U.S. Republican leaders shun talk of gun control measures

[stevenl]

4 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

Laughable nonsense from the usual suspects.  Your "failed state" sure seems to reliably attract the tourists and immigrants.   ROFL.     This guy was a multi-millionaire, and he obviously planned this thing meticulously.   ('Saw a pic on the news showing how neatly he had his magazines stacked...)   More gun laws piled on top of existing gun laws weren't ever going to stop a maniac like this.   'Only a matter of time until you can "print"  your AR-15 or Uzi anyway, and other terrorists have had quite a bit of "luck" with bombs and vehicles as well thanks to certain terror-sponsoring states.  If you're actually looking for an answer (rather than just mindlessly pursuing an agenda and addicted to treating tragedies like this as political "opportunities"), you need to start taking a closer look inside the heads of these monsters and doing something about THAT as well as exploring more consistent enforcement of EXISTING prohibitions - instead of playing presidential games with the ATF that put these weapons in the hands of Mexican cartels - because I guarantee than an obsessed mass-murderer who's willing to sacrifice his own life will ALWAYS find a way around such restrictions, while those law-abiding citizens who've been disarmed by their govt may NOT.   Just today (or yesterday), a home childcare facility operator in San Diego successfully defended the 7 kids in her home from her ex-, who was firing into the house and attempting to barge into it, by retrieving and using HER gun!  (She's being called a hero by neighbors AND police who give her complete credit for saving those kids from injury by using her own gun in self-defense.)   A 22yo guy named Robert Engle in Tennessee accomplished almost the same thing at a church in Antioch even after being pistol-whipped himself by the assailant who'd already killed a woman in the church parking lot.

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

Nice examples. Did you ever consider what would have happened had the perp outside the church and the daycare center not been able to obtain firearms?

[boomerangutang]

6 hours ago, JoePai said:

This 2nd Amendment seems to be the main problem/excuse for these fruit cakes wanting guns so why not just delete it 

 

Americans need to simply interpret the amendment according to its words and its meaning.  That's what the chief justice of the SC did during Nixon's time, and he determined it doesn't allow the ownership of any types of guns for any Americans.  Right-wingers have been skewing/bastardizing the meaning of the 2nd Amendment every since - and they're succeeding.

 

4 hours ago, expat_4_life said:

The sale of machine guns/automatic weapons has been banned since 1986.

 

Not true.   Plus conversion kits are legal and are being sold daily.  They should be outlawed to the same extent that we outlaw bomb-making materials.  NRA and right-wingers won't allow that.

 

But McConnell said it was too soon to talk about legislation when the investigation into the shooting had not been completed. "It's particularly inappropriate to politicize an event like this ... entirely premature to be discussing about legislative solutions, if any," McConnell said.

If Mitch's car, full of family, got a tire blow-out and rolled down a steep hill, would he say, "It's inappropriate to talk about safety of tires right now.   I'll tell you when it's appropriate to discuss tire issues - much much later, if ever."   

 

Message to Mitch:  what about the average 1 gun-related mass murder per day for the past 500 days in the US.  When do we have your permission to talk about gun issues on those murders?   Oh, of course, you NEVER want to have a public discussion about gun murders.  The NRA pays you to shut down any discussions, so you're just doing your job. 

 

 

[joecoolfrog]

6 hours ago, thaihome said:

Why is it OK to politicize an incident when it is perpetuated by an "other" but not when it is done by "us"?

TH 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/03/opinion/stephen-paddock-las-vegas-terrorism.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

 

5 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

More gun ? laws wouldn't have stopped this killer in Vegas. We're sure he passed all background checks to purchase those guns as his record was clean 

This guy was a 'singleton' and best theory right now is he was "Oswalded" 

We will never know if gun control works though will we , the NRA and its elected pet monkeys wont allow effective , loophole free legislation.

[connda]

Just now, CaptHaddock said:

The US is beginning to look like a failed state that cannot provide basic safety for its citizens.  The National Rifle Association, the propaganda arm of the American gun industry, has already bought and paid for Trump by contributing $30 million to his campaign last year.  They have similarly bought and paid for the Republican senators and many members of the House of Representatives long since.  So, any attempt to control guns will fail. 

 

But that's how things are supposed to work in a plutocracy.

 

 

"The US is beginning to look like a failed state that cannot provide basic safety for its citizens."

The fact is that no 'state' or government can provide basic safety for it's citizens.  That, at best, is an illusion.  Which is why an armed citizenry provides basic safety for themselves.  

When there are only seconds between life and death, the police are only minutes away. 

[joecoolfrog]

4 hours ago, losworld said:

Anyone with any investigative skills and common sense can quickly deduct that this was not the actions of one man.  Antifa and ISIS have both claimed involvment.  Witnesses in the hotel and on the ground have seen more than one shooter.  Let's have a thorough investigation or is this all about distorting the facts to get a political agenda to remove guns?  

Yes mental health is a recurring theme in this discussion , do you see pink elephants as well ?

[Green Acres]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

How about a law saying it is illegal to own 40 machine guns? Are you people completely bereft of common sense?

Yes, they are. 

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, connda said:

"The US is beginning to look like a failed state that cannot provide basic safety for its citizens."

The fact is that no 'state' or government can provide basic safety for it's citizens.  That, at best, is an illusion.  Which is why an armed citizenry provides basic safety for themselves.  

When there are only seconds between life and death, the police are only minutes away. 

 

Codswallop

[connda]

Just now, Grouse said:

How about a law saying it is illegal to own 40 machine guns? Are you people completely bereft of common sense?

99.99999999999999% of the US citizens who legally own guns don't go on homicidal killer sprees.  They own guns to protect themselves from the 0.000000000000001% who go homicidal, and those maniacs can obtain their firearms from the black markets and other illegal venues with ease.

Some people collect cars; some people collect guns.  Do you make cars illegal because some psychopaths use vehicles to murder innocent bystanders as in Nice?  Do we make silverware illegal because some crazy goes homicidal with cutlery?  

Edited October 4, 2017 by connda

[Grouse]

Just now, connda said:

99.99999999999999% of the US citizens who legally own guns don't go on homicidal killer sprees.  They own guns to protect themselves from the 0.000000000000001% who go homicidal, and those manics can obtain their firearms from the black markets and other illegal venues with ease.

 

So it's all complete <deleted>. QED

 

You have just PROVED it!!

[boomerangutang]

1 minute ago, connda said:

"The US is beginning to look like a failed state that cannot provide basic safety for its citizens."
The fact is that no 'state' or government can provide basic safety for it's citizens.  That, at best, is an illusion.  Which is why an armed citizenry provides basic safety for themselves.  
When there are only seconds between life and death, the police are only minutes away. 

 

Connda opines; "The fact is that no 'state' or government can provide basic safety for it's citizens."

 

Boomer responds: That's a flaccid argument.  That's like saying, "No state can assure its citizens that they won't get fat from ingesting obscene amounts of sugar and trans-fats. "  Yet in the US, sugar and trans-fats are everywhere where there's food, and that's why 80% of Americans are overweight, half of those dangerously so.

 

Compare that to the gun issue:  If there are hundreds of millions of guns in the US, gun problems will ensue.  Less guns = less problems.  Simple.  Similarly less lethal guns = less lethality when a buttplug goes postal.

Sometimes I feel like I'm explaining these things to a naughty 5 year old brat.   'If you toss garbage in the swimming pool, it's going to make the water dirty for everyone who wants to swim.

 

The incidence of armed private citizens actually shooting bad guys is small.  There are more toddlers shooting toddlers (or their own parents) than armed Americans shooting thieves breaking and entering their dwellings.

 

'

 

 

[joecoolfrog]

17 minutes ago, connda said:

"The US is beginning to look like a failed state that cannot provide basic safety for its citizens."

The fact is that no 'state' or government can provide basic safety for it's citizens.  That, at best, is an illusion.  Which is why an armed citizenry provides basic safety for themselves.  

When there are only seconds between life and death, the police are only minutes away. 

Its a miracle any Brits / Aussies / Canuks etc have survived at all !

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

 

Connda opines; "The fact is that no 'state' or government can provide basic safety for it's citizens."

 

Boomer responds: That's a flaccid argument.  That's like saying, "No state can assure its citizens that they won't get fat from ingesting obscene amounts of sugar and trans-fats. "  Yet in the US, sugar and trans-fats are everywhere where there's food, and that's why 80% of Americans are overweight, half of those dangerously so.

 

Compare that to the gun issue:  If there are hundreds of millions of guns in the US, gun problems will ensue.  Less guns = less problems.  Simple.  Similarly less lethal guns = less lethality when a buttplug goes postal.

Sometimes I feel like I'm explaining these things to a naughty 5 year old brat.   'If you toss garbage in the swimming pool, it's going to make the water dirty for everyone who wants to swim.

 

The incidence of armed private citizens actually shooting bad guys is small.  There are more toddlers shooting toddlers (or their own parents) than armed Americans shooting thieves breaking and entering their dwellings.

 

'

 

 

 

Are there any statistics on that?

 

How many people's lives have been saved because someone had a firearm handy v how many people have died accidentally or been mown down by F*** W**s?

[Green Acres]

8 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

 

We will never know if gun control works though will we , the NRA and its elected pet monkeys wont allow effective , loophole free legislation.

Pet monkeys is far too polite. Mitch Mcconnel and his band of merry men (and women) are nothing more than whores to the gun lobby. They obviously couldn't care less about the never-ending carnage. 

Guns don't kill people. The NRA and the U.S. Congress kill people.

[connda]

Just now, CaptHaddock said:

1,516 mass shootings in 1,735 days: America's gun crisis

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/oct/02/america-mass-shootings-gun-violence

 

US has the most guns per capita in the world and the most shootings per capita.  Who could have known?

Why is it when stats like this are tossed out, they sort of leave out the countries like Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Somalia, Yemen, et.al. These countries are simply floating in firearms often supplied by Western firearm manufacturers selling to both side of a conflict.  But, your Western corporate media doesn't report the absolute carnage happening in other countries.  It's not politically expedient.  The goal is to disarm the United States.  So there is the media's focus.  

Edited October 4, 2017 by connda

[Grouse]

Night all! Off to polish my Sheriff's badge! I'm saving up for the Marshall's one ?

[connda]

Just now, ballpoint said:

No, it's perfectly normal to wonder why events like this happen so often, and discuss whether the rampant availability of automatic weapons has anything to do with that.  Shouting down those who do so in the interests of your own agenda is politicizing it.

Automatic weapons are illegal in the US.

[Blue Muton]

Money in their pockets and blood on their hands, no change.

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, connda said:

Automatic weapons are illegal in the US.

 

Are you being slightly disingenuous there? What about semEYE automatics ( whatever they are).

[boomerangutang]

The link below has audio of the actual police dispatches in Las Vegas.  Riveting!  Scroll down to 'Opening Minutes' and then go to just before 10 minutes in the audio.   

 

npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/04/555305057/listen-amid-chaos-in-las-vegas-police-dispatches-reveal-an-evolving-response

 

 

 

[connda]

Just now, CaptHaddock said:

The question is why America has so many loser men eager to empower their shabby lives by buying guns? 

Using the same logic, the question becomes, why non-American countries whose citizens are vehemently anti-firearm have so many loser men eager who are willing to coward in a corner when faced with a life-or-death situation, and allow themselves and their families to be assaulted, raped, or slaughtered, as opposed to empower themselves to protect the lives of their family and loved ones by actually owning and knowing how to use guns?  There really are two sides to this issue.

[joecoolfrog]

15 minutes ago, connda said:

Why is it when stats like this are tossed out, they sort of leave out the countries like Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Somalia, Yemen, et.al. These countries are simply floating in firearms often supplied by Western firearm manufacturers selling to both side of a conflict.  But, your Western corporate media doesn't report the absolute carnage happening in other countries.  It's not politically expedient.  The goal is to disarm the United States.  So there is the media's focus.  

All the countries you named are so called ' failed States ' , its alarming that you seem happy for the US to be lumped into that category.

[Blue Muton]

10 minutes ago, connda said:

Automatic weapons are illegal in the US.

 

Those used in yesterday's atrocity were legal.

[joecoolfrog]

7 minutes ago, connda said:

Using the same logic, the question becomes, why non-American countries whose citizens are vehemently anti-firearm have so many loser men eager who are willing to coward in a corner when faced with a life-or-death situation, and allow themselves and their families to be assaulted, raped, or slaughtered, as opposed to empower themselves to protect the lives of their family and loved ones by actually owning and knowing how to use guns?  There really are two sides to this issue.

There really isn't

[dunroaming]

26 minutes ago, connda said:

Some people collect cars; some people collect guns.  Do you make cars illegal because some psychopaths use vehicles to murder innocent bystanders as in Nice? 

Cars have the purpose of transporting people from A to B.  Gun's have the purpose of shooting people.  Your comments are the standard gun nuts defence and are, like always, simply ridiculous.

 

It doesn't matter how many times it is said, nothing will change.  Americans will continue shooting each other in small or large numbers.

 

[joecoolfrog]

19 minutes ago, connda said:

Automatic weapons are illegal in the US.

Yet devices that enable legal weapons to be transformed into illegal weapons are openly on sale. This is an obvious loophole that needs closing but the NRA bitterly opposes this sane solution.

[connda]

Just now, wwest5829 said:

I am a liberal, moderately, left of center ... Like to think of that as progress. I also own a hand gun and have held a CDWL. However, that gives me a balance seeming to be lacking between the wing nuts having stated authoritively that President Obama was coming to seize all guns and those wanting to do away with the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. I want SCOTUS to enforce the Amendment as written. "A well regulated militia being necessary for the commen defense...". Muskets ... OK, let's expand this to include hunting arms and hand guns. But weapons that exceed this (multi shot, bazookas, tanks, RPGs, etc. are not to be seen as anything but massive killing mechanisms and thus not allowed. Yes, SCOTUS has previously ruled otherwise but the Court has corrected past errors previously. A right to own an armament does not overrule my superior claim to be "secure in my person".

The Second Amendment was not written to facilitate game hunting and target practice.  But, I do commend you for exercising your right to bear arms.  

[connda]

Just now, Grouse said:

 

It seems to work just fine in the civilised world now doesn't it?

Does it?  Define 'civilised world' without falling into the trap of demeaning other cultures and societies?
Are your speaking from the position of one who lives in an "exceptional", "civilized" country? 
Back up.  How many bombs have gone off in the civilized EU and UK?  How many terrorist attacks and assaults with the use of firearms that are not legally available in the country?  Did tough gun laws stop the slaughter in the the numerous attacks in, say, France?  Stabbings?  Time to ban knives?  Vehicular attacks? Time to take away the vehicles?  Bombings and acid attacks?  Time to stop selling household chemicals?  
I'm just amazed at how many of you folks want your 'civilized' countries to become totalitarian regimes which control all aspect of your lives in the name of the illusion of personal safety, which by the way, they can never guarantee.  "Civilized."  That's actually rather humorous, as well as ethnocentric. 

Edited October 4, 2017 by connda

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, connda said:

Does it?  Define 'civilised world' without falling into the trap of demeaning other cultures societies?
Are your speaking from the position of one who lives in an "exceptional", "civilized" country? 
Back up.  How many bombs have gone off in the civilized EU and UK?  How many terrorist attacks and assaults?  Did tough gun laws stop the slaughter in the the numerous attacks in, say, France?  Stabbings?  Time to ban knives?  Vehicular attacks? Time to take away the vehicles?  Bombings and acid attacks?  Time to stop selling household chemicals?  
I'm just amazed at how many of you folks want your 'civilized' countries to become totalitarian regimes which control all aspect of your lives in the name of the illusion of personal safety, which by the way, they can never guarantee.  "Civilized."  That's actually rather humorous, as well as ethnocentric. 

Don't let your fantasy run away with you.

[connda]

Just now, connda said:

Automatic weapons are illegal in the US.

In most cases.  There are exceptions.  I'll even admit that it will be interesting to see if Stephen Paddock was one of the owners of the 150K fully-auto weapons that are registered in the US.
 

[connda]

Just now, Grouse said:

 

Are you being slightly disingenuous there? What about semEYE automatics ( whatever they are).

Semi-automatics are single shot firearms.  One trigger pull; one shot.