10 hours ago, connda said:

Thanks for the chuckle.  But I answered his questions, and I'm far from being on the defensive.  I have the background and experience to back up what I'm saying.  So grab a beer, chill, and go back and read my relies.  I'm not on the defensive at all.  I've backed assertions I've made based on my professional experience.

 

And therein lies the problem.  Most of us aren't IT pros.  We're IT users, and just want something that works, is supported, and runs things like Corel Draw, AutoCAD, Photoshop and dozens of other apps that don't work on Linux, etc.  Or take so much tweaking to port over to another OS that it's cheaper to pay MS than it is to adopt any "free" OS. 

 

For us, the computer isn't the product.  I've never seen a dime of revenue shoot out of a hard drive.  (Full disclosure- I don't write code, or mine Bitcoins)  It's a tool.  To IT guys, the computer is the product.  And that's where the problems start between the guys in IT and the guys in Operations.

 

I've updated 3 personal computers to Win10, and loaded Win10 from new on another 2.  All went swimmingly except one where I'm still not "activated", and I won't bother spending the time to revert to 8.1 then back to Win 10 because the labor involved is more than the value of the netbook.  Which means I operate 5 PC's, all on Win10 and I'm a happy camper.  I tried Linux a few years back, but the support available on the interweb always started with the assumption that I knew how to root the flubus and reset all the parameters in the dark.  So I popped the $150 for Windows.  Good value.

 

I'm in the oil business, and have been for almost 40 years.  So I'm the last guy to ask if you want to know anything about environmental issues in the oil business.  I'll be as honest as I can, but I have a bias.  Just like people who dealt with MS for decades.

 

 

Have a Dell workstation that included a free upgrade from Win 7/8 to Win 10 a couple of years ago.  I changed out the graphics card from the workstation Quadro K620  to a GTX 1050 OC and mem upgrade to 36 RAM and SSD drive it boots in 10 seconds and shuts down in 3 seconds.  I put some more memory and the old Quadro K620 in an extra Aser that I use with my Sony Android TV that runs Android 6.01.  The old Aser I put a free Win 10 on and dual boot with Linux Ubuntu and use my 60 inch TV as a monitor along with the Android system.  TV stays on all the time in sleep mode so turns on and off in a couple of seconds.  I use Win 10 on my Asus laptop which has a touch screen as well as a mouse and keyboard.   Everything runs about 4 k so good pictures and a sound bar for audio.  My phones are running Marshmallow and Nougat and Kit Kat.   I can run all my computers to the big screen Sony TV because i like the processor Sony uses to convert images to HDR. I don't have any problems with Win 10.  On and off in 10 seconds and works with everything seamlessly. 

5 hours ago, amvet said:

Have a Dell workstation that included a free upgrade from Win 7/8 to Win 10 a couple of years ago.  I changed out the graphics card from the workstation Quadro K620  to a GTX 1050 OC and mem upgrade to 36 RAM and SSD drive it boots in 10 seconds and shuts down in 3 seconds.  I put some more memory and the old Quadro K620 in an extra Aser that I use with my Sony Android TV that runs Android 6.01.  The old Aser I put a free Win 10 on and dual boot with Linux Ubuntu and use my 60 inch TV as a monitor along with the Android system.  TV stays on all the time in sleep mode so turns on and off in a couple of seconds.  I use Win 10 on my Asus laptop which has a touch screen as well as a mouse and keyboard.   Everything runs about 4 k so good pictures and a sound bar for audio.  My phones are running Marshmallow and Nougat and Kit Kat.   I can run all my computers to the big screen Sony TV because i like the processor Sony uses to convert images to HDR. I don't have any problems with Win 10.  On and off in 10 seconds and works with everything seamlessly. 

Cool.  Via the poll the majority of folks have upgraded.  Interesting to hear how others are dealing with the new OS.  36G RAM and boots up in 10 seconds!  Wow.  Life is good on the 'fast bus'.  Lol  Thanks for the informative reply! 

14 hours ago, BuaBS said:

The poll seems to forget XP users !!! Still going strong on XP SP2 and will never update to win 10.

Yeah, I've seen businesses still using XP (and government offices here in the LOS).  Heck, I was an XP fan too.  Only problem is the unpleasant wake up call some of these folks may get if they are connected to the network and are hacked.  But if the systems are sandboxed or off the external net, it's still good for running legacy apps.  

20 hours ago, gamini said:

I agree entirely.  I unfortunately upgraded to win 10 and after more that a year i still cant find applications and files and I really dont know how to work it.  but how do i get win 7 back?? I bought a PC from somewhere in Pantup plaza with win 7 installed. I have no win 7 backup disk . Please help.

Can't help you there.  Perhaps start a new topic or take your system back to Pantip and get one of their techs to help you.

But once you get your OS back to how you want it, you should image the drive.  You'd probably want to find a windows based disk/partitioning program that is fairly intuitive.  I'd recommend Norton Ghost but I'm not even sure they make it anymore.  Norton Ghost 15 was an easy, intuitive imaging solution for Windows based system although pretty much limited to FAT/NTFS file systems.  Then Symantec started making suites of programs and I lost interest. I like simple, and when Symantec took over, it stopped being simple.  
Personally I moved to Clonezilla, but the interface can be a little complex looking and confusing.  But there are tutorials on how to use it on Youtube. Clonezilla is robust and handles multiple file systems.
What I'd suggest if you really are interested in creating a disk image is to start another topic and get TV members suggestions for what Windows based programs that they use to image their system.  The bottom line is: If you do something to FUBAR your system, you can always roll back to the date of your last system image.  Then if you back up your files regularly, then you just restore to most current files.  Piece of cake.  

I'll address some of connda's "issues" so that noobs needn't be put off Win 10 for these particular excuses. I speak as one familiar w/ various distributions of Linux, have dual booted (kept returning to Windows) and am currently running BunsenLabs (successor to #!) w/ Openbox WM on one of my netbooks. In response to Linux fans earlier I discussed the issues regarding Linux vs Windows here: https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/978480-really-had-enough-of-win-10/?do=findComment&comment=11820391 

and here: https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/985574-with-software-it-pays-to-be-legal/?do=findComment&comment=11962257

 

I like Linux but I like getting things done w/ certain Windows applications more and I'm not going to buy another printer just to use w/ Linux. I don't like fooling around w/ Linux when I can be posting reason, truth, and justice on TVF.

 

On 10/9/2017 at 2:25 PM, connda said:

With Linux I can choose my User Interface and as a general rule, updates to the underlying software will never drastically change the User Interface and graphical windows environment.  Pick the interface you want: GNOME, KDE, Cinnamon, or Xfce and that interface isn't going to change much.

2

 

Unity? But you're assuming that your system will boot into the WM after the update. If it won't then, yes, the terminal will be a drastic change.

 

The changes in the Windows interface can be returned to the old look via third-party utilities. Classic Shell is free. Want a Linux look? Windows 10 x64 with bbzero--could have had that through all the Win versions. How about making your Win 10 look like Ubuntu: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/07/ubuntu-theme-windows-10. Here's a kid to explain to you how to make your Win 10 look like Win98:

 

 

Change it to XP here: https://fieldguide.gizmodo.com/how-to-make-windows-10-look-like-windows-xp-1790134379

 

Happy now?

 

As for programs, many people like the change to the ribbon on Office, for example. 'Course, you can just use LibreOffice on Windows as well.

 

So this isn't really any issue--your main issue it seems.

 

On 10/9/2017 at 2:25 PM, connda said:

The Linux System Update puts Microsoft to shame.

 

Like when a program no longer works because a dependency isn't satisfied on your distribution? Solution: recompile on your own machine! Don't you love typing in those command lines? And when your computer won't boot at all after an update! Right on! :) Linux gives you the option but may not tell you what you need to know about the update and then the update may break applications or your entire system. Like trolling thru forums to find that obscure config file and editing w/ nano? OH--Kernel backups, great! In that case you pray you can find your way into the interactive menu to select your older kernel that worked. But maybe you can't. Then you can pray you can get into the terminal and run a command to roll back. But maybe you can't get that far either. So then you get out your boot disk and find and edit the grub.conf appropriately. Now geeks might find this fun & interesting. But really how's an average user even to begin? Best hope is probably a full restore from an image. Get out the Clonezilla! Uh, how recent is that image?

 

Windows? Choose Recovery/Startup repair/last known good config at bootup. Done (probably, lol).

 

Then you reach your Linux EOL (unless you're braving a rolling release) and you need to install the new version. We havin' fun yet?

 

 

On 10/9/2017 at 2:25 PM, connda said:

And performance?  My Linux OS boots up in less than a minute.  The GUI boots in 15 seconds.  On power down, the system shuts down in 10 seconds.  Now compare that to waiting for up to 5 minutes (or more) before you can start using MS Windows. 

 

Oh, it all depends. It ain't so simple.

 

Both timed from Grub Boot Menu

 

Windows 7: 24 seconds to login screen... 5 seconds to Desktop. Click Thunderbird - starts straight away

 

Linux Mint 18 Mate: 40-55 seconds (it's got a mind of it's own ;)) to login screen or Desktop (it's got a mind of it's own with that too... sometimes I see the timed login screen, other times it bypasses it. ) )

     —https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=226949#p1204630

 

You can have a lot of apps startup on your Linux to greatly slow down boot time. Besides, you can tweak the Windows startup; use hibernation; eliminate unneeded services. And all the cool people are using SSDs now and probably just suspend rather than turn off their machines. Finally, an old fart retiree has got a few extra seconds to spare anyway.

 

No big deal.

 

On 10/9/2017 at 2:25 PM, connda said:

There are so many processes competing for CPU and memory that you need some of the newest hardware available to run the Windows 10 OS.  Linux.  I have multiple computers, my oldest laptop is about 15 years old - and I have Ubuntu 14.04 running on it without a problem.  There is no comparison: the Windows OS has always been a resource hog and always will be a resource hog.

 

As noted, Windows can be tweaked or even stripped down. I run a stripped, tweaked, & pimped Win 7 on one of my lil' netbooks and it runs a lot faster and smoother than Lubuntu ever did. And you can certainly turn Linux into a resource hog. Just using KDE, for example, ain't recommended on low spec machines.

 

On 10/9/2017 at 3:43 PM, connda said:

Windows Start is not intuitive so enjoy relearning that and the file system,

 

Already addressed. Files system is still NTFS. How 'bout learning ext3? Wait! Is that what I got?

 

17 hours ago, connda said:

If it is now a wonderful cross-platform operating system, heck, I'll buy a copy too!

 

Oh. Windows has just got to run on your phone, too.   But is your desktop running Android or iOS?

 

On 10/9/2017 at 2:25 PM, connda said:

End users don't want to relearn a new User Interface every time a new version of a program or OS is rolled out.  It's exactly for this reason that I've ditched Microsoft Windows and have moved to Linux.

 

Addressed above. Seems a bit of an obsession w/ you. Too bad you didn't just find the simple answer back in your XP days; saved you all kinds of time (but not money, lol).

 

On 10/9/2017 at 2:25 PM, connda said:

Over the years my biggest gripe about Microsoft is their insistence to regularly change their User Interfaces in their Operating Systems and their programs. 

 

Good gawd! Take a chill pill, man. That was only an annoyance when Win 8 came out before it was quickly addressed by third-party utilities. You helpless or what? Rock on!

 

Win 10 does have its annoyances beyond your pointless obsession w/ the interface but those also, w/ a few exceptions, can be addressed either natively or via third-party utilities. One does have to invest a bit of time up front to get it configured and get Microsoft less in your face--but, all in all, less time than it takes to get your Linux configured.

4 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

I'll address some of connda's "issues" so that noobs needn't be put off Win 10 for these particular excuses. I speak as one familiar w/ various distributions of Linux, have dual booted (kept returning to Windows) and am currently running BunsenLabs (successor to #!) w/ Openbox WM on one of my netbooks. In response to Linux fans earlier I discussed the issues regarding Linux vs Windows here: https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/978480-really-had-enough-of-win-10/?do=findComment&comment=11820391 

and here: https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/985574-with-software-it-pays-to-be-legal/?do=findComment&comment=11962257

 

I like Linux but I like getting things done w/ certain Windows applications more and I'm not going to buy another printer just to use w/ Linux. I don't like fooling around w/ Linux when I can be posting reason, truth, and justice on TVF.

 

 

Unity? But you're assuming that your system will boot into the WM after the update. If it won't then, yes, the terminal will be a drastic change.

 

The changes in the Windows interface can be returned to the old look via third-party utilities. Classic Shell is free. Want a Linux look? Windows 10 x64 with bbzero--could have had that through all the Win versions. How about making your Win 10 look like Ubuntu: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/07/ubuntu-theme-windows-10. Here's a kid to explain to you how to make your Win 10 look like Win98:

 

 

Change it to XP here: https://fieldguide.gizmodo.com/how-to-make-windows-10-look-like-windows-xp-1790134379

 

Happy now?

 

As for programs, many people like the change to the ribbon on Office, for example. 'Course, you can just use LibreOffice on Windows as well.

 

So this isn't really any issue--your main issue it seems.

 

 

Like when a program no longer works because a dependency isn't satisfied on your distribution? Solution: recompile on your own machine! Don't you love typing in those command lines? And when your computer won't boot at all after an update! Right on! :) Linux gives you the option but may not tell you what you need to know about the update and then the update may break applications or your entire system. Like trolling thru forums to find that obscure config file and editing w/ nano? OH--Kernel backups, great! In that case you pray you can find your way into the interactive menu to select your older kernel that worked. But maybe you can't. Then you can pray you can get into the terminal and run a command to roll back. But maybe you can't get that far either. So then you get out your boot disk and find and edit the grub.conf appropriately. Now geeks might find this fun & interesting. But really how's an average user even to begin? Best hope is probably a full restore from an image. Get out the Clonezilla! Uh, how recent is that image?

 

Windows? Choose Recovery/Startup repair/last known good config at bootup. Done (probably, lol).

 

Then you reach your Linux EOL (unless you're braving a rolling release) and you need to install the new version. We havin' fun yet?

 

 

 

Oh, it all depends. It ain't so simple.

 

Both timed from Grub Boot Menu

 

Windows 7: 24 seconds to login screen... 5 seconds to Desktop. Click Thunderbird - starts straight away

 

Linux Mint 18 Mate: 40-55 seconds (it's got a mind of it's own ;)) to login screen or Desktop (it's got a mind of it's own with that too... sometimes I see the timed login screen, other times it bypasses it. ) )

     —https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=226949#p1204630

 

You can have a lot of apps startup on your Linux to greatly slow down boot time. Besides, you can tweak the Windows startup; use hibernation; eliminate unneeded services. And all the cool people are using SSDs now and probably just suspend rather than turn off their machines. Finally, an old fart retiree has got a few extra seconds to spare anyway.

 

No big deal.

 

 

As noted, Windows can be tweaked or even stripped down. I run a stripped, tweaked, & pimped Win 7 on one of my lil' netbooks and it runs a lot faster and smoother than Lubuntu ever did. And you can certainly turn Linux into a resource hog. Just using KDE, for example, ain't recommended on low spec machines.

 

 

Already addressed. Files system is still NTFS. How 'bout learning ext3? Wait! Is that what I got?

 

 

Oh. Windows has just got to run on your phone, too.   But is your desktop running Android or iOS?

 

 

Addressed above. Seems a bit of an obsession w/ you. Too bad you didn't just find the simple answer back in your XP days; saved you all kinds of time (but not money, lol).

 

 

Good gawd! Take a chill pill, man. That was only an annoyance when Win 8 came out before it was quickly addressed by third-party utilities. You helpless or what? Rock on!

 

Win 10 does have its annoyances beyond your pointless obsession w/ the interface but those also, w/ a few exceptions, can be addressed either natively or via third-party utilities. One does have to invest a bit of time up front to get it configured and get Microsoft less in your face--but, all in all, less time than it takes to get your Linux configured.

Fantastic response, could not have put it better myself.

6 hours ago, connda said:

Yeah, I've seen businesses still using XP (and government offices here in the LOS).  Heck, I was an XP fan too.  Only problem is the unpleasant wake up call some of these folks may get if they are connected to the network and are hacked.  But if the systems are sandboxed or off the external net, it's still good for running legacy apps.  

For private persons , no need for sandboxing . I'm connected 16 hour a  day to the net ( every day) , no problems . Businesses of course need to be more careful. No updates since 2011. Only Avira stopped support , now I have Avast , no problem.

 

5 hours ago, JSixpack said:

Change it to XP here: https://fieldguide.gizmodo.com/how-to-make-windows-10-look-like-windows-xp-1790134379

 

Happy now?

No not happy , the normal XP is not as nice as my XP ME ( media edition ) . Nice dual blue coloured taskbar .

22 hours ago, gamini said:

I agree entirely.  I unfortunately upgraded to win 10 and after more that a year i still cant find applications and files and I really dont know how to work it.  but how do i get win 7 back?? I bought a PC from somewhere in Pantup plaza with win 7 installed. I have no win 7 backup disk . Please help.

 

Does your PC have a brand name?

16 hours ago, pennine said:

Me too. The reason being that there was no driver for my Acer Travelmate 7730g laptop.

 

 

This is wrong. Don't assume that because there are no Windows 10 Drivers posted on their support portal, that it won't work.

It will.

People with the issue of LAN/W-LAN not working can solve that issue by disabling the card reader via the Device Manager.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows8_1_pr-networking/after-installing-81-i-can-not-turn-on-wifi/fe15c8c9-a630-4d4b-a394-3d2954c58f59?auth=1&page=2

 

PCMCIA adapters > SmartCardBus Controller

22 hours ago, gamini said:

I agree entirely.  I unfortunately upgraded to win 10 and after more that a year i still cant find applications and files and I really dont know how to work it.

3

 

Install Classic Shell. Disable Cortana (and web search). https://appuals.com/remove-cortana-and-web-search-from-windows-10-taskbar/

 

Search is then usable. But you can also install Everything & make it always visible in the system tray.  https://www.voidtools.com/downloads/. You'd want to use it w/ Win 7 anyway. You'll wonder how you lived w/o it.

 

Some of the anti Win 10 comments on this topic remind me of the original anti car brigade (red flags in front and the Amish etc) because they had to turn a wheel rather than pull a horse's rein!

Look on the Internet (Google, Forums etc) and find a solution to your minor problems.

Did some of you object to talking movies or the change from B&W to Colour TV?

 

 

1 hour ago, BuaBS said:

For private persons , no need for sandboxing . I'm connected 16 hour a  day to the net ( every day) , no problems . Businesses of course need to be more careful. No updates since 2011. Only Avira stopped support , now I have Avast , no problem.

8

 

I'd consider also using a lightweight firewall. I just use Windows Defender & do a scan weekly w/ Malwarebytes.

 

Quote

No not happy , the normal XP is not as nice as my XP ME ( media edition ) . Nice dual blue coloured taskbar .

5

 

But Win 10 can also look like XP ME (the Royale theme) via a free style:

 

https://sagorpirbd.deviantart.com/art/XP-Themes-Final-for-Win10-520345860

 

So now that's outta the way. Next.

1 hour ago, scottiejohn said:

Some of the anti Win 10 comments on this topic remind me of the original anti car brigade (red flags in front and the Amish etc) because they had to turn a wheel rather than pull a horse's rein!

Look on the Internet (Google, Forums etc) and find a solution to your minor problems.

Did some of you object to talking movies or the change from B&W to Colour TV?

1

 

 

Yep. Any OS is gonna need some configuration and so you just need to spend a little effort to find out what you need to know. Should be routine by now. Win 10 is very stable, very usable, and here to stay for the long haul. It ain't no Vista or Windows ME, both of which I skipped. I tend not to jump on bandwagons and I was happy w/ my XP. I did, unlike some of our "bleeding edge" forum members then, suspect Vista would be another Win Me debacle—and so it was.

 

That said, I actually don't care what OS anybody uses. If you're happy, I'm happy. You want my advice, I'll give it if I'm in a posting mood. What I don't like is unobjective, tendentious, or fallacious arguments that promulgate nonsense and mislead people. But I enjoy having a laugh at them.

13 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

I actually don't care what OS anybody uses. If you're happy, I'm happy. You want my advice, I'll give it if I'm in a posting mood. What I don't like is unobjective, tendentious, or fallacious arguments that promulgate nonsense and mislead people. But I enjoy having a laugh at them.

JSixpack;  You keep beating me to say what I was thinking, but you do it so much better than I can do, so I will leave you to make the obvious even more obvious to those who will not see!

On 10/10/2017 at 7:29 PM, connda said:

Actually, please post any new articles you can find that show the advantages of Windows 10. 
I said before, up to the user, but make an informed choice.  So Scottlejohn, help the undecided with links showing the advantages of Windows 10.  I'd like to see them because I'd like to see how Microsoft is currently addressing the initial problems with Windows 10.  If it is now a wonderful cross-platform operating system, heck, I'll buy a copy too! 

 

 

 

 

So disingenuous. You can of course find positive recommendations for Win 10 if you wanted to. Why post old links and play games?

 

Sigh. Here're a few first hits:

 

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3186869/microsoft-windows/thinking-about-switching-to-windows-10-nows-the-time-to-act.html

http://home.bt.com/tech-gadgets/computing/should-i-upgrade-to-windows-10-11364030350463

http://www.techadvisor.co.uk/feature/windows/should-i-upgrade-windows-10-3618139/

https://computertutorflorida.com/2017/06/is-it-time-for-you-to-upgrade-to-windows-10/

http://www.pressconnects.com/story/money/2017/06/08/if-you-havent-already-upgrade-windows-10/377820001/

But you've begged the question rather than made any point while innocently pretending to seek information. Win 10, like its predecessors—like Linux—doesn't have to be cross platform or perfect to be desirable. Reading all the problems with Linux constantly posted on the Linux forums should disabuse any noob of the idea that Linux is going to offer the perfection lacking in Windows. I like Linux but I don't have any illusions about it. Maybe in 5 years or so when my current printer has died and Linux & Linux apps have matured even more (they've come incredibly far—I applaud all the progress) I'll change to Linux myself.

 

IT professional for 20 years now upgraded to windows 10 on day one.. not a single problem on my 5 computers at home likely by now over 50 other systems built or upgraded to windows 10

 

just disable cortana and all the crap during install if you can read.

also, everyone with Windows 10 should download Classic Start Menu from http://www.classicshell.net/downloads/

as the regular metro user interface is trash

 

my friend decided to keep Metro and every time he can't find something he asks me to remotely assist him and I get a headache just thinking about it.

31 minutes ago, kekalot said:

also, everyone with Windows 10 should download Classic Start Menu from http://www.classicshell.net/downloads/

as the regular metro user interface is trash

 

And that's the major problem with Win 10 , you don't want that crap, if you do not know how to install the classic start menu, you just feel lost. 

 

Reason enough for me not to upgrade , as long my old OS is still supported . 

 

12 hours ago, JSixpack said:

The changes in the Windows interface can be returned to the old look via third-party utilities. Classic Shell is free.

 

I've made my Win 10 desktop look pretty much like XP, did the same with Win 7, without a 3rd party program.  Ok, so I can put the desktop icons anywhere, as opposed to being restricted to the left of the screen - uh oh, too much to handle for some people?  Click the Start in the lower left -- OMG, it's not the same icon!  And that new Start panel, how am I supposed to figure THAT out?!?  Other than these terrible changes, if you looked over my shoulder you wouldn't be able to tell I'm running Win 10.  There is plenty of info on the web about turning off the various innovative features of 10, just like there was with Win 7 (Vista?  wassat?  )  All that stuff about Win 10 phoning home can be turned off.  I hate that I can't turn off auto-updates without having to shut down the system service.  Just do a little research, take a few hours and do what has to be done, and there you are, just like it takes to figure out any new gadget. 

I used to work on/with Xwindows, the original GUI for Unix.  You have an icon on your desktop, you double-click it and it brings up a program.  KISS -- keep it simple, stupid! -- and I do.  In various internet places (before wifi caught on) I used  Aero, and whatever else MS had to offer, and didn't see anything I thought would improve my computer interaction.

My current laptop came with 10 pre-installed, and have had only a small fraction of the problems I hear about on the net.  Seems most of the reported problems are from the people who ran the upgrade.  My advice: save all your work, or partition your disk and keep your own stuff off the C: partition, and do a clean install of 10.

 

And now for Linux:  I always keep my machines dual-boot.  I went to install Ubuntu in Spring 2011 (don't ask which release) and I absolutely hated the new interface, couldn't get the hang of it.  I found out they were trying to imitate the iPhone interface, something I'm unfamiliar with.  Thank goodness saner distros like Mint came along.

This is not meant to be Linux bashing, but whenever I boot up Linux I can't just jump into what I want to do without having to fiddle with something or other.  Ok, maybe if I brought it up more often and ran the updates at tighter intervals things would be easier.  But I want an OS, I'm not looking for a hobby.  There was an old piece of Unix sarcasm: "what do you expect from an OS made the the telephone company?"  With Linux, well, it's free so stop complaining.

 

 

 

 

 

On 10/10/2017 at 10:29 PM, connda said:

Actually, please post any new articles you can find that show the advantages of Windows 10. 
I said before, up to the user, but make an informed choice.  So Scottlejohn, help the undecided with links showing the advantages of Windows 10.  I'd like to see them because I'd like to see how Microsoft is currently addressing the initial problems with Windows 10.  If it is now a wonderful cross-platform operating system, heck, I'll buy a copy too! 

 

Here you could find some articles YOU may not like:

 

www.techadvisor.co.uk

https://www.pcmag.com

http://home.bt.com/tech-gadgets/computing/should-i-upgrade-to-windows-10-11364030350463

https://www.howtogeek.com/

https://www.windowscentral.com/top-20-reasons-why-upgrade-windows-10

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2016/mar/31/why-should-i-upgrade-from-microsoft-windows-7-to-10

http://www.zdnet.com/

ad infinitum ad nauseam................... 

 

Knock yourself out.

 

Oooops.......scolling backwards I see some sites have already been mentioned. Thank you JSixpack.

 

 

 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

 

So disingenuous. You can of course find positive recommendations for Win 10 if you wanted to. Why post old links and play games?

 

Sigh. Here're a few first hits:

 

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3186869/microsoft-windows/thinking-about-switching-to-windows-10-nows-the-time-to-act.html

http://home.bt.com/tech-gadgets/computing/should-i-upgrade-to-windows-10-11364030350463

http://www.techadvisor.co.uk/feature/windows/should-i-upgrade-windows-10-3618139/

https://computertutorflorida.com/2017/06/is-it-time-for-you-to-upgrade-to-windows-10/

http://www.pressconnects.com/story/money/2017/06/08/if-you-havent-already-upgrade-windows-10/377820001/

But you've begged the question rather than made any point while innocently pretending to seek information. Win 10, like its predecessors—like Linux—doesn't have to be cross platform or perfect to be desirable. Reading all the problems with Linux constantly posted on the Linux forums should disabuse any noob of the idea that Linux is going to offer the perfection lacking in Windows. I like Linux but I don't have any illusions about it. Maybe in 5 years or so when my current printer has died and Linux & Linux apps have matured even more (they've come incredibly far—I applaud all the progress) I'll change to Linux myself.

 

 connda seems to be a little one eyed when it comes to reality - there is no perfect system. But I think the commercial world probably runs more Windows systems on their 'terminals' for their day to day operations than any other system/s. There is a huge cost in procurement and training to change. And despite the 'tiles' of Win10 the screen can be set up to look similar to Win7 and its predecessors (if your not using touch screen).

8 hours ago, kekalot said:

IT professional for 20 years now upgraded to windows 10 on day one.. not a single problem on my 5 computers at home likely by now over 50 other systems built or upgraded to windows 10

 

just disable cortana and all the crap during install if you can read.

also, everyone with Windows 10 should download Classic Start Menu from http://www.classicshell.net/downloads/

as the regular metro user interface is trash

 

my friend decided to keep Metro and every time he can't find something he asks me to remotely assist him and I get a headache just thinking about it.

 

Thta's pretty much my experience too.  The people who seem to have the most trouble with Windows 10 are the ones who are too smart to even try it.  I have Windows 10 on a half dozen machines and haven't had any real problems except that it makes older Atom-based netbooks run painfully slowly.

 

14 hours ago, balo said:

Reason enough for me not to upgrade , as long my old OS is still supported . 

Support and updates are far over rated . Keep your "old OS" as long as you like and the computer hardware works.

On 10/11/2017 at 2:28 PM, JSixpack said:

I'll address some of connda's "issues" so that noobs needn't be put off Win 10 for these particular excuses. I speak as one familiar w/ various distributions of Linux, have dual booted (kept returning to Windows) and am currently running BunsenLabs (successor to #!) w/ Openbox WM on one of my netbooks. In response to Linux fans earlier I discussed the issues regarding Linux vs Windows here: https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/978480-really-had-enough-of-win-10/?do=findComment&comment=11820391 

and here: https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/985574-with-software-it-pays-to-be-legal/?do=findComment&comment=11962257

 

I like Linux but I like getting things done w/ certain Windows applications more and I'm not going to buy another printer just to use w/ Linux. I don't like fooling around w/ Linux when I can be posting reason, truth, and justice on TVF.

 

 

Unity? But you're assuming that your system will boot into the WM after the update. If it won't then, yes, the terminal will be a drastic change.

 

The changes in the Windows interface can be returned to the old look via third-party utilities. Classic Shell is free. Want a Linux look? Windows 10 x64 with bbzero--could have had that through all the Win versions. How about making your Win 10 look like Ubuntu: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/07/ubuntu-theme-windows-10. Here's a kid to explain to you how to make your Win 10 look like Win98:

 

 

Change it to XP here: https://fieldguide.gizmodo.com/how-to-make-windows-10-look-like-windows-xp-1790134379

 

Happy now?

 

As for programs, many people like the change to the ribbon on Office, for example. 'Course, you can just use LibreOffice on Windows as well.

 

So this isn't really any issue--your main issue it seems.

 

 

Like when a program no longer works because a dependency isn't satisfied on your distribution? Solution: recompile on your own machine! Don't you love typing in those command lines? And when your computer won't boot at all after an update! Right on! :) Linux gives you the option but may not tell you what you need to know about the update and then the update may break applications or your entire system. Like trolling thru forums to find that obscure config file and editing w/ nano? OH--Kernel backups, great! In that case you pray you can find your way into the interactive menu to select your older kernel that worked. But maybe you can't. Then you can pray you can get into the terminal and run a command to roll back. But maybe you can't get that far either. So then you get out your boot disk and find and edit the grub.conf appropriately. Now geeks might find this fun & interesting. But really how's an average user even to begin? Best hope is probably a full restore from an image. Get out the Clonezilla! Uh, how recent is that image?

 

Windows? Choose Recovery/Startup repair/last known good config at bootup. Done (probably, lol).

 

Then you reach your Linux EOL (unless you're braving a rolling release) and you need to install the new version. We havin' fun yet?

 

 

 

Oh, it all depends. It ain't so simple.

 

Both timed from Grub Boot Menu

 

Windows 7: 24 seconds to login screen... 5 seconds to Desktop. Click Thunderbird - starts straight away

 

Linux Mint 18 Mate: 40-55 seconds (it's got a mind of it's own ;)) to login screen or Desktop (it's got a mind of it's own with that too... sometimes I see the timed login screen, other times it bypasses it. ) )

     —https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=226949#p1204630

 

You can have a lot of apps startup on your Linux to greatly slow down boot time. Besides, you can tweak the Windows startup; use hibernation; eliminate unneeded services. And all the cool people are using SSDs now and probably just suspend rather than turn off their machines. Finally, an old fart retiree has got a few extra seconds to spare anyway.

 

No big deal.

 

 

As noted, Windows can be tweaked or even stripped down. I run a stripped, tweaked, & pimped Win 7 on one of my lil' netbooks and it runs a lot faster and smoother than Lubuntu ever did. And you can certainly turn Linux into a resource hog. Just using KDE, for example, ain't recommended on low spec machines.

 

 

Already addressed. Files system is still NTFS. How 'bout learning ext3? Wait! Is that what I got?

 

 

Oh. Windows has just got to run on your phone, too.   But is your desktop running Android or iOS?

 

 

Addressed above. Seems a bit of an obsession w/ you. Too bad you didn't just find the simple answer back in your XP days; saved you all kinds of time (but not money, lol).

 

 

Good gawd! Take a chill pill, man. That was only an annoyance when Win 8 came out before it was quickly addressed by third-party utilities. You helpless or what? Rock on!

 

Win 10 does have its annoyances beyond your pointless obsession w/ the interface but those also, w/ a few exceptions, can be addressed either natively or via third-party utilities. One does have to invest a bit of time up front to get it configured and get Microsoft less in your face--but, all in all, less time than it takes to get your Linux configured.

Nice reply.  Just one comment regarding getting back to square one if an update or application FUBARs your system.  Windows System Restore can leave you with your proverbial pants down or sometimes, for whatever reason, it just doesn't function.  Been there, more than once.  Opps!  Like the South Park episode, "And It's Gone!!!"  I'll take a Linux solution anyday of the week.  My backup files don't just magically disappear when you need them.  Is Linux less intuitive than Windows.  Yep.  But looking at the poll, I'm somewhere in the 2% range of how others approach MS products.  So I'm three standard deviations out and an oddity.  Not the first time in my life.  <laughs>  
Again.  I ran the poll out of curiosity.  Now I know.  I'm not going to berate anyone, especially the majority of users who are happy with the product.  Good for ya'll!

20 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

 

So disingenuous. You can of course find positive recommendations for Win 10 if you wanted to. Why post old links and play games?

 

Sigh. Here're a few first hits:

 

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3186869/microsoft-windows/thinking-about-switching-to-windows-10-nows-the-time-to-act.html

http://home.bt.com/tech-gadgets/computing/should-i-upgrade-to-windows-10-11364030350463

http://www.techadvisor.co.uk/feature/windows/should-i-upgrade-windows-10-3618139/

https://computertutorflorida.com/2017/06/is-it-time-for-you-to-upgrade-to-windows-10/

http://www.pressconnects.com/story/money/2017/06/08/if-you-havent-already-upgrade-windows-10/377820001/

But you've begged the question rather than made any point while innocently pretending to seek information. Win 10, like its predecessors—like Linux—doesn't have to be cross platform or perfect to be desirable. Reading all the problems with Linux constantly posted on the Linux forums should disabuse any noob of the idea that Linux is going to offer the perfection lacking in Windows. I like Linux but I don't have any illusions about it. Maybe in 5 years or so when my current printer has died and Linux & Linux apps have matured even more (they've come incredibly far—I applaud all the progress) I'll change to Linux myself.

 

"So disingenuous. You can of course find positive recommendations for Win 10 if you wanted to. Why post old links and play games?"

I always find it mildly interesting when someone can discern my intentions better than I can myself?  Nope.  Not being disingenuous nor playing games.  Just asking other's opinions.  Thanks for the replies.  Good information!  

I've got to admit that I managed to accomplish one thing.  Look at all the concise information regarding how to configure Windows 10 now in one place.  Personally I'm going to keep this bookmarked.  Good stuff.  
At some point in time (after Jan 2020) I'm probably going to shell out the $$$ to purchase a copy of Win 1x<whatever> in order to run the legacy Windows programs that I need.  I could probably find workarounds but KISS is my friend.

 

For everyone who for some reason believes I have an agenda?  I don't.  Smile.  It ain't about you friends.  

Thanks much for the informative replies and the poll contributions. Even the relatively sarcastic replies most often contained excellent information.  It's all good!   

I just turned Cortana off that was cool thanks.  I didn't like bing intruding all the time.

4 hours ago, connda said:

Just one comment regarding getting back to square one if an update or application FUBARs your system.  Windows System Restore can leave you with your proverbial pants down or sometimes, for whatever reason, it just doesn't function.  Been there, more than once.  Opps!  Like the South Park episode, "And It's Gone!!!"

2

 

Read carefully. I said, Done (probably, lol). A reasonable likelihood is quite good & convenient. In the event it doesn't work, same as those arcane Linux commands might not work—after you look them up on a working machine and type them in—then Windows gives you other non-arcane options of course.

 

But here we have to pause and wonder how is it possible that a self-professed expert, a Microsoft System Professional and a Microsoft System Engineer and an Information Technology / Computer Technology professional with 24 years of experience . . .  our company's liaison with our Microsoft Premier Support contacts," just isn't aware of any other options. If you don't know what you're doing and you don't find out, then of course "Opps! And It's Gone!!!" Suddenly we gotta question whether "I have the background and experience to back up what I'm saying" isn't mere bluster.

 

Yeah, so if System Restore don't work then you simply go to one or more of

 

• sfc /scannow
• System Repair
• Repair Reinstall.

In that order. And then: "Ahhh. It's Back!!!" Time for a cold one.

 

Quote

I'll take a Linux solution anyday of the week.  My backup files don't just magically disappear when you need them. 

 

I won't; I been there. If you don't know much about Windows solutions then Linux solutions start looking better of course. If your backup files disappear under Windows, they can just as well disappear under Linux. That happens when you don't know what backup really means or perhaps you just forgot where they are. So let's not mislead our esteemed forum members on that point. Me, I've never had any backup files disappear except on old CDs. Back when CD-RWs came out, they were supposed to last, like, forever. Ha. We all know better now. However, turned out I didn't need that old stuff anyway.

 

4 hours ago, connda said:

"So disingenuous. You can of course find positive recommendations for Win 10 if you wanted to. Why post old links and play games?"

I always find it mildly interesting when someone can discern my intentions better than I can myself?  Nope.  Not being disingenuous nor playing games.  Just asking other's opinions.

 

 

Blowing smoke and not addressing the issue. The question isn't whether you can discern your own intentions ('course, maybe you can't--some folks are just that oblivious I do believe) but rather whether you're presenting them honestly in your posts. In the post to which I referred you had deliberately given outdated information and were then pretending you needed a forum member to find later, positive info for you.

 

But "a Microsoft System Professional and a Microsoft System Engineer and an Information Technology / Computer Technology professional with 24 years of experience . . .  our company's liaison with our Microsoft Premier Support contacts" is utterly capable, by himself, of typing in "Update to Windows 10" in a Google search field and adjusting the date to the past year or the past six months. And you could do the same with "Windows 10 vs. Windows 7." You know that; we all know that.

 

5 hours ago, connda said:

Is Linux less intuitive than Windows.  Yep.

1

 

But your major complaint is that the Windows interface has become progressively less intuitive and you even contend that it's led to less productivity. Huh? Not that you have any agenda of course.

 

That's an issue w/ Linux but not the initial showstopper for most. The big issues are that it doesn't support (even with Wine) the applications people prefer, including all the games; lacks drivers to support all the hardware; and it wastes too much time by requiring constant fiddling from installation all the way to EOL. Linux fanboys like to tout better stability, but that was then and this now. I was kinda shocked when Linux Mint 17 often froze on me. I think it didn't like my graphics or sound card, but it happened when I opened a lot of Firefox tabs--sometimes!

 

But there are a lot of comparisons of Windows vs. Linux on the 'net. You may find many of them don't even mention less intuitive. It's something people find out once they try to do anything w/ Linux beyond the basics. Maybe just slightly beyond the basics. Wanna install Skype? Of course. Uh--it's not in Synaptic. Here's what you gotta go through: https://www.wikihow.com/Install-Skype-in-Ubuntu. And you can expect a lot more of that. Oh--gotta add a repository, type the sudo add-apt-repository xxxx. What? sudo: add-apt-repository: command not found. Dig up the solution & fix that. Then—whoops, can't find that repository. Or if so, whoops, version isn't compatible w/ something, missing dependencies, etc. And so it goes on and on. Not always, of course, but often enough so that it's just more time & effort than a normal person wants to spend on something that's a lot faster & easier in Windows.