Michael Bloomberg: Brexit is stupidest thing any country has done besides Trump

[Khun Han]

6 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

So you voted without the slightest indication of what the consequences of your vote would be?

Sounds like you were not in favour of something, but rather against everything.

Again, I wish you good luck, you will need it.

 

 

No. I made (and continue to make) judgements based on the actual evidence. Your crystal ball tells you that I (and the UK) will need good luck. Like I said, I hope you have a better crystal ball supplier than the economic forecasters: they are still getting it hopelessly wrong sixteen months after the referendum. My judgements are proving to be correct so far: that the forecast economic doom is nothing more than scaremongering by powerful vested interests which were onto a very cushy number with the EU (with the EU giving those vested interests control of the labour market, etc) , and which will end up adapting to brexit out of necessity once it becomes a reality, without any great short-term harm to the UK. And there will be immense medium and long-term gain to the UK out of the EU. All imo, of course.

[oldhippy]

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

No. I made (and continue to make) judgements based on the actual evidence. Your crystal ball tells you that I (and the UK) will need good luck. Like I said, I hope you have a better crystal ball supplier than the economic forecasters: they are still getting it hopelessly wrong sixteen months after the referendum. My judgements are proving to be correct so far: that the forecast economic doom is nothing more than scaremongering by powerful vested interests which were onto a very cushy number with the EU (with the EU giving those vested interests control of the labour market, etc) , and which will end up adapting to brexit out of necessity once it becomes a reality, without any great short-term harm to the UK. And there will be immense medium and long-term gain to the UK out of the EU. All imo, of course.

I insist that you give me the name of your crystal ball supplier.

 

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

I insist that you give me the name of your crystal ball supplier.

 

 

I could, but then I'd have to kill you. All I will say on this is that I don't share the same supplier as Andy Haldane.

[oldhippy]

16 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I could, but then I'd have to kill you. All I will say on this is that I don't share the same supplier as Andy Haldane.

555

Economists are good at explaining why something has happened - but not at predicting.

(I was a macro economist myself)

And there is a difference between short and long term - but as that other British economist Keynes said, in the long run we are all dead.

 

[Airbagwill]

On 11/3/2017 at 4:49 PM, nong38 said:

They were given a simple choice in or out with ambiguity. A number of issues for people to consider, list your pros and cons and make your decision. 

The people voted to leave by 52-48 % and I suspect that if it were to be re run  today the margin would be far wider. There will be no 2nd referendum, accept it and get on with life.

Referendums - the "tools of demagogues and dictators" - Clement Attlee repeated by Margaret Thatcher.

[Airbagwill]

What happens is not crystal balls - take a way the crystal and you get a better idea...it's down to reason and logical deduction.

Even the Express is now warning of the financial exodus.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/874528/Brexit-news-uk-exchange-rate-finance-services-euro-eu-brussels-european-union-video

 

 

[Khun Han]

Yeess, yeess, airbagwill, whatever. Say hello to cumgranosalum for me when you see him.

[Khun Han]

Great, feisty interview/discussion between brexiter journalist Julia Hartley Brewer and Blair sidekick/Project Fear eminence grise Alastair Campbell, where they both give as good as they get. Touche!:

 

 

[Naam]

8 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

The NHS currently gets a tad over 2.38 billion Sterling a week from the Tory government.

on top of the 3.61 million Euro a fortnight from Brussels?

[Chip Allen]

Comparing Brexit to Trumpmania is an insult to Brits.

[nong38]

When Cameron offered the UK a referendum on the EU issue it was part of plan to keep him in number 10 and even when he returned from the EU  with his "great package" to sell to the people he thought or so he told us it was a good deal and recommended it the country. So the Government and the Establishment all wanted the status quo and provided lots of doom and gloom if we were to leave, surely the UK would stay in the EU?

The people, they had to make up its mind and vote after considering many issues which have been aired on here many times.

The "Establishment" though missed one of the most important issues and one I dont think I have read on here.

For years the Establishment and Governments of all sides have not been listening to the public and their concerns about a whole range of subjects and the Referendum provided the opportunity for the general public to stick 2 fingers up to the Establishment and administrations of all ilks and throw everything up in the air, which is exactly what has happened.

The doom and gloom predicted has not happened, the exchange rate has fallen but has also recovered somewhat, it will take time I guess because   what happens from now on is pure speculation who knows which way the cards will fall.

The Establishment is still in shock, cannot believe what has happened but we are coming to a time when the HMG will have to decide whether a deal is going to happen or not and if it is deemed that not enough progress has been made what they are going to do, the clock is ticking and the time for farting about is almost up.

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

Yeess, yeess, airbagwill, whatever. Say hello to cumgranosalum for me when you see him.

You seem to be increasingly delusional and unable to put forward any counter arguments.

I know that some "brexiteers" are suffering greatly from the post Brexit realisation that their choice was a blunder of  monumental proportions - but the evidence is clear and the deductions were accurate - 

 

If you think the exodus is a good thing, then your logic is highly questionable .

If you think it's a bad thing - then at least you agree with remainers that Brexit is damaging this aspect of the British economy.

If you care to deny that there is an exodus from London you are patently wrong....and clearly deluding yourself.

 

so if you can extract yourself from the realms of paranoia, perhaps you could say what you think the situation is

 

are they leaving or not?

Is this a god or bad thing?

 

[Airbagwill]

25 minutes ago, Chip Allen said:

Comparing Brexit to Trumpmania is an insult to Brits.

brexit is far more serious - Trump will disappear within 10 years, Brexit will damage Britain long after most TV members on this thread are dead.

[Nigel Garvie]

5 hours ago, Chip Allen said:

Comparing Brexit to Trumpmania is an insult to Brits.

Comparing Trumpmania to Brexit is seen by some as an insult to Americans! Well well we are now on page 43 or so,  and a fair amount of insulting has gone on. I might have said that individual's intelligence has been insulted, but my lawyer advised me that this would probably be overstating the case.

[Khun Han]

5 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

You seem to be increasingly delusional and unable to put forward any counter arguments.

I know that some "brexiteers" are suffering greatly from the post Brexit realisation that their choice was a blunder of  monumental proportions - but the evidence is clear and the deductions were accurate - 

 

If you think the exodus is a good thing, then your logic is highly questionable .

If you think it's a bad thing - then at least you agree with remainers that Brexit is damaging this aspect of the British economy.

If you care to deny that there is an exodus from London you are patently wrong....and clearly deluding yourself.

 

so if you can extract yourself from the realms of paranoia, perhaps you could say what you think the situation is

 

are they leaving or not?

Is this a god or bad thing?

 

 

There isn't an exodus from London.

[Khun Han]

9 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Referendums - the "tools of demagogues and dictators" - Clement Attlee repeated by Margaret Thatcher.

 

A referendum is a constitutional requirement for any change in law which affects the UK's sovereignty. If you don't like that, campaign to have the law changed.

[Nigel Garvie]

Khun Han said "My judgements are proving to be correct so far: that the forecast economic doom is nothing more than scaremongering by powerful vested interests which were onto a very cushy number with the EU (with the EU giving those vested interests control of the labour market, etc) ."

 

Judgements aside,  it is clear that people have very different opinions  about what were the "Powerful vested interests" and what aims they had. The impression I take from what you wrote is that you believe that powerful vested interests, should not have control of the labour market. This concern for the common man being exploited by said interests is admirable. However it appears that the multi Billionaire owners of the Sun, Mail, Express, Telegraph, Times, Scotsman etc saw their interests in exploitation being curtailed by the EU rather than enhanced by the EU. 

 

I would hate to be thought of as uncharitable (Ho ho) but this could suggest that these men, and many other "powerful vested interests" believed that the EU was getting uncomfortably close to closing certain tax loopholes.

[rockingrobin]

6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

A referendum is a constitutional requirement for any change in law which affects the UK's sovereignty. If you don't like that, campaign to have the law changed.

Sorry , but you are going to have to provide a link to substantiate this claim

[Khun Han]

Just now, rockingrobin said:

Sorry , but you are going to have to provide a link to substantiate this claim

 

Explained quite well by Vernon Coleman here:

 

http://www.vernoncoleman.com/euillegally.html

 

Further explanation of the Heath government's duplicity (and the lasting change on political behaviour) here:

 

http://campaignforanindependentbritain.org.uk/britain-europe-bruges-group/

[Grouse]

52 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

A referendum is a constitutional requirement for any change in law which affects the UK's sovereignty. If you don't like that, campaign to have the law changed.

Slightly disingenuous there.

 

A referendum is indeed correct for a change in constitutional matters. However, a simple majority requirement is unwise as is proven to be the case. A super majority or a majority of the electorate would have been much wiser.

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, nong38 said:

When Cameron offered the UK a referendum on the EU issue it was part of plan to keep him in number 10 and even when he returned from the EU  with his "great package" to sell to the people he thought or so he told us it was a good deal and recommended it the country. So the Government and the Establishment all wanted the status quo and provided lots of doom and gloom if we were to leave, surely the UK would stay in the EU?

The people, they had to make up its mind and vote after considering many issues which have been aired on here many times.

The "Establishment" though missed one of the most important issues and one I dont think I have read on here.

For years the Establishment and Governments of all sides have not been listening to the public and their concerns about a whole range of subjects and the Referendum provided the opportunity for the general public to stick 2 fingers up to the Establishment and administrations of all ilks and throw everything up in the air, which is exactly what has happened.

The doom and gloom predicted has not happened, the exchange rate has fallen but has also recovered somewhat, it will take time I guess because   what happens from now on is pure speculation who knows which way the cards will fall.

The Establishment is still in shock, cannot believe what has happened but we are coming to a time when the HMG will have to decide whether a deal is going to happen or not and if it is deemed that not enough progress has been made what they are going to do, the clock is ticking and the time for farting about is almost up.

Sterling recovered? Trump happened and weakened the USD

[adammike]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

There isn't an exodus from London.

There will be when the office and homes are built/rented/bought in Frankfurt,Paris,Berlin,Amsterdam or somewhere the sun shines a bit more than in London. 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

There isn't an exodus from London.

Again, a little disingenuous 

 

Maybe 10% of 1M jobs will be lost but these won't be juniors! In terms of salaries lost it will be a major and totally unnecessary hit.

 

Why not be reasonable just for once. Admit it, there will be big losses but you feel it's worth it?

[Khun Han]

24 minutes ago, adammike said:

There will be when the office and homes are built/rented/bought in Frankfurt,Paris,Berlin,Amsterdam or somewhere the sun shines a bit more than in London. 

 

But there won't be. Financiers prefer London and New York, as explained by Michael Bloomberg. I was playing golf at Costa Teguise on Lanzarote a few years ago with a stockbroker from Amsterdam. He was enthusing about how much fun it is to do business in London, where he always got invited out for a night on the town by his London colleagues. He hated going to Frankfurt: he said it was boring; everyone always went home straight after work and he always ended up in his hotel alone. Different cultures, you see. Everybody wants to work in a place like London or New York. Nobody wants to go work in places like Frankfurt.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Khun Han said "My judgements are proving to be correct so far: that the forecast economic doom is nothing more than scaremongering by powerful vested interests which were onto a very cushy number with the EU (with the EU giving those vested interests control of the labour market, etc) ."

 

Judgements aside,  it is clear that people have very different opinions  about what were the "Powerful vested interests" and what aims they had. The impression I take from what you wrote is that you believe that powerful vested interests, should not have control of the labour market. This concern for the common man being exploited by said interests is admirable. However it appears that the multi Billionaire owners of the Sun, Mail, Express, Telegraph, Times, Scotsman etc saw their interests in exploitation being curtailed by the EU rather than enhanced by the EU. 

 

I would hate to be thought of as uncharitable (Ho ho) but this could suggest that these men, and many other "powerful vested interests" believed that the EU was getting uncomfortably close to closing certain tax loopholes.

 

 

The control of the labour market comes through free movement, which allows companies to stagnate/drive down wages in wealthier member states by employing people from the poorer states who are prepared to relocate and work for lower wages than the natives. And this has now been taken to a new (and quite bizarre) level by the latest EU directive that companies in the poorer states are not allowed to take advantage of their lower wages when competing for business in other member states! Talk about protecting big business!

 

You misinterpret the EU's efforts on multinational tax evasion. It serves two purposes: A naked money grab from wealthy American companies; and a trade shot across the bows of the USA.

[Naam]

33 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

But there won't be. Financiers prefer London and New York, as explained by Michael Bloomberg. I was playing golf at Costa Teguise on Lanzarote a few years ago with a stockbroker from Amsterdam. He was enthusing about how much fun it is to do business in London, where he always got invited out for a night on the town by his London colleagues. He hated going to Frankfurt: he said it was boring; everyone always went home straight after work and he always ended up in his hotel alone. Different cultures, you see. Everybody wants to work in a place like London or New York. Nobody wants to go work in places like Frankfurt.

He hated going to Frankfurt: he said it was boring; everyone always went home straight after work and he always ended up in his hotel alone.

little did he know

[oldhippy]

40 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

But there won't be. Financiers prefer London and New York, as explained by Michael Bloomberg. I was playing golf at Costa Teguise on Lanzarote a few years ago with a stockbroker from Amsterdam. He was enthusing about how much fun it is to do business in London, where he always got invited out for a night on the town by his London colleagues. He hated going to Frankfurt: he said it was boring; everyone always went home straight after work and he always ended up in his hotel alone. Different cultures, you see. Everybody wants to work in a place like London or New York. Nobody wants to go work in places like Frankfurt.

True, Frankfurt does not have bingo joints or fish & chips with sugary mayonaise.

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

True, Frankfurt does not have bingo joints or fish & chips with sugary mayonaise.

 

And neither do central London or New York. Amsterdam has the mayonaise on chips though, if that's what you're after.

[adammike]

22 minutes ago, Naam said:

He hated going to Frankfurt: he said it was boring; everyone always went home straight after work and he always ended up in his hotel alone.

little did he know

They won't be in hotels they will be living there in apartments and houses, facilities and night life restaurants schools etc will appear as needed.communities will grow around them. And when the brexiters light their bonfire of regulations the quality of life will become unbearable for most in London .of course Bloomburg and his fellow billionaires and multi millionaires will not notice.

[rockingrobin]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Explained quite well by Vernon Coleman here:

 

http://www.vernoncoleman.com/euillegally.html

 

Further explanation of the Heath government's duplicity (and the lasting change on political behaviour) here:

 

http://campaignforanindependentbritain.org.uk/britain-europe-bruges-group/

The author of the first link posted. appears to omit some vital details.

He forgets to note the conservative manifesto of T Heath declared its intention. to join

He relies on the Bill of Rights 1889, for his assertion that membership was unlawful. it is correct that this act is still active ,however the statement referred to is part of the oath of allegiance to William and Mary .Subsequent acts have altered this

Clearly from Thorburn v Sunderland a referendum is not required to change the constitution .It was from this case that a constitutional statute status was established