Simple way to tell if computer has been taken over?

[thaibeachlovers]

Been reading about computers being taken over by outside forces to do something illegal.

Is there a simple way to tell if that has happened to my computer, and if so, what to do about it?

 

Thanks.

[KhunBENQ]

What operating system do you have?

Windows? Which version?

Do you have any (additional) antivirus/protection SW installed?

 

[thaibeachlovers]

I have W10, which can't be upgraded because of a "fatal flaw" whatever that means. Computer works as well as it did when I bought it.

I have free AVG installed.

[Peterw42]

"being taken over by outside forces" could range from identity theft through to pop-ups and minor browser redirects.

Windows defender (built in) will offer a basic level of protection. Any of the popular anti virus packages (Norton, AVG, Kapersky etc) will give a higher level of protection and will scan for proxy server, browser hijack, bogus DNS etc, at installation.

Then ongoing protection.

Any antivirus is only as good as what you say Yes/No to, if the AV pops up with a warning and you ignore or overwrite it then you can invite problems. Avoid anything on the internet with the word "free" in it, its not.

A quick scan with some free programs such as malwarebytes or spybot etc will show if you may already have some problems.

 

[Peterw42]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have W10, which can't be upgraded because of a "fatal flaw" whatever that means. Computer works as well as it did when I bought it.

I have free AVG installed.

Is it AVG free, or the payed for version ? Free will find and guard against a lot of things but the payed version will include more things like phishing and proxy hijacks.

[KhunBENQ]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

A quick scan with some free programs such as malwarebytes or spybot etc will show if you may already have some problems.

An additional scan, free and without permanent installation.

McAfee Stinger. It's an on demand scanner with the full signature scan of the McAfee product.

 

https://www.mcafee.com/de/downloads/free-tools/stinger.aspx

 

Use the "Download Stinger" or "Download Stinger for x64 systems".

Then unpack the downloaded zip file to a folder and run "stinger.exe".

If your free AVG as well as Stinger (and the programs recommended above) don't find a problem it's somewhat unlikely that your computer is infected/"taken over".

 

I guess you interpret this "fatal flaw" as an indicator?

Can't remember this wording from a W10 error message.

Can you do a screenshot and insert here?

 

 

[wombat]

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

 pop-ups and minor browser redirects.

 

 

its the porn fairy what dunnit

[dotpoom]

After listening to the guy who is very high up in this sort of stuff on RT today (can't remember his name but he designed the original "free antivirus" and designed the bitcoin) if you have ever looked at porn on your computer you have already been taken over. I forget the phrase (I know little about this stuff) but they have taken it over from the keyboard. Encryption is useless as they know what you are typing befote the encryption.even gets a chance to kick in. People are not gathering the information, computers are, and programmed to alert a person.when certain words are typed like "bank" etc. He explained how they can switch on the camera and microphone. Free Apps are deadly....why do you think he says they want access to all your information before you can download them. The "flashlight" is the simplest and most dangerous. Why does it want access to everything also and we give it willingly.

   As for wi/fi...he couldn't explain easily as he was almost doubled up from laughing....I'm not even going to.bother going into it here.

[nasanews]

I run windows 10 no additional virus protection except for malwarbytes premium.

Amazing protection it captures threats as they come to your pc while antivirus programs could locate threats later during scanning.   You see the point in most hacking is clicking wrong links I guess.

[Meljames]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Is there a simple way to tell if that has happened to my computer, and if so, what to do about it?

 

 

 

Most times it's something obvious. You get a lot of pops ups, you get re-directed when you use your browser, you lose control of your mouse, you suddenly have a new search engine. Worse cases, your passwords quit working or you get mystery bank charges. 

 

Prevention is best, run your anti-malware regularly, don't search for porn on the same machine you do your banking etc.

 

Windows 10 can be re-installed  as a last resort, if you're convinced there's a problem that isn't getting fixed.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Meljames

[nasanews]

5 minutes ago, Meljames said:

don't search for porn on the same machine you do your banking etc.

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

I guess you interpret this "fatal flaw" as an indicator?

Can't remember this wording from a W10 error message.

 

The closest I know of is "fatal error".

[KittenKong]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have W10, which can't be upgraded because of a "fatal flaw" whatever that means

 

This is highly undesirable as MS issue regular patches and updates designed specifically to make the operating system more secure and less likely to be hacked into.

 

Are you certain that your version of Win10 is authentic and was installed from genuine media with a proper product key? A common cause of updates not occurring is the use of a pirated version of Windows. Technicians here frequently install pirated products.

[bazza73]

Are you a teacher? Education websites are notorious for accumulating viruses and malware. Particularly government ones.

[hawker9000]

There's some serious fear-mongering going on in this thread.   You're really asking two different questions, each of which needs to be addressed on its own.  WRT the possibility of having been "taken over", I'd echo the suggestion of the on-demand scanners.  Their major advantage is that they don't run from your possibly-infected system but remotely from the scan source (even though they may install some files on your PC before running).  Some malware can compromise your system to the point that your installed security software is essentially compromised as well giving rise to the possibility of false negatives; remote scanning overcomes this and is going to be fully up-to-date as well.  Run more than one different one for extra assurance (but perhaps check some online reviews for ratings on which ones are currently considered the most effective).  And "free" does NOT mean "useless" or ineffective in this context.  Note however that these remote scanners generally will NOT generally remove infections that they find; they just inform you.  You then need to go find out what to do to remove the infection using the information the scanner will have provided (name of the malware, etc.) Sometimes you can find a removal tool that'll do the job; sometimes there's a manual removal process you can follow.  BTW, Microsoft offers a "Safety Scanner" that's entirely different from Defender; it works for only 10days following download and offers no realtime protection.  (When you want to use it again, you download it again.)   There's also the "Malicious Software Removal Tool" that downloads monthly as one of the regular OS updates.

 

There are some specialized scanners available to look for things like rootkits.

 

OK - so THEN you have a problem with Win10 not being upgradeable.  As others have suggested, your predicament may be due to your having a pirated/invalid version, or it may be due to a glitch in the OS install, possibly following some past upgrade or patch which didn't get properly applied, or it may be due to a malware infection (though if there are no other indications/symptoms, I wouldn't jump to this conclusion first).  You might take the time to inform yourself about the various "recovery" methods, and start working your way through them.  You really don't want to allow that condition to continue on your system.

• Windows repair disk (if you made one)
• System restore
• Recovery drive
• Restore using Windows installation media
• Reinstallation using your Windows installation media (probably your last choice)

 

If you've not being doing backups, the first thing you might want to do is backup your data files (not the whole PC!) to a fully independent, fresh (not previously used and definitely NOT ever previously connected to the PC in question), external hard drive, USB stick, or memory chip.  Make the backup, and then disconnect that media and put it aside and proceed with your other work.  BEFORE restoring those files should you need to, be sure and run a security scan on that media FROM ANOTHER PC YOU TRUST, to ensure you haven't just backed up the infection along with the files!  Don't backup system or application files, only your data files.

 

Oh, and to answer the originally posed question...  I know of no simple, one-size-fits-all, reliable way to tell if your computer has been "taken over", unless it starts displaying some pop-up window telling you so.  You need to scan.

Edited October 14, 2017 by hawker9000

[Shiver]

10 hours ago, dotpoom said:

After listening to the guy who is very high up in this sort of stuff on RT today (can't remember his name but he designed the original "free antivirus" and designed the bitcoin) if you have ever looked at porn on your computer you have already been taken over. I forget the phrase (I know little about this stuff) but they have taken it over from the keyboard. Encryption is useless as they know what you are typing befote the encryption.even gets a chance to kick in. People are not gathering the information, computers are, and programmed to alert a person.when certain words are typed like "bank" etc. He explained how they can switch on the camera and microphone. Free Apps are deadly....why do you think he says they want access to all your information before you can download them. The "flashlight" is the simplest and most dangerous. Why does it want access to everything also and we give it willingly.

   As for wi/fi...he couldn't explain easily as he was almost doubled up from laughing....I'm not even going to.bother going into it here.

 

Can you tell us what RT channel it was on and an approximate date?  I'm curious.

 

What you're talking about sounds like a form of Key logger app maybe?

[jgarbo]

10 hours ago, dotpoom said:

After listening to the guy who is very high up in this sort of stuff on RT today (can't remember his name but he designed the original "free antivirus" and designed the bitcoin) if you have ever looked at porn on your computer you have already been taken over. I forget the phrase (I know little about this stuff) but they have taken it over from the keyboard. Encryption is useless as they know what you are typing befote the encryption.even gets a chance to kick in. People are not gathering the information, computers are, and programmed to alert a person.when certain words are typed like "bank" etc. He explained how they can switch on the camera and microphone. Free Apps are deadly....why do you think he says they want access to all your information before you can download them. The "flashlight" is the simplest and most dangerous. Why does it want access to everything also and we give it willingly.

   As for wi/fi...he couldn't explain easily as he was almost doubled up from laughing....I'm not even going to.bother going into it here.

Depends on the OS. Windows is of course doomed from birth. It was designed with an NSA back door. Apple OS is good but "closed" (you don't know what's inside). I run Linux, which won't allow any installation of anything without  "root" (god) permission. All Linux code is open source, ie thousands of very smart, very angry folk check it constantly for bugs. Bugs are fixed in hours. Updates are automatic, according to importance. Keyloggers don't work because they need to be installed. Viruses don't work, unless you're on your fourth martini and go #.

At "blackhat" conventions, a yearly prize is given to hackers who can "break" a machine. Windows is a joke - 5 minutes. Mac - 20 minutes. Linux - not yet.  

However, the computer and OS may be smart but the operator is the problem. Three yr olds, no matter how cute,  should not drive Ferraris. Clicktards, who click on anything shiny, are the gateway for "pwning" a machine. Do you open your door to a stranger? Pick up cute hitchhikers? Accept drinks in a bar from anyone? Then stay away from computers.  

PS I install Linux on friends' machines after they tire of Windows' stupid bloated system & useless help. No complaints so far. You can make Linux look exactly like Windows (ugh) or run it far better. And Linux & all its apps are free.

[hawker9000]

53 minutes ago, jgarbo said:

Depends on the OS. Windows is of course doomed from birth. It was designed with an NSA back door. Apple OS is good but "closed" (you don't know what's inside). I run Linux, which won't allow any installation of anything without  "root" (god) permission. All Linux code is open source, ie thousands of very smart, very angry folk check it constantly for bugs. Bugs are fixed in hours. Updates are automatic, according to importance. Keyloggers don't work because they need to be installed. Viruses don't work, unless you're on your fourth martini and go #.

At "blackhat" conventions, a yearly prize is given to hackers who can "break" a machine. Windows is a joke - 5 minutes. Mac - 20 minutes. Linux - not yet.  

However, the computer and OS may be smart but the operator is the problem. Three yr olds, no matter how cute,  should not drive Ferraris. Clicktards, who click on anything shiny, are the gateway for "pwning" a machine. Do you open your door to a stranger? Pick up cute hitchhikers? Accept drinks in a bar from anyone? Then stay away from computers.  

PS I install Linux on friends' machines after they tire of Windows' stupid bloated system & useless help. No complaints so far. You can make Linux look exactly like Windows (ugh) or run it far better. And Linux & all its apps are free.

And how do they run their bought & paid-for Windows apps on their new Linux machines?  Do you fix them up with Windows emulation software; how well does that work for them?   I'm guessing you don't number many gamers OR custom-software business users among your friends.   But if all a person does is send & receive email and browse, Linux should fill the bill.  You're certainly correct in touting Linux's relative security, but blithely advising everyone to use it and being dismissive of those who don't is to be guilty of the same simple-mindedness you're accusing them of. 

 

 

 

[bazza73]

3 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

And how do they run their bought & paid-for Windows apps on their new Linux machines?  Do you fix them up with Windows emulation software; how well does that work for them?   I'm guessing you don't number many gamers OR custom-software business users among your friends.   But if all a person does is send & receive email and browse, Linux should fill the bill.  You're certainly correct in touting Linux's relative security, but blithely advising everyone to use it and being dismissive of those who don't is to be guilty of the same simple-mindedness you're accusing them of. 

 

 

 

The only thing I need Windows for is the printer driver for a Brother laser printer. Linux doesn't have one that I can install correctly.

My needs are simple - email and a browser. Changed over to Linux a few years ago at the urging of my son, have never regretted it.

Have had Windows XP, Vista and 7. Vista was the greatest abortion ever visited on an unsuspecting customer base, and I'm sure it drove many people into the arms of competitors. IMHO it was only Microsoft's huge reserves that got it through Vista, it would have broken most companies.

Possibly Windows suits people with high-end gaming and graphics needs, I wouldn't know. I do know I was constantly fighting off viruses and malware in the various versions I used. I haven't seen a single virus in Linux.

[hawker9000]

2 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

The only thing I need Windows for is the printer driver for a Brother laser printer. Linux doesn't have one that I can install correctly.

My needs are simple - email and a browser. Changed over to Linux a few years ago at the urging of my son, have never regretted it.

Have had Windows XP, Vista and 7. Vista was the greatest abortion ever visited on an unsuspecting customer base, and I'm sure it drove many people into the arms of competitors. IMHO it was only Microsoft's huge reserves that got it through Vista, it would have broken most companies.

Possibly Windows suits people with high-end gaming and graphics needs, I wouldn't know. I do know I was constantly fighting off viruses and malware in the various versions I used. I haven't seen a single virus in Linux.

"The only thing I need ..."

 

Why do Linux users insist it's always about THEM and what THEY need?  Either that or a similarly bombastic sermon about Windows and its problems, which is undeniable, but not the question.   And preach to Windows users without the slightest idea of what THEIR needs might be.  No.  Linux is great, but it's not the solution for everybody.  OK, so we're all endlessly impressed with what a wise and wonderful non-Windows user you are.  Awesome.  Now please put a sock in it.

 

[maxpower]

16 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

"The only thing I need ..."

 

Why do Linux users insist it's always about THEM and what THEY need?  Either that or a similarly bombastic sermon about Windows and its problems, which is undeniable, but not the question.   And preach to Windows users without the slightest idea of what THEIR needs might be.  No.  Linux is great, but it's not the solution for everybody.  OK, so we're all endlessly impressed with what a wise and wonderful non-Windows user you are.  Awesome.  Now please put a sock in it.

 

One word - Insecurity

[Shiver]

A few years ago I installed Ubuntu because it seemed like the right thing to do.  After 3 months I had a hard drive failiure (unrelated), but in all that time I realised that I'd become so "windoze-ified" I still struggled to find Linux natural to use, and thought sod it and went back to Win7 and just de-featured it as much as I could.

I'm constantly frustrated with Windows, especially it's memory hunger and HD swapping, but Office is something I use a lost and Open Office is just not polished.  The only other stuff I use these days is email and browsing, so that should be a no brainer.

Is there a Linux with a GUI that is fairly natural feeling to use?

[maxpower]

6 minutes ago, Shiver said:

Is there a Linux with a GUI that is fairly natural feeling to use?

Android

[JSixpack]

16 minutes ago, Shiver said:

Is there a Linux with a GUI that is fairly natural feeling to use?

 

 

Take a look at Zorin OS, purposefully tries to be Windows-like:

 

Read about and find reviews here:

 

https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=zorin

 

Download:

 

https://zorinos.com/

 

However, it appears that many Linux users themselves are subject to be taken over by outside forces. Nor are Windows users entirely immune, so that if they're taken over, then it's their normal, clean PCs that appear to them to have been taken over instead.

Edited October 15, 2017 by JSixpack

[rwill]

Try this first.  See if it fixes your error.

 

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wiki/windows_10-update/system-file-check-sfc-scan-and-repair-system-files/bc609315-da1f-4775-812c-695b60477a93?auth=1

 

[bazza73]

4 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

"The only thing I need ..."

 

Why do Linux users insist it's always about THEM and what THEY need?  Either that or a similarly bombastic sermon about Windows and its problems, which is undeniable, but not the question.   And preach to Windows users without the slightest idea of what THEIR needs might be.  No.  Linux is great, but it's not the solution for everybody.  OK, so we're all endlessly impressed with what a wise and wonderful non-Windows user you are.  Awesome.  Now please put a sock in it.

 

Excuse me? What brought on this tirade?

It's about what the computer user needs. Don't you get that?

I don't need an OS that takes about ten times as long to boot up, riddles itself with viruses and malware on a weekly basis, and takes my computer away from me every time it has to install yet another security patch. Someone once said to me if the user is waiting for the computer, instead of the computer waiting for the user, then the computer is too slow.

If you care to reread my post, you'll find I said Windows users may get gaming and graphics benefits I don't get. Horses for courses.

As I get older, I'm less inclined to suffer fools gladly.

[JSixpack]

5 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

 

5 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

"The only thing I need ..."

 

Why do Linux users insist it's always about THEM and what THEY need?  Either that or a similarly bombastic sermon about Windows and its problems, which is undeniable, but not the question.   And preach to Windows users without the slightest idea of what THEIR needs might be.  No.  Linux is great, but it's not the solution for everybody.  OK, so we're all endlessly impressed with what a wise and wonderful non-Windows user you are.  Awesome.  Now please put a sock in it.

 

Excuse me? What brought on this tirade?

It's about what the computer user needs. Don't you get that?

I don't need an OS that takes about ten times as long to boot up, riddles itself with viruses and malware on a weekly basis, and takes my computer away from me every time it has to install yet another security patch. Someone once said to me if the user is waiting for the computer, instead of the computer waiting for the user, then the computer is too slow.

If you care to reread my post, you'll find I said Windows users may get gaming and graphics benefits I don't get. Horses for courses.

 

 

 

Ladies! Put away the handbags, please. Let's all be OS-tolerant here!

[Shiver]

On 10/15/2017 at 11:02 AM, JSixpack said:

 

Take a look at Zorin OS, purposefully tries to be Windows-like:

 

Read about and find reviews here:

 

https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=zorin

 

Download:

 

https://zorinos.com/

 

However, it appears that many Linux users themselves are subject to be taken over by outside forces. Nor are Windows users entirely immune, so that if they're taken over, then it's their normal, clean PCs that appear to them to have been taken over instead.

Thanks for that.  I wasn't aware of its existence.

 

Although I have two laptops, both of them have developed hardware issues, and it's just a matter of time before they cease to be.  I was thinking of replacing them as a pro-active move, and anything important already has multiple backups, but every time I get involved with a computer shop that has anything to do with the O/S and language settings, it's a frustrating experience.  With this I might get new one and wipe it immediately and try Zorin whilst still having access to windows on the other machine to manage a transition without too many dramas.

[JSixpack]

26 minutes ago, Shiver said:

Thanks for that.  I wasn't aware of its existence.

 

Although I have two laptops, both of them have developed hardware issues, and it's just a matter of time before they cease to be.  I was thinking of replacing them as a pro-active move, and anything important already has multiple backups, but every time I get involved with a computer shop that has anything to do with the O/S and language settings, it's a frustrating experience.  With this I might get new one and wipe it immediately and try Zorin whilst still having access to windows on the other machine to manage a transition without too many dramas.

 

Certainly worth a try! Lot of users swear by Zorin and it's usually near the top 10 on Distrowatch. If you run into issues, there's an active support forum here: http://zoringroup.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3

[CaptHaddock]

The short answer is that of course there is no "simple" way to verify that a computer has not been compromised.  If there were, life would be a lot simpler.  There are arbitrary ways that an operating system may be hacked.  The more you know about systems the more likely you are to detect penetration. 

 

If you are worried that your computer has been penetrated then you should do a fresh install of the operating system.  I understand that many business travelers to China do a routine full wipe and reinstall of their laptops on return to the West.