Will Oz Govt know if I marry in Thailand?

[bazza73]

15 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

If your Pension Money was coming from Thailand then you would be 100% correct. But it isn't!

 

Your Pension is coming from Australia and thus it is under Australian Law. For example the 2 year agreement many people have talked about here.

 

Many people who are collecting pensions here are still responsible for paying Income Taxes on that money in there home country. Unless there is some sort of tax agreement with Thailand. So it is nice to think it is the end of the story by moving here, but that may not be the case.  It isn't for Canada anyway.

You're right. I am taxable on my Australian pension and investment income in Australia. However, due to tax offsets and franked dividends, which no other country seems to have, I end up paying no tax at all. You may gnash your teeth in envy now.

[tropo]

5 hours ago, hellstens said:

I think it is the same as Sweden, If you register a marriage in Thailand

it is not valid in your home country, you need to marry here there too

And yes you can get a marriage visa, it is only registered in Thailand anyway, But you need to renew and ask for a marriage visa in Thailand, not in your home country. 

I have done this for years and have no problem. :)

 

 

It's not the same. There is no need to marry again in Australia if you're already married in Thailand. That's a bit harsh! 

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by tropo

[Fatone]

Thanks for all the info and opinions, The overall concensus appears to be that it would be stupid to register the marriage with Thai govt. Think I will just have a buddhist wedding and not tell.

[tropo]

4 hours ago, koolkarl said:

What's more important, the girl or the money and then decide whether to get married or not.

If marriage, eventually Australian gov. will find out and money will be owed to them retroactively.

Perhaps they may find out if they make the declaration on a visa application, otherwise, they may never know.

 

I took my wife to Australia a while back. I don't know if the various government departments share information or not.

[tropo]

2 minutes ago, Fatone said:

Thanks for all the info and opinions, The overall concensus appears to be that it would be stupid to register the marriage with Thai govt. Think I will just have a buddhist wedding and not tell.

Sure, if that will satisfy the wife. She may think otherwise.

[jenny2017]

9 minutes ago, Fatone said:

Thanks for all the info and opinions, The overall concensus appears to be that it would be stupid to register the marriage with Thai govt. Think I will just have a buddhist wedding and not tell.

Honestly, if you do not need a document from your country stating that you're not married back home, the chances are very slim.

But nobody knows what the future will bring..

 Will you pay Sinsot, if you "only" do the Buddhist way? 

 

  P.S. Without trying to be negative now. If you don't marry legally, you don't need to file a divorce. Yin and Yang. Best of luck !!!

 

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by jenny2017

[al007]

It seems to me you are contemplating doing something illegal for the sake of an extra 450 000 approx. on deposit or unusable for only three months of the year

 

I have an Aus friend who has been to hell and back because they found out he was married, he had to divorce

 

Seems to me uour are not thinking sensibly and should not do it, IF  the visa extension is the only reason

[GOLDBUGGY]

6 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

You're right. I am taxable on my Australian pension and investment income in Australia. However, due to tax offsets and franked dividends, which no other country seems to have, I end up paying no tax at all. You may gnash your teeth in envy now.

No Envy here!

 

I am still working but as a Non-Resident in Canada, so I don't have to pay Income Tax there. Since I am not in Thailand longer than 180 days a year, I am not a Resident here either, and thus not liable for taxes here either. My company pays taxes for me in the country I work in.

 

My Dividends are taxed at only 15%. I could probably get some of that back if I filed, but don't bother. My Stocks and Capital Gains on them are Tax Free. I don't collect a Pension yet, but I could. I would rather wait until I do Retire then take part of it now.  

[GOLDBUGGY]

12 minutes ago, tropo said:

It's not the same. There is no need to marry again in Australia if you're already married in Thailand. That's a bit harsh! 

 

No need to marry again in Canada either if you had a legal marriage here. But you do have to register your marriage in Canada or otherwise they would never know.

 

Not sure how to do that exactly as I never tried to do that yet. But I am sure it is a simple process. But then getting married again in a government office maybe is easier. Don't know???

[tropo]

12 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

No need to marry again in Canada either if you had a legal marriage here. But you do have to register your marriage in Canada or otherwise they would never know.

 

Not sure how to do that exactly as I never tried to do that yet. But I am sure it is a simple process. But then getting married again in a government office maybe is easier. Don't know???

The papers required (Stat declaration, translated and authenticated by the DFA) by the Amphur office to register a marriage are all that is required to be legally married under Australian Law. There doesn't seem to be a central registry (as there is in some countries) that requires a reporting of said marriage.

 

The OP would have a separate legal obligation to report his marriage to Centrelink. It seems that Australia relies on the honesty system through stat declarations for many things. 

 

If he tries to get a visa for his wife at a later time, they would have to get information from Centrelink to verify his income source - then he would probably be refused a visa as they would find out he failed to report his marriage... and also chop his pension down to the appropriate level. They would probably require a repayment for the years he's been overpaid too.

Edited October 17, 2017 by tropo

[Laza 45]

46 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

If you only marry her because of your visa situation, then best of luck to you. 

Jenny.. many guys like myself have been 'married' to our partners in a Buddhist ceremony.. in the eyes of family and community we are considered to be married.. but this marriage is not recognized by governments.. having a legal marriage doesn't change the relationship but makes it possible to get a marriage visa with less stringent requirements.. I've been happily 'married' for 11 years now by the Buddhist ceremony.. but it would make life easier if we were formally married...   

[tropo]

5 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

Jenny.. many guys like myself have been 'married' to our partners in a Buddhist ceremony.. in the eyes of family and community we are considered to be married.. but this marriage is not recognized by governments.. having a legal marriage doesn't change the relationship but makes it possible to get a marriage visa with less stringent requirements.. I've been happily 'married' for 11 years now by the Buddhist ceremony.. but it would make life easier if we were formally married...   

I think it changes the relationship quite a bit, to do it legally, but that will depend on the attitude of your partner. My wife is not Thai, but no way would she have settled for a ceremonial marriage. We got married in Thailand though. We had a Christian ceremony along with the official Amphur registration. She wanted a passport in her married name too, which required full reporting to her home country. She wanted the whole deal. She wanted to really be married LOL... and of course, I'm legally married in Australia too, even if I don't report it. If you only do a ceremonial marriage, neither of you are legally married in either of your countries. There is a big difference.

Edited October 17, 2017 by tropo

[Rimmer]

A troll post making no sense has been removed

[farcanell]

4 hours ago, observer90210 said:

I have heard of this before,....why do certain countries reduce the pension once married ?

Married couples share expenses, theoretically reducing overall costs.

[tropo]

12 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Married couples share expenses, theoretically reducing overall costs.

Which works out fine if you're both on the pension or one is working. In reality it's more like a sick joke.

Edited October 17, 2017 by tropo

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

Perhaps they may find out if they make the declaration on a visa application, otherwise, they may never know.

 

I took my wife to Australia a while back. I don't know if the various government departments share information or not.

Immigration and welfare does.... my missus was on unemployment benefits, many years ago, at the beginning of our relationship, and met me in Bali once... they busted her for leaving the country whilst on the dole

 

theoretically other departments should too, but correlating the information is challenging, and when dealing with foreign governments, it verges on impossible... though improved IT methods are slowly changing this.

 

So... it’s a risk, and if you try to play fast and loose, you could loose... but then, everything is a risk, and one needs to be aware of the penalty vs reward, when deciding to run the gauntlet.

[tropo]

1 minute ago, farcanell said:

Immigration and welfare does.... my missus was on unemployment benefits, many years ago, at the beginning of our relationship, and met me in Bali once... they busted her for leaving the country whilst on the dole

 

 

 

That's always been an obvious one as it's important for Centrelink to know if people are traveling overseas while on welfare. These days Centrelink will be notified immediately one of their "customers" leaves.

[tifino]

 

This is the latest display of AgePension rates from Centrelink:

Age Pension rates

Age Pension rates – Single (per fortnight)

	20 September 2017	20 March 2017	Increase
Base	$814.00	$808.30	$5.70 pf
Pension Supplement	$66.30	$65.90	$0.40 pf
Energy Supplement	$14.10	$14.10	$0.00 pf
Total	$894.40	$888.30	$6.10 pf

Age Pension rates – Couple (each member of couple, per fortnight)

	20 September 2017	20 March 2017	Increase
Base	$613.60	$609.30	$4.30 pf
Pension Supplement	$50.00	$49.70	$0.30 pf
Energy Supplement	$10.60	$10.60	$0.00 pf
Total	$674.20	$669.60	$4.60 pf

 

 

of course, being overseas, the 'supplements' are irrelevant

 

for the sake of the 200 per fortnight difference, the risks in being detected, and lose ALL pension should surely outweigh the dreamed of 'gains'

 

There is also the risk of being convicted of the fraud, as a Welfare Cheat

 

By not declaring the existence of a wife, the lie would also have to extend to your ATO Returns too, so it gets worse...

 

 

[farcanell]

39 minutes ago, tifino said:

 

This is the latest display of AgePension rates from Centrelink:

Age Pension rates

Age Pension rates – Single (per fortnight)

	20 September 2017	20 March 2017	Increase
Base	$814.00	$808.30	$5.70 pf
Pension Supplement	$66.30	$65.90	$0.40 pf
Energy Supplement	$14.10	$14.10	$0.00 pf
Total	$894.40	$888.30	$6.10 pf

Age Pension rates – Couple (each member of couple, per fortnight)

	20 September 2017	20 March 2017	Increase
Base	$613.60	$609.30	$4.30 pf
Pension Supplement	$50.00	$49.70	$0.30 pf
Energy Supplement	$10.60	$10.60	$0.00 pf
Total	$674.20	$669.60	$4.60 pf

 

 

of course, being overseas, the 'supplements' are irrelevant

 

for the sake of the 200 per fortnight difference, the risks in being detected, and lose ALL pension should surely outweigh the dreamed of 'gains'

 

There is also the risk of being convicted of the fraud, as a Welfare Cheat

 

By not declaring the existence of a wife, the lie would also have to extend to your ATO Returns too, so it gets worse...

 

 

Complicated webs woven, do indeed have a higher likelihood of going pear shaped, and are often best avoided.

[tifino]

 

once there is the meekest of leaks (like the first mention of this whole thing by the OP)

 

 

 

To cover one lie, needs 3 more lies...

 

... to cover 3 lies, needs 3* more lies, for each of the lies...

[tropo]

4 hours ago, tifino said:

 

once there is the meekest of leaks (like the first mention of this whole thing by the OP)

 

 

 

To cover one lie, needs 3 more lies...

 

... to cover 3 lies, needs 3* more lies, for each of the lies...

1

That's a bit melodramatic. As long as he has no intentions of bringing his wife to Australia, not disclosing info about his marriage in Thailand will never surface. The stat declaration he signs at the Embassy merely shows he has intentions that he wants to marry, but it doesn't prove it.

[mstevens]

You're a risk taker to even consider this, and that is being polite.  If they find out in the future that you have been COMMITTING FRAUD, any of the following could happen : you could face serious criminal charges, you WILL have to repay a lot of money and you likely will get some very harsh penalties / fines.  All it could take is the most innocuous slip up for them to find out, or to fall out with someone who tips the Australian government off about what you're doing and bam, you've got big problems!

 

You're mad to even think of doing this.

[4MyEgo]

14 hours ago, Laza 45 said:

...What is the 2 year rule?.. I haven't heard of this before..   I don't believe they can stop your pension for living overseas.. but you will loose Medicare cover if they find the you are no longer a resident of OZ..

Don't get trapped as many have and will with this.

 

If you reside outside of Australia for more than 183 days in a financial year and remain in one country for the duration of your stay, i.e. Thailand, they can and in most cases will look at you as a foreign resident, not to be confused with your Australian citizenship, the foreign resident rule is to screw you, meaning if you leave Australia for a better life, to escape high cost of living and the slave trade we created to keep you in, then we will punish you.

 

1) Medicare will cease after 5 years

 

2) You will no longer be able to vote

 

3) If you own a property and rent it out, we will charge you 1/3 tax on the rent you receive and will not allow you to have a threshold at all, currently no tax for Australian residents/tax payers up to $18,200 so you lose that and your property will be subject to capital gains tax as at the date you leave the country.

 

I could go on and on and on, but its a busy day for me today making tax free dollars on the stock market as she has been cracking the last 3-4 days so gotta make the most of it.

 

Suggest you start reading more or go to the Australian Taxation Offices website and check out foreign residence.

 

If you are living overseas for more then 183 days in a financial year, you can go back and apply for the old age pension OAP, and they will approve you, if they determine you are back for good, i.e. not just back for the 2 years and will start paying you, but if you leave in that two years period, they will stop it.

 

If you live in Australia 2 years prior, you can get it approved and take it with you, i.e. portable, suffice to say, again, they must be convinced you are not going to leave, but you have more chances staying back in Australia for 2 or more years, than just turning up and claiming it, because like I said, they will approve you, but you cannot take it with you, and if they feel you have just returned to get it and there is a possibility that you will leave after the 2 years, you will get burnt.

 

Start your research mate, too many Xpats have been burnt and most of us here have already done our research and put plans into place.

 

Good luck

 

[BHW]

Centrelink found out I am married to a Thai they reduced my pension & started taking out re payments from the over pay, I discussed this with then, they said because my wife is of working age the pension was reduced, to cut a long story short, I filled in some forms stating we live in a remote area where there is no paid work for women, list of her assets which is only the land I built a house on, cost of the house build, list of my monthly expenses, I'm not in the best of health etc plus other minor information they required, once they received all this info my full pension was immediately restored & the repayments reimbursed.

 

They guy I dealt with at international services said during a phone call, if my wife traveled to Australia they'd find out as agencies share this sort of information also when I fall off The Perch they find out & if I have any assets in Australia they would claim back payments from my estate. 

 

From my experience I am relaxed knowing nothing ( I hope ) is hanging over my head.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, BHW said:

Centrelink found out I am married to a Thai they reduced my pension & started taking out re payments from the over pay, I discussed this with then, they said because my wife is of working age the pension was reduced, to cut a long story short, I filled in some forms stating we live in a remote area where there is no paid work for women, list of her assets which is only the land I built a house on, cost of the house build, list of my monthly expenses, I'm not in the best of health etc plus other minor information they required, once they received all this info my full pension was immediately restored & the repayments reimbursed.

 

They guy I dealt with at international services said during a phone call, if my wife traveled to Australia they'd find out as agencies share this sort of information also when I fall off The Perch they find out & if I have any assets in Australia they would claim back payments from my estate. 

 

From my experience I am relaxed knowing nothing ( I hope ) is hanging over my head.

When you fall off the perch, say 30+ years from now, make sure you tell your Mrs to do what I have told mine, i.e. just cremate me assup, and don't tell anyone, because if the cops know, they inform the embassy, who informs Australian government and then they cut the pension, so at least this way she keeps getting the pension, with her reply being; but you have life insurance and assets, so farrrrk the pension honey, clever my Mrs...lol 

Edited October 18, 2017 by 4MyEgo

[bazza73]

11 hours ago, tropo said:

That's always been an obvious one as it's important for Centrelink to know if people are traveling overseas while on welfare. These days Centrelink will be notified immediately one of their "customers" leaves.

Centrelink's rules require me to notify them every time I go overseas. I don't have to notify them when I return, they know that automatically.

So if they know immediately I return, why do they need notification when I leave? They know anyway.

Another example of petty bureaucracy in action.

[bust]

If losing $200 a month is of such a concern I would say that is the least of your problems.

[Nemises]

When you fall off the perch, say 30+ years from now, make sure you tell your Mrs to do what I have told mine, i.e. just cremate me assup, and don't tell anyone, because if the cops know, they inform the embassy, who informs Australian government and then they cut the pension, so at least this way she keeps getting the pension, with her reply being; but you have life insurance and assets, so farrrrk the pension honey, clever my Mrs...lol 

I love it and want to do the same! - but are you sure that your Mrs can LEGALLY have you cremated without telling the police of your death?

[4MyEgo]

15 minutes ago, Gregster said:

I love it and want to do the same! - but are you sure that your Mrs can LEGALLY have you cremated without telling the police of your death?

It would be to her detriment, i.e. the life insurance company would want to sight the death certificate, and so would the executor of my will so as to distribute all those $'s to her, so cremating me would be a no no, unless I peee it all up against the wall in downtown Phuket and Pattaya and cancel my life insurance policy, but that would be selfish as I have 5 kids, oh boy, she is going to be cursing me, 5 kids on her own, wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy, hopefully they will all be adults by then 555

[4MyEgo]

16 hours ago, steve C said:

I f you are cheating the Australian tax payer, you will get caught out. Som Na Na

Only the government can cheat the Australian tax payer, as they change the laws to suite themselves...lol