Plastic Rubbish Everywhere

[simon43]

When I first visited Thailand - some 15 years ago, my impressions were 'nice country, shame about all the rubbish'.

That view has not changed ...

I was brought up and taught not to drop litter. You put it in a litter bin or took it home with you. One outcome of the IRA bombings in the UK is that there are (still), very few litter bins in transport areas. But people don't drop their litter as a result. They take it home with them or wait to find a litter bin.

Here in Thailand, my own experience shows me that it is Thai people, not tourists who drop the majority of the litter.

How on earth can Thai people be proud of their country when they make it so untidy and dirty??

I assume that Thais are never taught not to drop litter, or are not taught about the consequences, (eg, unhappy tourists, rats etc)

This litter problem really irks me, and I want to do something about it.

Yes, I can go out and start picking up litter. That's a good start for my immediate environment. But are there any suggestions as to how us foreigners can try to persuade Thai people to look after their own country a bit better? (I'm thinking here about 'face')

What about wearing a T-shirt that shows a caucasian picking up some litter and the slogan in Thai 'Farang care about Thailand, why don't you?'

Of course, such an 'in your face' approach might lead to a violent confrontation!!

I'm open to suggestions

Simon

[Jet Gorgon]

Just pick it all up, Simon. You're a star!

[rak sa_ngop]

I was brought up and taught not to drop litter. You put it in a litter bin or took it home with you. One outcome of the IRA bombings in the UK is that there are (still), very few litter bins in transport areas. But people don't drop their litter as a result. They take it home with them or wait to find a litter bin.

One outcome of the New Year bombings in Thailand is that there are very few litter bins in public areas.

A few days ago the new litter bins in Lumphini park were all rounded up. They were only installed 2 weeks before!

Pity the poor people who make a living out of collecting plastic bottles from the bins (including the farang in the red shirt).

[LaoPo]

The Ministries of Culture and Education should start a Nation-wide educational program, for at least 5 years to come.

Reward the (small) children for picking rubbish/garbage and fine the litters.

It's the only way.

ps:

LaoPo

Edited January 11, 2007 by LaoPo

[Thug]

When I first visited Thailand - some 15 years ago, my impressions were 'nice country, shame about all the rubbish'.

That view has not changed ...

I was brought up and taught not to drop litter. You put it in a litter bin or took it home with you. One outcome of the IRA bombings in the UK is that there are (still), very few litter bins in transport areas. But people don't drop their litter as a result. They take it home with them or wait to find a litter bin.

Here in Thailand, my own experience shows me that it is Thai people, not tourists who drop the majority of the litter.

How on earth can Thai people be proud of their country when they make it so untidy and dirty??

I assume that Thais are never taught not to drop litter, or are not taught about the consequences, (eg, unhappy tourists, rats etc)

This litter problem really irks me, and I want to do something about it.

Yes, I can go out and start picking up litter. That's a good start for my immediate environment. But are there any suggestions as to how us foreigners can try to persuade Thai people to look after their own country a bit better? (I'm thinking here about 'face')

What about wearing a T-shirt that shows a caucasian picking up some litter and the slogan in Thai 'Farang care about Thailand, why don't you?'

Of course, such an 'in your face' approach might lead to a violent confrontation!!

I'm open to suggestions

Simon

100% agreed.

Is it because Thai people are way too lazy to even find a Trash bin? Or it might be carelessness?

Have seen some roads/streets here that are just packed with trash. A nasty situation.

[mbkudu]

When I first visited Thailand - some 15 years ago, my impressions were 'nice country, shame about all the rubbish'.

That view has not changed ...

I was brought up and taught not to drop litter. You put it in a litter bin or took it home with you. One outcome of the IRA bombings in the UK is that there are (still), very few litter bins in transport areas. But people don't drop their litter as a result. They take it home with them or wait to find a litter bin.

Here in Thailand, my own experience shows me that it is Thai people, not tourists who drop the majority of the litter.

How on earth can Thai people be proud of their country when they make it so untidy and dirty??

I assume that Thais are never taught not to drop litter, or are not taught about the consequences, (eg, unhappy tourists, rats etc)

This litter problem really irks me, and I want to do something about it.

Yes, I can go out and start picking up litter. That's a good start for my immediate environment. But are there any suggestions as to how us foreigners can try to persuade Thai people to look after their own country a bit better? (I'm thinking here about 'face')

What about wearing a T-shirt that shows a caucasian picking up some litter and the slogan in Thai 'Farang care about Thailand, why don't you?'

Of course, such an 'in your face' approach might lead to a violent confrontation!!

I'm open to suggestions

Simon

I'm sorry sir, but I believe you will need a work permit before you engage in such activities. Volunteer work requires a work permit just as paid work does.

[mbkudu]

Pity the poor people who make a living out of collecting plastic bottles from the bins.

Would you not pity him more after his arms are blown off?

[ThaiGoon]

When I was little (10 or 15 years ago perhaps, and I'm Thai by the way), there used to be a huge public campaign to not drop litter and put it properly in a bin. It was called, "Ta Viset" (= "Marvellous Eyes"?) The ad compaign was run on tv almost every single day, and I still remember its song to these days. The song goes something like this (rough translation): Marvellous eyes, Marvellous eyes, don't drop litter. Marvellous eyes can see you. Properly put it in a litter bin....

When I was a kid, I was actually quite annoyed whenever this ad came up on tv. But I have never vere dropped litter in public places. I don't know why there has not been such a rally or campaign again when it's pretty obvious that the country does need one now. You guys, farangs, might be shocked to hear (or read) this from a Thai, but yeah all this plastic rubbish annoys the hel_l out of me too.

[ThaiGoon]

100% agreed.

Is it because Thai people are way too lazy to even find a Trash bin? Or it might be carelessness?

Have seen some roads/streets here that are just packed with trash. A nasty situation.

To be honest with you, I think it's a combination of lazines, carelessness and lack of discipline...

[steveromagnino]

100% agreed.

Is it because Thai people are way too lazy to even find a Trash bin? Or it might be carelessness?

Have seen some roads/streets here that are just packed with trash. A nasty situation.

To be honest with you, I think it's a combination of lazines, carelessness and lack of discipline...

I am part Thai also, and it annoys me. So.... I spent a half day walking along Bangsaen beach picking up rubbish in just one section to see how much I could personally clean.

A few university students joined me, and we actually got quite a bit done.

On a grass root level ,that made a visible difference for a few weeks.

At a political level, Thaksin type 'I'll look after you for everything' policy has removed the responsibility element of cleaning up, looking after yourself, etc etc. They need the ad; in fact prior to the whole alchohol ad ban thing, I had a concept I was pitching to a liquor company to organise monthly rallies at each beach to clean up the mess. No chance of that now; still looking for a way to make it happen.

1. Make a personal difference; spend at least 5 minutes a day cleaning certain areas; people will learn by example. Encourage the kids in the area to do the same

2. Don't confront people with a T shirt like that; you wear the 'farang care about Thailond don't you is a bit confrontational plus many farang don't give a toss about anything other than cheap Isaan prostitutes - I like the

idea though; maybe something a bit more mild and non racial

3. If you want to push it further, go to the local school and try to arrange once a month they do a rubbish collection in some area by class; class collecting the most trash gets some prize

DOn't wait for govt/council to do anything; they suck. Get onto it yourself and bring in the private sector yo.

[old wanderer]

About 12 years ago I moved into a Thai style house with a young lady. She was always throwing plastic water bottles, empty cans out the window to collect on the ground around the house.

Naturally I yelled at her about this....Her reply..""not to worry, in 2 or 3 months the river will take it all away....(She was right) 10 weeks later we had 2 feet under our house.

It is not included in the gene pool me thinks

[Neeranam]

2. Don't confront people with a T shirt like that; you wear the 'farang care about Thailond don't you is a bit confrontational plus many farang don't give a toss about anything other than cheap Isaan prostitutes - I like the

idea though; maybe something a bit more mild and non racial

[ThaiGoon]

Good points, steveromagnino.

[John K]

It is a bit of a problem because of the bombs. Even the bins on the skytrain stations are gone. The only way I can see is transparent bins and security cameras on the bins. That may take a while but it does discourage people who would put bombs there.

[naka]

The sad thing is ... they don't even see the filth !

When you are brought up looking at a pig pen every day, it just does not seem important !

Naka.

[pampal]

New anti-bomb trash cans have been developed for use in troubled countries.

Constructed of thick plastic reinforced with kevlar.

They actually lessen the deadly effects of a bomb.

Perfect for Thailand

[Griffin]

The lack of will power Thais posses never fails to stagger me. There was a respectable lady on my floor who would just drop her waste outside of her door (and im not talking about a low rent flop house) and would walk past the bin to get to the lift. So I used to hang it on her door handle.

As time passed, a good length of time before she 'got it', she was able to drop it next to the bin or on the bin but seemed stumped at the whole IN THE BIN idea.

I saw her do it one day and called after her and with a huge smile and the kind of action one would entertain a child with, I showed her the entire lid lifting process. She seemed very insulted that a nasty horrible farang had a problem with litter dumped in his, her, everybody's corridor.

It's just lazyness. Pure and simple.

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

My wife chucks garbage around in Thailand that she wouldn't dream of doing in other countries.

She says "its okay, because this is Thailand and i'm Thai"

I say "well its not actually okay"

If westerners choose to pick it up, thats just going to encourage them to chuck even more, mindful that someone is dim enough to deal with it.

[meadish_sweetball]

My wife chucks garbage around in Thailand that she wouldn't dream of doing in other countries.

She says "its okay, because this is Thailand and i'm Thai"

I say "well its not actually okay"

If westerners choose to pick it up, thats just going to encourage them to chuck even more, mindful that someone is dim enough to deal with it.

I've done it a few times in tourist places and in two cases it made Thais follow suit when they caught on to what I was doing. Still a long way to go, but if you persist in being an example you may at least change the way one or two more people think, or make the ones who think but do nothing take action.

I really don't see any other way of changing the situation, so I will stick with it for now.

The penalty system doesnt work because of poor enforcement, and it isn't a political issue except where people get rubbish dumped in their back yard. It might become a political issue in 10-20 years if nothing changes though.

[ZZZ]

Thai people are the cleanest and tidiest people I have seen, when it comes to their own “area” of responsibility. They are always nicely dressed, freshly ironed shirts and pants. Their home is usually spotless. Their area at work is usually very clean.

The problem is that they have no problems of dropping the garbage just outside their own gate, dropping litter anywhere on the streets or generally just don’t care as long as it’s not in their own “area”.

They know the difference between a clean environment and a trash heap. Most Thais I have talked to that have traveled abroad always comment on how clean it is outside Thailand.

One of the cleanest places I have seen in Asia is Puerto Princessa in the Philippines. The Mayor there started to enforce the law to the letter and handed out heavy penalties, using the population as snitches, with a handsome reward to anyone telling on a litter bug. The result is a spotless environment that everyone can enjoy.

They do have laws against littering but like with most other laws there is no enforcement. What is needed is strict enforcement and education from an early age.

All us farangs can do is to make a good example, never litter and pick-up trash if you see it. Picking up something someone just dropped, when they see it, is usually a good lesson.

[PhilHarries]

I think a lot of it comes from a simple inability to appreciate "cause and effect" and this affects many facets of life in Thailand.

Most Thais will agree that the carpet of litter that swamps many areas is bad but they cannot make the connection with the plastic bag they just threw out the car window. "But it's only one small plastic bag". But if 60 million people each throw one bag out the window per day, in a week that's 420 million bags and in a year nearly 22 billion.

On a visit to Doi Suthep I strolled to the edge wall to admire the view. Looking down was a different picture indeed, a veritable stream of rubbish sacks rolling down the mountainside.

It's not just a Thai thing, most of S. E. Asia is little more than a rubbish tip. In the middle east, Bahrain, there were absolutely beautiful houses surrounded by 3 metre high walls over which the rubbish sacks were thrown and left to accumulate or get torn apart by scavengers.

One thing that needs to be addressed is the sheer volume of domestic waste generated not only in Thailand but the hole world. We use far too much packaging often putting purchases, already in packets, inside a plastic bag and then combining several of these bags within another bag when one would have done the job. A start could be made if shops gave a discount to people who provided their own carrier bags but this kind of initiative was tried in the west and failed miserably.

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

A propos nothing, has anyone ever wee'ed into a klong. *

An extra mark if you did it whilst on a boat.

*Don't frown. Bangkok's klongs are 99% sewage anyway.

[Mid]

Thai people are the cleanest and tidiest people I have seen, when it comes to their own “area” of responsibility. They are always nicely dressed, freshly ironed shirts and pants. Their home is usually spotless. Their area at work is usually very clean.

The problem is that they have no problems of dropping the garbage just outside their own gate, dropping litter anywhere on the streets or generally just don’t care as long as it’s not in their own “area”.

They know the difference between a clean environment and a trash heap. Most Thais I have talked to that have traveled abroad always comment on how clean it is outside Thailand.

One of the cleanest places I have seen in Asia is Puerto Princessa in the Philippines. The Mayor there started to enforce the law to the letter and handed out heavy penalties, using the population as snitches, with a handsome reward to anyone telling on a litter bug. The result is a spotless environment that everyone can enjoy.

They do have laws against littering but like with most other laws there is no enforcement. What is needed is strict enforcement and education from an early age.

All us farangs can do is to make a good example, never litter and pick-up trash if you see it. Picking up something someone just dropped, when they see it, is usually a good lesson.

my country , not my land ..............

aside from that , we farangs introduced the plastic ..................

throwing away a banana leaf was a no brainer ( 6 mths 1/2 life at best )

[Thai-Spy]

The lack of will power Thais posses never fails to stagger me. There was a respectable lady on my floor who would just drop her waste outside of her door (and im not talking about a low rent flop house) and would walk past the bin to get to the lift. So I used to hang it on her door handle.

As time passed, a good length of time before she 'got it', she was able to drop it next to the bin or on the bin but seemed stumped at the whole IN THE BIN idea.

I saw her do it one day and called after her and with a huge smile and the kind of action one would entertain a child with, I showed her the entire lid lifting process. She seemed very insulted that a nasty horrible farang had a problem with litter dumped in his, her, everybody's corridor.

It's just lazyness. Pure and simple.

It's not simply laziness. It's that Thais have a substantially different perception of their rights in and duties to what we conceive of as public space, which involves, in part, what what one should do in public (or permit oneself to be seen doing in public).

But to extend your example, here's another direct observation: Two trash bins in the elevator lobby of one floor of an apartment building. One bin with its lid open, which gradually fills with trash, then has a mountain of trash rising from it and eventually bags of trash piled next to it. The lid of the second bin remains closed and the bin goes unused until a farang opens it.

The question of "why" is not so easy to answer. It may be in part because of the view that the spill-over of trash isn't viewed as being all that important. Or it may be seen as someone else's problem; a view that exists in all cultures to one degree or another with regard to certain things. The lid of the second can may not be opened because one doesn't want to be seen as the type of person who touches garbage cans, or that the Thai system of rote learning just doesn't lead people to seek the seemingly obvious alternate solution that's right in front of them.

What does seem pretty clear is that most Thais don't yet have much willingness to act in such a way as to protect their environment beyond the interior of their own home. But before we condemn too harshly, let's keep in mind that for Westerners the current standards of public sanitation are still relatively recent innovations. The urban streets and rural lanes of the West used to be fair game as trash dumps only a few decades ago and open sewers and uncontrolled waste discharge aren't that far in our own countries' pasts.

There needs to be a comprehensive educational program, one that illustrates both why sanitation is good for society as well as the individual and his or her family. But it must be rooted in existing Thai cultural values to have any hope of success. Whatever form it ultimately takes, we sincerely hope it is successful.

[GuestHouse]

A good post by Simon43.

This topic is right up on my list of Thai agrivations. Leading by example is I believe the only real option. I've organized a couple of clean ups and I've also gone around collecting broken glass on beaches. Many Thais are willing join in when they see a foreigner picking up trash.

[naka]

A good post by Simon43.

This topic is right up on my list of Thai agrivations. Leading by example is I believe the only real option. I've organized a couple of clean ups and I've also gone around collecting broken glass on beaches. Many Thais are willing join in when they see a foreigner picking up trash.

Silly boy Guesthouse ... They think you've dropped your two baht chain :D

Naka.

[Jet Gorgon]

Dunno, it's something about public resonsibility values. In the West, you try to be courteous to strangers. Not the same in Asia. Maybe anything outside of the family or home is not considered one's responsibility. We are thinking of these problems as farangs. I used to get POed when someone walked through a door in front of me and did not hold it open for me. Different sets of streetwise conditioning.

[samtam]

Dropping litter is not a problem unique to Thailand. The problem is a serious one in many parts of UK, especially the countryside. For a while I used to live in Edinburgh, one of the most beautiful cities architecturally and the New Town a World Heritage Site, but the litter problem was appalling, and I used to try and lead by example in my own elegant Georgian crescent, but I don't think it made that much of a difference. What always amazes me here in Bangkok is how relatively clean the streets actually are, but that's probably because there's an army of sweepers. I think it's correct to observe that a lot of people, (Thais included) think that anything outside their front door is not their problem, and especially as far as litter is concerned it's beneath them to pick up their own, and certainly someone else's. This attitude makes them superior, (in their eyes), and it's a cultural thing, where superiority and ranking have to be observed.

[dave111223]

Ever seen any uprooted slum? There was a kind of shanty town slum down there street from me that got pulled up (for whatever reason). When people moved their shacks all that was left was like 2 inches of solid trash (plastic, paper, cardboard, cans, bottles etc...).

It seems the entire time the slum had been there everyone just threw their trash under their house....

If people dont mind living amongst their own trash how are you supposed to teach them not to through trash in other areas (where they dont even have to sleep)?

[Cool Water Palace]

Thai people are the cleanest and tidiest people I have seen, when it comes to their own “area” of responsibility. They are always nicely dressed, freshly ironed shirts and pants. Their home is usually spotless. Their area at work is usually very clean.

The problem is that they have no problems of dropping the garbage just outside their own gate, dropping litter anywhere on the streets or generally just don’t care as long as it’s not in their own “area”.

They know the difference between a clean environment and a trash heap. Most Thais I have talked to that have traveled abroad always comment on how clean it is outside Thailand.

One of the cleanest places I have seen in Asia is Puerto Princessa in the Philippines. The Mayor there started to enforce the law to the letter and handed out heavy penalties, using the population as snitches, with a handsome reward to anyone telling on a litter bug. The result is a spotless environment that everyone can enjoy.

They do have laws against littering but like with most other laws there is no enforcement. What is needed is strict enforcement and education from an early age.

All us farangs can do is to make a good example, never litter and pick-up trash if you see it. Picking up something someone just dropped, when they see it, is usually a good lesson.

my country , not my land ..............

aside from that , we farangs introduced the plastic ..................

throwing away a banana leaf was a no brainer ( 6 mths 1/2 life at best )

And in the UK at least we seem to be shipping our used plastic bags and packaging, etc to Asia for processing - China in fact. An item on Sky news last night showed container ships bringing consumer electronics, and taking trash back. The main problem is their poor methods of dealing with it - creating toxic poisoning in workers in a city I've already forgotten the name of. As the reporter said, most people outside the country have never heard of most modern cities in China. I suppose not as bad as computer dismantling in Nigeria (and selling all those email addresses!) and boat breaking in Pakistan.

The reporter found some junk mail addressed to someone in Sevenoaks, I think, and she took it back to him. He was a bit disappointed about the outcome of his recycling efforts.