Who is responsible for the TM 30?

[PoorSucker]

Suratthani immigration let me do it myself online. 

Just needed to print out a receipt for my annual extension. 

 

This is specific for Surat only, you register your home as 'home' on the same site as the hotels do. 

[brewsterbudgen]

Yep! Thanks for that fantastic input. The question is, though. How long time is that going to be a fact?

Anyway, I will think about it during the next time I sit in front of the pool in the back of my garden doing my TM30, breathing fresh air and opening my first beer. [emoji2]

Thanks for your reply. I don't know how long it won't be required and it would be nice if other offices followed the main office's example and did not enforce it, as was done in the past. Enjoy the fresh air and beer. We have pools and beer too, but no TM30, even though the air is horrible.

 

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[elviajero]

23 hours ago, JimGant said:

I don't find that in any of the definitions in the Immigration Act. Could you point to your source -- or are you just reading between the lines (which, admittedly, are scraggly when you deal in translation and semantics).

Immigration Act, Section 4:
“House Master” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

The Immigration Act is not designating who the "house-master" is. It is simply confirming that whoever the house-master is, “in accordance with the law on people act", they are responsible to report. 


"House-master" is the translation of ‘Jao-Baan' in Thai, which I think is better translated as the 'head of household'. 


All Thais are supposed to be registered, in the Tabian Baan (house registration book) of the address they actually live at, under "the law on people act". One of the occupants, named in the Tabian Baan, is considered the 'Jao-Baan'. It is usually the owner, but in the absence of the owner being registered as living at the property the title would fall to the registered occupant considered to be the ‘head of household’ (house-master).

 

Section 38 of the Immigration Act lists three possible entities that could be responsible for reporting.
 House-master just being one. There are several combinations of who is liable to report, which presumably was deliberate to ensure a report is made by someone. 

1. The house-master (means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house ... in accordance with the law on people act.)
2. The owner.
3. The possessor.


I am pretty sure that the law, when written 38 years ago, didn’t intend for foreigners to be reporting themselves. But if a foreigner is the owner, or considered to be the possessor of the property (a tenant could easily be classed as being in possession of the property), they qualify as being responsible to report, and liable for the penalties for not reporting. 

[bazza73]

Situation update:

 

Went to Chiang Mai Immigration with the visa agents, extension done, multiple re-entry permit done. No mention of a TM30 or a fine. I can only assume the visa agents are so well connected it did not arise.

I will be talking to the landlord's agent, however. I don't care if it is him or me that does it, as long as it is done.

Thread can be closed now if mods see fit.

[YetAnother]

On 10/12/2017 at 9:31 PM, bazza73 said:

Who is responsible? The landlord ( never here ), his agent, or the condo staff?

Do I have any responsibility for the TM30? I certainly don't consider I should be paying any fine.

have sympathy for your scenario , however, look around, this is thailand, how many thais do you see or hear of or have ever heard of that take responsibility;

for them it is a loss of face, which they will never do;

sorry bud, you get the bill; not fair i know

[bazza73]

4 minutes ago, YetAnother said:

have sympathy for your scenario , however, look around, this is thailand, how many thais do you see or hear of or have ever heard of that take responsibility;

for them it is a loss of face, which they will never do;

sorry bud, you get the bill; not fair i know

See update

[Maestro]

On 17/10/2017 at 3:04 PM, elviajero said:

But if a foreigner is the owner, or considered to be the possessor of the property (a tenant could easily be classed as being in possession of the property), they qualify as being responsible to report, and liable for the penalties for not reporting. 

 

"Possessor (ผู้ครอบครอง)" is not defined in the Immigration Act and is not used in the Civil Registration Act, but the latter – and also the Civil and Commercial Code – use the verb ครอบครอง (possess) as part of the definition of House Master (เจ้าบ้าน)

 

The tenant of a leased residence is, in the practical and legal sense, definitely the chief possessor as used in the definition of House Master in the Immigration Act and the possessor as used in section 38, and immigration officials use this accordingly when fining the tenant for the delayed submission of the form TM.30. I see no way that a judge could find a tenant not guilty if such case were brought to court (but as if often the case, ask three different lawyers and you get five different opinions)

[rumak]

On 10/13/2017 at 1:03 AM, NanLaew said:

They make it all up as they go along and some get slapped with a fine whilst others go happily on their way, with wallets not unnecessarily tapped and totally unaware how close they were to circling sharks. No definable criteria such as age, height, haircut, nationality, personal hygiene, dress, Thai language ability, signs of visible wealth or lack thereof, depth or length of wai or preemptively stacking the tip-jar with colored paper has been positively identified as guaranteeing not leaving the office a bit poorer.

HAHAHA.........this should be mandatory reading on the many, many,many   tm30 posts on this forum.

Won't do any good...as i'm sure my answers are ignored or debated... but good for a laugh !