I need help - Re: Health in Thailand

[Ready 2 Retire]

G'day guys,

 

I just joined the forum though I've been lurking for a while. It's been very informative, thank you.

 

I sold my house and am ready to ove to Thailand. My parents are elderly and ill but they would love to go to Hua Hin with my wife and I.

 

They are uninsurable (78years and 79years old)

 

I'm wondering if anyone has found a cost-effective healthcare work-around for the elderly in Thailand?

 

or, alternatively, is the public hospital in Hua Hin reasonably priced if something happens?

 

Should we take a risk? coming back to Australia for medical treatment might be difficult as they also need to lease out their house to obtain their retirement visa.

 

thanks in advance,

Ready2Retire

 

[ThaiPauly]

You would be taking a big risk bringing your parents here in poor health.

 

I don't know how expensive HH is but Chiang Mai hospitals by comparison are not cheap.

 

Others will be along to tell you the same thing and even tell you stories of disasters that have befallen elderly people who have come here.

 

If they are entitled to free healthcare or reasonably priced care let them stay where they are. At their age it's a really bad idea to move here without insurance

 

GOOD LUCK

[impulse]

If you've got an extra $250-500K  (That's dollars, not Baht) available that won't torpedo your retirement plans, go for it.

 

Otherwise, picture a stroke or car accident where your loved ones won't be ambulatory to go back to Aus (if they're still qualified for free treatment after not being resident for some period).  And your best laid plans to use cheap government hospitals go by the wayside when the ambulance drops them off, unconscious, at the luxury hospital that pays them best.

 

Health care needs rarely come up the way we expect, and there are a zillion ways it can go sideways and then you're just along for a very expensive ride.

 

Over 6+ years I've been reading here on TVF, the number one planning pitfall for most retirees seems to be their lack of understanding the cost of health care outside of a nationalized health care system. (Well, maybe #2, after not understanding the economic dynamics driving what would be considered romantic relationships back home).

 

Best of luck to you and your family.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Ready 2 Retire said:

Should we take a risk? coming back to Australia for medical treatment might be difficult as they also need to lease out their house to obtain their retirement visa.

I cannot help on the health care part. Since you parents are well over the age of 50 your parents can get extension of stay after you get yours at immigration as your dependents with no financial proof required.

[Ready 2 Retire]

Thank you all for the headsup. I think it's wise not to to risk it. we certainly don't have that kind of money.

 

i'm intrigued by getting my parents to Thailand as dependants but even so, if something does happen and they need to come back to their house in oz, they might be too ill to do so. errr..

 

[NancyL]

If their finances are so limited that they couldn't afford retirement visas on their own, then they certainly don't have enough to cover potential health emergencies here, notwithstanding the fact that they can be carried on your visa as dependents.  

 

Hospitals, even gov't hospitals, ask for upfront deposits before proceeding with any but the most basic of emergency care and if they can't put their hands on $10,000 right away, then they could have a major problem.  

 

If they want to come visit you here, OK, but be sure they have good travel insurance with an evacuation plan.

[Ready 2 Retire]

Thanks NancyL, 

 

They are unable to live without me. mum has dementia+alzheimers and dad is "legally" blind even though he sees some shades and colours.

 

I would really like to offer them a place in the sun for their twilight years. I am prepared to leave work (I'm 44) - I'll never qualify for an Australian pension (68years old and either way I'd have to come back to Australia at 66 and stay for 2 years to qualify)

 

I sold 1 house and have one leased out to bring in some cash, mum and dad's pension + their house rent should take us to over 100k thb p/m. With the sale of my investment house we should be able to buy a nice house in HH (so no money lost on rent)

 

I'm now thinking of setting up my own health fund (squirrel money away to pay for hospitals). they take cardia, Lipitor, some hypertension medications so the cost of these need to be factored. here they pay each medication $5 for 30days (roughly). does anyone take these in Thailand? would be interested in the price. thanks.

[lopburi3]

I really do not believe you should or can afford to make the move - there is no easy employment route to provide income here when needed, no social services or facilities for parents and little security for you if wife should pass (as you an not own property here).

 

But for Lipitor price.  I have changed to Chlovas which is the same medication and pay 1,950 baht for 90 tablets of 40mg each (split as take 20mg per day).  Lipitor would be 7,200 baht for 90 tablets of 40mg.

 

This web drug store is about normal price for Thailand if you want to check other drugs.  Often a cheaper local version may be available for foreign name brands but if not they will be very expensive.

http://drugstorebangkok.com/my-account/

 

[NancyL]

I really don't understand how someone can be "ready 2 retire" at age 44 without a stash of substantial savings.  Sure many people would like to stop working at age 44, but unless they've somehow made their fortune at an early age, it just doesn't make economic sense.

 

If I read your posts properly, it seems your only assets are the houses, one of which you plan to sell to buy a house here in Thailand, and as Lopburi pointed out if you put the house in the name of your Thai wife, then it really isn't yours.   If there is no other savings, then you're going to have a problem. 

 

Elderly people, especially someone who is blind or has dementia, often have falls, many times resulting in a hip fracture.  Even the gov't hospitals ask for a deposit of about half the cost of a hip repair before doing the necessary surgery.  Here in Chiang Mai, the usual cost for repair of a hip fracture in an elderly person is about 150,000 - 200,000 baht, not including outpatient rehab visits afterwards.

[InMyShadow]

Most expats are starting to look at leaving thailand at that age

[tonray]

Thinking about bringing elderly parents with dementia to a foreign country because you want to live there is absurd and frankly quite selfish.  Having taken care of my mum for 12 years I gave up many opportunities to ensure she maintaied a stable environment which is critical for such patients. Please rethink everything  ...BTW I was finally able to travel when she passed but I was 57 ..I do not regret doing it that way as opposed to relocating her to suit my plans.   

[Ready 2 Retire]

Thank you all for your responses, I take them all onboard. there's a few I need to address. It's my mother's wish to live out her remaining years in Thailand. she loves it over there. This coincides with my wife and my own wishes. My father does not want to remain in australia, he hates it here but he'd rather return to europe for the remainder of his life.  he obviously cant go alone and I see going to europe as a step back, not forward.

 

I'm caught in the middle! trying to keep everyone happy.

 

re- the houses. I have sold one, I have another which is leased out at $1400aud p/m. we moved in at mum and dad's because they need care (hence leased out my primary residence).

 

if we lease out mum's house, that should bring in another $1400aud p/m + their pensions $3200aud (1600x2). that should be $6000 pm roughly (152,616thb) is this really not enough to retire in thailand??? the sale should leave me with 7.5m thb. i can buy something for half that and use the other half for a health fund and live on the 152k thb pm. yes? 

 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

On 10/31/2017 at 9:06 AM, InMyShadow said:

Most expats are starting to look at leaving thailand at that age

 

agree.

[impulse]

1 hour ago, Ready 2 Retire said:

I'm caught in the middle! trying to keep everyone happy.

 

My heart goes out to you on that one.  Hard for anyone to understand your situation unless they've actually lived it.  Seems like it fits into the old "you can't please everyone" conundrum...

 

Best of luck!

 

Edit:  On an aside, being under 50, what visa would you intend to use?  You won't qualify for a retirement visa for another 6 years.   There are other options, but none of them are really cheap and predictable over the next 6 years, and many loopholes have closed over the past 2-3 years.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2017 by impulse

[tonray]

1 hour ago, Ready 2 Retire said:

Thank you all for your responses, I take them all onboard. there's a few I need to address. It's my mother's wish to live out her remaining years in Thailand. she loves it over there. This coincides with my wife and my own wishes. My father does not want to remain in australia, he hates it here but he'd rather return to europe for the remainder of his life.  he obviously cant go alone and I see going to europe as a step back, not forward.

 

I'm caught in the middle! trying to keep everyone happy.

 

re- the houses. I have sold one, I have another which is leased out at $1400aud p/m. we moved in at mum and dad's because they need care (hence leased out my primary residence).

 

if we lease out mum's house, that should bring in another $1400aud p/m + their pensions $3200aud (1600x2). that should be $6000 pm roughly (152,616thb) is this really not enough to retire in thailand??? the sale should leave me with 7.5m thb. i can buy something for half that and use the other half for a health fund and live on the 152k thb pm. yes? 

 

Money 'should ' be OK. The main concern might be custodial care availability. Having endured the many stages of parental aging and the regressive nature of Alzheimers disease, there may be a point where self care is not feasible.  (I fought this for 3 years)  but eventually medical needs and the disease require professional nursing supervision. I wish you best of luck and certainly pm me of you have any issues about care. 

[NancyL]

If you come here, absolutely do not buy a house and tie up your money.  Plus, you're likely to buy a home that is appealing now, but you'll discover is unsuitable later as your parents age, with steps, an inappropriate bathroom, etc.  If you really insist on coming to Thailand, I suggest you consider Chiang Mai where there are several facilities that specialize in the care of elderly foreigners.  As mentioned, at some point the care of one or both of your parents may become more than you can handle.  Actually, all three of you could live at Dok Kaew Assisted Living at McKean for much less than AusD 6000 per month and be in a lovely setting with all your needs handled.

 

McKean is a unique facility with both Dok Kaew Assisted Living and if someone's condition declines they can go into the skilled nursing facility, McKean Rehabilitation Center, all on the same beautiful island in the Ping River.  

[lopburi3]

Quote

 

if we lease out mum's house, that should bring in another $1400aud p/m + their pensions $3200aud (1600x2). that should be $6000 pm roughly (152,616thb) is this really not enough to retire in thailand??? the sale should leave me with 7.5m thb. i can buy something for half that and use the other half for a health fund and live on the 152k thb pm. yes? 

 

You can't have it both ways - either you sell the homes or you do not - if you do not you will not have 7.5 mil to buy anything or set up medical fund.  If you do you will only have 81k per month for 4 people to live on for unknown number of years.  You seem to have made up your mind and fudging the figures to make it work.  Be careful as there may be no turning back.

 

As for pensions are they secure and payable at full rate outside Oz (only ask as have seen some recent postings of such concern).  If one dies then your family monthly income halves but still have 3 of the original 4 people to support.  As you have made no mention of any employment or income source other than your parents pension (or any such plans) can only base my comments on what has been presented.

[yooper]

On 10/30/2017 at 8:52 PM, lopburi3 said:

I really do not believe you should or can afford to make the move - there is no easy employment route to provide income here when needed, no social services or facilities for parents and little security for you if wife should pass (as you an not own property here).

 

But for Lipitor price.  I have changed to Chlovas which is the same medication and pay 1,950 baht for 90 tablets of 40mg each (split as take 20mg per day).  Lipitor would be 7,200 baht for 90 tablets of 40mg.

 

This web drug store is about normal price for Thailand if you want to check other drugs.  Often a cheaper local version may be available for foreign name brands but if not they will be very expensive.

http://drugstorebangkok.com/my-account/

 

I checked out the website, seems a great convenience.  I found HCT which I take now, but perhaps not once I am in country. I also take Lisinopril which did not come up nor Loristan which my wife takes. Are these not over the counter meds in Thailand? 

[lopburi3]

Drug stores tend to only sell what people are using - these may not be popular here but have no knowledge on that.  For Loristan believe compound is actually Losartan and there are a number of brands available.

Available Brands

Cozaar     Lanzaar     Loranta     Losacar 50     Tanzaril     Tosan

 

Another web site that might be interesting is http://www.mims.com/thailand/drug/

[yooper]

3 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Drug stores tend to only sell what people are using - these may not be popular here but have no knowledge on that.  For Loristan believe compound is actually Losartan and there are a number of brands available.

Available Brands

Cozaar     Lanzaar     Loranta     Losacar 50     Tanzaril     Tosan

 

Another web site that might be interesting is http://www.mims.com/thailand/drug/

Thanks I do find Cozar, although more expensive than here.  I may try it myself instead of lisinopril as it has never given me consistent BP levels, I jump around quite a bit and have never tried a beta blocker instead of the ace inhibitor... my wifes bp is rock steady compared to mine, we just see different doctors and that was the 2nd med she tried.

 

[tonray]

4 hours ago, yooper said:

Thanks I do find Cozar, although more expensive than here.  I may try it myself instead of lisinopril as it has never given me consistent BP levels, I jump around quite a bit and have never tried a beta blocker instead of the ace inhibitor... my wifes bp is rock steady compared to mine, we just see different doctors and that was the 2nd med she tried.

 

Should not switch to a beta blocker without doctor's supervision.  Beta blockers slow heart rate and cannot simply be quit cold turkey if you need to switch later because of the rebound effect on metabolism and heart. You might try adding a small dose of Hydrochlorothiazide to your ARB (Losartan,Cozaar) as a next step. 

[al007]

Some observations

 

What is the honest desires of your parents

 

Do you have family to care for them in Australia

 

Very difficult decision, are you if push comes to shove prepared to risk your own financial security  at risk for a dream

 

I came out of Hospital in Bangkok after surgery lasting eleven hours, the cost was minimal, and I was not asked to put anything down up front at Chulalongkorn, maybe God was looking after me, well not maybe definitely was

 

Another answer is postpone your move here if you are genuinely worried about leaving elderly parents, even relocate within Australia short term, you come from a magnificent country, if I could afford the right place in Australia I would be there and not here, for you no medical risk

 

Analysing carefully it is too risky, I am not saying do not do it, but also think about your own old age, you are still a young man

 

If and only if it all went wrong you could be broke and at start again time, logically too dangerous for me and I am a risk taker

 

Be patient, and wait and then come here later, and with an inheritance you could be financially secure, you parent looked after you for many years, or risk everything and blow it all on medical costs

 

I have a feeling you might be an only child

 

In any case what ever you do good luck

 

I am not being critical just trying to be very objective

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, al007 said:

I came out of Hospital in Bangkok after surgery lasting eleven hours, the cost was minimal, and I was not asked to put anything down up front at Chulalongkorn, maybe God was looking after me, well not maybe definitely was

Am not sure that is normal - full payment, 80,000 baht, was required of me at another Bangkok government hospital last year prior to admittance (refunded when they canceled operation).  Prior operations for wife at Chula about 15 years ago, (Thai but paid), payment was always required every 3-4 days.

At any rate hope all is well for you.

[al007]

2 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Am not sure that is normal - full payment, 80,000 baht, was required of me at another Bangkok government hospital last year prior to admittance (refunded when they canceled operation).  Prior operations for wife at Chula about 15 years ago, (Thai but paid), payment was always required every 3-4 days.

At any rate hope all is well for you.

I will write up my experiences in the next few days for the benefit of others, it is quite a long task, yes Chula took money post op at four days then final bill at eight days, but zero up front

 

More importantly in Thailand we just do not know, and it is impossible to predict, there are no norms

 

Wow, yes I am blessed and lucky, but I find risk  relatively easy to asses, and my message to the original poster is we influence and make a lot of our own luck

 

Thailand has no back up for people making bad decisions, other than saying, you can not show the money for another extension please go home, you are no longer welcome

 

On this thread I have only read, warnings, saying to me do not do it

 

Nancy also makes very good sense, saying stay with cash, do NOT buy property

 

Of course for a Thai wife there is no risk with the property in her sole name, in fact only for her a win win, I am not one of the Thai Lady haters, my wife ten yrs on owns everything

 

Having survived  surgery, I am in the process of recovering some of my assets, and still have control over the other ones

[al007]

There is something adrift here, Thai Culture says look after parents, send money home to them, keep them in their homes; when old do not take them from Issan to Bangkok, yet alone from Australia to Thailand

 

Something says to my antennas    NO      NO     NO

[al007]

Ready 2 Retire

 

I would like to add some observations especially bearing in mind you are relatively new to the forum, and you have gone vert quiet

 

These are only MY personal views

 

By coming and posting you did the sensible and correct thing, and airing ones views and concerns can often help clarify ones own mind

 

You received some strong answers, but in all honesty that is why you originally came here

 

I know my replies and posts were very strong, because that is the way I am, and all said with love

 

Do not be scared away, we have all at some times in our lives made bad and ill-considered decisions

 

Used carefully there is a lot of very good advice on TVF, (yes there is also a lot of stuff that needs ignoring buy not so much on this section)

 

The help and advice I have received from TVF has helped and saved my life

 

I wish you well in clarifying your thoughts, at the end of the day it is your life

 

It would be very nice to hear how you proceed, what ever you do; move forward with caution and as NancyL, a very sensible and well grounded lady; said for the first few years, hang onto your cash and rent

 

Cash is and always will be KING