HOLIDAY TRAGEDY Manchester grandad Shaun Walley electrocuted ‘by cheap Thailand hotel’s HANDRAIL’ as family fight to raise £10,000 to bring body home

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, Khonper said:

Why not name that hotel so we all know what to avoid in the future

 

Thai defamation laws could make the namer criminally liable in a case that the hotel by itself could bring... Sad state of affairs in Thailand.

 

Intended to protect the wealthy and influential, and thwart whistleblowing and accountability.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, Khonper said:

Why not name that hotel so we all know what to avoid in the future

 

Apart from the obvious reason, there is no guarantee that such wouldn't happen in any hotel.

"Electricians" that I have used here have less idea about it than I. One put an "earth" wire to a 1 foot steel rod in the ground and had I not known I could have been electrocuted using my own shower heater.

 

Several people have been electrocuted taking showers, and in many hotels I have been in the shower heaters are not earthed at all, and some don't even have safety cutouts.

[newcomer71]

6 hours ago, metisdead said:

An offensive post has been removed as well as an inflammatory reply. 

Sadly I see many distasteful and offensive posts still live. Compassion and empathy are words so unknown to many members of this forum, and sadly for most of human kind.

[Jonnapat]

9 hours ago, observer90210 said:

I am and would be quite shocked to read posts that seem to suggest that it is the deceased who is at fault and consequently up to the family to assume the costs ?!!?

 

RIP to the poor chap and mainly to his family.

 

How would you react if it was a member of your family that encountered such a tragedy due to utter local Thai negligence ?

Very well said, this poor guy did nothing wrong except touch a steel handrail and got himself killed. Please show a little more sympathy in your remarks. This is yet another case of Thai negligence regarding safety.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

18 minutes ago, Grumpy Duck said:

£10,000 2 persons can fly first class for half that amount. 

I am certain the hotel could be forced to pay, it was their fault. 

Hope the ol guy rests in peace. If 

 

 

Once you read past the headline, the article mentions the fact that their fundraising goal amount is meant to cover various things, including lawyer's costs and other stuff not directly related to returning the body.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

48 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

Very well said, this poor guy did nothing wrong except touch a steel handrail and got himself killed. Please show a little more sympathy in your remarks. This is yet another case of Thai negligence regarding safety.

That presumes that the account given by the family in the UK newspaper report is truthful and accurate.

 

And as we found out the other day with the fake mugging victim and their funding appeal, such accounts are sometimes just lies and a scam.

 

Especially on the heels of fake mugging case, and in this case there being no corroboration at all from the Thailand end of things, it does at least raise some questions...

 

It's unfortunate that when scamsters like the fake mugging guy make their public appeals for help and then later are shown to be frauds, that tends to color how the public looks at such appeals the next time another case comes along.

 

 

[ICECOOL]

7 hours ago, bristolgeoff said:

one more person on the list with no insurance.why not get travel insurance problem solved.now they go begging please help my family.no way sorry

It seems tragically so. When will people learn. Now even more grief for the family.

[greenchair]

If it was a foreign co owner and a Thai death. 

There would be a murder charge. 

Just another tourist death in Thailand. 

[Peterw42]

12 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

If the guy actually died in the manner described in the news report, then clearly the hotel would be legally responsible, and probably legally negligent, in his death.

 

What that translates into in terms of financial payment to the family, the way things work in Thailand, could be the subject of a "negotiation" with police, a settlement with the hotel's insurance presuming they have coverage, and/or the result of a civil lawsuit in Thai courts, which would be a long and difficult trek for a British family living abroad to mount...

 

All of that, assuming of course, that the guy did in fact die in the manner reported in the article -- no city, no hotel name, no mention of Thai police involvement, etc etc.

 

There appears to be a general conciseness (I dont know where it comes from) that body repatriation is covered under general law as some sort of penalty or punitive damages, and the guilty party is liable. Nobody seems to have this opinion when its a car accident etc.

A civil action is a different matter, even then, is there a legal precedence, suing for the cost of body repatriation/funeral arrangements. Where does that begin and end, is there a limit on catering at the funeral, can we fly aunt Maude from interstate to attend.

[ttrd]

10 hours ago, Basil B said:

As much as I agree with your sentiment in this instance what is needed is a good lawyer.

In general and I would agree with you, but unfortunately not in Thailand unless the victim is a Thai citizen and/or the owner of the premises is a foreigner.

 

To proceed in this direction means you start an never ending story that will add both a significant amount of frustration and money on the top of this sad situation...

[Knee Jerk Reaction]

4 hours ago, catman20 said:

i could not of said it any better. good post

Good idea. Someone said to me that funeral services are really for the family and friends rather than the deceased. I agree.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

There appears to be a general conciseness (I dont know where it comes from) that body repatriation is covered under general law as some sort of penalty or punitive damages, and the guilty party is liable. Nobody seems to have this opinion when its a car accident etc.

A civil action is a different matter, even then, is there a legal precedence, suing for the cost of body repatriation/funeral arrangements. Where does that begin and end, is there a limit on catering at the funeral, can we fly aunt Maude from interstate to attend.

 

I'm not sure where you're getting that idea from. I certainly never suggested that. There's no legal requirement at all that involves a negligent party being required to pay for repatriation of a deceased. However, it could be something a negligent party could voluntarily offer to do as a good-will gesture as part of an overall financial settlement.

 

Or, there could be a settlement negotiated by the Thai police or with the negligent party's insurer, in which case the money would simply be handed over to the family/heirs -- and then they could spend it on whatever they desire, AFAIK. Although the estimated cost of repatriation and other similar things might be used by the family as the basis for claiming a certain amount of damages/compensation.

 

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, Knee Jerk Reaction said:

Good idea. Someone said to me that funeral services are really for the family and friends rather than the deceased. I agree.

 

 

Never more  so than in Thailand.

[thaibeachlovers]

42 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

If the guy actually died in the manner described in the news report, then clearly the hotel would be legally responsible, and probably legally negligent, in his death.

 

What that translates into in terms of financial payment to the family, the way things work in Thailand, could be the subject of a "negotiation" with police, a settlement with the hotel's insurance presuming they have coverage, and/or the result of a civil lawsuit in Thai courts, which would be a long and difficult trek for a British family living abroad to mount...

 

All of that, assuming of course, that the guy did in fact die in the manner reported in the article -- no city, no hotel name, no mention of Thai police involvement, etc etc.

 

clearly the hotel would be legally responsible, and probably legally negligent, in his death.

Really? Is there a law in Thailand that says the entity that pays an electrician to do a job is liable for the competence of that electrician? Is there even a certification process to verify the work was done safely?

Of course, if the owner of the hotel did the job, or sent the bellboy to do the job, and said bellboy had no electrical training or qualification, then owner of hotel would be liable.

[nahkit]

7 hours ago, bristolgeoff said:

one more person on the list with no insurance.why not get travel insurance problem solved.now they go begging please help my family.no way sorry

Problem solved?  So if he had purchased travel insurance he would never have been electrocuted right? I think you seem to be missing what the real problem is in this story.

[garbolino]

7 hours ago, bristolgeoff said:

one more person on the list with no insurance.why not get travel insurance problem solved.now they go begging please help my family.no way sorry

would travel insurance PAY for such an accident??

[orchis]

this topic should be closed until you can come up with some facts.

[Scouse123]

11 hours ago, Basil B said:

As much as I agree with your sentiment in this instance what is needed is a good lawyer.

 

We are talking THAILAND buddy, you won't get one for this kind of unfortunate incident.

 

 

[Rangerdriver]

10 hours ago, Moonmoon said:

Oh dear...

 

be careful as safety standards here are not as good as some of ours' back home.

Some big major shopping centres which (I will not named) I had visited; I had been electrocuted before holding on to handrails or metal barricades of escalators though it is nothing serious here but still...

if accidents do happened, nothing much can be done as laws and regulations here are pretty lax.

 

Take care.

RIP Grandad... Very sad for you being a victim of electrical incompetence.

Get a qualified farang electrician to check your house is safe before one of your family finds out for you. 

[shaurene]

Hotel say they can't afford to help. What about the police that bring the parties together to get a satisfactory compensation agreement. Surely there is some Thai department that they can go to for this. You can be sure if it was a Falang hotel the police would be charging them a crime if it was a Thai that died.

Only in Thailand.

[Jonmarleesco]

I wonder if the hotel could find the money to avoid being sued? Always assuming their 'alleged' admission was an admission.

8 hours ago, bristolgeoff said:

one more person on the list with no insurance.why not get travel insurance problem solved.now they go begging please help my family.no way sorry

Travel insurance to cover moronic hotel-management's ineptness?

[Scouse123]

14 minutes ago, Mansinthe said:

 Yeah some pay to bring your body back. Some even pay for meds that need to be brought into the country or familie members that need to stay with you. 

 

But get a good one. Guys still dead though. But i wouldn't want to burden my familie with thousands of euros only to save a few hundred on a insurance.

 

Sorry, but these stories bring out my cynical side.

 

First. Extremely sorry and what terrible luck for the gentleman in question. RIP. I can't believe his terrible misfortune.

 

Moving on, older people usually, a lot more than younger ones, tend to be sticklers for things such as insurance, is there insurance in place? If there is, it is the duty of the insurer to fight with the hotel for the money but in the meantime repatriate this guy depending on level of cover.

 

What I DO NOT LIKE OR TRUST are Go fund me pages set up by grandchildren or children. These are the new scams in my book, it's got tough getting money from insurers for ' spurious whiplash claims ' or ' delayed flight claims '  so the new one is Go fund me, where the victim is the same, ANYBODY EXCEPT THEM!! generous enough to dig deep.

 

Yes, the hotel is at fault and yes, in the UK you could take them to the cleaners but guys, look at this country! It's a country where they never admit fault or guilt, whereb the first thought after a road accident is to ' flee the scene ' where nearly half the road users, be it motorbikes or cars, are uninsured or under insured.

 

It is one of the worst aspects of living in Thailand unfortunately.

[Basil B]

5 hours ago, chrissables said:

Sitting at home and planning my holiday, i would always think "am i covered by insurance if a hotel is negligent and kills me".

 

He was not hang gliding or scuba diving. 

 

Have some compassion. 

Many Travel insurances do cover SCUBA Diving, with understandable limitations. 

[Jonmarleesco]

54 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

clearly the hotel would be legally responsible, and probably legally negligent, in his death.

Really? Is there a law in Thailand that says the entity that pays an electrician to do a job is liable for the competence of that electrician? Is there even a certification process to verify the work was done safely?

Of course, if the owner of the hotel did the job, or sent the bellboy to do the job, and said bellboy had no electrical training or qualification, then owner of hotel would be liable.

The 'electrician's' liable to the hotel. The hotel is obviously liable to their guests.

[toofarnorth]

3 hours ago, David Walden said:

I have no figures on electrocutions in Thailand but from a good source in Manilla 6 people each day die from stealing power or from un-earthed power outlets or just in the home from legit power sources.  Manilla is about 20 million + people.  Thailand's population is about 3 times that number, so it figures that lots similar uneathed crappy electrical outlets exist even in posh hotels there.  I wonder how many Thais die each day from this silly use of electricity.  I would guess perhaps 10 a day.  Only tourist deaths seem to be reported.  There seems to be no point in earthing individual outlets as the devices are not made to be earthed.  In the condotel complex I live in 700 units nothing is earthed.  I suppose if not too many people get electrocuted in Thailand each day that should be OK??   TIT

Yes , towards the end you said ..............devices are not made to be earthed. Under my desk where I am sitting is a 6 plug adapter , any 3 pin plug can be pushed in but the cable to the wall socket is live and neutral only , ok so I can plug in my mower ( 3 pin ) if I wish but there is NO earth.

[user4674534]

I think the clue that this is a scam is in the ‘alleged’ victims name ‘Wally’.

wally

A wally is infact someone who is very intelligent in some areas but very stupid (almost unbelievably) in others, eg such as clumsiness.

E.g. You spilt your drink all over my bedside table you wally.

 

This definition covers the people creating the scam and those who fall for it.

[Jonmarleesco]

'"We also have to come to the realisation that we are looking to prosecute a company for gross negligence that have financial difficulties in a very poor country.'

 

Hmm. They need to rethink that assumption.

[Jonmarleesco]

9 minutes ago, Blinky said:

I think the clue that this is a scam is in the ‘alleged’ victims name ‘Wally’.

wally

A wally is infact someone who is very intelligent in some areas but very stupid (almost unbelievably) in others, eg such as clumsiness.

E.g. You spilt your drink all over my bedside table you wally.

 

This definition covers the people creating the scam and those who fall for it.

Well, why don't you try the 'electrocution scam'. Be sure to survive so you can tell us how it was.

[Basil B]

3 hours ago, David Walden said:

I have no figures on electrocutions in Thailand but from a good source in Manilla 6 people each day die from stealing power or from un-earthed power outlets or just in the home from legit power sources.  Manilla is about 20 million + people.  Thailand's population is about 3 times that number, so it figures that lots similar uneathed crappy electrical outlets exist even in posh hotels there.  I wonder how many Thais die each day from this silly use of electricity.  I would guess perhaps 10 a day.  Only tourist deaths seem to be reported.  There seems to be no point in earthing individual outlets as the devices are not made to be earthed.  In the condotel complex I live in 700 units nothing is earthed.  I suppose if not too many people get electrocuted in Thailand each day that should be OK??   TIT

I recall many instances in Thailand where there has been a fatality while connecting to the power lines, most have been due to wiring up light boxes on power poles.

 

Even here in the UK steeling (extracting) electricity/gas is common, I have seen seen many, and although I know of no electrocutions, there have been many fires due to meter by-passes.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, nahkit said:

Problem solved?  So if he had purchased travel insurance he would never have been electrocuted right? I think you seem to be missing what the real problem is in this story.

 

The reason to get good, comprehensive travel insurance is to save one's family from these kinds of problems and hardships should the insured die or become seriously injured while abroad.

 

It's enough emotional turmoil to have a loved one die or become seriously injured. Family in those cases really shouldn't be burdened with the additional turmoil of financial hardships because the traveler didn't bother to obtain appropriate travel insurance coverage to protect not only him/herself, but also their family/loved ones.

 

The fact that Thailand has lax / non-enforced safety standards only increases the need for good insurance coverage. No one can protect themselves from all unknown /  unpredictable maladies. But you certainly can protect yourself and your family regarding what happens should you fall victim to one of them.