Catch 22 with Business Visa and not working

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, ThaiM said:

Yes you are probably right but lets say I need sign a document then its consider work so then I need a work permit as a "paper signer"...

I think you best option is to get a work permit as a director of the company. That is an allowed profession to get one.

Then you could get a multiple entry non-b visa or a one year extension of stay.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, ThaiM said:

Yes you are probably right but lets say I need sign a document then its consider work so then I need a work permit as a "paper signer"...

And do you have a specific list of what is considering work and not work for a company?

You can sign anything when setting up the business. It's impossible to have a WP before the business is set up.

 

Once the business is set up you need a WP to be employed by the business to do anything. As a company director you are limited to attending board meetings without a WP. If you want to sign a cheque you would need a WP.

 

Activities not considered as “work”
According to the Announcement of the Department of Employment dated 6 March 2015, the following activities are not considered as “work” anymore and therefore do not require a work permit:

• Attending a meeting, a discussion, or a seminar;
• Attending an exhibition or a trade show;
• Attending a business trip or a business discussion;
• Attending a special or academic lecture;
• Attending a training and a technical seminar;
• Purchasing goods in a trade show; and
• Attending a Board of Directors meeting of one’s own company.

 

 

[jimster]

On 11/23/2017 at 11:05 PM, ThaiM said:

And how can I get this:

 

8. A letter of invitation from trading or associated partners/companies in Thailand.

9. A copy of a Business Registration and a Business License  of trading or associated partners/companies in Thailand (not older than 6 months  and up to one year)

 

...when I will go to Thailand to conduct business but not yet have invest some money in the company?

8. Very easy - just get them to write a letter printed on their company letterhead explaining the need for you to visit Thailand. Also mention the need to travel in/out of Thailand multiple times. You could even write the letter yourself and get them to copy/paste it onto their letterhead.

 

9. This is not always needed - depends on the consulate/embassy you apply at. If needed it's just a matter of obtaining a copy of this from the company concerned - very easy.

 

Do note that in some countries approval to apply for a non-B multi now needs to be done through the embassy - this is the case in Australia. However, this does not necessarily mean it's more difficult to obtain such a visa than before, just that the embassy needs to approve the application which was previously done by the honorary consulate or consulate-general itself. Processing time has not necessarily increased either.

[JAZZDOG]

Somewhat related, just bought a company that holds leases, licences for guesthouse/cafe. Thai has 51%, I have 49% plus sole powers to sign for the company. Company has two work permits. I am debating to stick with my retirement visa or go with the W visa. I most diffenately need to be able to sign off should I sell the company at some point but I was told using the work permit would be somewhat costly in taxes per month if indeed I didnt intend to work, which I would rather not. My attorney did not mention today anything about not being able to sign for the company should I not have/use one of the work permits. Seems indeed a catch22?

[elviajero]

13 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Somewhat related, just bought a company that holds leases, licences for guesthouse/cafe. Thai has 51%, I have 49% plus sole powers to sign for the company. Company has two work permits. I am debating to stick with my retirement visa or go with the W visa. I most diffenately need to be able to sign off should I sell the company at some point but I was told using the work permit would be somewhat costly in taxes per month if indeed I didnt intend to work, which I would rather not. My attorney did not mention today anything about not being able to sign for the company should I not have/use one of the work permits. Seems indeed a catch22?

You can sign anything in the capacity of a shareholder. You only need a work permit if employed by the company. No catch 22 or problem.

[chickenrunCM]

On 24.11.2017 at 1:01 AM, PoorSucker said:

Be aware that you can not sign any company documents without a work permit. 

as a shareholder you can sign company documents, you dont need to have a bussines visa for being an shareholder. 

If you not have a work permit you can´t be director in the company, you will need another one. But have shares in a company you can do with a 30 days stamp or a tourist visa. 

The only thing is you keep track of your money transfer. If you gain a profit with your investment, first the company has to tax it, and then you have to do it in your home country under the tax law.

[PoorSucker]

4 minutes ago, chickenrunCM said:

as a shareholder you can sign company documents, you dont need to have a bussines visa for being an shareholder. 

If you not have a work permit you can´t be director in the company, you will need another one. But have shares in a company you can do with a 30 days stamp or a tourist visa. 

The only thing is you keep track of your money transfer. If you gain a profit with your investment, first the company has to tax it, and then you have to do it in your home country under the tax law.

Sorry, you can sign anything as a private person. 

But as soon as you sign something as a representative of the company, you are working and need a WP. 

[chickenrunCM]

3 minutes ago, PoorSucker said:

Sorry, you can sign anything as a private person. 

But as soon as you sign something as a representative of the company, you are working and need a WP. 

so how many bussines you built in Thailand? 

So the CEO´s of Toyota, DHL, Hotel Companys, Airline companys aso when sign a contract in Thailand are breaing the law because 100% they not have a workermit. 

You sign hundrets of papers, when yu are setting up a company in Thailand or when you invest in one. You do not need any work permit for this, You need a work permit if you run a company as the director or if you have a position inside the company but not for being a shareholder. Hundreds of thausend of people invest in thailand every year in small businesses and in familys. And this is everything legal, all the men who give money to their wifes or gf to built a shop would working illegal if follow your logic.

[Mattd]

It is a fact that Thailand have recently tightened up on Foreign directors that do not hold work permits and sign company documents.

Source: http://www.balglobal.com/bal-news/stricter-work-permit-requirements-imposed-on-companies-with-foreign-directors/

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, chickenrunCM said:

1 hour ago, PoorSucker said:

Sorry, you can sign anything as a private person. 

But as soon as you sign something as a representative of the company, you are working and need a WP. 

so how many bussines you built in Thailand? 

So the CEO´s of Toyota, DHL, Hotel Companys, Airline companys aso when sign a contract in Thailand are breaing the law because 100% they not have a workermit. 

You sign hundrets of papers, when yu are setting up a company in Thailand or when you invest in one. You do not need any work permit for this, You need a work permit if you run a company as the director or if you have a position inside the company but not for being a shareholder. Hundreds of thausend of people invest in thailand every year in small businesses and in familys. And this is everything legal, all the men who give money to their wifes or gf to built a shop would working illegal if follow your logic.

The Alien Employment Act in Thailand, as literally worded, is very restrictive about what you are allowed to do without a work permit.

 

There have always been some activities that, while not strictly legal, are tolerated. Some of these have actually been made public (such as you being allowed to have business meetings, attend trade shows, and even negotiate purchases at trade shows while on tourist visas). In other cases (notably digital nomads) we can conclude that there is no enforcement based on the ease with which immigration could rapidly round up thousands in co-working spaces around the country should the policy not be to leave them alone.

 

Outside of activities known to be tolerated, there is always a risk in being in technical non compliance with the law.

[Prince77]

Well, original post from OP was about "staying legally in Thailand" and intending to invest in a company as a shareholder.

 

In my opinion, the Investment is not relevant to the visa which is required to stay legally. E.g. he could buy some stocks and become a shareholder of some companies in Thailand but will not get a visa for that activity.

 

As some of you already pointed out, there may be a chance to get a Non IMM B with multiple entry if OP can show a probable cause (in his home country) that he has to travel to Thailand frequently and always need to stay some time there. Definately, however, not from a Honary Consulate but from a Thai consulate or embassy.

 

I guess if he frequently stay longer than a "normal" business trip, this might result in some queries after a while - latest when he Need a new visa.

 

About signing any documents for a company where he is a shareholder, in my opinon this is only possible in their internal relationship and not towards third parties. I assume that if he sign any documents with effect to third parties he needs a work permit.... and a work permit has pre-conditions like paid-up capital, Thai staff ... and tax - and social security payments.

 

Finally, if I invest, besides on the stock exchange, I personally want to have a say and influence, that means at least 26% and a director position (WP) and authority to sign documents ( and cheques).

 

Just my 2 cents.