Some questions about agency teachers and the Thai SS act

[jenny2017]

A good friend of mine is working for an agency at a well known school. The school and the agency have made a contract with the employee for work permit and visa purposes. The two contracts, the one from the school is in Thai, are totally different. 

 

   Wouldn't a contract in Thai automatically mean that he's to register with the SS office in the province? 

 

   But he's without an insurance and just recently paid a good sum to a hospital when he had a motorbike accident that wasn't even his fault. The driver of a Pickup fled the scene and my friend had to pay more than 15,000 baht out of his pocket.

 

   When reading the Thai SS act, plus some other regulations online, it seems that the SS insurance is mandatory. My question is how do agencies bypass all these regulations that they're able to hire people without degrees and let them work on tourist visas, without an insurance?

 

  I hope that this topic wasn't discussed a million times and I just wanted to find out what the Thai law stipulates. Another teacher I know is paying in 438 baht privately, but was told by the SS office that he'd immediately have to inform the office once he's taking on employment. 

 

   He doesn't want to lose his SS and he's also working for an agency. What's your intake on this? Thanks a lot. 

 

   Are agencies somehow so special that they do not have to follow laws? Here's an interesting wording from a website:

 

Question : Social security registration fund and compensation fund

Answer : 
 

Q1: Which organization needs to be registered a social security fund, how long for the execution, and what documents need to be prepared?

 

Answer Employer that employ employee from 1or more must register employer registration and employee registration to enroll their insurance within 30 day and when there are more new employees into work must register new employees’registration within 30 days as well. .

Evidence must be presented to the employer registration.

 

   

Q5: Do enterprises with foreign employees need to register?

 

Answer Employer who employed foreigners work reorganization. If foreigners arrive in Thailand legally, employer must register social security, which will receive benefits as the insured Thai.

 

Q2: Enterprises those exempt from having to register social security fund.

 

Answer Every enterprises those have at least 1employees need access to social security systems.

 

Who are not in these regulations?

(1)  Government employee, Permanent Employee, Daily employees and hourly employees of Central Government, regional and local government, except monthly temporary employees.

(2)  Employees of foreign Government or international organization.

(3)  Employees of the employer with offices in the country and to regularly work in foreign countries.

(4)  The teacher or headmaster of the private school by law of private school.

(5)  Students, Nurse Students, Undergraduates or graduate training which under employed of schools, universities or hospitals.

(6)  Enterprise or other employees as state in the Decree as follows:

1.  Employees of Thai Barrister at law

2.  Employee of the chulabhorn Research Institute

3.  Employee of the Thai red cross

3.1 Employee of the offices of the national science and technology development agency.

4.  Employees of state enterprises by state enterprise laborrelation law

5.  Employee of Agricultural enterprise, fishing enterprise, forest planting and animal development enterprise which does not employ throughout the year, and do not have other works involved.

6.  Employees of employers who hire them to work occasionally as a manner or as a temporary or as seasonal occasion

7.  Employees of the employer that is a person which is their work don’t have any business involvement.

8.  Employees of employers who operate a stall trade or peddler trade.

 

  Please see the whole page here: http://osos.boi.go.th/index.php?page=faq_detail&group_id=163&topic_id=421

 

 

  

[tonray]

I don't think schools have to extend SS to agency contract employees. I never was part of it when I worked via an agency at government schools.

[jenny2017]

11 hours ago, tonray said:

I don't think schools have to extend SS to agency contract employees. I never was part of it when I worked via an agency at government schools.

 

   Thank you very much for your answer. My point being was more than it seems that the law in LOS stipulates that the social security is a must be regulation agencies just don't follow.

 

    One of the friends I've mentioned in my OP is in a strange situation now. If the SS office finds out that he's working for an agency at a school nearby school,  and he might be in deep <deleted> and perhaps lose his 438 baht insurance and pay a fine?

 

  Considering that a contract in Thai exists, even when it's only for visa and work permit purposes,  he should be registered at the office and both, the employer, in this case, the agency, and the employer would have to pay the obligatory 750 baht. My apologies when I've misread the Thai SS law/regulation. 

 

   

 

  

 

    

 

     

[tonray]

23 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

 

   Thank you very much for your answer. My point being was more than it seems that the law in LOS stipulates that the social security is a must be regulation agencies just don't follow.

 

    One of the friends I've mentioned in my OP is in a strange situation now. If the SS office finds out that he's working for an agency at a school nearby school,  and he might be in deep <deleted> and perhaps lose his 438 baht insurance and pay a fine?

 

  Considering that a contract in Thai exists, even when it's only for visa and work permit purposes,  he should be registered at the office and both, the employer, in this case, the agency, and the employer would have to pay the obligatory 750 baht. My apologies when I've misread the Thai SS law/regulation. 

 

   

 

  

 

    

 

     

But I believe teachers at private schools (agency really considered a private school) are exempted.

[jenny2017]

5 hours ago, tonray said:

But I believe teachers at private schools (agency really considered a private school) are exempted.

  Thanks, for the answer. But what if the employee had signed a Thai contract as well?

 

The SS office has told him to inform them immediately when he starts teaching again, otherwise, he might lose his private 438 baht insurance.

 

And his school's basically around the corner of the office.

 

   Does a Thai contract overwrite the English version when signed afterward?? Even when the Thai contract was only created to get him a provisional teacher's license, work permit and visa/extension of stay. 

 

   My apologies for the topic, but I was also thinking about a teaching gig. But not for that particular company.

 

     My friend's aware of the post and will hopefully create an account here and find out what the situation is.

 

   Unfortunately, you can ask five different people and get 20 different answers related to this topic. considering a number of foreign teachers in LOS.

 

     I thought the teaching forum would be the best forum to place such a post, but it doesn't look like it. 

 

  My apologies for these questions. 

 

  

[Scott]

If there is an English language and a Thai contract, the Thai contract is the legally binding one.   The English contract is only binding if it is the only contract.  

[farang62]

Look it up, everyone with a work permit must pay SS as stipulated in the law.

 

this should bring out the Nay Sayers!

[puchooay]

A grey area. The school will say you are an agency teacher. 

 

You can't pay SS via the agency as your WP is likely in the name of the school. 

 

Go to the SS office and ask to pay the 400+ monthly payments. See what they say. 

[pearciderman]

On 10/7/2017 at 10:31 AM, farang62 said:

Look it up, everyone with a work permit must pay SS as stipulated in the law.

 

this should bring out the Nay Sayers!

 

Incorrect, the company must have a minimum amount of employees before it becomes mandatory - not a "nay sayer" - just a fact poster.

[jenny2017]

On 10/8/2017 at 9:49 AM, puchooay said:

A grey area. The school will say you are an agency teacher. 

 

You can't pay SS via the agency as your WP is likely in the name of the school. 

 

Go to the SS office and ask to pay the 400+ monthly payments. See what they say. 

I've just met the guy who's paying in 440 baht per month. Unfortunately, did employees of the office tell him that he'd have to contact them in case of taking on employment.  They've also warned him that it would be illegal when he's not reporting them that he's working.

 

   A typical catch 22? He'd love to continue the regular 750 baht for both, but the agency doesn't give a toss, and the school is of course not interested to intervene. Where does that leave the employees? 

 

 He said that all the others at his school do not even have an accident insurance. If any of them has an accident they do not get paid and there's absolutely no security for them. The contract in Thai says 32 K, but they pay him 31?

 

   It does smell very fishy and I feel sorry for those who do not have other options than working under such circumstances. 

 

   

 

  

[jenny2017]

On 10/8/2017 at 6:11 PM, pearciderman said:

 

Incorrect, the company must have a minimum amount of employees before it becomes mandatory - not a "nay sayer" - just a fact poster.

How can certain agencies easily bypass such "mandatory laws and regulations"? 

[BuddyDean]

I lost count of how many times the 438 THB insurance was mentioned.  Ironically, its limits were never mentioned.  Don't let some school policy give you a false sense of security.  The basic accident policies from Bangkok Bank are likely cheaper with higher limits, but still nominal by Western standards.  They would have covered the teacher's 15,000 provided he wasn't intoxicated.  If working for an agency; your contract is with them, and they are responsible for various labor burden.  Your school has rules for you to follow, but they dumped all the BS on the agency.  Deducting SS and pocketing it, is SOP.  Same with income taxes.  You will owe the interest, penalties, and taxes.  A great way for them to squeeze you as you leave the country.

[jenny2017]

3 hours ago, BuddyDean said:

I lost count of how many times the 438 THB insurance was mentioned.  Ironically, its limits were never mentioned.  Don't let some school policy give you a false sense of security.  The basic accident policies from Bangkok Bank are likely cheaper with higher limits, but still nominal by Western standards.  They would have covered the teacher's 15,000 provided he wasn't intoxicated.  If working for an agency; your contract is with them, and they are responsible for various labor burden.  Your school has rules for you to follow, but they dumped all the BS on the agency.  Deducting SS and pocketing it, is SOP.  Same with income taxes.  You will owe the interest, penalties, and taxes.  A great way for them to squeeze you as you leave the country.

I've just called the guy in question and he told me that it's in his contract that the agency pays for taxes. Wouldn't such a contract signed with witnesses be enough proof that my friend didn't do any wrong and the agency would have to pay all taxes? 

 

  How could he find out if any payment was made? I've heard something about checking it online, but therefor you've got to have a valid tax number, methinks. 

 

   How does that work when an employee works in Ubon Ratchathani, but the agency is in Bangkok. I'd assume that the tax has to be paid where the workplace is, right? Thanks for any clarification. 

[pearciderman]

On 10/8/2017 at 9:49 AM, puchooay said:

A grey area. The school will say you are an agency teacher. 

 

You can't pay SS via the agency as your WP is likely in the name of the school. 

 

Go to the SS office and ask to pay the 400+ monthly payments. See what they say. 

 

That option is only available if you are within 6 months of leaving a job where you were paying, you can't just walk in and start that option.

[BuddyDean]

15 hours ago, jenny2017 said:

I've just called the guy in question and he told me that it's in his contract that the agency pays for taxes. Wouldn't such a contract signed with witnesses be enough proof that my friend didn't do any wrong and the agency would have to pay all taxes? 

 

  How could he find out if any payment was made? I've heard something about checking it online, but therefor you've got to have a valid tax number, methinks. 

 

   How does that work when an employee works in Ubon Ratchathani, but the agency is in Bangkok. I'd assume that the tax has to be paid where the workplace is, right? Thanks for any clarification. 

He doesn't even have a tax number?  That should answer most questions.  Withholding is far different than filing.  Filing is how you settle up the difference in what was withheld (and submitted), and what you owe, which is determined by how much you made.  Withholdings are a guesstimate.  The local revenue office will be very helpful....you would likely file based on your residence.  I knew some teachers, who started last October.  They were in a similar limbo.  I told them that since they only worked three months, they wouldn't owe anything, and it would be a great time to visit the Revenue Office and get your money back, or at least make sure you have a Tax ID, so it would all be good this year.  But, not only did they not have WPs, they were working on Ed Visas.  So kind of hard to come clean with Revenue, when you are actively breaking about five different laws.  They had the deductions from pay, also.

[TerryLH]

On 07/10/2017 at 10:31 AM, farang62 said:

Look it up, everyone with a work permit must pay SS as stipulated in the law.

 

this should bring out the Nay Sayers!

There are exemptions, private schools being the one in play here.  Private school employees are not able to pay SS through their employment.

If they had been employed and paying into SS for a year, then lost eligibility for any reason, they can sign up to pay on their own.  They have 6 months to do that.

 

As for having two contracts, a Thai and English version, it has been my experience that foreign teachers generally get a English version, and a Thai version is sent for the work permit.  

 

Your employer may be paying, or saying they are, your taxes, but you are ultimately the one responsible for making sure the tax form is filed every year.  

Your employer is required to give you a form showing the annual salary and all the deductions for the year.  That would include deductions for SS and taxes.

 

If you are having a problem with the deductions, or lack of them, I'd suggest contacting the Revenue or Social Security office to try and resolve the problem(s).

In the past I found both offices very helpful.

 

Terry