Warehouse in our small Soi MAY be cause of periods of severely oscillating voltages. Who should we refer matter to & what can we do?

[gdhm]

Hi all . We have for a few years gone through periods of days weeks where our power supply for periods ranging form a few minutes up to several hours where our voltage supply constantly second by second varies within up to a 25V range

 

The effect at its worst is lights bright/dim bright dim, Fans and air cons rev up down up down. Our PC PSU are constantly switching between  mains power and PSU battery supply. Voltages on my multimeter are constantly changing and today a few video recording clearly shows a min/max variation  range of up to 25V and in one up to 40V which in my opinion is ridiculous and totally unacceptable.  In the morning this means 217V down to around 190V BUT late in the afternoon today 14:50 it deteriorated after a stable spell of an hours or so and was ranging between 212V to 170V (occasionally 167V)  which is a 40V range. Obviously I am perfectly willing to show any interested/overseeing parties the videos I have made today to prove the truth in what I am saying.

 

A neighbour who lives 3 house up our small soi thinks the warehouse 2 house on from her house (that was allowed to be built several years ago at the end of our otherwise houses or land plots small soi.  I understood at the time it was intended was for storage) is cutting currently cutting sheet metal or similar. If thery are doing that and maybe using welding equipment that may explain the Voltage readings. BUT I HASTEN TO ADD, I CANNOT BE SURE AT THIS TIME IT IS THE WAREHOUSE being the cause of our oscillating voltages.  Additional observation it seems to occur only in working day hours, and not at night.

 

My questions: Are businesses allowed (even in Thailand) to use normal street power supplies if using Voltage guzzling equipment or must they pay for their own lines and transformers etc.  My wife does not think our Village Headman will consider it an issue for him.  I am not sure if it is a PEA matter to investigate and resolve (after all we are not getting correct voltages which I understand they are legally required to supply (we are in a city - not rural area).

 

Our neighbour thought it was maybe an issue to refer to mayor.

 

One thing I said to y wife is that this sort of thing will kill items such as Air Cons, freezer and fridges so we need to find a solution.

 

Does anybody know enough Thai law on this matter what our rights are and who we refer to and in what order.

 

Really could do with some sound and factual advice and recommendations

 

Thanks for reading

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Crossy]

PEA should be your first port of call, I know of a member who had similar issues and reported to PEA. Are you using a digital or analog (with a needle) meter?

 

Apparently the establishment in question had been previously warned and was actually disconnected soon afterwards.

 

[Pungdo]

There could be a Bitcoin Miner in the vicinity possibly, from what I understand it can use huge amounts of power ???

[Formaleins]

OP, it is a big PITA, it doesn't take a factory nearby, often it is just some idiot using a high current welder. The local supply is usually crap at the best of times. We used to get voltage drops to below 160Volts. Later they installed a new transformer at the bottom of our supply, works OK if you have the power on first, but if everyone else has everything switched on you are left with the dregs.

 

I agree too, anything that has a motor is going to suffer because of the change in phase at these reduced voltages - don't hold your breath for compensation. This is Thailand! JUST BE HAPPY YOU CAN SWITCH ON A LIGHT!!!

[Formaleins]

27 minutes ago, Pungdo said:

There could be a Bitcoin Miner in the vicinity possibly, from what I understand it can use huge amounts of power ???

More likely to be some idiot with a heavy duty welder. I really wouldn't comp[lain if maybe one in five were fried to death for overloading the supply, but it is like driving here, the innocent get killed and the scumbag that was drunk on the wrong side of the road walks away with a slap on the wrist if they are lucky! Guess it all comes down to Karma!

[maxpower]

Send wife to the good luck temple before dealing with the PEA.

[bankruatsteve]

Forget about law and "rights".  Go to your PEA and be nice.

[hobz]

55 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Forget about law and "rights".  Go to your PEA and be nice.

This! 

Dont make demands, be polite, have a friendly tone,, dont question their answers too much.

Just hear what they say and if you're not satisfied go back again a week later or so.

 

Good luck :)

[Autonuaq]

Just go to the local electricity authorities and tell them your problems

Works very good.

Be polite same as in the west.

And all can be solved very quick

 

Especially when you make the joke that you complain and it actually means that you are very happy with all only now have a challange to be solved.

 

it is not the warehouse.

 

It is just the whole network in the area that has problems we cause phases are not balanced as we have had.

 

70 percent of all power on one phase 25 percent the second and 5 percent on the last.

 

They came and solved all in a few hours.

 

 

[gdhm]

Thanks guys. PEA it will be.

 

Crossy:  Multimeter is Digital but results confirmed by my APC UPS Powerchute software.  What really annoyed me this afternoon is that I was in the middle of a long Windows 10 Fall Creators update (one that you should not switch off in the middle)  half way through the power voltage started dropping to under 175 V and the APC UPS was clicking on  and off several times a minute. In the end its battery sank from 100% to under 10% and my PC closed down. I had to rerun the update and luckily although it had to repeat all that had been done it seems to have completed without any issues resulting from the  first forced sudden shutdown.

These voltage fluctuations are not a matter of me wanting everything near perfect but hey are causing a real nuisance "in the real world" and I know you have said to me in the past that Air Cons, Fridges Freezers do not fair well with volatile voltages and dropping to these sort of levels.

 

Pungdo, maybe I should buy a metal detector and look for one   (I understand even one is worth a great deal of money )

 

Formaleins, compensation never crossed my mind. All I want is a reasonably stable adequate power supply. I do not want my ELC lights all blinking at me. 

 

maxpower, now that's a good alias and what we all would like  . Yeah she's into all that already - don't want to encourage her.

 

bankruatsteve and hobz - Agreed.

 

Autonuag I agree with all that you say except it is not down to one individual. I appreciate the network cannot take it BUT it takes early evening in its stride (just voltage may drop to mid 190s)  BUT I feel there is little doubt that the actions of one place (be it warehouse or other) are triggering the oscillating and big voltage drops. If that was not the case the drops would be more consistent and would not continue for a period of time maybe a fe wmins or 1 or two hours then SUDDENLY cease with voltages returning to stabilty 

 

My wife (after my OP) informed me that the warehouse is owned by the house next to it. The husband and wife  bought the land, next to their house, knocked down the old house on it. and built this quite large (compared to the sizes of the house sin the soi) brick, cement and corrugated irn warehouse. My wife said her neighbours has to put up with a lot of noise at times and paint smells. We are lucky with the noise and paint smells at as little further away. I understand the husband makes gates fences etc. and uses toe warehouse when he has orders. That would explain why we have no oscillating Voltages and large drops issues for week or months, then we get many over a short period of days or a few weeks before ceasing for a why again.  You can tell my wife tend to tell me things on a need to know basis a lot of the time. I do nto speak any Thai and she tries her best to work out waht may be of interest  to me or not.

 

My wife says the wife & husband have a "we were here in the soi first.  I gather when we built our house they were quick to run to another (a closer neighbour of ours who was friendly with them) if they did not like anything our builder was doing. My wife said they said to a neighbour when we first came to the soi 11 years ago. "we were here first and have been here a long time before Farang came. If he wants to do things differently then he can go can go back to his own country (obviously does not like Farangs). I have NO IDEA what that came from, or why.  Today is first I have heard of this, but I understand several others (unless in their clique) are not keen and are wary of this couple. Personally I have never spoken to them  and would not recognize them if I saw them "I keep myself to myself especially as nobody in the soi speaks any English.

 

My wife and I have dealt with the PEA for a year 10 to 11 years ago, when we first built out house.  Voltage would drop to 167+ many summer nights and tube lights sometime could not switch on (we solved that one with electronic ballasts). Most of the year we were "palmed off" by the individuals we were told to see with "we will check it out" but have other jobs  ahead of you, and we have no budget". Finally they offered to fix the problem IF we paid for an extra line, labour  and materials etc.  We were always polite and patient (hence why no progress went on for a year). Luckily for us a member of staff  at the PEA took pity on  us and "out of the ear shot of others" told us to ask for a certain Head of Dept. We did so, and everything changed. He was sympathetic, understanding and reasonable (a charming and pleasant man in fact). He agreed PEA have a responsibility (at it own cost in a City) to provide an adequate supply.  We were told we would have to wait a month or two for the next budget. A short time afterwards an extra line was put in and the whole soi had decent power after a long time of not.  Didn't stop one neighbour jumping to conclusions  and saying "we hope we will not get worse voltage because you are getting yours solved.  Some peoples distrustful, negative ar every disappointing. We had spent a whole year visiting the PEA and at all times we told them it was a whole soi has low voltage issue and we were not seeking a solution at others expense. My wife had told many in the soi this, BUT some people just cannot believe that not everybody is just out for themselves.

 

This is what can happen when you get people in an area for a very long time and before most others move in.  I am told our soi is not particularly popular in the "village" (can't think why not .

 

Anyway looks like we need to be careful and diplomatic and maybe give the reading to the PEA but probably best not to suggest whom we think is responsible - I am sure they will work it out (and as I said I not not sure who is responsible but Warehouse and reported work there would seem the source as we know the voltage in our soi is not strong and easily drops with Air Cons etc. switching on.

 

Thanks again, for all the advice.

[janclaes47]

Not wanting to hijack this thread, but also not important enough to start a new one, I have also some problem which maybe can be answered.

 

I have my own single phase transformer, so am connected to the high voltage.

 

Almost every day around the same time, 10.30am, my connection will shut for a second.

 

Just enough to restart everything in the house.

 

Since it is always around the same time, and at least 3 days a week, this is not an electrical shortage or transformer fault.

 

Any explanation for this, and what I can do about?

[Apache704]

Sir, I also had big fluxuations in the Voltage and I solved the problem by buying a voltage regulator which solved my problem. I haven't had a problem since. Get one that can handle 15,000,20,000 or 30,000 Watts depending on what you are running.

[Jdietz]

2 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

Not wanting to hijack this thread, but also not important enough to start a new one, I have also some problem which maybe can be answered.

 

I have my own single phase transformer, so am connected to the high voltage.

 

Almost every day around the same time, 10.30am, my connection will shut for a second.

 

Just enough to restart everything in the house.

 

Since it is always around the same time, and at least 3 days a week, this is not an electrical shortage or transformer fault.

 

Any explanation for this, and what I can do about?

 

Sounds like an issue at the switching or generating station, if they switch to a different generating facility that is not quite in phase. Instead of a nice fluid switch-in new supply and then detach the old one, it's a complete disconnect and reconnect. Good luck finding anyone that gives a ****. 

 

Only solution is to buy a UPS, and connect your internet boxes, PCs and monitors to it (and another one maybe for TV and cable / iptv box), so it won't inconvenience you too much.

As the cut-outs are very short any cheap UPS will do. (Aim for ~1000THB)

 

[maxpower]

2 hours ago, Jdietz said:

 

Sounds like an issue at the switching or generating station, if they switch to a different generating facility that is not quite in phase. Instead of a nice fluid switch-in new supply and then detach the old one, it's a complete disconnect and reconnect. Good luck finding anyone that gives a ****. 

 

If only it were that simple.

It's all about do what you want where you want and screw everyone else.

 

[Crossy]

@janclaes47 as others have noted it's likely poor switching on the HV network, we get it too, short breaks at regular times. Get a UPS for your technology, easier and more effective than complaining.

 

Back to our OP. If you fail to score with PEA the next alternative (which sadly will cost you money) is an Automatic Voltage Regulator (AVR) very effective for long supply dips (they react fairly slowly so short brown-outs get through), there are several threads on these beasties try a forum search.

[wayned]

I had a similar problem when I built my house 18 years ago.  I am the last house on the line and the village only had a single phase transformer.  Every afternoon the voltage would cycle from 215 and then down to 150 for about 15 seconds and then back up fir 15 seconds.  I contacted PEA and they said that the problem was caused by the equipment at the gravel pit that was about 3/4 kilometer on the other side of the village and that there was nothing that they could do.  They have three dedicated three phase transformers.

 

Then, Puyai got an air conditioner because his mother had had a stroke. After it "blew up" 2 times he contacted PEA and they came out and installed a three phase transformer.  But my line was still connected to the same phase with the problem so I had a local sparky with bolts taped to his shoes climb the pole and switch my line to another phase.  The problem went away and now I just have the normal outages which have been getting better as time passes.

 

So your problem might be phase specific and if you could get PEA to switch you to a different phase it might fix your problem.  Getting PEA to do it is another problem as I had to do it myself!

[bazza73]

Just a suggestion, if the OP can hook up a chart recorder ( independent power source ) to his mains, he could establish proof on paper of when the power fluctuations are occurring. It would put the PEA in a much better position to identify the cause of the problem.

[wayned]

I thought of doing the same thing when I was having problems but where would you rent a chart recorder in the boonies of Thailand.  When PEA came, they already knew exactly what the problem was but declined to fix it until the Puyai's air conditioner went tits up a few times!

[bazza73]

1 hour ago, wayned said:

I thought of doing the same thing when I was having problems but where would you rent a chart recorder in the boonies of Thailand.  When PEA came, they already knew exactly what the problem was but declined to fix it until the Puyai's air conditioner went tits up a few times!

I would think the science departments of most universities would have them. They could tell you if your Thai is good enough.

[Crossy]

A video of an analog voltmeter connected to the supply may be sufficient to give to PEA and it's easy to set up.

 

What you really want is a Power Quality Analyser which major electrical contractors may have, or you could make one using an Arduino or Raspberry-pi.

 

Fetching my coat ...

[gdhm]

Hi all, not ignoring all your great advice and helpful comments. I have been out today.

 

UPDATE

I think I can confirm that the Warehouse is NOT the current (not a pun) culprit.  I heard electrical equipment noises up the road where the Warehouse is when I came home today, so out of curiosity I wandered in that direction to take look (just my luck as I started to return the Husband came home and saw me. Anyway, I think it is his son and his workers are the cause as they happen to be building a couple large looking extensions to front of the house OPPOSITE the warehouse (which until today I was a totally unaware of).  I am not sure what they are building exactly but they seem to be building a roof frame and the bases for the extension seem (at quick glance) to be based upon a raised metal based frame.  Looks to me that corrugated iron is going to be used as well (maybe one extension is a car parking bay cover.  Not sure what it will all look like when finished as it looks mostly metal based building going on rather than brick and concrete.  I could see two maybe 1 metre by 1½ metre oblong brightly coloured metal units with a few electrical knobs on them. Being a total amateur on these matters may be large welding main boxes or maybe power convertors. To be honest I have no idea what they are. I also saw what looked like a largish apple green painted compressor (like the much smaller versions I have seen used by Motor bike repairers to blow up tyres. 

 

Anyway  at the end of the day I think it HIGHLY likely with all the metal work that is currently going on over there, that this work is the real cause of the current power issues (not the warehouse that sounded silent from outside today).  One thing that is pleasing is that this should be a short term once off issue and hopefully things should return to normal when  completed (unless warehouse gets new work).

 

My wife is NOT keen to risk upsetting the couple but still said we should speak to the PEA. I pointed out to her that she and I having been spotted taking a look today, that  if PEA shows up then they will guess who instigated it. Beyond that I consider myself to be a reasonable person and as we have every reason to think this will cease in a few weeks. I also am assuming that when our largish house was built 11 years ago with a large metal roof frame I now feel it highly likely, we caused similar voltage drops that affected others in the soi at that time which would never have occurred to me (not being a builder or understanding the weak Thai power supply. even worse, back then maximum normal voltages for the soi were not as high as now).  Bearing these facts in mind, I have decided not to be hypocritical and to let things lie for a few weeks and see if issue goes away by itself before considering going to PEA. I am also mindful in this area of the country people are mostly very poor and I think understanding and patience applies in this case unless it lasts a long time, or continues regularly afterwards if work in the warehouse is of a similar nature or voltage requirements. Certainly if things do not go bacxk to normal in a few weeks then I would not be able to turn a blind eye to my PC cutting out because of others' voltage demands causing my PC UPS battery to become almost totally depleted from 100% charged, due to it having to keep taking over and not having sufficient time to recharge in between the low drops in voltage. I have today set the UPS to cut in at 175V and low sensitivity as PC seem OK with that and reducing it to that level stops the UPS battery depleting as fast.

 

Well guys as it is now 1:30am I'm off to bed for some shut eye

Kind regards to all

 

[Crossy]

What you describe does sound like industrial strength welding kit, even our baby welder does interesting things to our normally (reasonably) stable supply so I suspect you are right in that being the source of the current issues.

 

Of course if the same activities are going on in the warehouse ...

 

[Crossy]

If you decide to go the AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulator) route Golbal House have a good selection from LiOA and V.E.G.

 

Prices are the same for equivalent units, the V.E.G. units are rather less industrial looking, important if it's going in the lounge area like ours.

 

 

 

[carlyai]

If you decide to go the AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulator) route Golbal House have a good selection from LiOA and V.E.G.
 
Prices are the same for equivalent units, the V.E.G. units are rather less industrial looking, important if it's going in the lounge area like ours.
 

 

 

I've got 3 LiOA humming away. Trouble is getting service information, but that may be gradually changing.
One meter reads high voltage (fault somewhere, which I still ain't fixed) but the output is fine.
They do a great job, but don't track large band bass notes or compensate when PEA incorrectly fixes a phase fault.
I like the look of the VEG better.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[bankruatsteve]

I too have a LiOA (3.5KVA) that has been doing it's job for most of this year.  The VEG wasn't available at that time.  Anybody know pro vs con for those?

 

On my unit, the volt meter is scaled strangely and makes reading it with any precision difficult.  The ammeter either missed quality check or is defective as it doesn't even move the needle until 5 or more amps.

 

And, without technical details, I am only guessing that it only has one step-down transition versus several for step-up.  My problem is high voltage (235-245 normal) and anything above 229v will have a proportionate increase on the AVS output.  (eg:  238v in will yield 226v out)  That doesn't seem to bother anything though.

 

Anyway... I also have a watt meter for both of my CU closets (one is before AVS and the other is after) and suggest same for anyone wanting to know what's going on instead of trying to guess what the meters on the AVS are saying.

[Crossy]

43 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Anybody know pro vs con for those?

The V.E.G. looks rather more in fitting for a domestic environment, the LiOA is decidedly "industrial" in appearance.

 

The V.E.G. also specifies that it regulates from 130V - 260V input, it may (or may not) have an over/under disconnect as it has Overvolt and Undervolt lights. The "manual" is basically useless, doesn't even tell one how to connect it up, not that it's rocket science.

 

I'm going to start a thread on these things as I've finally bought one following a "disco" incident last week making me actually look at our supply characteristics, my measurements did reveal some interesting facts.