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Hariri to leave Saudi Arabia for France on Friday: MP

By Laila Bassam and Lisa Barrington

 

Lebanon's Prime Minister Saad al-Hariri, who has resigned, is seen during Future television interview, in a coffee shop in Beirut, Lebanon November 12, 2017. REUTERS/Jamal Saidi

 

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Saad al-Hariri, who sparked a crisis by resigning as Lebanese prime minister on Nov. 4 during a visit to Saudi Arabia, will leave Riyadh for France on Friday, a member of his party said, but will not return directly to Beirut after the visit.

 

"Today to Paris, this afternoon, and tomorrow a family meeting with (French President Emmanuel) Macron," Okab Saqr, a member of parliament for Future Movement, told Reuters.

 

Saqr said that after Hariri's visit to France, he would have "a small Arab tour" before travelling to Beirut.

 

Macron, speaking in Sweden, said Hariri "intends to return to his country in the coming days, weeks".

 

Hariri's abrupt resignation while he was in Saudi Arabia and his continued stay there caused fears over Lebanon's stability and thrust it into the bitter rivalry between Riyadh and Iran.

 

Saudi Arabia and its allies are fighting for sway across the region against a bloc led by Iran, which includes the heavily armed Lebanese Shi'ite Hezbollah group.

 

In Lebanon, Hariri has long been an ally of Riyadh. His coalition government, formed in a political deal last year to end years of paralysis, includes Hezbollah.

 

President Michel Aoun, a political ally of Hezbollah, has called Hariri a Saudi hostage and refused to accept his resignation unless he returns to Lebanon.

 

Saudi Arabia and Hariri say his movements are not restricted. On Wednesday, Macron invited Hariri to visit France along with his family, providing what French diplomats said might be a way to reduce tensions surrounding the crisis by demonstrating that Hariri could leave Saudi Arabia.

 

Lebanese politicians from across the political spectrum have called for Hariri to return to the country, saying it is necessary to resolve the crisis.

 

Foreign Minister Gebran Bassil, who heads President Aoun's political party, said on Thursday Beirut could escalate the crisis if Hariri did not return home.

 

"We have adopted self-restraint so far to arrive at this result so that we don't head towards diplomatic escalation and the other measures available to us," he said during a European tour aimed at building pressure for a solution to the crisis.

 

REGIONAL CRISIS

 

Saudi Arabia regards Hezbollah as a conduit for Iranian interference across the Middle East, particularly in Syria, Yemen and Bahrain. It says it has no problem with Hezbollah remaining a purely political party, but has demanded it surrender its arms, which the group says are needed to defend Lebanon.

 

Although Riyadh has said it accepted Hariri's decision to join a coalition with Hezbollah last year, after Hariri announced his resignation Saudi Arabia accused Lebanon of declaring war on it because of Hezbollah's regional role.

 

Lebanon, where Sunni, Shi'ite, Christian and Druze groups fought a 1975-1990 civil war, maintains a governing system intended to balance sectarian groups. The prime minister is traditionally from the Sunni community, of which Hariri is the most influential leader.

 

On Friday, Hariri said in a tweet that his presence in Saudi Arabia was for "consultations on the future of the situation in Lebanon and its relations with the surrounding Arab region".

 

His scheduled meeting with Macron in Paris on Saturday, and a lunch that his family will also attend, comes the day before Arab foreign ministers meet in Cairo to discuss Iran.

 

Maha Yahya, director of the Carnegie Middle East Centre in Beirut, says it appears Saudi Arabia hopes the ministers will adopt a "strongly worded statement" against Iran.

 

But she said not all the countries share Riyadh's view that one way to confront Iran is to apply pressure on Lebanon.

 

"There is quite a widespread understanding that there is only so much Lebanon can do and it doesn't serve anybody to turn Lebanon into your next arena for a fight between Iran and Saudi Arabia," said.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-11-18

[BuaBS]

From one muslim country to another . He'll be right at home in France.

[dexterm]

4 hours ago, BuaBS said:

From one muslim country to another . He'll be right at home in France.

Ignorant redneck Islamophobic troll that contributes zilch to the discussion. 

 

Back to OP..

"He left two of his children behind in school in Riyadh when he flew to Paris."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42034563

 

Will Hariri be able to speak as freely as He may have wanted to?

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Ignorant redneck Islamophobic troll that contributes zilch to the discussion. 

 

Back to OP..

"He left two of his children behind in school in Riyadh when he flew to Paris."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42034563

 

Will Hariri be able to speak as freely as He may have wanted to?

That's a very good point. 

[Morch]

12 hours ago, dexterm said:

Ignorant redneck Islamophobic troll that contributes zilch to the discussion. 

 

Back to OP..

"He left two of his children behind in school in Riyadh when he flew to Paris."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42034563

 

Will Hariri be able to speak as freely as He may have wanted to?

 

I think his children were in school there before his resignation. Funny how this seems like a credible threat, whereas the presence in country of an armed-to-the-teeth organization which was involved in killing his father, is apparently a non-issue.

[Morch]

12 hours ago, oilinki said:

That's a very good point. 

 

No, it's a trivial one. Pretty much all leading figures in Lebanese politics have a history of family members being killed over politics.

[dexterm]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

No, it's a trivial one. Pretty much all leading figures in Lebanese politics have a history of family members being killed over politics.

Of course it's a valid point. 
Whether his children were in school there before his resignation is irrelevant. When all his loved ones are out of harm's way, perhaps we may hear the truth about Saudi destabilizing intrigue in Lebanon.

[dexterm]

12 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I think his children were in school there before his resignation. Funny how this seems like a credible threat, whereas the presence in country of an armed-to-the-teeth organization which was involved in killing his father, is apparently a non-issue.

They need to be armed to the teeth to defend themselves against their hostile armed to the teeth neighbors.

[Morch]

48 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Of course it's a valid point. 
Whether his children were in school there before his resignation is irrelevant. When all his loved ones are out of harm's way, perhaps we may hear the truth about Saudi destabilizing intrigue in Lebanon.

 

It may be a valid point, but still trivial in the context of Lebanese politics.

If his kids were in Saudi Arabia prior to his resignation, and yet no objections (such as yours) were raised, then it would imply it wasn't much of an issue up to now, and that it is currently used to score some imaginary points.

 

As for his family being out of harm's way, you seem to skip the part where his father was assassinated, where it happened and by whom.

 

If one was to follow the "logic" of your post, then removal of the Hezbollah's persistent threat may have encouraged exposure of details as to Iran's "destabilizing intrigue in Lebanon".

 

45 minutes ago, dexterm said:

They need to be armed to the teeth to defend themselves against their hostile armed to the teeth neighbors.

 

That would be a task meant for the Lebanese army, rather than a sectarian organization often operating under foreign instructions and agenda. The same weapons were used against fellow Lebanese, in service of agendas which are not Lebanon's or run against Lebanon's interests as a whole.

 

 

 

 

 

[dexterm]

23 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

It may be a valid point, but still trivial in the context of Lebanese politics.

If his kids were in Saudi Arabia prior to his resignation, and yet no objections (such as yours) were raised, then it would imply it wasn't much of an issue up to now, and that it is currently used to score some imaginary points.

 

As for his family being out of harm's way, you seem to skip the part where his father was assassinated, where it happened and by whom.

 

If one was to follow the "logic" of your post, then removal of the Hezbollah's persistent threat may have encouraged exposure of details as to Iran's "destabilizing intrigue in Lebanon".

 

 

That would be a task meant for the Lebanese army, rather than a sectarian organization often operating under foreign instructions and agenda. The same weapons were used against fellow Lebanese, in service of agendas which are not Lebanon's or run against Lebanon's interests as a whole.

 

 

 

 

 

>> it would imply it wasn't much of an issue up to now
...precisely! Up until now Saudis were not summoning Hariri to SA and pressuring him to resign.

The only one trying to score imaginary points seems to be you.
.."It may be a valid point, but..." then you take a dig at Hezbollah to further your own agenda. I sometimes think you argue just for the sake of arguing.

 

"They need to be armed to the teeth to defend themselves against their hostile armed to the teeth neighbors."
....applies to both their hostile neighbors to the south and their domestic hostile neighbors, supported again by that power to the south.

Edited November 19, 2017 by dexterm

[Morch]

1 minute ago, dexterm said:

>> it would imply it wasn't much of an issue up to now
...precisely! Up until now Saudis were not summoning Hariri to SA and pressuring him to resign.

The only one trying to score imaginary points seems to be you.
.."It may be a vaid point, but..." then you take a dig at Hezbollah to further your own agenda.

 

"They need to be armed to the teeth to defend themselves against their hostile armed to the teeth neighbors."
....applies to both their hostile neighbors to the south and their domestic hostile neighbors, supported again by that power to the south.

 

Back to twisting other poster's words, I see.

 

Precisely how? The point made was with regard to your current view being contrived. Doubt you were even aware of Hariri's family circumstances prior to this. Can't recall you making these sort of comments with regard to previous events related to Hariri.

 

You whine about Hariri's decisions being influenced by Saudi pressure, possibly using his family as leverage. How is pointing out that Hariri is subject to similar pressure by Hezbollah, "taking a dig"? Hezbollah is the only massively armed sectarian group in Lebanon, and that it has a history of using this as political leverage, not least of which was the assassination of Hariri's father.

 

The Hezbollah does not have any "domestic hostile neighbors" which are similarly armed, or even come close. And none of these are currently militarily supported in the way you suggest.

 

Can't have the cake and eat it too. If you object to foreign meddling in Lebanon, and to the culture of political violence that goes hand in hand with it - there is no way you can reasonably ignore Hezbollah's actions and role in this context.

[dexterm]

15 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Back to twisting other poster's words, I see.

 

Precisely how? The point made was with regard to your current view being contrived. Doubt you were even aware of Hariri's family circumstances prior to this. Can't recall you making these sort of comments with regard to previous events related to Hariri.

 

You whine about Hariri's decisions being influenced by Saudi pressure, possibly using his family as leverage. How is pointing out that Hariri is subject to similar pressure by Hezbollah, "taking a dig"? Hezbollah is the only massively armed sectarian group in Lebanon, and that it has a history of using this as political leverage, not least of which was the assassination of Hariri's father.

 

The Hezbollah does not have any "domestic hostile neighbors" which are similarly armed, or even come close. And none of these are currently militarily supported in the way you suggest.

 

Can't have the cake and eat it too. If you object to foreign meddling in Lebanon, and to the culture of political violence that goes hand in hand with it - there is no way you can reasonably ignore Hezbollah's actions and role in this context.

Straw man argument. 
I did not make an issue of where Hariri's children were educated before now, because it was not an issue...now it is...SA's actions have made it one...as I precisely stated above.

 

If the Shia in Lebanon do not look after themselves with the help of Iran, who will...Israel? Sunni Saudi? Phalangists?

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Straw man argument. 
I did not make an issue of where Hariri's children were educated before now, because it was not an issue...now it is...SA's actions have made it one...as I precisely stated above.

 

If the Shia in Lebanon do not look after themselves with the help of Iran, who will...Israel? Sunni Saudi? Phalangists?

 

Straw man how? If Hariri's family's presence in Saudi Arabia is used as leverage, then there is no reason to believe it wasn't the "arrangement" to begin with. Can't recall you ever mentioning it or objecting to it, and doubt you would have passed on the opportunity had you been aware of the situation. It has nothing to do with you "precisely" twisting my words.

 

As for you other "argument" - the Hezbollah are currently the only heavily armed sectarian organization in Lebanon, and the only one being militarily supported by outside forces. The other sectarian factions basically disarmed quite a while back. Who is "looking after" them? Well, that would be the Lebanese army and security forces. Seems like your position is that sectarianism is to be upheld over a unifying approach, while going on about destabilization etc...

[dexterm]

58 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Straw man how? If Hariri's family's presence in Saudi Arabia is used as leverage, then there is no reason to believe it wasn't the "arrangement" to begin with. Can't recall you ever mentioning it or objecting to it, and doubt you would have passed on the opportunity had you been aware of the situation. It has nothing to do with you "precisely" twisting my words.

 

As for you other "argument" - the Hezbollah are currently the only heavily armed sectarian organization in Lebanon, and the only one being militarily supported by outside forces. The other sectarian factions basically disarmed quite a while back. Who is "looking after" them? Well, that would be the Lebanese army and security forces. Seems like your position is that sectarianism is to be upheld over a unifying approach, while going on about destabilization etc...

>> then there is no reason to believe it wasn't the "arrangement" to begin with. 

...there's your hypothetical belief which leads to your strawman argument.

Your hypothesis, not mine.

Edited November 19, 2017 by dexterm

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, dexterm said:

>> then there is no reason to believe it wasn't the "arrangement" to begin with. 

...there's your hypothetical belief which leads to your strawman argument.

 

As opposed to your "factual knowledge" of Saudi Arabia currently using Hariri's family as leverage? There is no straw man argument, there's you unwilling to acknowledge anything that doesn't fit into your contrived point of view.

[dexterm]

15 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

As opposed to your "factual knowledge" of Saudi Arabia currently using Hariri's family as leverage? There is no straw man argument, there's you unwilling to acknowledge anything that doesn't fit into your contrived point of view.

If you think the leverage that Saudis hold over Hariri was so important previously. You wrote:
"If Hariri's family's presence in Saudi Arabia is used as leverage, then there is no reason to believe it wasn't the "arrangement" to begin with"
... why didn't you mention it previously? Same thing you are accusing me of.

 

If I were Hariri, I would naturally act in the interests of the Sunni cause in Lebanon as its Sunni PM, but I sure as hell as wouldn't go mouthing off against Saudi Arabia in the present situation knowing my kids are still there.

Edited November 19, 2017 by dexterm

[Morch]

1 minute ago, dexterm said:

If you think the leverage that Saudis hold over Hariri was so important previously. You wrote:
"If Hariri's family's presence in Saudi Arabia is used as leverage, then there is no reason to believe it wasn't the "arrangement" to begin with"
... why didn't you mention it previously? Same thing you are accusing me of.

 

If I were Hariri, I might be sympathetic to the Sunni cause in Lebanon as its Sunni PM, but I sure as hell as wouldn't go mouthing off against Saudi Arabia in the present situation knowing my kids are still there.

 

It's not even clear what you think you're on about. Why didn't I argue your point of view? Because I'm not daft.

 

I have actually mentioned Hariri's ties to Saudi Arabia, and some of the leverage they may apply, on previous posts, both recent and past. Only I refuse to ignore that affiliations to foreign powers, coercion and applying political leverage are at the core of Lebanese politics. This is not a singular instance, no matter how you spin it. Nor are such practices limited to a specific party.

 

You are not Hariri, only a poster co-opting him for an lame argument. A more honest, or balanced view, would not fail to acknowledge that Hariri may have similar misgivings mouthing off against Hezbollah or Iran, seeing how his father ended up, and not wishing to live his kids orphans (which was a sentiment he actually conveyed).

 

[dexterm]

14 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

It's not even clear what you think you're on about. Why didn't I argue your point of view? Because I'm not daft.

 

I have actually mentioned Hariri's ties to Saudi Arabia, and some of the leverage they may apply, on previous posts, both recent and past. Only I refuse to ignore that affiliations to foreign powers, coercion and applying political leverage are at the core of Lebanese politics. This is not a singular instance, no matter how you spin it. Nor are such practices limited to a specific party.

 

You are not Hariri, only a poster co-opting him for an lame argument. A more honest, or balanced view, would not fail to acknowledge that Hariri may have similar misgivings mouthing off against Hezbollah or Iran, seeing how his father ended up, and not wishing to live his kids orphans (which was a sentiment he actually conveyed).

 

What am I on about?
I made a simple point about Hariri possibly being under personal pressure which you agreed "May be valid". 

 

Then you proceeded pedantically to argue the hind leg off a donkey, as is you wont, with straw man arguments, simply in an attempt to get the last word in.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, dexterm said:

What am I on about?
I made a simple point about Hariri possibly being under personal pressure which you agreed "May be valid". 

 

Then you proceeded pedantically to argue the hind leg off a donkey, as is you wont, with straw man arguments, simply in an attempt to get the last word in.

 

That's a a very partial and inaccurate representation of what I actually posted.