Thailand moves toward abolishing death penalty

[Cancerian]

On 18/10/2017 at 10:28 AM, Golgota said:

Why add the last sentence?

 

The death penalty in US costs more to the tax payers than the people in jail for life, the "righty conservative brigade" should take that into consideration too, right?

 

[brewsterbudgen]

Thailand last carried out a lethal injection in 2009 when two Thai drug traffickers were executed. Hopefully it will remain the last time.

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[Cancerian]

On 18/10/2017 at 11:55 AM, oxo1947 said:

The article is about Thailand Cancerian...... & I dont think they get Ice cream & Pizzas in Bang Kwang Central Prison .....

No but abolishing the death penalty is one step closer and if the civil libertarians have there way it's only a matter of time. We never gave them ice cream in the past and we used to have the death penalty. But now the criminal has more rites than the victims and there families. The pedophiles are in protective custody. Who is protecting the children? 

[oxo1947]

20 minutes ago, Cancerian said:

No but abolishing the death penalty is one step closer and if the civil libertarians have there way it's only a matter of time. We never gave them ice cream in the past and we used to have the death penalty. But now the criminal has more rites than the victims and there families. The pedophiles are in protective custody. Who is protecting the children? 

We seem to have gone from "should we have-the death penalty to paedophilia, a crime that does not even have the death penalty.--so you thoughts are a little hard to follow.

Once again the posting is on Thailand's death penalty...& should it be changed,  not how wonderful it really is to spend your life locked up in an Oz or UK prison. 

[Cancerian]

1 hour ago, oxo1947 said:

We seem to have gone from "should we have-the death penalty to paedophilia, a crime that does not even have the death penalty.--so you thoughts are a little hard to follow.

Once again the posting is on Thailand's death penalty...& should it be changed,  not how wonderful it really is to spend your life locked up in an Oz or UK prison. 

Well it should be a death penalty for pedophiles . And like I said abolishing the death penalty as we have is just a stepping stone toward the piss weak penalty system we have. So if they want to follow our steps go ahead it will only  be a matter of time before the prisoners here are getting treated better than there victims. And there lucky I am not running the show is would make the death penalty look like a holiday

[observer90210]

On 18/10/2017 at 5:17 AM, RichardColeman said:

Sorry, but I believe the death sentence should be used in certain areas. Somethings in this life are unforgivable. Street murder of Lee Rigby for instance.  Attempted mass murder. Child rape and mutilation, etc. If that upsets the lefty PC brigade on here I really do not give a damn.

Sorry , but the ultima ratio of a judicial sentence would only be socially acceptableable for horrendous crimes [that need to be defined democratically] and under the strict condition that there is 1000% flawless technical and judicial proof that the culprit is guilty....

 

no margin of error or doubt can be acceptable on the case leading to the death penalty....judicial errors have occured in the highly advanced USA, on the death row....does Thailand have the judicial and technical means to provide flawless proof of guilt for a death sentence ?

Edited October 20, 2017 by observer90210

[manarak]

7 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

Sorry , but the ultima ratio of a judicial sentence would only be socially acceptableable for horrendous crimes [that need to be defined democratically] and under the strict condition that there is 1000% flawless technical and judicial proof that the culprit is guilty....

 

no margin of error or doubt can be acceptable on the case leading to the death penalty....judicial errors have occured in the highly advanced USA, on the death row....does Thailand have the judicial and technical means to provide flawless proof of guilt for a death sentence ?

 

The USA are far from being highly advanced when it comes to honesty and intelligence in the justice system.

 

I agree that proof for death sentences should theoretically by flawless - yet think about it - shouldn't a conviction beyond doubt also be required for locking someone up for life ??

something doesn't compute here.

 

My final point would be that Western society is gradually moving away from a "statistical" management of society towards a management that I would call "individually idealistic". A perfect world that can be summarized with "bleeding heart society", pushed forward by people who mostly have never been confronted with the full and depressing stupidity of masses.

One can easily see where principles such as "there is no price for a life" can lead society when for example applied to healthcare systems.

 

From my point of view, there should be a technical qualification for a death sentence, for example that the crime needs to be flawlessly proven only by forensic proof and other solid material facts, but not relying on witness statements.

[observer90210]

1 hour ago, manarak said:

 

The USA are far from being highly advanced when it comes to honesty and intelligence in the justice system.

 

I agree that proof for death sentences should theoretically by flawless - yet think about it - shouldn't a conviction beyond doubt also be required for locking someone up for life ??

something doesn't compute here.

 

My final point would be that Western society is gradually moving away from a "statistical" management of society towards a management that I would call "individually idealistic". A perfect world that can be summarized with "bleeding heart society", pushed forward by people who mostly have never been confronted with the full and depressing stupidity of masses.

One can easily see where principles such as "there is no price for a life" can lead society when for example applied to healthcare systems.

 

From my point of view, there should be a technical qualification for a death sentence, for example that the crime needs to be flawlessly proven only by forensic proof and other solid material facts, but not relying on witness statements.

A good point regarding flawlessness regarding life detention...allow me to sheepishly try to "bail" out in considering that an inmate getting life may be eligible for parole at some point and could thus regain somewhat of a normal path?...but that would arise further debate on the unconditional efficiency of rehab in detention. But your comment is fully pertinent. Nevertheless, I assume that we do agree on the fact a case must bear irrefutable support before it leads to the ultimate sentence.

[brewsterbudgen]

Well it should be a death penalty for pedophiles . And like I said abolishing the death penalty as we have is just a stepping stone toward the piss weak penalty system we have. So if they want to follow our steps go ahead it will only  be a matter of time before the prisoners here are getting treated better than there victims. And there lucky I am not running the show is would make the death penalty look like a holiday

Drug traffickers too?

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[Cancerian]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Drug traffickers too?

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Why not there is a lot of death and misery associated with hard drugs. Addicts running up huge debts and ordered to do jobs to pay them off. Armed Robberies the list just goes on there are alot of deaths from dealers addicts as well as innocent family members. It's quite easy really if you don't want to be executed don't mess with the law

[brewsterbudgen]

Why not there is a lot of death and misery associated with hard drugs. Addicts running up huge debts and ordered to do jobs to pay them off. Armed Robberies the list just goes on there are alot of deaths from dealers addicts as well as innocent family members. It's quite easy really if you don't want to be executed don't mess with the law

Maybe go for the full array of sharia punishments, with amputations, stoning and throwing off rooftops?

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[Cancerian]

31 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Maybe go for the full array of sharia punishments, with amputations, stoning and throwing off rooftops?

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Why have you dragged up sharia law that applies to trivial offences. And is oppressive toward women. Do you even know about sharia law. A woman who is raped must have 4 male witnesses or is convicted of adultery. A man can marry a 9yo. If a man rapes a women it is ok if he marries her. Grow up. We are talking. Murderer's child molesters drug traffickers. So your sharia law would allow a child molester to walk free if he marries her

[brewsterbudgen]

Why have you dragged up sharia law that applies to trivial offences. And is oppressive toward women. Do you even know about sharia law. A woman who is raped must have 4 male witnesses or is convicted of adultery. A man can marry a 9yo. If a man rapes a women it is ok if he marries her. Grow up. We are talking. Murderer's child molesters drug traffickers. So your sharia law would allow a child molester to walk free if he marries her

I didn't say sharia law, I said sharia punishments. Maybe Saudi style beheadings would satisfy the bloodlust many seem to desire whenever this topic comes up (I'm not suggesting you do personally).

 

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[Cancerian]

3 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I didn't say sharia law, I said sharia punishments. Maybe Saudi style beheadings would satisfy the bloodlust many seem to desire whenever this topic comes up (I'm not suggesting you do personally).

 

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Well obviously sharia punishments applies to sharia law. The topic is about death penalty via lethal Injection. Where's the blood lust come from? But anyway don't really care how these scum are executed the end result is the same. Problem gone. Perhaps you should speak to some of the families victims. Instead of being concerned about these scumbags lives

[brewsterbudgen]

Well obviously sharia punishments applies to sharia law. The topic is about death penalty via lethal Injection. Where's the blood lust come from? But anyway don't really care how these scum are executed the end result is the same. Problem gone. Perhaps you should speak to some of the families victims. Instead of being concerned about these scumbags lives

Life that means life, with no chance of parole, is the civilised choice. The death penalty has no place in a civilised society. Even for scumbags.

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[Cancerian]

5 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

Life that means life, with no chance of parole, is the civilised choice. The death penalty has no place in a civilised society. Even for scumbags.

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Civilised? Are you for real. In a Civilised society there would be no murder no rape no drugs traffickers. Pull your head out of the sand and have a good look around. We are not even close to living in a Civilised society. Where do you live in fantasy land. Maybe in your long room watching shows like the Cosby show. Aussie and Harriet where the cops come and get your cat out of the tree well shit ain't like that.

[Chip Allen]

An extremely bad move. As long as Thailand insists upon brutal and immoral prison conditions. the death penalty is a blessing for those who find themselves incarcerated in this medieval country. When Thailand has prison conditions on par with Sweden and Switzerland, we can talk about eliminating the death penalty. Until that time, it is an escape from a kind of misery that Asia has not imposed on foreigners since World War 2.

[brewsterbudgen]

Civilised? Are you for real. In a Civilised society there would be no murder no rape no drugs traffickers. Pull your head out of the sand and have a good look around. We are not even close to living in a Civilised society. Where do you live in fantasy land. Maybe in your long room watching shows like the Cosby show. Aussie and Harriet where the cops come and get your cat out of the tree well shit ain't like that.

I live in Thailand. I agree we don't live in a civilised society, either here in Thailand or in the west, but imposing the death penalty makes such a society less achievable. In my opinion. Fortunately many countries agree and abolished it decades ago. Hopefully Thailand will join them.

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[Cancerian]

38 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I live in Thailand. I agree we don't live in a civilised society, either here in Thailand or in the west, but imposing the death penalty makes such a society less achievable. In my opinion. Fortunately many countries agree and abolished it decades ago. Hopefully Thailand will join them.

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The Only way you are going to live in a civilised society with civilised people is to get rid of the uncivilised ones. And the countries that have abolished it decades ago are far from civilised. And it's quite simple really if a country has the death penalty and you go out and commit these crimes to pad pay the price. If you dot want to be executed don't kill someone else 

[brewsterbudgen]

The Only way you are going to live in a civilised society with civilised people is to get rid of the uncivilised ones. And the countries that have abolished it decades ago are far from civilised. And it's quite simple really if a country has the death penalty and you go out and commit these crimes to pad pay the price. If you dot want to be executed don't kill someone else 

If only it were that simple! Countries that still put people to death in large numbers, like China, USA, Iran, Saudi, are not exactly crime-free paradises! Let's agree to disagree. I know on which side of "civilisation" I stand, but accept that there is an alternative view. This thread is about Thailand and it does look like it's moving in my way here. Which is a relief.

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[Cancerian]

4 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

If only it were that simple! Countries that still put people to death in large numbers, like China, USA, Iran, Saudi, are not exactly crime-free paradises! Let's agree to disagree. I know on which side of "civilisation" I stand, but accept that there is an alternative view. This thread is about Thailand and it does look like it's moving in my way here. Which is a relief.

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Might not be civilised as you say but at least they are not wasting billions of hard working tax payers money on supporting these scum. And do you really think locking someone in a cell for the rest of there life is civilised. 

[brewsterbudgen]

Might not be civilised as you say but at least they are not wasting billions of hard working tax payers money on supporting these scum. And do you really think locking someone in a cell for the rest of there life is civilised. 

Well, as I thought I'd made clear, yes, more civilised than killing them.

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[Jonah Tenner]

2 hours ago, Cancerian said:

The Only way you are going to live in a civilised society with civilised people is to get rid of the uncivilised ones. 

An afterwards, how do we then get rid of the uncivilised executioners and propagators of the death penalty?

[Cancerian]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Well, as I thought I'd made clear, yes, more civilised than killing them.

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I am sure the victims families will disagree with you but of course no one cares about them

[Cancerian]

10 minutes ago, Jonah Tenner said:

An afterwards, how do we then get rid of the uncivilised executioners and propagators of the death penalty?

I think you will most normal people will find nothing uncivilised about a person doing his job whether it be slaughtering a cow for food or ridding the world of scum. But as usual hypocrites think us humans have more right to life than any other animal on this planet

[Aj Mick]

2 hours ago, Cancerian said:

The Only way you are going to live in a civilised society with civilised people is to get rid of the uncivilised ones. And the countries that have abolished it decades ago are far from civilised. And it's quite simple really if a country has the death penalty and you go out and commit these crimes to pad pay the price. If you dot want to be executed don't kill someone else 

Some of the countries that abolished the death penalty decades ago may be far from civilised, but more are among the most civilised...... and they are certainly far more civilised than any country that retains it, no matter how developed the economy of such retentionist states is. 

[brewsterbudgen]

I am sure the victims families will disagree with you but of course no one cares about them

Who doesn't care about the families of victims? If you think all families of victims are pro-capital punishment you are mistaken. How about the families of innocent people who were executed?

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[Cancerian]

7 minutes ago, Aj Mick said:

Some of the countries that abolished the death penalty decades ago may be far from civilised, but more are among the most civilised...... and they are certainly far more civilised than any country that retains it, no matter how developed the economy of such retentionist states is. 

Civilised you must be kidding that's your interpretation after the less civilised countries have executed the scum they should execute the civil libertarians only then can they be truly civilised 

[brewsterbudgen]

Civilised you must be kidding that's your interpretation after the less civilised countries have executed the scum they should execute the civil libertarians only then can they be truly civilised 

Resorting to nonsense is a sure sign you're losing the argument!

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[oxo1947]

Bring back hanging.......

 

……..these tumble dryers are absolutely useless.