Shed/Store room

[Joinaman]

Hi there

thinking of building myself a block and render shed/store room to store my garden gear and tools in

size will be 3.2m x 2.2m with pitched roof

Was thinking of building it "English" style, standard single skin block walls, No concrete posts

Built on a concrete slab

Glass blocks for light, vented blocks ? to allow air flow

Pitched gable roof with timber rafters and ridge and wall plates

Color bond roof with eaves covers, fascias and gutters 

{ Needs to be gabled roof with gutters to prevent water run of to the neighbors land}

single timber door with frame

Any reason why it shouldn't be built this way ?

Is there any reason to use the concrete pots for the corners instead of standard lapped corner block work ?

Would prefer to fit timber roof, no special tools needed, but notice most people use steel. If steel roof, would need to buy welder and cut off saw

I assume that standard block work, rendered outside would be strong enough, and by using this, would not need to fit the pillars and use steel bars ? 

Any advise would be welcome, still have lots to learn about Thai way, lol

 

 Bit like this style but rendered block work with single timber door 

[jeab1980]

We built a store and  outside toilet.  Slopping roof (its our land next door  used as  a bannana orchard  and run of come leach field. Basic construction using four corner posts. Steel roof joists (someone local to you would rent out a welder and cut saw)  basic single breeze (thai block)  block wall with separated inner wall to create two rooms. Put two course of vented block on back wall of toilet but not covered metal work up so there is  plenty of air flow. Have put a guttering on to harvest water for car washing ect but nothing special.  Rendered walls in and out.  Then painted to match rest of buildings. Built an outside living area where mc's are just four posts  and roof.  Plus it protects house wall from the heat of the sun. 

Edited October 7, 2017 by jeab1980

[sirineou]

as jeab1980 did above, No need for load bearing walls and the associated foundation. Simply buy four of these  prefabricated columns with the footings on them already

dig a hole, stand them up plumb, poure a footing around them and bury them.

Then pour a concrete slab, and fill the areas between them with standard issued Thai breeze block 

 

Edited October 7, 2017 by sirineou

[Naam]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

as jeab1980 did above, No need for load bearing walls and the associated foundation. Simply buy four of these  prefabricated columns with the footings on them already

dig a hole, stand them up plumb, poure a footing around them and bury them.

Then pour a concrete slab, and fill the areas between them with standard issued Thai breeze block 

 

and replace that sorry looking piece of wire with five times the amount of steel same size as imbedded in the prefab column. i have experienced quite some Thai low-tech engineering but this is one of the "winners". if that was your builder's idea i pity you.

[jeab1980]

3 minutes ago, Naam said:

and replace that sorry looking piece of wire with five times the amount of steel same size as imbedded in the prefab column. i have experienced quite some Thai low-tech engineering but this is one of the "winners". if that was your builder's idea i pity you.

Think its more like a plumb square than a wire cage by the looks

[sirineou]

18 minutes ago, Naam said:

and replace that sorry looking piece of wire with five times the amount of steel same size as imbedded in the prefab column. i have experienced quite some Thai low-tech engineering but this is one of the "winners". if that was your builder's idea i pity you.

Not mine, Just pictures I found on the internet to illustrate the instructions

And cution in regards to Koh-samui construction 

http://koh-samui.construction/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/thai-house-column-samui-construction.jpg

= 

Edited October 7, 2017 by sirineou

[sirineou]

^^^^

if I was doing this I would put a concrete pad under the precast column  and then an other around it.

For a structure such as this, no need to go that deep, and I would bring the footing  to 30 CM below grade, than dig a 30 CM deep trench  the width of the column around the perimeter on the structure and poure a grade ring beam leaving part of the top of the steel exposed, then poure a slab tying everything together.

These prefab columns usually don't have steel in them, just some   prestressed wires. If they have steel , expose the top of the steel to weld the roof steel, If not, it is a good idea to before erecting the column to install some long anchor bolts on top of the columns,  (easier to do on the ground) you can use the bolts to level the roof if the columns are not totally level . fill any gap between roof steel and column with concrete.

Edited October 7, 2017 by sirineou

[jeab1980]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

^^^^

if I was doing this I would put a concrete pad under the precast column  and then an other around it.

Absolutely along with good steel embedded as Naam points out. 

[sirineou]

35 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Absolutely along with good steel embedded as Naam points out. 

I agree,

Steel is not the place to save money in structural elements.

I am in the processes of building a house right now, The plans call for 16 mm steel in the columns except on the second flr where it called for 12 mm steel in the columns. I guess 12mm might be adequate for columns supporting only the roof, but for the small additional cost and the peace of mind , I changed it to 16 mm

IMO Steel and concrete  is not the place to get cheap

Edited October 7, 2017 by sirineou
typo

[Joinaman]

Thanks for the replies, guys

but why the corner posts ?

having to dig and level the posts, then dig a ring beam and THEN a slab

What is the gain against just building a starndard block wall with pillars ?

 

Why not just a standard concrete slab, thickened at the perimeter

That;s all we used to do for house extensions and such

Its only single block walls , so not much weight, plus a metal roof, so again no weight to any of it

Any reason for not making standard timber roof, with timber wall plates fixed and strapped to the walls ?

I don't mind buying a welder and saw, would probably get more use than woodworking tools, but  much prefer to construct using timber, nails and screws

Surely if a proper block wall on a decent concrete base is better than a block work infill between pillars, which seem to crack at the joints anyway

But thanks for the replies, guys, much appreciated

 

And cution in regards to Koh-samui construction   _====  Just back from Kho Samui, seen some of the quality building there, lol, but nice place though

 

[jeab1980]

9 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

Thanks for the replies, guys

but why the corner posts ?

having to dig and level the posts, then dig a ring beam and THEN a slab

What is the gain against just building a starndard block wall with pillars ?

 

Why not just a standard concrete slab, thickened at the perimeter

That;s all we used to do for house extensions and such

Its only single block walls , so not much weight, plus a metal roof, so again no weight to any of it

Any reason for not making standard timber roof, with timber wall plates fixed and strapped to the walls ?

I don't mind buying a welder and saw, would probably get more use than woodworking tools, but  much prefer to construct using timber, nails and screws

Surely if a proper block wall on a decent concrete base is better than a block work infill between pillars, which seem to crack at the joints anyway

But thanks for the replies, guys, much appreciated

 

And cution in regards to Koh-samui construction   _====  Just back from Kho Samui, seen some of the quality building there, lol, but nice place though

 

You will no wood is not cheap here and for a basic shed is it worth it.  

There is a fair bit of weight  in the steel.  I use posts purley beacuse its easier and quicker and  good welding spots for roof. A single skimed block wall is plenty strong enough as its not load bearing at all.  With a good render mix there is very little cracking. 

All our  building are constructed this way and have had zero problems with cracks save the normal settling type. 

[Naam]

1 hour ago, jeab1980 said:

Think its more like a plumb square than a wire cage by the looks

what's the reason to plumb?

[jeab1980]

12 minutes ago, Naam said:

what's the reason to plumb?

Youbknowvwhat thais are like lol but no looking again its supposed to be ties lol

[Naam]

51 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I guess 12mm might be adequate for columns supporting only the roof, but for the small additional cost and the peace of mind , I changed it to 16 mm

not only the size counts but the number of rods AND, very important, their placement within the concrete. that applies especially to wide spans of 10m and more and also depends on the weight of the roof tiles. the weight of my roof tiles is förking 48 tons because when building i was stupidly adhering to the regulations of the homeowners association using concrete tiles.

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, Joinaman said:

Thanks for the replies, guys

but why the corner posts ?

having to dig and level the posts, then dig a ring beam and THEN a slab

What is the gain against just building a starndard block wall with pillars ?

 

Why not just a standard concrete slab, thickened at the perimeter

That;s all we used to do for house extensions and such

Its only single block walls , so not much weight, plus a metal roof, so again no weight to any of it

Any reason for not making standard timber roof, with timber wall plates fixed and strapped to the walls ?

I don't mind buying a welder and saw, would probably get more use than woodworking tools, but  much prefer to construct using timber, nails and screws

Surely if a proper block wall on a decent concrete base is better than a block work infill between pillars, which seem to crack at the joints anyway

But thanks for the replies, guys, much appreciated

 

And cution in regards to Koh-samui construction   _====  Just back from Kho Samui, seen some of the quality building there, lol, but nice place though

 

Ok so you will have to put down a slab anyway, and if you go with load bearing block for the wall it would have to be a raft slab and it will need at least a ring beam. A raft slab will be floating on top of clay (I assume you have clay) topsoil. Clay has a tendency to expand and contract as it gets wet. Not a stable substrate. 

and you will have to use much more expensive large block which is not the same quality as the cement block you are used to in the west that is built to strict structural codes. 

By using the very inexpensive manufactured posts you go below grade to much more stable ground that does not change its moisture content as much, in addition all load will be carried by the columns, allowing you to use the much cheaper, and adequate for your purposes, breeze block that is available everywhere, and the locals are familiar with.  in addition the  footings will support your slab and  reduce heaving and cracking.

In conclusion  IMO  the prefab. column would be a more stable, less expensive, easier option. 

When in Rome do as the Romans do

 

PS: stay away from wood as much as posible, unless you like pets (pests)  Termites say. "Aroy Mak Mak! 

Edited October 7, 2017 by sirineou
slow, stupid and cant spell LOL

[cooked]

2 hours ago, Joinaman said:

Thanks for the replies, guys

but why the corner posts ?

having to dig and level the posts, then dig a ring beam and THEN a slab

What is the gain against just building a starndard block wall with pillars ?

 

Why not just a standard concrete slab, thickened at the perimeter

That;s all we used to do for house extensions and such

Its only single block walls , so not much weight, plus a metal roof, so again no weight to any of it

Any reason for not making standard timber roof, with timber wall plates fixed and strapped to the walls ?

I don't mind buying a welder and saw, would probably get more use than woodworking tools, but  much prefer to construct using timber, nails and screws

Surely if a proper block wall on a decent concrete base is better than a block work infill between pillars, which seem to crack at the joints anyway

But thanks for the replies, guys, much appreciated

 

And cution in regards to Koh-samui construction   _====  Just back from Kho Samui, seen some of the quality building there, lol, but nice place though

 

Corner posts are used in Thailand because concrete blocks larger than 7 cm thick are difficult to get hold of. Any cross bonding at the corners would be useless with 7cm blocks. The blocks are fixed to the pillars every second or third row with short lengths of rebar. If you want a load bearing wall you might choose between a double skin wall 15/20 cm thick, reinforced and filled with concrete, expensive, and load bearing quality Q blocks, also difficult to find, which keep the heat out but are also more expensive. The Thai way is doable, the second two methods require danger money and a builder that actually knows what he is doing. 

You're going to have to have a concrete slab anyway, so why worry?

[Joinaman]

Thanks Guys

looks like i will be going with the posts 

maybe change to a mono pitch roof too, much easier than gabled roof

Just a pain digging down to solid ground, cos the land has been raised at least 800mm so maybe have to dig deep holes to get solid bases

Will set out and dig before ordering any posts, but will need another pair of hands to lift and set posts around 3.6 long

 

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, Joinaman said:

Thanks Guys

looks like i will be going with the posts 

maybe change to a mono pitch roof too, much easier than gabled roof

Just a pain digging down to solid ground, cos the land has been raised at least 800mm so maybe have to dig deep holes to get solid bases

Will set out and dig before ordering any posts, but will need another pair of hands to lift and set posts around 3.6 long

 

When I said "what I will be doing: I meant what I will be paying  someone else to do . LOL . Seriously depending where you are , labor is cheap, I would certainly not be digging the holes my self.

Good Luck , let as know how it turns out. 

Edited October 7, 2017 by sirineou

[steve187]

heres ny shed 2m x 3m built out of shera boards and steel, fairly cheap, 22m cement board for floor, and all on a 4" x 4" frame bolted to the cement floor,  up on legs a little so rain water flows under.

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by steve187

[Joinaman]

38 minutes ago, steve187 said:

heres ny shed 2m x 3m built out of shera boards and steel, fairly cheap, 22m cement board for floor, and all on a 4" x 4" frame bolted to the cement floor,  up on legs a little so rain water flows under.

 

that looks ok

What sort of price was this to build and what size steels did you use for the framing and the roofing

What did you use for the door and frame ?

 

[Crossy]

We went a different route.

 

100mm slab (you will need a floor anyway) with 4" mesh sitting on a 1m grid of 1m hex "piles" these were planted using a post hole cutter then "driven" the last foot or so by the guys bouncing on them. If your substrate is reasonably stable you should be able to do without the piles, it's not like there's a massive load.

 

Then a simple steel roof structure sitting on steel "legs". Legs have 6" square plates welded to the bottom which are anchored to the slab.

 

Fill in with rendered block.

 

 

[BEVUP]

So just a basic garden shed like mine

I have about the same measurements & all the builders did was cemented in 4 steel post (probably not to any specs).

Then they laid a slab , & just laid your normal block between them & rendered over 

Also had a Gable steel frame roof with insulated tin sheeting 

Then I made shelves from from angle (stuff with a lot of holes in it ) so it all bolts together

1/2 " Ply wood sheeting

[steve187]

5 hours ago, Joinaman said:

that looks ok

What sort of price was this to build and what size steels did you use for the framing and the roofing

What did you use for the door and frame ?

 

the door and frame was one of those metal reinforced jobs, i had bought years before, it cost about 35,000 had some one do it, the main frame work was in 4 x 4,  with smaller maybe 3 x 1 or there abouts,  to tie all together, roof was large sheets with some clear panels for daylight, really sound, no leaks, 

[Crossy]

25 minutes ago, steve187 said:

And I though my shed had a load of junk which "may come in useful one day".

 

[Naam]

10 minutes ago, Crossy said:

And I though my shed had a load of junk which "may come in useful one day".

 

fact: whenever you dispose of a piece of junk you had for years it won't be long till you regret having it thrown out!

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, Naam said:

fact: whenever you dispose of a piece of junk you had for years it won't be long till you regret having it thrown out!

Yup, usually about 30 minutes after the bin-men have been.

 

EDIT Actually, in the UK this isn't an issue as some poor souls get their bins emptied MONTHLY! The cost (in the Community Charge) is astronomical.

 

Twice a week here for a whole 350 Baht a YEAR! (It just went up from 300)

 

[sirineou]

Another fact:

Nature abhors a vacuum. 

Junk will quickly fill all available storage. making room for more junk

Physicists are trying to figure out what happened before the Big Bang.

Simple , God's  singularity got filled with too much junk and more room had to be made. 

 Which explains some of the posters and their posts, in this forum , Present company not excluded

[steve187]

31 minutes ago, Crossy said:

And I though my shed had a load of junk which "may come in useful one day".

 

  know where everything is, except the thing i am looking for right now.

[Naam]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

1 hour ago, Naam said:

fact: whenever you dispose of a piece of junk you had for years it won't be long till you regret having it thrown out!

Yup, usually about 30 minutes after the bin-men have been.

a few weeks ago our washer broke down after 11 years of (ab)use. i asked my assistant whether we should salvage some parts but he meant "nothing worth to keep". new washer was delivered, old one taken for scrap and two days later we were hunting for a 220V solenoid valve.

 

here's just one wall with parts and junk accumulated in 11 years

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Naam

[r136dg]

The only way most people part with their junk (stuff we'll certainly need in the near future) is before, during & immediately after a move. We recently did a move & I'm still making an occasional run to the recycle yard. The folks that work there wai me upon arrival;-) I find myself already starting to accumulate this stuff again but am in denial;-(

 

Of course this rule doesn't apply to hoarders.