbler said:

Are you suggesting that everybody should be trained in what to do if someone opens fire upon them. That there should be counter snipers set up at all gatherings of people. Is that the sort of country you want to live in.

 

Next you go on to blame the music festival for having a poor evacuation plan. You seem to think that they should have taken into consideration the fact that somebody could fire hundreds of rounds into the crowd from the 32nd floor of a nearby hotel. You want to blame everyone else for the fact. 

 

You lash out at everything except the fact of being able to easily and legally get hold of the weapons that did this. This lashing out shows me that deep down you know that you and your gun loving friends take a lot of blame for this and every other massacre that kills innocent people.

Yes everybody should get active shooter training. America is a dangerous country that is under multiple threats from within. Unfortunate, but we need to be prepared. This would have not happened in Israel for example, but there is no history of bag checks for hotel guests. They will be coming but there are 4th ammendment issues that would also be challenged. I'm American I don't live there, probably will not again and don't need a gun. If I did live there I would be well armed. If you want to change the Constitution of the United States and curtail a right the "founding fathers" made number two I suggest we let that up to the democratic process of the American people who vote there, not gun grabbing Liberal demagogues.

 

As for your assertion in your next post that I do not care about the victims that is just a ridiculous insult, no other comment necessary. 

Edited October 4, 2017 by ChiangMaiLightning2143

[NanLaew]

22 hours ago, WaywardWind said:

Your post is confusing, at least to me.

 

There are no "...laws in the Second Amendment..."

 

Scalia's words are contained in the Heller vs DC decision of the Supreme Court, which is the highest and final word on constitutional issues. That decision (and the subsequent McDonald decision which extended Heller to the states) remain today the latest holding of the Supreme Court on the reach of the Second Amendment.

 

OK, since the laws being debated are couched in Second Amendment rights, try this.

 

"But there's no reference to 'one's residence' or any 'single operable firearm' or even 'compliance' in the 2nd Amendment is there? The 'parameters' that you speak of were simply Justice Scalia's grandiloquent, one-off embellishment that he of all people, should have known would play right into the 'cold dead hands' of the NRA's powerful lobby."

 

No laws inferred, just stating that a Chief Justice's ruling doesn't amount to a hill of beans when it comes to the NRA's powers.

 

Since June 26th, 2008 when that "highest and final word on constitutional issues" was made, the following mass/multiple shootings have prevailed.

 

APRIL 3, 2009     13 killed, 4 injured: Binghamton, NY

NOV. 5, 2009      13 killed, 32 injured: Ft. Hood, TX

FEB. 12, 2010      3 killed, 3 injured: Huntsville, AL

AUG. 3, 2010      8 killed, 2 injured: Manchester, CN

JAN. 8, 2011        6 killed, 11 injured: Tucson, AZ

OCT. 12, 2011     8 killed, 1 injured: Seal Beach, CA

APRIL 2, 2012     7 killed, 3 injured: Oakland, CA

JULY 20, 2012     12 killed, 58 injured: Aurora, CO

AUG. 5, 2012      6 killed, 3 injured: Oak Creek, WI

SEPT. 28, 2012    6 killed, 2 injured: Minneapolis, MN

OCT. 21, 2012     3 killed, 4 injured: Brookfield, WI

DEC. 14, 2012     27 killed, one injured: Newtown, CN

JUNE 7, 2013      5 killed: Santa Monica, CA

SEPT. 16, 2013    12 killed, 3 injured: Washington, D.C.

APRIL 2, 2014     3 killed; 16 injured: Ft. Hood, TX

MAY 23, 2014     6 killed, 7 injured: Isla Vista, CA

JUNE 18, 2015    9 killed: Charleston, SC

JULY 16, 2015     5 killed, 3 injured: Chattanooga, TN

OCT. 1, 2015       9 killed, 9 injured: Roseburg, OR

NOV. 29, 2015    3 killed, 9 injured: Colorado Springs, CO

DEC. 2, 2015        14 killed, 22 injured: San Bernardino, CA

JUNE 12, 2016    49 killed, 58 injured in Orlando, FL

SEPT. 23, 2016    5 killed: Burlington, WA

JUNE 14, 2017    3 killed: San Francisco, CA

JAN. 6, 2017        5 killed, 6 injured: Fort Lauderdale, FL

JUNE 5, 2017      5 killed: Orange County, FL

OCT 1, 2017         59 killed, more than 500 injured: Las Vegas, NV

 

None of the above were killed or injured by a single firearm being kept at home to protect an American citizen's residence, the right afforded them by the Second Amendment.

 

But the friends, relatives and survivors of the above may have something to say about the victims being denied the inalienable rights granted them in the Declaration of Independence. You know, the bit that Jefferson added about "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".

 

I rest my case.

Edited October 4, 2017 by NanLaew

[pegman]

1 hour ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

Appalling to watch some of the news coverage yesterday  as usual the craven Liberal politicians calling for gun regulations while victims are still fighting for there lives in ICU! 

 

Not a single one of these suggested laws would have prevented the Las Vegas massacre. 

You think they don't want debate on sane gun control laws? How about those after market devices that create full autos being outlawed? Would that have made a difference?