North Korea diplomat says take atmospheric nuclear test threat 'literally'

[craigt3365]

1 minute ago, smutcakes said:

You are off your rocker. You are really suggesting the US use nuclear force on NK? Something 6000 miles away from them? Why cant the US just leave it to the China, Russia, Japan, South Korea to leave it to. Thank God i have not got family in SK if you were in any position of power. Easy for you to make these suggestions from 1000's of miles away.

The last thing I'd want is a nuclear attack.  The US is working very closely with Japan and South Korea.  You are aware of that, right?  Even China is involved.  Russia doesn't really care and probably likes what's going on.  Some 46 countries are against what NK is doing.  I'd say your country is one of them.

 

Be nice.

[boomerangutang]

3 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

That,s our air he is going to be polluting with radiation ! This sickening little creep really needs to be taken care of.

People get fined for littering.  There should be fines for countries which pollute. 

On a side note:  there's a Texas-sized glob of plastic particles & goo, floating in the N.Pacific which is about 2 meters thick.  Arguably 90% of that goop comes from China.  

 

 

[baboon]

9 minutes ago, Fore Man said:

Sorry, Mr.Baboon, but I’d much rather see mass graves and smoking embers in North Korea than in my own homeland, a nation containing a thirteen-fold populace.  I may be a selfish, cold-hearted patriot but at least I’m a realist. 

An understandable perspective. However ask yourself what the DPRK would have to gain from preemptively attacking the US and committing national suicide in the process. 

Mind you it is all academic anyway. There will be no nuclear war between the two states. A good deal of the fuss is a sensationalist media stirring things up to generate revenue.

[Tchooptip]

 

I am not condoning the North Korea behaviour, of course, I am not a US basher at all, but... 

...the only thing I can hardly understand is the constant US military exercises in front of the North Koreas gate, since

North Korea most probably feels its own survival is threatened by the US politics, likes Irak of Sadam was. 

 

 

[farcanell]

2 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

From whom does the USA request permission for its nuclear program/testing.....the sheer arrogance!!

Yes indeed... the sheer arrogance of WMD development goes way back... at least as far back as the race to develop the atomic bomb, which ended the last world war... and who gave them the right?

 

the free world.

[craigt3365]

25 minutes ago, Tchooptip said:

 

I am not condoning the North Korea behaviour, of course, I am not a US basher at all, but... 

...the only thing I can hardly understand is the constant US military exercises in front of the North Koreas gate, since

North Korea most probably feels its own survival is threatened by the US politics, likes Irak of Sadam was.

There was never a peace agreement signed between NK and SK.  So technically, they are still at war.  NK has invaded the South many times over the years.  An attack a few years ago killed several civilians in the South.  Kinda hard to argue with SK wanting to conduct military exercises to counter the aggression from the North.

 

 

[ThaiFelix]

54 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Well  every one keeps stirring  up NK ....What would you do if they keep stirring you? I would do same as NK, Getting ready  to kick ass.Leave them alone. Don't stir shit ,They won't Nuke the US  unless the US starts First.

Yeah but what about the threat of the Domino theory??  oh thats right, it was proven to be a load of rubbish (same as the Tonkin gulf incident)

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

Yeah but what about the threat of the Domino theory??  oh thats right, it was proven to be a load of rubbish (same as the Tonkin gulf incident)

Domino Theory?  What's that got to do with this topic?  You were wrong with the last post and off topic on this one.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

When Trump made that calm before storm thingy I am sure he made some sort of deal with the Chinese to take little Kim out.

 

Heck, maybe Russians could hack a NK missile cuz they seem to be so good at this.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

I side with any country's right to defend themselves as they see fit. Any country possessing nuclear weapons is undesirable, but if it is good for one, it is good for another.

 

This is not about a "country's right to defend" itself, but rather about a dictator fortifying his hold on power at the expense of the people. Nuclear weapons are bad, but nuclear weapons in the hands of such rulers as Kim are worse.

 

59 minutes ago, baboon said:

An understandable perspective. However ask yourself what the DPRK would have to gain from preemptively attacking the US and committing national suicide in the process. 

Mind you it is all academic anyway. There will be no nuclear war between the two states. A good deal of the fuss is a sensationalist media stirring things up to generate revenue.

 

NK, as a country, doesn't gain anything from Kim's actions as it is. The only one benefiting is Kim (yeah yeah...and his inner circle, whatever). Such attacks do not always happen because of rational decision making - opportunities for mistakes and miscalculation are always present. If Kim was to believe he was about to go down - would he still act rationally? I doubt there's a reliable answer for that. But keeping up the talk about what NK wants, wishes or expects is intentionally misleading - North Koreans do not have a say in this one way or the other.

 

 

[boomerangutang]

2 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

When Trump made that calm before storm thingy I am sure he made some sort of deal with the Chinese to take little Kim out. Heck, maybe Russians could hack a NK missile cuz they seem to be so good at this.

Interesting; you mention Trump's 'calm before the storm' blurb.

No 'storm' followed that mouth fart.  He couldn't define what the storm was, when he said it (twice), and he can't now, weeks later.  The mouse that roared.  .....or more like 'the boy who cried wolf.'

 

Trump is on record as openly lying an average of 5 times/day (according to a study by the Wash.Post).   Now, he's adding to that;  empty threats.   It's getting to point where, if Trump orders a twinkie from the WH kitchen, the workers there won't believe him.  His cred quotient is heading to negative territory. 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

If the West preemptively attacks the DPRK, the innocent people you are so worried about will be dead. Dead. This would be our fault.

 

Obviously nothing to do with Kim's actions.

[Ron19]

An off topic troll post and replies have been removed.

[Fore Man]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

An understandable perspective. However ask yourself what the DPRK would have to gain from preemptively attacking the US and committing national suicide in the process. 

Mind you it is all academic anyway. There will be no nuclear war between the two states. A good deal of the fuss is a sensationalist media stirring things up to generate revenue.

The way I see it, the only way a war can start is if Kim fires off that nuke with his planned North Pacific air burst, or sends a salvo near Guam as recently promised. I believe that would be the overt war-initiating act that the US and its allies would use as adequate justification to launch on nK and end this once and for all.  I hope though that Trump et al aren’t so driven that the US launches a preemptive attack without sufficient, real provocation.  Mere threatening, bellicose language is not cause to launch an attack, which will turn nuclear quickly, and as we all know, Kim is infamous for acting the bully, overdramatizing, using bombastic rhetoric and goading his largely imagined enemies. Trump is just the first opponent to call his bluff. One of these days Kim will take it too far and get creamed for it. Let’s just pray that when it happens the impacts are minimized on innocent bystanders....

Edited October 26, 2017 by Fore Man
Typo

[balo]

If Trump is travelling to the border of N-Korea , I suggest someone kicks his butt over to the other side and he can be entertained by Kim.

Then just send a missile in and the world gets rid of 2 big problems.......

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

 

What a silly post.... you can not compare one country at the height of its power, with another at its lowest ebb

 

Firstly, and in fairness, review your list and remove those countries where the US were acting under the auspices of the UN and / or in support of allied treaties

 

then, for s**** and giggles, check out the size of the Iranian empire at its peak. History goes back further than seventy odd years, and any minimized snapshot can be misconstrued to support any argument, as you have done here

 

Billy Joel perhaps said it best.....” we didn’t start the fire, it was always burning since the worlds been turning.”

 

 

 

[Tchooptip]

One good solution would be a revolution in NK to topple this rotten regime, maybe it cannot happens only due to China's support for the regime.

We are probably swimming in a wonderful diplomatic hypocrisy!

China has a communist party with some of his members among the richest men on earth. 

 

[farcanell]

45 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

Yeah but what about the threat of the Domino theory??  oh thats right, it was proven to be a load of rubbish (same as the Tonkin gulf incident)

Was it really? The post WW2 Asian version, had an arguable outcome, with further incidents perhaps discouraged by the massive worldwide response to the North Vietnamese efforts.... who’s to really say what would have happened, if there was no resistance in South Vietnam.

 

in support... see;

the malayan emergency

the hukbalahab rebellion

sukarnos indonesia

 

the domino effect, by any other name, is a sound premise and is very apparent thruout history, where an aggressor expands his territory, one country at a time, until the aggressor is stopped

 

think germanys expansion in two world wars

think napoleon (the conquerer of the world) and the napoleonic wars

hell... for more s**** and giggles, think of the Roman Empire...etc etc

 

one by One, countries fell... a domino effect. Just because the term was coined in the 1950’s, it doesn’t make the reality wrong, or the theory incorrect.

 

 

[Thaidream]

A first strike using a nuclear weapon by the US is unthinkable and has never been military doctrine after World War II.  Anyone who advocates such a strike  doesn't understand atomic and nuclear power. They might want to study the remains of Nagasaki and Hiroshima to get a perspective of what a nuclear weapon can do.

 

One of the worst case scenarios is if NKore places a nuclear warhead on an intercontinental ballistic missile fuels it and it sits on a N Korean launch pad ready to fire.  US intelligence has incontrovertible evidence an American city is the target. The President has to make a decision. I know of no  US military General who would advocate a nuclear strike even at this point and I doubt  Trump would order it and if he did- no one would carry out the order. However, if the missile is fired and it approaches American airspace- then a retaliatory strike could occur.

The US military has a scenario for every action that NKorea could ever use against the Us or its Allies- and these response have been tested over and over. The use of nuclear weapons by the US is the last thing anyone in the US Government would ever want.

 

One of the major concerns of the Us is the ability of NKorea to sell off its nuclear technology to countries such as Iran and syria as well as terrorist organizations such as ISIS or Al Qaeda who not only hate the US but Western Civilization. A small atomic bomb carried in a suitcase into an American or Western European City  by a terrorist would cause tens of thousands of deaths and cause severe economic disruption. IMHO- this is the real scenario the US fears more than anything-proliferation.

 

It is imperative that NKorea's nuclear and missile program be capped  and stopped. To do this both China and Russia have to put real pressure on NKorea along with really tough UN sanctions.  While Trump needs to keep quiet- the US military needs to continue to show military force to let NKorea know that the Us is serious. Once negotiations start- everything can be on the table including China securing NKorea's nuclear and missile program and then the withdrawal of US Forces from SKorea and the signing off on the end of the Korean War. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ThaiFelix]

27 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Domino Theory?  What's that got to do with this topic?  You were wrong with the last post and off topic on this one.

We are talking about where it all started.  It started with the US paranoia of communists taking over the world...the Domino theory.  The US interfered (again) in another country where the populace's majority wanted communism and it became the Korean War.  The US was defeated in its efforts, as they were in Vietnam, Cuba etc etc, and in response the US persecuted all these countries for years with embargoes, boycotts etc. until, in Vietnam's case, they realised they could profit from easing the persecution.  They are doing the same with Cuba today by forgetting the malice over being defeated by the Cuban communists in return for profit. 

 

Now with North Korea the story is a little different.  The small weak kid stands up to the huge school yard bully by picking up a big stick to increase the odds in his favour.  The big bully counters this by making up stories about the little kid to try to get some support for its dominating behaviour.  Also dont forget the big bully also controls and manipulates the school's newsletter who in turn are cajoled or forced to disseminate the propaganda giving the little kid a really bad name (see also Gaddafi, Saddam Hussein, Castro and more).

 

I hope that makes it a little easier for you.  Its all there in the history books but read widely and do keep away from any US publications/media because it seems you have read too much of that already.

[craigt3365]

4 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

We are talking about where it all started.  It started with the US paranoia of communists taking over the world...the Domino theory.  The US interfered (again) in another country where the populace's majority wanted communism and it became the Korean War.  The US was defeated in its efforts, as they were in Vietnam, Cuba etc etc, and in response the US persecuted all these countries for years with embargoes, boycotts etc. until, in Vietnam's case, they realised they could profit from easing the persecution.  They are doing the same with Cuba today by forgetting the malice over being defeated by the Cuban communists in return for profit. 

 

Now with North Korea the story is a little different.  The small weak kid stands up to the huge school yard bully by picking up a big stick to increase the odds in his favour.  The big bully counters this by making up stories about the little kid to try to get some support for its dominating behaviour.  Also dont forget the big bully also controls and manipulates the school's newsletter who in turn are cajoled or forced to disseminate the propaganda giving the little kid a really bad name (see also Gaddafi, Saddam Hussein, Castro and more).

 

I hope that makes it a little easier for you.  Its all there in the history books but read widely and do keep away from any US publications/media because it seems you have read too much of that already.

You seem to be lost somewhere. The arrogance! LOL

[sweatalot]

... " if it is good for one, it is good for another.."

 

No it is not.

every nuclear state is one to much.

In particular it this state - or better its leader - is well known for evil behavior and only interested in being in power

 

 

[Thaidream]

The characterization that the 'Domino Theory' has anything to do with the Korean War; The current Korean situation or anything that has happened in Cuba; the Middle East or Libya is way off the mark.  Each situation has its own set of circumstances and World actors. Please read your History. Start with 'The Ten Thousand Day War' by Mr. Maclaren and then read 'How We Won The War' by North Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap.  

[farcanell]

57 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

 

I hope that makes it a little easier for you.  Its all there in the history books but read widely and do keep away from any US publications/media because it seems you have read too much of that already.

Lol...  Felix, the funny cat

 

i made no direct reference to the US, and rarely ever read US publications/ media. (Though admittedly, I didn’t realize Chomsky was American),,, that said, some American authored legal treatise are interesting to peruse.  

 

my assertions and opinions come from a wider reading, generally from the history books, were it is indeed laid out... but not usually ones written by American authors, who are often want to change history to put a shine on the Stars and Stripes.... much like they have changed the English language to suit themselves (but then, history, throughout history, is usually written by the victor for self embellishment... and the US likes to portray itself as the victor)

 

my assertions stand....that  the domino effect was a term coined in the 50’s (happy to be corrected on the date, and yes, in respect to communist ideology expansion) but in a broader sense, it describes the falling of countries, one by One, to a foreign power, or ideal, in the case of communism (or Nazism???... or Islam... that last is on public record, by the way)... but the effect (as in sphere of influence) is the same thruout history.

 

take a wee sip of your own advise... look at theories of causation, effects and equivalencies, for example (hint... originals will probably be in German and/ or French, vs American, though they might well be adopted or hijacked by the latter)

 

Further... US contributions to some of my references is either negligible or non existent... according to those history books you suggest I read.

 

I am willing to simplify issues (further) for you, but don’t wish to insult your intelligence

 

[Happy Grumpy]

1 hour ago, farcanell said:

you can not compare one country at the height of its power, with another at its lowest ebb

America is seriously suffering, but I don't think it's at its lowest ebb just yet.

 

Close, but not quite yet. 

[farcanell]

Apologies Felix... I thought you were referencing my post

[Happy Grumpy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military–industrial_complex

 

Gotta keep finding those enemies to fight....

 

 

 

 

[ThaiFelix]

57 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The characterization that the 'Domino Theory' has anything to do with the Korean War; The current Korean situation or anything that has happened in Cuba; the Middle East or Libya is way off the mark.  Each situation has its own set of circumstances and World actors. Please read your History. Start with 'The Ten Thousand Day War' by Mr. Maclaren and then read 'How We Won The War' by North Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap.  

If you reread my post you will find my reference to Castro, Gaddafi and Saddam was in regard to propaganda not North Korea nor the domino theory...maybe I didnt make that clear enough. 

 

I have read Maclaren's book...twice in fact it was so good.  I will look out for General Giap's.

[ThaiFelix]

1 hour ago, farcanell said:

Was it really? The post WW2 Asian version, had an arguable outcome, with further incidents perhaps discouraged by the massive worldwide response to the North Vietnamese efforts.... who’s to really say what would have happened, if there was no resistance in South Vietnam.

 

in support... see;

the malayan emergency

the hukbalahab rebellion

sukarnos indonesia

 

the domino effect, by any other name, is a sound premise and is very apparent thruout history, where an aggressor expands his territory, one country at a time, until the aggressor is stopped

 

think germanys expansion in two world wars

think napoleon (the conquerer of the world) and the napoleonic wars

hell... for more s**** and giggles, think of the Roman Empire...etc etc

 

one by One, countries fell... a domino effect. Just because the term was coined in the 1950’s, it doesn’t make the reality wrong, or the theory incorrect.

 

 

Yes I agree,  I am not trying to disprove the reality of the domino effect...history speaks for itself as you have clearly pointed out.  My reference was in regard to the Vietnam war where the US maintained that if the communists were not stopped in Vietnam they would proceed to take over all of Asia, through New Guinea, Australia and eventually the rest of the world including the USA.  I think that believing communism would take over in a developed country such as the USA and Australia etc is stretching the imagination a bit much.

 

What would have happened if there was no resistance in South Vietnam is an interesting question indeed but I still stand by the above with regards to developed countries.

[ThaiFelix]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

You seem to be lost somewhere. The arrogance! LOL

 

A very well thought out and constructive argument indeed??