You are Going to Die – Are You Ready

[bazza73]

1 minute ago, MaeJoMTB said:

That's because only (99%) white male Anglo Saxons (mostly of Germanic origins) invent stuff.

The whole world we live in was made by white men.

Muslim mathematicians, scientists and doctors were pre-eminent when the whole of Europe was still in the Dark Ages. In the 1600's, Germany was basically a wasteland subject to squabbling princelets and marauding French, Spaniards, Swedes and Poles. So the question is, what went wrong for Islam?

[MaeJoMTB]

25 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

Muslim mathematicians, scientists and doctors were pre-eminent when the whole of Europe was still in the Dark Ages. In the 1600's, Germany was basically a wasteland subject to squabbling princelets and marauding French, Spaniards, Swedes and Poles. So the question is, what went wrong for Islam?

 Yeah, the Chinese also discovered a lot, but most of their inventions were never developed into useful applications.

It's the drive to make and innovate that the white folks had and everyone else didn't.

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, bazza73 said:

Muslim mathematicians, scientists and doctors were pre-eminent when the whole of Europe was still in the Dark Ages. In the 1600's, Germany was basically a wasteland subject to squabbling princelets and marauding French, Spaniards, Swedes and Poles. So the question is, what went wrong for Islam?

Religion.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 2:28 PM, seancbk said:

However, once we can copy exactly what is going on in a living human brain, perhaps we will discover that we can transfer (copy) a consciousness from a human to a computer.  The key is sufficiently powerful quantum computers.

 

 

I'm educated enough to know that 'electrical energy' that was once contained in a living human does not carry any memories, when it dissipates after the person dies.   Energy is energy, it isn't the data.

 

I'm sure we'd develop suitable controls to deal with people like that.   We could even create our own version of hell to put them in.

 

Immortality in a digital realm would not be the same as immortality in a human body.  

 

They can make a computer that can think, but it can't turn itself on. Likewise if they make a humanoid body.

 

I'm aware that electricity isn't the data. The point is whether human brain data exists without electricity or not. No one knows.

 

The only people that will be able to afford to become immortal will be bad people. So much for that idea.

Read about the cymeks in the Dune series if you want to know why it's a bad idea to allow bad people to have a digital brain.

Edited December 2, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

 Yeah, the Chinese also discovered a lot, but most of their inventions were never developed into useful applications.

It's the drive to make and innovate that the white folks had and everyone else didn't.

It's a bit late now, but it wasn't a good idea for western people to get everything made in China so they could steal all our ideas.

Who needs to be innovative if the innovative people give it away for free?

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

 Yeah, the Chinese also discovered a lot, but most of their inventions were never developed into useful applications.

It's the drive to make and innovate that the white folks had and everyone else didn't.

All the really good inventions were made by a very small number of people. We owe everything to hardly any people, most of whom are unknown or unremembered.

Eg, WW2 was probably won by Babbage, Turing and Mitchell, without whom Britain would have fallen to the Nazis.

[bazza73]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

All the really good inventions were made by a very small number of people. We owe everything to hardly any people, most of whom are unknown or unremembered.

Eg, WW2 was probably won by Babbage, Turing and Mitchell, without whom Britain would have fallen to the Nazis.

Alan Turing wasn't showered with gratitude by the Brits. His reputation has only been rehabilitated in England over the last 5 years or so. Hounded into suicide.

Interesting to contrast his treatment with that of Douglas Haig, whose incompetence killed 2 million troops under his command during World War I. There's a statue of him in Whitehall still.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, bazza73 said:

Alan Turing wasn't showered with gratitude by the Brits. His reputation has only been rehabilitated in England over the last 5 years or so. Hounded into suicide.

Interesting to contrast his treatment with that of Douglas Haig, whose incompetence killed 2 million troops under his command during World War I. There's a statue of him in Whitehall still.

Alan Turing wasn't showered with gratitude by the Brits.

True, but that was the point I was making.

Difference between him and haig- haig wasn't a homosexual, which in Britain was a crime probably regarded as worse than manslaughter.

If you think haig was bad, check out Henry 8. I've been watching the BBC series and he was a very bad man ( a lot of English died in the seige of Boulogne ).

[totally thaied up]

36 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If you think haig was bad, check out Henry 8. I've been watching the BBC series and he was a very bad man ( a lot of English died in the seige of Boulogne ).

The series the Tudors?

 

Henry VIII killed I do not know how many but it would have been in the 10's of thousands of his own.

 

His daughter Mary, after taking the Throne after Henry's young son died (Edward VI), burnt more people at the stake then you could count. 

 

I will not throw the faith of religion into this debate about how we feel about death, but I think that no matter the way we look at it all, this world was brought up on violence and death.  Working out how to kill people on mass has also made it possible to also extend our lives.

 

Only a few hundred years earlier with a much shorter lifespan, we thought different enough. Today, our lives now are much better. We have much better medical practices, and death has far avoided a lot of us now by a period of maybe more than 20 years plus from such advances.

 

So yes, we are now avoiding death but in the more ingenious way of that of the past and that is from humankind's achievements. 

[bazza73]

1 hour ago, totally thaied up said:

.  Working out how to kill people on mass has also made it possible to also extend our lives.

 

Only a few hundred years earlier with a much shorter lifespan, we thought different enough. Today, our lives now are much better. We have much better medical practices, and death has far avoided a lot of us now by a period of maybe more than 20 years plus from such advances.

 

So yes, we are now avoiding death but in the more ingenious way of that of the past and that is from humankind's achievements. 

I'd be very interested in the logic of your first sentence ( what I quoted ).

Agree with the rest, although it really is about quality of life. Can't see the point of living the last 5 years of one's life crapping into a nappy.

Without modern medical science, I would have been dead about 10 years ago. Religion would not have helped one iota.

[totally thaied up]

1 minute ago, bazza73 said:

Working out how to kill people on mass has also made it possible to also extend our lives.

 

 

My Grandfather was a medic during the second world war. He told me he became ingenious at finding out how to keep someone alive.

 

Over thousands of years, someone was always pulling the knife out of someone's stomach that got knifed or someone trying to put a skull back to pieces after getting clubbed

. 

Drugs, advancements in putting people back together came from parts of this all. Things got learnt from putting people back together, and things get passed up the food chain to much brighter and smarter people that work out how to just make our life better. Hence we are living longer. 

 

Hopefully, that living longer is in the realm of non-nappy type. Living in pain sucks but that is another topic.

 

Maybe one day when we are evolved enough and not scared of death, those last few years of sitting in a nappy can be avoided by advancements in medicine or that we can plan our death as we see fit because, at this stage, we are not going to beat the reaper.

 

I am not ready yet for my brain to be in a computer box as I do enjoy my sleeping when the world does feel wearisome. I think the great wars had a lot to play in all of this and it indeed is now an exciting time to be alive. My Grandmother died at 99, and when she was watching Netflix and FaceTiming her Grandchildren countries away, she would quote, ''To think once I was dancing in the underground to keep up spirits while Hitler was trying to kill us all. Lord, I thought we were technical back then with someone playing the accordion or the next night watching a film on a sheet!''

 

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, bazza73 said:

I'd be very interested in the logic of your first sentence ( what I quoted ).

Agree with the rest, although it really is about quality of life. Can't see the point of living the last 5 years of one's life crapping into a nappy.

Without modern medical science, I would have been dead about 10 years ago. Religion would not have helped one iota.

He may have used the wrong terminology. Wars using means of killing thousands in a day led to medical advancements that now keep people alive long enough to spend years crapping in a nappy.

Two centuries ago I'd have probably died at 40 or so, given my probable occupation.

[MaeJoMTB]

On 12/3/2017 at 5:34 PM, totally thaied up said:

Only a few hundred years earlier with a much shorter lifespan, we thought different enough. Today, our lives now are much better.  

Human lifespan hasn't changed in 2,000 years.

https://www.livescience.com/10569-human-lifespans-constant-2-000-years.html

 

The major difference has been women now kill our children by choice before they are born.

Before they died of whatever in infancy by misadventure.

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by MaeJoMTB

[bazza73]

39 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Human lifespan hasn't changed in 2,000 years.

https://www.livescience.com/10569-human-lifespans-constant-2-000-years.html

 

The major difference has been women now kill our children by choice before they are born.

Before they died of whatever in infancy by misadventure.

 

It really depends on which source you want to quote. In 1900, world average life expectancy at birth was 31 years. In 1950, 48 years. In 2014, 71.5 years. It's not just abortions that have influenced those numbers. Advances in our understanding of nutrition, standard of living and medical science have contributed.

In 1900, just about any form of cancer was a death sentence. Many cancers are now treatable. For example, BCG treatment of bladder cancer has resulted in a 95% complete remission rate.

Personally, I don't have a problem with abortion. There can be nothing worse than being an unwanted child - that's where a lot of the serial killers and psychopaths come from. IMHO it's better for one child to have a reasonable standard of living, than for three or four to be brought up in poverty. Although education in terms of contraception is preferable.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Human lifespan hasn't changed in 2,000 years.

https://www.livescience.com/10569-human-lifespans-constant-2-000-years.html

 

The major difference has been women now kill our children by choice before they are born.

Before they died of whatever in infancy by misadventure.

 

Preferable to stop pregnancy than abortion, but abortion preferable to unwanted child.

Strange things about humans- the ones that think it's wrong to abort a non viable foetus are often happy to send a grown up foetus to die horribly in war.

Seems to me that they care more about a person before born than after. Force them to be born and live in poverty.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 3:13 PM, bazza73 said:

Muslim mathematicians, scientists and doctors were pre-eminent when the whole of Europe was still in the Dark Ages. In the 1600's, Germany was basically a wasteland subject to squabbling princelets and marauding French, Spaniards, Swedes and Poles. So the question is, what went wrong for Islam?

The squabbling princelets stopped squabbling and united against the Muslims.

[swissie]

Back to topic:

 

Hard to prepere for something if you don't know what exactly to prepere for. Zillions of people have died, but none of those rascals have bothered to come back and give us any clues.

Problem is: Life itself doesn't make any sense. Being born, reproduce and then die. The next generation will do the same. No final purpose of it all detectable. Old folks wondering "What was it all for, what conclusive purpose has my existance served" (outside of reproduction.)?

Only 2 ways to go about it:
-Live is a "perpetuum mobile" that IS. Not needing an explanation as to WHY it IS. Not serving any specific purpose other than repeating itself as long as conditions on earth will allow.
- Most people find it impossible to accept that life serves no "higher purpose". To make this unbearable thought more bearable, humans invented "Religions", always in connection with some afterlife/rebirth. A desperate attempt to avoid the horrible thaught, that in the end, human remains only serve to keep the "perpetuum mobile" going by providing a certain amount of Bio-Mass, that the maggots will make good use of.
WARNING: Do not discuss such matters with Thai-Wife/GF. Their answer will always be: "You think too much".
Cheers.

 

[Ulysses G.]

5 hours ago, swissie said:

- Most people find it impossible to accept that life serves no "higher purpose". To make this unbearable thought more bearable, humans invented "Religions", always in connection with some afterlife/rebirth.

 

Makes a lot of sense to me.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, swissie said:

Back to topic:

 

Hard to prepere for something if you don't know what exactly to prepere for. Zillions of people have died, but none of those rascals have bothered to come back and give us any clues.

Problem is: Life itself doesn't make any sense. Being born, reproduce and then die. The next generation will do the same. No final purpose of it all detectable. Old folks wondering "What was it all for, what conclusive purpose has my existance served" (outside of reproduction.)?

Only 2 ways to go about it:
-Live is a "perpetuum mobile" that IS. Not needing an explanation as to WHY it IS. Not serving any specific purpose other than repeating itself as long as conditions on earth will allow.
- Most people find it impossible to accept that life serves no "higher purpose". To make this unbearable thought more bearable, humans invented "Religions", always in connection with some afterlife/rebirth. A desperate attempt to avoid the horrible thaught, that in the end, human remains only serve to keep the "perpetuum mobile" going by providing a certain amount of Bio-Mass, that the maggots will make good use of.
WARNING: Do not discuss such matters with Thai-Wife/GF. Their answer will always be: "You think too much".
Cheers.

 

Ah, the conundrum of life. Are we part of a greater existence or are we of no more importance than bacteria on the face of the planet, destined to be nothing after our biological transport mechanism ceases to function?

[Thaitoknow]

Yes

[Gruff]

On 12/7/2017 at 9:18 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Ah, the conundrum of life. Are we part of a greater existence or are we of no more importance than bacteria on the face of the planet, destined to be nothing after our biological transport mechanism ceases to function?

I agree with Swissie, our existence is without purpose.. Well i am sure mine is anyway ! 

[Been there done that]

On 12/9/2017 at 3:47 PM, Gruff said:

I agree with Swissie, our existence is without purpose.. Well i am sure mine is anyway ! 

My existence is with a purpose though. One only knows, or gets interested in, it when one has seen black snow. 

 

Shallowness is a virtue though, it makes existing much easier 

[i claudius]

Life starts .life stops. Humans have been on the planet for the blink of an eye
In the life of the planet we may last another blink.thats all there is .Enjoy your little bit. There is nothing else

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[giddyup]

A switch gets thrown, then it's lights out for eternity.

[bannork]

6 minutes ago, i claudius said:

Life starts .life stops. Humans have been on the planet for the blink of an eye
In the life of the planet we may last another blink.thats all there is .Enjoy your little bit. There is nothing else

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

How do you know there is nothing else?

[bannork]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

A switch gets thrown, then it's lights out for eternity.

I dont understand eternity. It means forever, right?  But forever is a concept defined by time, for it means time goes on and on and on and on and never stops.

But when we are dead, are we not beyond time? Time has lost irs meaning, we are no longer in time. So eternity is a concept we cannot apply to when we are dead.

It could be lights on.......... in a sphere beyond time.

Far out....

 

 

[totally thaied up]

On 07/12/2017 at 4:18 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

WARNING: Do not discuss such matters with Thai-Wife/GF. Their answer will always be: "You think too much".
Cheers.

 

We spoke about this in fact. My wife was in an unfortunately bad accident at 17. She has a small piece of stomach left, the spleen is gone and only had about a 1/4 of a liver left. She told me during this time she cannot remember a thing for around 14 days. It was just a blank nothing. For myself, it was much the same at 19 when I almost died, and again, it was for me, just an empty bit of nothing.

 

My wife says there is nothing and I have to agree with that. Can you remember anything before birth? 

[bannork]

2 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

We spoke about this in fact. My wife was in an unfortunately bad accident at 17. She has a small piece of stomach left, the spleen is gone and only had about a 1/4 of a liver left. She told me during this time she cannot remember a thing for around 14 days. It was just a blank nothing. For myself, it was much the same at 19 when I almost died, and again, it was for me, just an empty bit of nothing.

 

My wife says there is nothing and I have to agree with that. Can you remember anything before birth? 

Before you were born, you, whatever you means, was not in this time and space, so you would hardly be likely to remember anything whilst in this life from another dimension. Interestingly, in our dreams time fades away but we seemto be still present in 3D format, otherwise we would be unrecognizable to ourselves.

[JHolmesJr]

Looks like fun and mirth just flow when Op and gang get together. 

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, totally thaied up said:

We spoke about this in fact. My wife was in an unfortunately bad accident at 17. She has a small piece of stomach left, the spleen is gone and only had about a 1/4 of a liver left. She told me during this time she cannot remember a thing for around 14 days. It was just a blank nothing. For myself, it was much the same at 19 when I almost died, and again, it was for me, just an empty bit of nothing.

 

My wife says there is nothing and I have to agree with that. Can you remember anything before birth? 

I know I had a great life when I was young, but I remember little to nothing of it. Does that mean it never happened?

When one has an operation one should remember nothing. Does that mean one was dead during the operation?

I looked after a new born that exhibited all the attributes of awareness till it went to sleep. After it woke up it was a normal baby with no awareness. I like to think that baby did remember before it was born, but lost the memory when it went to sleep.

IMO human existence would be impossible with prelife awareness, and not a single living soul knows what is to come.