Michael Bloomberg: Brexit is stupidest thing any country has done besides Trump

[nong38]

2 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Trump isn't as stupid as Brexit.

Trump will be gone in less than10 years, it will take at least 40 years to recover from Brexit - that's when we finally rejoin the EU.

The UK will never re join the EU, even the Juncker man has said that the UK will not allowed back, do try and keep up!

As for Trump he did not get where he is today by being stupid, they said the same about Reagan and he turned out to be one of the best Presidents of all time.

[oldhippy]

4 minutes ago, nong38 said:

They were given a simple choice in or out with ambiguity. A number of issues for people to consider, list your pros and cons and make your decision. 

The people voted to leave by 52-48 % and I suspect that if it were to be re run  today the margin would be far wider. There will be no 2nd referendum, accept it and get on with life.

555

If you are in favour of referenda, surely you do not object against a Brentry referendum, the day after Brexit?

 

[Khun Han]

9 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

555

If you are in favour of referenda, surely you do not object against a Brentry referendum, the day after Brexit?

 

 

Nah. We had to wait 41 years for our referendum after the referendum on the EEC. We'll be generous and allow a referendum 21 years after the 'out' one.

[dick dasterdly]

15 minutes ago, nong38 said:

They were given a simple choice in or out with ambiguity. A number of issues for people to consider, list your pros and cons and make your decision. 

The people voted to leave by 52-48 % and I suspect that if it were to be re run  today the margin would be far wider. There will be no 2nd referendum, accept it and get on with life.

I agree as by now everyone realises that both sides lied, and are likely even more sceptical of the fear tactics used prior to the referendum.

 

Edit - Personally, I always remember cedric brown (the original 'fat cat'?) and even though george osborne's lies were entirely different - they're in the same 'anything for my own cause' group....

Edited November 3, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[oldhippy]

4 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Nah. We had to wait 41 years for our referendum after the referendum on the EEC. We'll be generous and allow a referendum 21 years after the 'out' one.

That is not an answer to my question.

 

More fundamentally: Are you in favour of a parliamentary democracy or a direct democracy (referenda)? Or in favour of whatever suits you in a given situation?

 

PS. You said "We". Who is "We"? The 52%?

[Airbagwill]

22 minutes ago, nong38 said:

The UK will never re join the EU, even the Juncker man has said that the UK will not allowed back, do try and keep up!

As for Trump he did not get where he is today by being stupid, they said the same about Reagan and he turned out to be one of the best Presidents of all time.

Cut and paste this classic for my facebook!

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Airbagwill said:

Cut and paste this classic for my facebook!

I'm sure we're all now desperate to read your facebook, but you forgot to add a link .

[dick dasterdly]

25 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

555

If you are in favour of referenda, surely you do not object against a Brentry referendum, the day after Brexit?

 

We've been through this scores of times - but " the day after Brexit" is a new one and holds zero merit whatsoever.

[Khun Han]

5 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

That is not an answer to my question.

 

More fundamentally: Are you in favour of a parliamentary democracy or a direct democracy (referenda)? Or in favour of whatever suits you in a given situation?

 

PS. You said "We". Who is "We"? The 52%?

 

"That is not an answer to my question."

 

Yes it is.

 

"More fundamentally: Are you in favour of a parliamentary democracy or a direct democracy (referenda)? Or in favour of whatever suits you in a given situation?"

 

I'm in favour of following the law of the UK. Which is to have a referendum on any issue which will affect our sovereignty. As Ted Heath took us into the EEC without a referendum (which was an illegal and treasonous act), and the following Labour government held a retrospective referendum without making loss of sovereignty a central issue (thus rendering the referendum borderline illegal), we had to have a proper referendunm which had the sovereignty issue at the forefront, which we got last year.

 

"PS. You said "We". Who is "We"? The 52%?"

 

Yes. It was a tongue-in-cheek remark btw.

[CG1 Blue]

31 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

555

If you are in favour of referenda, surely you do not object against a Brentry referendum, the day after Brexit?

 

The referendum was a once in a generation chance.  It wasn't the best of 3.

 

By the way, if there was a 2nd referendum and the split was 70/30 in favour of leaving (which is highly likely now), would you accept the result then? If so perhaps we should do it, just to put the whole issue to bed.

[oldhippy]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

We've been through this scores of times - but " the day after Brexit" is a new one and holds zero merit whatsoever.

I do not understand.

Never again a referendum? Is that what you say?

 

[Grouse]

The real reason that Brexiters are against any further referendum or even discussion on the topic is that they can't believe their luck. They are terrified that the genie might be put back in the lamp. They know, deep down, that all the smart people, all the intellectuals, all the pointy heads are against Brexit. They also know that demographics are against them. We'll see ?

[sirineou]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The real reason that Brexiters are against any further referendum or even discussion on the topic is that they can't believe their luck. They are terrified that the genie might be put back in the lamp. They know, deep down, that all the smart people, all the intellectuals, all the pointy heads are against Brexit. They also know that demographics are against them. We'll see ?

 I am surprised that a matter of this importance was decided by a simple majority. The powers to be ,should have known that a simple majority decision, one way or another" would be divisive to say the least. Now I don't know how you all move forward without one side or the other feeling slighted  .

Edited November 3, 2017 by sirineou

[oldhippy]

10 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

The referendum was a once in a generation chance.  It wasn't the best of 3.

 

By the way, if there was a 2nd referendum and the split was 70/30 in favour of leaving (which is highly likely now), would you accept the result then? If so perhaps we should do it, just to put the whole issue to bed.

Yes of course - and is not up to me as a European to accept it or not. All I do is discuss the ideas behind it. And I think it is a bad idea yes......

 

[dick dasterdly]

20 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The real reason that Brexiters are against any further referendum or even discussion on the topic is that they can't believe their luck. They are terrified that the genie might be put back in the lamp. They know, deep down, that all the smart people, all the intellectuals, all the pointy heads are against Brexit. They also know that demographics are against them. We'll see ?

I've no doubt that you believe this to be true as you consider yourself far more intelligent/better educated and therefore worthy of ignoring the thoughts of those living a far less desirable existence (heavy sigh)......

 

 i.e. In your mind, those that voted leave.....

 

 

Edited November 3, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[oldhippy]

19 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

"That is not an answer to my question."

 

Yes it is.

 

"More fundamentally: Are you in favour of a parliamentary democracy or a direct democracy (referenda)? Or in favour of whatever suits you in a given situation?"

 

I'm in favour of following the law of the UK. Which is to have a referendum on any issue which will affect our sovereignty. As Ted Heath took us into the EEC without a referendum (which was an illegal and treasonous act), and the following Labour government held a retrospective referendum without making loss of sovereignty a central issue (thus rendering the referendum borderline illegal), we had to have a proper referendunm which had the sovereignty issue at the forefront, which we got last year.

 

"PS. You said "We". Who is "We"? The 52%?"

 

Yes. It was a tongue-in-cheek remark btw.

In plain English please, and without referring to the past:

 

Was this the last referendum ever, or can a Brentry referendum be organised whenever parliament wants it?

[vogie]

18 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The real reason that Brexiters are against any further referendum or even discussion on the topic is that they can't believe their luck. They are terrified that the genie might be put back in the lamp. They know, deep down, that all the smart people, all the intellectuals, all the pointy heads are against Brexit. They also know that demographics are against them. We'll see ?

I would back these two againgst you, err, standing on their heads. 

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I've no doubt that you believe this to be true as you consider yourself far more intelligent/better educated and therefore worthy of ignoring the thoughts of those living a far less desirable existence (heavy sigh)......

 

 i.e. Those that voted leave.

 

 

Yep!

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

I would back these two againgst you, err, standing on their heads. 

Sorry, aggaign?

[dick dasterdly]

18 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I do not understand.

Never again a referendum? Is that what you say?

 

That's because you've only recently joined the debate, so have missed out on the various cries for another 'immediate' referendum......

[oldhippy]

Just now, dick dasterdly said:

That's because you've only recently joined the debate, so have missed out on the various cries for another 'immediate' referendum......

Is that a yes or a no for the possibility of a new referendum?

 

And I only recently joined the debate? Come on please.

 

 

 

[Caps]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Yep!

trust me Grouse, you are not special, and as I have said before, as a so called intellegent man as so are so keen a telling us then you should know better then to belittle those you think are beneath you.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Caps

[aright]

28 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 They know, deep down, that all the smart people, all the intellectuals, all the pointy heads are against Brexit. 

Smart? Intellectual? You must be the one exception then.

[dick dasterdly]

5 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Is that a yes or a no for the possibility of a new referendum?

 

And I only recently joined the debate? Come on please.

 

 

 

Deleted.

 

Khun Han is right re. the poster trying to derail the thread even further.

Edited November 3, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[oldhippy]

6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Yes, otherwise you would know that the call for another referendum (because the electorate has changed its mind) started a few days after the vote.

If you believe in referenda, what is wrong with organising many of them?

 

In a parliamentary democracy, parliament can change it's own laws any time.

In a direct democracy (referenda), new referenda can be orgainsed any time.

No?

 

[aright]

3 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

If you believe in referenda, what is wrong with organising many of them?

 

In a parliamentary democracy, parliament can change it's own laws any time.

In a direct democracy (referenda), new referenda can be orgainsed any time.

No?

 

One good reason is the cost of a referendum. The EU referendum is estimated to have cost £142 million of tax payers money.

One shameful cost in that estimate is the government paid in almost £10 million(once again of taxpayers money) to produce pro EU propaganda leaflets.

We leavers won't be taking any lectures about alternative facts or democracy from the Remainers  that's for sure. 

[Caps]

43 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I've no doubt that you believe this to be true as you consider yourself far more intelligent/better educated and therefore worthy of ignoring the thoughts of those living a far less desirable existence (heavy sigh)......

 

 i.e. In your mind, those that voted leave.....

 

 

Yep, and if it wasnt for those less educated, as he says, looking after the country, i.e the Police , Fire, Ambulance Services,  All the Military Services then Pompous people wouldnt be around to be Pompous  

Edited November 3, 2017 by Caps

[oldhippy]

The reason why I am interested in the brexit debate is not that I want to tell the British what they should do.

I follow the debate because I am interested in macro economics - I was a lecturer m e before.

I want to know and understand the various arguments.

That is why I ask questions and reply to opinions.

 

International, regional integration or not? Of what type? And how much?

Should these decisions be based on simple majorities or not?

Parliamentary democracy or direct democracy?

Who should have a say in entry and exit?

What is the financial cost / benefit for who?

And many more.

 

And yes, it pisses me off having to lose my time with replies that basically say " I am right, because I know I am right".

 

 

[aright]

30 minutes ago, Caps said:

Yep, and if it wasnt for those less educated, as he says, looking after the country, i.e the Police , Fire, Ambulance Services,  All the Military Services then Pompous people wouldnt be around to be Pompous  

I say old chap, steady on!

[oldhippy]

.

Edited November 3, 2017 by oldhippy
post deleted, I am not going to lower my standards to yours