61 people killed EVERY DAY: More damning stats reveal the carnage on Thailand’s roads

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, farcanell said:

Lol.... m’bike lanes. Another stupid idea which is probably a throw back from the buffalo carts days

 

Just yesterday day I was passed by three cars that had moved into the “m’bike lane”.... it was great.... three cars on a two lane road, with m’bikes swarming around like angry wasps.... but that calmed down because just a little further on, the lane was being used as a parking area..... admittedly, those three cars did manage to force themselves back into “car” lanes, so they achieved their goal of getting wherever they were going, a few seconds faster

 

where I come from, that “m’bike lane” is called a (hard) shoulder or emergency lane and is not for general traffic use... and two lanes means two streams of traffic ( not five!)

 

I know... TIT..... but as this is about road safety (or lack thereof) its relevant, and a way of reducing road deaths.... and if a vehicle, any vehicle, cannot acheive the speed indicated for a roads use, it should not be on that road.

 

thailand has got it wrong when it comes to road use.

thailand has got it wrong when it comes to road use.

A somewhat arrogant attitude, methinks. Your opinion is of zero interest to them.

 

where I come from

Do tell. If it's so much better there .......................................

 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Russell17au said:

Yes, that is right, that hard shoulder/emergency lane/ breakdown lane is not for general traffic and that includes motorbikes.

So with your logic anyone who cannot drive to the speed limit should not be on the road. There lies a very big problem because the posted speed limits are the maximum speed for that section of road and you want to force elderly drivers who do not drive as fast as you off the road plus not trucks or buses allowed because their speed limit is lower than the post speed on many roads. Even in Australia there is a different speed limit for heavy vehicles on the same roads as cars. It would be more dangerous to force other drivers to drive at the maximum speed of the road. It is your responsibility to drive/ride safely

It is your responsibility to drive/ride safely

 

Yet we have 25 pages of posters explaining why Thais do not drive responsibly.

Something of a conundrum perhaps.

[farcanell]

32 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In THOSE countries how many two wheelers on 100 kph roads are low powered scooters with small wheels? Sod all I'd say.

There's no point saying scooters should drive in the car lanes if they can't go as fast and there are more scooters than cars.

Exactly right... sod all... lol

because they are a danger!

ride your wee underpowered scooter around the burbs, in 50k zones... but stay off 100k roads... if it can’t keep up, it’s a hazard that needs removing.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

27 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

In Oz from my experience I would say the majority of deaths would occur in the country regions the same as here. simply because people do not know what their driving limitations are as far as fatigue  which would be the biggest killer in Oz. The majority of accidents mainly occur around holiday time and long weekends with people traveling away

Which indicates to me that city drivers don't know how to drive in rural areas and think it's the same as in the city. Certainly true, IMO, in NZ. 

I used to regularly drive 7 hour journeys in NZ back in the 70s and people could mainly drive properly, but in the past 8 years they have become very bad rural road drivers.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Exactly right... sod all... lol

because they are a danger!

ride your wee underpowered scooter around the burbs, in 50k zones... but stay off 100k roads... if it can’t keep up, it’s a hazard that needs removing.

 

Soooooo you want to put the great majority of Thailands rural population off the roads. That's going to work for sure.

Do you actually know that most people in Thailand live in rural areas and use low powered motorbikes/ scooters, unlike where you come from where they probably live in cities and use cars?

[farcanell]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

thailand has got it wrong when it comes to road use.

A somewhat arrogant attitude, methinks. Your opinion is of zero interest to them.

 

where I come from

Do tell. If it's so much better there .......................................

 

Are you serious?

arrogant? Lmao

to make that assertion, you must believe that they (thailand) have got it right, or partially so.... yet the reality is that these are the worlds worst roads.... ergo... they have got it wrong, and it just doesn’t get any simpler than that.

 

your opinion, just like mine, is of no interest to them, but like me, you also espouse your opinion... and... I doubt “they” read these pages anyway.... so that was an irrelevant comment.

 

and yes... where I come from it is a s*** load better, when it comes to road safety, much like most other countries who aren’t living with the reputation of second worst roads in the world.... silly question

 

That silly questions leads me to assume that you want to jump in with the BS about going back home,.. but please remember that road safety is but one thing about Thailand... there are other better and more compelling things on offer here

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Which indicates to me that city drivers don't know how to drive in rural areas and think it's the same as in the city. Certainly true, IMO, in NZ. 

I used to regularly drive 7 hour journeys in NZ back in the 70s and people could mainly drive properly, but in the past 8 years they have become very bad rural road drivers.

I don't think it is so much that but your city roads have a lot more traffic with slower speed limits, you do still have many fatal accidents in the cities but the majority would be the country roads with the higher speed limits. My regular driving was 13 hours a day with 12 hours driving a semi trailer, interstate coach, extended tour coach and 70 tonne B-Doubles so on the roads I saw a lot of fatal accidents not only with cars but with trucks as well. Where I live was between Sydney and Newcastle and I was a foundation member of the Central Coast Volunteer Rescue Squad which covered a large area of highway north of Sydney. Australia tried to educate the people about road safety through the news and TV adds but the people did not take any notice so the government increased the fines for traffic offenses and it was then that the people took notice because they were being hit in the wallet. Many on here complain about the fines but they need to remember that to pay a fine it is a voluntary thing because if you do not break the law then you do not get a fine. It is quite simple you break the law you pay. Maybe that is what is needed here to try to reduce the road toll. it has worked in Australia, but you must have a reliable police force that will do their job properly

[farcanell]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Soooooo you want to put the great majority of Thailands rural population off the roads. That's going to work for sure.

Do you actually know that most people in Thailand live in rural areas and use low powered motorbikes/ scooters, unlike where you come from where they probably live in cities and use cars?

Sooo... you want to keep unsafe vehicles and operators on the road.

 

an alternative, of course, if you are concerned about the great majority, is to lower the speed limit.

 

im not stipulating how fast vehicles should travel, just that they should be able to match the speed of the surrounding traffic

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Sooo... you want to keep unsafe vehicles and operators on the road.

 

an alternative, of course, if you are concerned about the great majority, is to lower the speed limit.

 

im not stipulating how fast vehicles should travel, just that they should be able to match the speed of the surrounding traffic

Even in Australia you have a large speed difference between drivers but to try and force slow drivers to drive fast just to suit you is insane because it would cause more accidents on the road maybe you should be forced to drive slower to fit in with the slower drivers and don't be impatient

[farcanell]

16 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Even in Australia you have a large speed difference between drivers but to try and force slow drivers to drive fast just to suit you is insane because it would cause more accidents on the road maybe you should be forced to drive slower to fit in with the slower drivers and don't be impatient

What makes you think I’m impatient? You actually quoted my post suggesting lowering the speed limit.

 

Anyway.... i do drive slower to fit in with slower drivers, because I refuse to take the risks involved in zipping in and out of traffic.... and I rarely have anywhere I urgently need to be, so I care not about the length of the journey. (Except when the AC broke down... that wasn’t fun)

 

safe traffic flow is consistent traffic flow, and the holy grail of road planners.... 

 

and... the difference between fastest and slowest vehicles on the road, in Oz, is no where near what it is here,

 

but... I’m a bad boy anyway... When out on my bike, as in Oz, I drive it like I drive my car.... in the marked lane I need to be in, vs on the shoulder, on the footpath, between other cars, speeding thru car parks to get ahead etc etc

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, farcanell said:

What makes you think I’m impatient? You actually quoted my post suggesting lowering the speed limit.

 

Anyway.... i do drive slower to fit in with slower drivers, because I refuse to take the risks involved in zipping in and out of traffic.... and I rarely have anywhere I urgently need to be, so I care not about the length of the journey. (Except when the AC broke down... that wasn’t fun)

 

safe traffic flow is consistent traffic flow, and the holy grail of road planners.... 

 

and... the difference between fastest and slowest vehicles on the road, in Oz, is no where near what it is here,

 

but... I’m a bad boy anyway... When out on my bike, as in Oz, I drive it like I drive my car.... in the marked lane I need to be in, vs on the shoulder, on the footpath, between other cars, speeding thru car parks to get ahead etc etc

Then you would understand what Australia did to get the people attention. Hit them where it hurts, their wallet. Then you can do something about education and training. Maybe bring in a system like Australia Learners permit with 120 hours before you get your license then on P Plates for a period of time before you get your full license. But the learners permit and the P-Plates carry a restriction of speed. Something on that nature, but to start with they need to get the peoples attention and somehow I do not think that I will see that in my lifetime

[brling]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

thailand has got it wrong when it comes to road use.

A somewhat arrogant attitude, methinks. Your opinion is of zero interest to them.

 

 

So do you think Thailand has got it right ie "the worlds worst for traffic deaths" ?   It is a fact. Why is it arrogant ? Please wise up, and try to thicken your skin, and finally this is NOT a Thai bashing thread.

[Airbagwill]

It seems people are still making erroneous pronouncements on RS in Thailand.

 

Apparently the highest risk of death in Thailand is Chonburi and Rayong's. Both highly industrialised changwats.

As for driving hours it would appear that done people drive well over the limit in the safest countries in the world.

 

Oz and US are not up there with the safest...although Oz is improving.

 

 

The main EU rules on driving hours are that you must not drivemore than: 9 hours in a day - this can be extended to 10 hourstwice a week. 56 hours in a week. 90 hours in any 2 consecutive weeks. Wiki

 

Of course Thailand has no effective way to check on driver fatigue

[tingtongtourist]

11 hours ago, Russell17au said:

I don't think it is so much that but your city roads have a lot more traffic with slower speed limits, you do still have many fatal accidents in the cities but the majority would be the country roads with the higher speed limits. My regular driving was 13 hours a day with 12 hours driving a semi trailer, interstate coach, extended tour coach and 70 tonne B-Doubles so on the roads I saw a lot of fatal accidents not only with cars but with trucks as well. Where I live was between Sydney and Newcastle and I was a foundation member of the Central Coast Volunteer Rescue Squad which covered a large area of highway north of Sydney. Australia tried to educate the people about road safety through the news and TV adds but the people did not take any notice so the government increased the fines for traffic offenses and it was then that the people took notice because they were being hit in the wallet. Many on here complain about the fines but they need to remember that to pay a fine it is a voluntary thing because if you do not break the law then you do not get a fine. It is quite simple you break the law you pay. Maybe that is what is needed here to try to reduce the road toll. it has worked in Australia, but you must have a reliable police force that will do their job properly

I have heard what these great fines of yours do to people in Australia.

Many suicides in rural areas from youth who lose the licencs for three years for a one night mistake.

And no wonder society rebels and hate police. Its just nasty business.

 

At least Thais dont bleed till dry even them that are at the bottom of society.

 

 

[Artisi]

11 hours ago, Russell17au said:

I don't think it is so much that but your city roads have a lot more traffic with slower speed limits, you do still have many fatal accidents in the cities but the majority would be the country roads with the higher speed limits. My regular driving was 13 hours a day with 12 hours driving a semi trailer, interstate coach, extended tour coach and 70 tonne B-Doubles so on the roads I saw a lot of fatal accidents not only with cars but with trucks as well. Where I live was between Sydney and Newcastle and I was a foundation member of the Central Coast Volunteer Rescue Squad which covered a large area of highway north of Sydney. Australia tried to educate the people about road safety through the news and TV adds but the people did not take any notice so the government increased the fines for traffic offenses and it was then that the people took notice because they were being hit in the wallet. Many on here complain about the fines but they need to remember that to pay a fine it is a voluntary thing because if you do not break the law then you do not get a fine. It is quite simple you break the law you pay. Maybe that is what is needed here to try to reduce the road toll. it has worked in Australia, but you must have a reliable police force that will do their job properly

Fully agree, unfortunately in LOS how would you ensure / enforce the collection of fines. Seems a vast number already pay scant regard to the law/rules and would just disregard any fine arriving in the post, assuming they have a licence and valid address to send it to anyway. If on  the spot fines, many people couldn't afford a hefty fine anway - so what happens then, impound their vehicle and cripple their lively hood, put them in goal with the same result. 

And anyway, take their wheels, cancel their licence (if they had one), threaten etc. the majority would be back on the road next day. 

That's the solution - - - don't really know, it's catch 22 what ever way it's  handled. Better education and enforcement by a pro-active police force and time as it can't and won't happen overnight. 

[lvr181]

13 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I would still have ended up in hospital as I was stationary and he wasn't looking. No amount of rules would have changed that.

 

A partner killed? Wouldn't change my mind, because I know that everytime I or anyone goes on the road it's always a gamble, anywhere. People will always lose against tons of steel at speed. No amount of rules or enforcement has stopped road deaths in any country in the world. It's just less chance in some of dying, but never no chance.

To read some of the posts on here it's as though no one ever dies in their country on the roads!

I despise road policing in my country because it's focused on fining people to make money for the government and not to stop dangerous driving which is widespread, but I never see a cop on the road in rural areas where the dangerous driving takes place.

Mine was a rhetorical question. But as you have not read it that way, may I suggest that enforcement of workable road rules can bring about a change of driving habits.

 

And I have never intimated that there has been a stoppage of road deaths in any country but road rules that are enforced and  generally obeyed can reduce road trauma. There is no society with a perfect road trauma solution but many do a damned sight better than the miserable efforts (or no effort) shown in this Kingdom!

[Keesters]

17 hours ago, Russell17au said:

Yes, that is right, that hard shoulder/emergency lane/ breakdown lane is not for general traffic and that includes motorbikes.

So with your logic anyone who cannot drive to the speed limit should not be on the road. There lies a very big problem because the posted speed limits are the maximum speed for that section of road and you want to force elderly drivers who do not drive as fast as you off the road plus not trucks or buses allowed because their speed limit is lower than the post speed on many roads. Even in Australia there is a different speed limit for heavy vehicles on the same roads as cars. It would be more dangerous to force other drivers to drive at the maximum speed of the road. It is your responsibility to drive/ride safely

 

The so called motorbike lane which is really a hard shoulder/emergency lane/ breakdown lane is not a safe place to ride a motorbike except at very slow speeds. Many times the edges are broken away leaving holes that should a motorbike fall into them will cause a tumble. There is also all the litter, glass bottles, cans, etc thrown there by inconsiderate occupants of >=4 wheel vehicles.

[Airbagwill]

On 27/11/2017 at 8:25 AM, Russell17au said:

It is a total waste of time carrying on about the statistics, they will not change the situation that too many people die because of road accidents. There is only one way to reduce the carnage on the roads and that is to change the mindset of the people. How do you achieve that? There are ways. I don't care if I upset anyone on here that cannot face up to the reality that Thailand needs to have a proper working police force and more police on the roads, the fines need to be high for different offenses and they need to be enforced. If you know that you are going to be caught and your pocket is going to be hit and hit hard then you might change your mindset and if you see the police being active and serious about this then you might abide by the law. The road traffic laws are there for a reason and they need to be enforced. Being hit in the pocket is the one sure way to change peoples mindset and if you see a policeman every few kilometres then you will make sure you are doing the right thing, if you don't do the right thing then you are an idiot. The money that comes in from the fines could go towards improving the condition of the roads to make them safer. Remember this, the fine system in any country is a voluntary system, you do not have to contribute to it if you do not want to, the simple answer is do the right thing and you will not get fine.

Unfortunately if you don't have an accurate  picture of what's happening  and just rely on your own anecdotal experienced  it is impossible to formulate an effective approach.

 

[ragpicker]

19 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Another one that refuses to recognise reality. In some places they even have signs designating them as m'bike lanes.

I suppose you would rather that scooters that travel at 40 to 60 kph have to drive in the car lanes in which case the death rate would be even higher. I hope you never get to be in charge of traffic in LOS.

  Correct, I have seen these ridiculous signs, and I refuse to obey them!!  Reality??  You need to spend more time driving here.  The reality is using the shoulder/emergency lane as a designated lane for any vehicle other than emergency vehicles or stalled vehicles is dangerous/crazy.  Scooters should not even be on the expressways.

  This thread is about carnage on the Thai roads.  Things need to change drastically here to reduce this carnage.

[Artisi]

4 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Unfortunately if you don't have an accurate  picture of what's happening  and just rely on your own anecdotal experienced  it is impossible to formulate an effective approach.

 

An accurate picture of what's happening, seems pretty simple to most people. In easy understood language - over 60 a day killed on the roads resulting from poor policing, complete dis-regard of traffic laws, including: DUI, speeding, running red lights, disregarding stop signs, driving / riding where ever on the road that suits most drivers, overloaded pickups and bikes etc.  

Of course that is very anecdotal and completely useless by your way of thinking as only a formulated theoretical effective approach will overcome the madness. 

You usual glib comment is eagerly awaited. 

[farcanell]

7 hours ago, tingtongtourist said:

I have heard what these great fines of yours do to people in Australia.

Many suicides in rural areas from youth who lose the licencs for three years for a one night mistake.

And no wonder society rebels and hate police. Its just nasty business.

 

At least Thais dont bleed till dry even them that are at the bottom of society.

 

 

Link?.... a quick goggle doesn’t mention Australia... US, England and India, but not Australia. (A three year suspension does not come about from a one night mistake.... perhaps a one night drunken rampage, but definitely not from a “mistake”)

 

society rebelling in Australia over fines? Link?

sure, everybody gripes about it, some contest it in court... but rebellion?

 

hate police? Not really my experience, other than when talking to people who should be locked up anyway, which doesn’t count

 

bleed dry? Fines can be paid piecemeal... mind you, your license will probably be suspended.... but.... the point is that the penalty should hurt, to deter reoffending.... otherwise why bother policing (when a wai will do) ?

 

the result.... 5 deaths per 100,000.... Sweden as world best is 3... Uk is 3.7... US is 11.4. 

 

[farcanell]

Mrs farc just did a two k circuit of the road islands on visit road (rawai) to get a pack of cigs..... two motorbikes down and one smashed side-cart... all in front of one or another of the many 7/11s

 

a ten minute snapshot...

 

[Airbagwill]

50 minutes ago, Artisi said:

An accurate picture of what's happening, seems pretty simple to most people. In easy understood language - over 60 a day killed on the roads resulting from poor policing, complete dis-regard of traffic laws, including: DUI, speeding, running red lights, disregarding stop signs, driving / riding where ever on the road that suits most drivers, overloaded pickups and bikes etc.  

Of course that is very anecdotal and completely useless by your way of thinking as only a formulated theoretical effective approach will overcome the madness. 

You usual glib comment is eagerly awaited. 

"An accurate picture of what's happening, seems pretty simple to most people." - deceptively so

[farcanell]

2 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

"An accurate picture of what's happening, seems pretty simple to most people." - deceptively so

Victim in waiting

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, tingtongtourist said:

I have heard what these great fines of yours do to people in Australia.

Many suicides in rural areas from youth who lose the licencs for three years for a one night mistake.

And no wonder society rebels and hate police. Its just nasty business.

 

At least Thais dont bleed till dry even them that are at the bottom of society.

 

 

Gold star for that. I hate the cops for fining me a huge amount of money that I couldn't afford just for driving a few km over the limit on a perfect early Sunday morning when I was the only car on the road with perfect visibility. Still rankles 10 years later.

I'm the sort of person they should be able to depend on in an emergency, but guess what............................................ They lost any support from me for being all about revenue gathering and not safety.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, Keesters said:

 

The so called motorbike lane which is really a hard shoulder/emergency lane/ breakdown lane is not a safe place to ride a motorbike except at very slow speeds. Many times the edges are broken away leaving holes that should a motorbike fall into them will cause a tumble. There is also all the litter, glass bottles, cans, etc thrown there by inconsiderate occupants of >=4 wheel vehicles.

The so called motorbike lane which is really a hard shoulder/emergency lane/ breakdown lane

Give it a break. Photo from google images. As taken in THAILAND.

 

Do you actually ever ride on the m'bike lanes? I doubt it because that is just not true on any of the roads I ride a m'bike on. I ride at max 60 kph because of small wheels on a scooter.

In the countryside there often isn't a m'bike lane or hard shoulder though.

Worst thing on m'bike lanes is sand on the corners and one should always drive to the road condition anyway.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, ragpicker said:

  Correct, I have seen these ridiculous signs, and I refuse to obey them!!  Reality??  You need to spend more time driving here.  The reality is using the shoulder/emergency lane as a designated lane for any vehicle other than emergency vehicles or stalled vehicles is dangerous/crazy.  Scooters should not even be on the expressways.

  This thread is about carnage on the Thai roads.  Things need to change drastically here to reduce this carnage.

If you think I haven't driven thousands of km on Thai roads I have a bridge to sell to you- going cheap.

If you don't know the reality of m'bike riding in LOS I suggest it is you need to spend more time driving on Thai roads outside a city.

 

Sooooo, you choose which laws to obey in LOS 55555555.

Isn't that what you are complaining about with the Thais breaking the laws 

 

Scooters should not even be on the expressways.

Have you even been in LOS? You seem to have little idea as to the reality here.

 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, farcanell said:

Are you serious?

arrogant? Lmao

to make that assertion, you must believe that they (thailand) have got it right, or partially so.... yet the reality is that these are the worlds worst roads.... ergo... they have got it wrong, and it just doesn’t get any simpler than that.

 

your opinion, just like mine, is of no interest to them, but like me, you also espouse your opinion... and... I doubt “they” read these pages anyway.... so that was an irrelevant comment.

 

and yes... where I come from it is a s*** load better, when it comes to road safety, much like most other countries who aren’t living with the reputation of second worst roads in the world.... silly question

 

That silly questions leads me to assume that you want to jump in with the BS about going back home,.. but please remember that road safety is but one thing about Thailand... there are other better and more compelling things on offer here

you must believe that they (thailand) have got it right, or partially so....

Not at all as regards the drivers, but where they are right is thinking it is a Thai problem to fix or not fix as THEY choose to do, and in a way that reflects THAI values, not what farangs or I think should be done.

I choose to live in Thailand and that includes living with THEIR society's norms, not what I think they should be. The day I can't accept that I will be on an outbound plane.

[David Walden]

7 hours ago, Keesters said:

 

The so called motorbike lane which is really a hard shoulder/emergency lane/ breakdown lane is not a safe place to ride a motorbike except at very slow speeds. Many times the edges are broken away leaving holes that should a motorbike fall into them will cause a tumble. There is also all the litter, glass bottles, cans, etc thrown there by inconsiderate occupants of >=4 wheel vehicles.

You forgot to mention all the idiots that are going the wrong way on the wrong side of a hi-way with no lights at night.  That's the ones if you see them you pass them on the right side.  TIT.  Everybody should know that???

[David Walden]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

you must believe that they (thailand) have got it right, or partially so....

Not at all as regards the drivers, but where they are right is thinking it is a Thai problem to fix or not fix as THEY choose to do, and in a way that reflects THAI values, not what farangs or I think should be done.

I choose to live in Thailand and that includes living with THEIR society's norms, not what I think they should be. The day I can't accept that I will be on an outbound plane.

Don't like it but I think you are write...TIT.