SURVEY: Brexit -- Good or Bad Idea?

[dundee48]

2 minutes ago, LaoPo said:

 

What a simple answer; you never come up with better arguments, just denying the input of others or their sources.

 

You don't even take the time to search for yourself; you just give cheap answers that the reports from others are bull...

 

Is this better and acceptable for you? If not, you'd better come up with facts instead of cheap Charlie answers.

 

More than 86,000 NHS posts vacant, says report

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/health-40715955

 

Worst nurse shortage ever as NHS exodus leads to fears for patient safety with record 40,000 vacancies unfilled

Source: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/worst-nurse-shortage-ever-nhs-11118667

 

There are SO many news sources, writing about the shortages of nurses and other jobs that I could go on.

But you deny everything but don't come up with anything yourself.

 

You're too lazy....

 

Hahahahaha.

[oldhippy]

33 minutes ago, dundee48 said:

Hahahahaha.

That reply will teach 'them' a lesson!

[George Feedback]

On 10/17/2017 at 8:06 AM, taipeir said:

Total fantasy. Willful misdirection from the shambles of the weak May government .

 

The UK government needs to pay up monies owed and deal with the UK/Irish border and citizens rights. They are core issues eventl for the UK side.

 

Tories are busy fighting each other in the newspapers not negotiating.

 

 

Leader of the Leave campaign....

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/vote-leave-brexit-chief-dominic-cummings-disaster-eu-european-union-theresa-may-david-davis-a8002426.html

 

'

The so-called brains behind Brexit who called Brexit Secretary David Davis “thick as mince” has taken a new stab at the Government for its alleged failings in leaving the EU.

 

Dominic Cummings told Prospect that Theresa May and Mr Davis "have provided a case study of grotesque uselessness" in the way they are dealing with the Brexit process.

 

The mastermind behind Vote Leave added that negotiations were in a "dire state" and the UK is close to messing up the talks completely. '

 

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

The fantasy is the EU can fill the hole in the their budget. Reckless waste and incompetent  financial planning combined with irresponsible expansion and funding of new member states without  regard to income.

Plus the crazy Shenzhen movement of workers tied to the Single Market, Customs Union and ECJ.

There is NO bill to pay. We have been ripped off for 40 years and the whole reason we joing has been overtaken by a maniacal obsession to  rule Europe by Bureaucracy, since force of arms has failed in the past.

 

Step back, and take a long look.

 

Corbyn was a Eurosceptic for 35 years, and, but for the Red Ed episode would still be on the back benches. Labour are a mess, in fighting, sackings from the shadow cabinet, Abbott's maths, and more plots than a soap opera.

 

 

 

 

[dundee48]

15 minutes ago, George Feedback said:

The fantasy is the EU can fill the hole in the their budget. Reckless waste and incompetent  financial planning combined with irresponsible expansion and funding of new member states without  regard to income.

Plus the crazy Shenzhen movement of workers tied to the Single Market, Customs Union and ECJ.

There is NO bill to pay. We have been ripped off for 40 years and the whole reason we joing has been overtaken by a maniacal obsession to  rule Europe by Bureaucracy, since force of arms has failed in the past.

 

Step back, and take a long look.

 

Corbyn was a Eurosceptic for 35 years, and, but for the Red Ed episode would still be on the back benches. Labour are a mess, in fighting, sackings from the shadow cabinet, Abbott's maths, and more plots than a soap opera.

 

 

 

 

Sshhh,even Jeremy Corbyn has forgotten about his principles.He wouldn`t last 2 minutes as leader of the Liebor party if he actually put forward his own principles (he`s not stupid).

Liebor,the party that wants to abolish the referendum result(with or without a second,third,how ever many it takes to get the correct result)

Corbyn,a man of principles.

Hahahahahahahahh.

Edited November 7, 2017 by dundee48

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

18 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

For which they should be very grateful.

Indeed!

And the sooner the UK leaves this EU nonsense the better.

 

 

[hawker9000]

5 minutes ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Indeed!

And the sooner the UK leaves this EU nonsense the better.

 

 

Like Europe really ever needed another layer of bureaucracy in the first place...

[Khun Han]

37 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

Like Europe really ever needed another layer of bureaucracy in the first place...

 

Bingo!

[simoh1490]

7 hours ago, LaoPo said:

 

You know, it's no problem if you criticise me or the opinion of others writing about facts, since the exodus of specialised nurses and construction people is a fact and it remains to be seen if Brits are able to fill the gaps.

 

The problem is that you don't come up with facts, proving the opposite.

 

 

It has always been a feature of the Brexit/Remain argument that the brexit camp could almost never produce meaningful statistics or data to support their arguments, this is especially true of current and historic data and even truer when it comes to their model for the future - it'll be OK on the day, is their moto, or so it seems.

[Khun Han]

7 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

It has always been a feature of the Brexit/Remain argument that the brexit camp could almost never produce meaningful statistics or data to support their arguments, this is especially true of current and historic data and even truer when it comes to their model for the future - it'll be OK on the day, is their moto, or so it seems.

 

Sorry, but the above post is plain rubbish. Brexiters produce actual statistics of how the economy is performing. Remainers produce predictions by biased/discredited organisations, and exaggerate those predictions exponentially. Hell, most of them are still in denial that their discredited economic forecasters got it totally wrong about post-referendum Britain. I've lost count of the number of times I've been asked for evidence that said forecasters forecast what they forecast.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

It has always been a feature of the Brexit/Remain argument that the brexit camp could almost never produce meaningful statistics or data to support their arguments, this is especially true of current and historic data and even truer when it comes to their model for the future - it'll be OK on the day, is their moto, or so it seems.

The fact so far is the doom and gloom prediction of the Remain lot has been proven wrong.

The drop in the pound will help exports, and the chance to make our own trade deals with the rest of the world is an opportunity not a disadvantage, to say nothing of the money saved.

Looking outside the EU box is the view for the future the UK needs.

A trade deal with the US, with a bigger market than the EU, and China etc is where the UK is now looking and belongs.

The question of the NHS staffing problems is irrelevant as most come from outside the EU.

Have a look at the figures.

Why everyone ignores the simple fact visas and work permits will still be available is simply unbelievable...

 

 

 

 

[simoh1490]

Just now, Khun Han said:

 

Sorry, but the above post is plain rubbish. Brexiters produce actual statistics of how the economy is performing. Remainers produce predictions by biased/discredited organisations, and exaggerate those predictions exponentially. Hell, most of them are still in denial that their discredited economic forecasters got it totally wrong about post-referendum Britain. I've lost count of the number of times I've been asked for evidence that said forecasters forecast what they forecast.

If you do some research you'll see the only thing the remain got seriously wrong in their forecasts was the timescales, the impact and extent statements were pretty much spot on - the Pound fell; the FTSE rose (falsely) because of the devalued Pound and overseas earnings; inflation increased; political uncertainty increased hugely; recession didn't take hold but it's still early days; and unemployment didn't take fall as predicted, yet. 

 

It's simple enough to produce reliable stats. showing the economic impact of what will happen if you remove something and that's pretty much what happened before the vote, heck, everyone was doing it and most of them were correct because it's basic economics. What is far harder to do is guess (or forecast) the future based on a model that can't be accurately defined but if you tell me the Brexit camp produce statistics on that, I'll be pleased to see them.

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

The fact so far is the doom and gloom prediction of the Remain lot has been proven wrong.

The drop in the pound will help exports, and the chance to make our own trade deals with the rest of the world is an opportunity not a disadvantage, to say nothing of the money saved.

Looking outside the EU box is the view for the future the UK needs.

A trade deal with the US, with a bigger market than the EU, and China etc is where the UK is now looking and belongs.

The question of the NHS staffing problems is irrelevant as most come from outside the EU.

Have a look at the figures.

Why everyone ignores the simple fact visas and work permits will still be available is simply unbelievable...

 

 

 

 

1

"The drop in the pound will help exports" - in theory, that's true, in practice it's not working out that way: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/08/uk-exports-eu-weak-pound-trade-europe

 

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

What is far harder to do is guess (or forecast) the future based on a model that can't be accurately defined but if you tell me the Brexit camp produce statistics on that, I'll be pleased to see them

Says it all really:

Stay got it wrong.

Leave have yet to be proved correct.

I know who I am betting on.

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

14 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

"The drop in the pound will help exports" - in theory, that's true, in practice it's not working out that way: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/08/uk-exports-eu-weak-pound-trade-europe

 

 

Please do NOT quote the Grauinad,

Completely biased rubbish.

I don't quote the Express or Mail.

 

Edited November 7, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Says it all really:

Stay got it wrong.

Leave have yet to be proved correct.

I know who I am betting on.

 

As a group you haven't produced any statistics or economic models, all you do is tell everyone that the models and statistics produced by the remain group are wrong, that and play word games just like you're doing here! Indeed, leave has yet to be proved correct, correct about what is the mystery though! At some point you'll no doubt jump up and down and shout, I told you so, we were right, claiming that some future event was long in your master plan, the one that nobody has ever seen!

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Please do NOT quote the Grauinad,

Completely biased rubbish.

 

 

And that's another feature of Brexiteers, when an article or set of numbers is put forward to support an argument by the remain camp, it's always exactly what you just wrote in your post above, we think the source is biased, we don't like them so we won't believe them, go find something else that we will believe. There's never a hint of Brexiteers saying, OK, but here's a different data set that shows you're wrong and we're right, it's always, that's rubbish we don't believe it, go get something else to show us, next! It's nonsense, utter utter nonsense.

[simoh1490]

If you have an economic model that details why Brexit is economically good for the UK, please show it to us, even if it's not 100% complete or overly sophisticated.

 

If you have supportable, valid, unemotional and logical arguments, based on fact, describing why Brexit is better for the UK than the remain option, please put them forward.

 

Personally, despite asking for those things from you and others on this forum over many months, I've yet to see anything remotely credible.

[Khun Han]

14 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

If you do some research you'll see the only thing the remain got seriously wrong in their forecasts was the timescales, the impact and extent statements were pretty much spot on - the Pound fell; the FTSE rose (falsely) because of the devalued Pound and overseas earnings; inflation increased; political uncertainty increased hugely; recession didn't take hold but it's still early days; and unemployment didn't take fall as predicted, yet. 

 

It's simple enough to produce reliable stats. showing the economic impact of what will happen if you remove something and that's pretty much what happened before the vote, heck, everyone was doing it and most of them were correct because it's basic economics. What is far harder to do is guess (or forecast) the future based on a model that can't be accurately defined but if you tell me the Brexit camp produce statistics on that, I'll be pleased to see them.

 

What a load of twaddle. Everybody predicted that Sterling would fall with a leave vote. Remain got pretty much everything else wrong, and the prevarication in the above post is typical. Try explaining your theory of basic economics to the BOE's Andy Haldane, who admitted that he got it badly wrong. And now, even his excuse as to why he got it so badly wrong has been proven wrong by the latest economic figures! Remain have got nothing, zilch, nada right about how the economy would perform before or since the leave vote. And the same clowns aggressively expect people to believe every new prediction! Talk about the boy who cried wolf.

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

What a load of twaddle. Everybody predicted that Sterling would fall with a leave vote. Remain got pretty much everything else wrong, and the prevarication in the above post is typical. Try explaining your theory of basic economics to the BOE's Andy Haldane, who admitted that he got it badly wrong. And now, even his excuse as to why he got it so badly wrong has been proven wrong by the latest economic figures! Remain have got nothing, zilch, nada right about how the economy would perform before or since the leave vote. And the same clowns aggressively expect people to believe every new prediction! Talk about the boy who cried wolf.

When you and Sgt Rock were arguing this point many months ago you were both adamant the Pound wouldn't fall and you both said that was a false claim from project Fear, now you claim everyone knew it would fall, that's pretty typical of the way the Brexit campaign has been run. You then went on to claim that the increase in the FTSE proved that project fear was wrong, you failed to understand that the devalued Pound and overseas earnings accounted for that increase, remember! 

[simoh1490]

10 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

If you have an economic model that details why Brexit is economically good for the UK, please show it to us, even if it's not 100% complete or overly sophisticated.

 

If you have supportable, valid, unemotional and logical arguments, based on fact, describing why Brexit is better for the UK than the remain option, please put them forward.

 

Personally, despite asking for those things from you and others on this forum over many months, I've yet to see anything remotely credible.

Bump.

[adammike]

7 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

What a load of twaddle. Everybody predicted that Sterling would fall with a leave vote. Remain got pretty much everything else wrong, and the prevarication in the above post is typical. Try explaining your theory of basic economics to the BOE's Andy Haldane, who admitted that he got it badly wrong. And now, even his excuse as to why he got it so badly wrong has been proven wrong by the latest economic figures! Remain have got nothing, zilch, nada right about how the economy would perform before or since the leave vote. And the same clowns aggressively expect people to believe every new prediction! Talk about the boy who cried wolf.

It's all going tits up for the Tories God knows what's going to happen to Brexit,better get some more beer and chips in.Loving it.

[Khun Han]

Just now, simoh1490 said:

When you and Sgt Rock were arguing this point many months ago you were both adamant the Pound wouldn't fall and you both said that was a false claim from project Fear, now you claim everyone knew it would fall, that's pretty typical of the way the Brexit campaign has been run. You then went on to claim that the increase in the FTSE proved that project fear was wrong, you failed to understand that the devalued Pound and overseas earnings accounted for that increase, remember! 

 

Sorry, you have the wrong poster. I didn't join the discussions until after the referendum (and, rather obviously, after Sterling fell).

[Khun Han]

3 minutes ago, adammike said:

It's all going tits up for the Tories God knows what's going to happen to Brexit,better get some more beer and chips in.Loving it.

A poster who keeps on confirming that he'd rather see the UK suffer than be proven wrong. How sad.

[simoh1490]

Just now, Khun Han said:

 

Sorry, you have the wrong poster. I didn't join the discussions until after the referendum (and, rather obviously, after Sterling fell).

The statements you made on Sterling's fall were post-referendum and I know you will remember those "discussions", I'll dig out the link and post them - at the time I was posting as chiang mai.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

7 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

As a group you haven't produced any statistics or economic models, all you do is tell everyone that the models and statistics produced by the remain group are wrong, that and play word games just like you're doing here! Indeed, leave has yet to be proved correct, correct about what is the mystery though! At some point you'll no doubt jump up and down and shout, I told you so, we were right, claiming that some future event was long in your master plan, the one that nobody has ever seen!

It remains to be seen what will ultimately happen

But the Remoaner's constant rejection of a democratic vote is plain to see.

The sabotage being attempted is disgusting. Labour lost the election and the Lib-Dems were annihilated along with humiliation for the SNP don't forget.

The rich south east (London) champagne socialists want cheap labour and nannies for their kids. Selfish hipsters rule now?

No, democracy does.

 

Glass half full or half empty?

My glass is half full and looking for a top up soon.

 

 

 

 

[Khun Han]

5 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Bump.

 

Firstly, it's not possible to form any kind of economic model until we have left the EU and trade deals with the rest of the world are officially underway.

 

Secondly, the leave vote was about sovereignty. With less sovereignty, as the EU mission unfolds, any predicted economic models from being within the EU can be radically altered by them with very little say so from the UK.

[simoh1490]

Just now, Khun Han said:

 

Firstly, it's not possible to form any kind of economic model until we have left the EU and trade deals with the rest of the world are officially underway.

 

Secondly, the leave vote was about sovereignty. With less sovereignty, as the EU mission unfolds, any predicted economic models from being within the EU can be radically altered by them with very little say so from the UK.

Thank you for admitting that the Brexit group doesn't have such a model and in fact doesn't have a clue what one might look like until some unspecified point in the future and that the whole thing is a massive leap into the economic unknown.

 

Perhaps for you the vote was about sovereignty,  aka not being told what to do by another political body. For others it was about being able to spend an additional £350 million a week on the NHS and about reducing immigration, cough cough!

 

See below the thread I mentioned earlier, I'll go through it and pull out the posts I referred to, bring back memories?

 

 

[simoh1490]

8 minutes ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

It remains to be seen what will ultimately happen

But the Remoaner's constant rejection of a democratic vote is plain to see.

The sabotage being attempted is disgusting. Labour lost the election and the Lib-Dems were annihilated along with humiliation for the SNP don't forget.

The rich south east (London) champagne socialists want cheap labour and nannies for their kids. Selfish hipsters rule now?

No, democracy does.

 

Glass half full or half empty?

My glass is half full and looking for a top up soon.

 

 

 

 

Was your first statement a Freudian slip or a play on words!

 

There are radicals in both groups, don't let it upset you.

 

I've always suspected the outcome of the Brexit vote was an attempt by the have-nots to damage the wealth of the have's, your statement about nannies supports that theory!

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Thank you for admitting that the Brexit group doesn't have such a model and in fact doesn't have a clue what one might look like until some unspecified point in the future and that the whole thing is a massive leap into the economic unknown.

 

Perhaps for you the vote was about sovereignty,  aka not being told what to do by another political body. For others it was about being able to spend an additional £350 million a week on the NHS and about reducing immigration, cough cough!

 

See below the thread I mentioned earlier, I'll go through it and pull out the posts I referred to, bring back memories?

 

 

And relinquishing all power to a semi-democratic expansionist, bureaucratically ruled and inept EU "Super State" is the answer?

You need a reality check.

PS. The Press promised £350m to the NHS.

Leave actually said: "The money can help to fund public services."

 

 

 

[Khun Han]

22 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Thank you for admitting that the Brexit group doesn't have such a model and in fact doesn't have a clue what one might look like until some unspecified point in the future and that the whole thing is a massive leap into the economic unknown.

 

Perhaps for you the vote was about sovereignty,  aka not being told what to do by another political body. For others it was about being able to spend an additional £350 million a week on the NHS and about reducing immigration, cough cough!

 

See below the thread I mentioned earlier, I'll go through it and pull out the posts I referred to, bring back memories?

 

 

 

About 95% of the people I know (with whom I've discussed brexit) voted to leave. Not one of them considered the suggestion that we could spend extra  money on the NHS after leaving the EU as a factor in their decision. for the vast majority, it was about regaining sovereignty and taking back decision making from the EU before it was too late, about the blatant lies by remain-supporting vested interests and their agents, and with a few whinges about the obvious downsides of free movement.

 

Feel free to find any of my previous posts. I'll have a look at them in context. And I expect you'll find a bit of speculation that didn't quite pan out. But who isn't guilty of that?

Edited November 7, 2017 by Khun Han