61 people killed EVERY DAY: More damning stats reveal the carnage on Thailand’s roads

[bluesofa]

3 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Unfortunately I don't think it is only the government that don't care about peoples life. What person in the right mindset would get on a motor scooter with 4 children and not put helmets on the children. There was an accident that I came across where a woman with 4 children on the bike fell asleep and crashed, her 9 year old daughter was nursing the 11 month old baby and the babies head hit the road and was killed instantly. I wont say what I think about that accident

I agree with you on the lack of personal responsibility for atrocities like these.

 

As someone just said what is needed is education, training & enforcement. To my mind I see it as the first item on the list in this particular case.

I see it as the government wanting to keep the population uneducated, to further their own ends.

[Russell17au]

9 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

I agree with you on the lack of personal responsibility for atrocities like these.

 

As someone just said what is needed is education, training & enforcement. To my mind I see it as the first item on the list in this particular case.

I see it as the government wanting to keep the population uneducated, to further their own ends.

Australia had a mindset problem many years ago and they tried shock television and other ways to try to educate the people but it did not work. What did work though was the enforcement side people soon changed their mindset when it was costing them money, then the people started to accept the changes and the education and training were accepted a lot easier and now this years figures for road fatalities has dropped by 3.8% to around 1000 for the year and the police are still not happy with that figure, they want it lower

[Happyman58]

3 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

These stats are pretty much worthless, but you are reading them wrong as well.

61 deaths per day relates to the figure of 22000 deaths not the " found dead" at the scene figure, which nobody uses anyway.

The fact is that the DDD campaigners are using half baked stats in a way that is both clumsy and misleading.

The article even attempts to portray a drop in minibus deaths as if it's an increase.

The fact is that buses, minibuses are statistically far safer than motorbikes and cars.

There are no valid annual stats for injured as they are not categorised by international standards.

Anyway whatever numbers it is way to many anyway I stand in front of wifes shop in ubon and count the number of ambulances racing to scenes There are lots Funny i dont see to many police cars around Have they got any here?

[Happyman58]

4 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Australia had a mindset problem many years ago and they tried shock television and other ways to try to educate the people but it did not work. What did work though was the enforcement side people soon changed their mindset when it was costing them money, then the people started to accept the changes and the education and training were accepted a lot easier and now this years figures for road fatalities has dropped by 3.8% to around 1000 for the year and the police are still not happy with that figure, they want it lower

Russel remember years  ago when they first started cracking down on drink driving  Fines were small  and people kept on doing it Then wham they starting creating bigger fines and now they are huge fines Some around 3000 dollars and jail time Loss of licence? What did it do? It really scared people  It scared this little black duck I went from hotel drinker to home drinker  

[Russell17au]

2 minutes ago, Happyman58 said:

Russel remember years  ago when they first started cracking down on drink driving  Fines were small  and people kept on doing it Then wham they starting creating bigger fines and now they are huge fines Some around 3000 dollars and jail time Loss of licence? What did it do? It really scared people  It scared this little black duck I went from hotel drinker to home drinker  

That changed your mindset and that is what is needed here. It needs to be the same principle here. It is a proven system that works. Some people quick jump up and down and say it is only a revenue maker, but I say to them that it is up to you, you do not have to contribute to it, just abide by the law and it cost you nothing. The system has lowered the road toll and they cannot argue against that.

[Peterw42]

27 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Australia had a mindset problem many years ago and they tried shock television and other ways to try to educate the people but it did not work. What did work though was the enforcement side people soon changed their mindset when it was costing them money, then the people started to accept the changes and the education and training were accepted a lot easier and now this years figures for road fatalities has dropped by 3.8% to around 1000 for the year and the police are still not happy with that figure, they want it lower

Yes, the almighty dollar is always a great incentive. I recall the advertisements, in Australia, a few years ago were people held up and wiggled little finger in response to someone driving badly, insinuating that the guy must have a small penis to drive like that etc. That was a really successful campaign, I actually saw people in coffee shops do it when an idiot did a burn out etc.

Its a fine line between fines for road safety and revenue collection, yes throw the book at someone speeding past a school at 3pm but 10ks over the limit on a purpose built express-way, bright sunny day, driving safely, is just revenue collection.

[Confuscious]

It's all the fault of these pesky foreigners who don't know how to drive in Thailand.
The government reduced the death toll already significantly by the new law in which foreigners are not allowed to carry guns anymore.
 

[jojothai]

15 hours ago, hobz said:

Exactly.

That not true from the who figures. and Thailand isn't number 1 either. See below Posted a day ago

 

61 - That's based on last years figures. (22356/365)

But the headline is pointing out a big increase in 2017 , with 2500 more its going up to 70 this year.

 

Note that the numbers seem to have big jumps in 2016 and 2017.

Rather than big increases, is it possible that the last couple of years the reporting has simply been improved and figures have become more accurate?

Is it because they are now adding into the total those who die after on the way to or at hospital?

 

With perhaps a 2017 total of 24856, this figure is nearer to the WHO estimated total in 2015. (24237)

If the premise above is true, then maybe we could see the figures stabilise next year.

 

Note: 24856 would give about 36 deaths per 100,000 population. Now similar to what WHO had in 2015.

In the WHO report it looks like only Libya was more, at 73.4 per 100,000.

From that, it looks like Thailand still has a long way to go to get to number 1 

[Happyman58]

32 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

That changed your mindset and that is what is needed here. It needs to be the same principle here. It is a proven system that works. Some people quick jump up and down and say it is only a revenue maker, but I say to them that it is up to you, you do not have to contribute to it, just abide by the law and it cost you nothing. The system has lowered the road toll and they cannot argue against that.

But Russell They do have laws here Its just the lazy cops wont enforce them The law states you must wear a helmet when you ride a bike How many Thais do u see not wearing a helmet? They have no respect for the law because they know the cops are so corrupt and wont enforce them One way they could do it is to show on Tv how not wearing a helmet can hurt u so bad and kill you Show graffic scenes of a motorcycle accident or increase the fines for not wearing helmet to 5000 baht which is about 200 bucks Australian Then they will start thinking  Better put one on

[Sid Celery]

59 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Australia had a mindset problem many years ago and they tried shock television and other ways to try to educate the people but it did not work. What did work though was the enforcement side people soon changed their mindset when it was costing them money, then the people started to accept the changes and the education and training were accepted a lot easier and now this years figures for road fatalities has dropped by 3.8% to around 1000 for the year and the police are still not happy with that figure, they want it lower

 

I remember that too. Enforcement is the only way, if laws are not enforced (and in Thailand the police do not enforce laws), then laws will be ignored.

 

It's back to front I know but it is the Thai way. Disregarding laws for the first time involves a judgement. Will I get caught? The second time, the answer is easier, until finally, the getting caught thought just doesn't arise. At that point you might as well not have a police force.

[Keesters]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

You can take it literally if you choose, or you can use your imagination. Restrict cars to residents, deliveries, taxi's etc. Keep cars on major arterial/ through roads and avoid having small soi's as major thoroughfares.

Lots of cities in the west have something similar, car restrictions in centre of the city etc.

There are areas were I live were its no point driving your car there, small sois were two cars cant pass each other, literally no parking, by defaut they are baht bus and bike areas.

There are currently car only roads, expressways and the centre lanes of major arterial roads, why not have the same for bikes, the less places they are sharing a road the less places they run into each other.

Encourage bike and Taxi use for small local trips within designated areas and car use for travelling between local areas.

Literally?!?...it is what you wrote. Keep bike and cars/pickups separated. Now you're saying mix them but only under certain circumstances.

 

If you separate bikes from cars and larger vehicles that will of course leave those vehicles to crash into each other.....plenty of that already happens. And bike to crash into bikes...not a lot of that I think.

 

Ridding this country of the ME FIRST syndrome and replacing it with CONSIDER OTHERS is a far more effective, but I feel impossible to reach, solution.

 

 

[Russell17au]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes, the almighty dollar is always a great incentive. I recall the advertisements, in Australia, a few years ago were people held up and wiggled little finger in response to someone driving badly, insinuating that the guy must have a small penis to drive like that etc. That was a really successful campaign, I actually saw people in coffee shops do it when an idiot did a burn out etc.

Its a fine line between fines for road safety and revenue collection, yes throw the book at someone speeding past a school at 3pm but 10ks over the limit on a purpose built express-way, bright sunny day, driving safely, is just revenue collection.

Sorry, but I do not agree with you about driving 10 kph over the speed limit, maybe 5 but not 10. I do have a reason for this thinking because of an experience that I had in Australia in 1978 and even today I cannot forget it

[Airbagwill]

3 hours ago, Artisi said:

Do you actually live in Thailand?

After living her for nearly 20 years, I could count on 1 hand the number of pickups with fibreglass covers I have seen used with passengers. 

Then you'd better check out Carryboy  Aerogklas etc. Quite frankly you are being remarkably unobservant. I suspect you don't actually know what you are looking at when you see a pickup with an enclosed back. Maybe you thought they were SUVs. There are literally thousands of them, 

[Airbagwill]

4 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

I would love to know the ratio of deaths per vehicle type based on how many of each vehicle types are on the road.

In the article they are saying there were 107 deaths in minivans out the 23,000 killed. But minivans are what percentage of the vehicles on Thai roads? I am willing to bet the kill ratio of minivans is much higher than cars, pickups, or buses.

Although I don't know where you could expect to get good numbers. This article claims there were only 226 minivans accident in 2016. I think there is possibly that many each month in any given province.

 

The percentage for buses and minibuses is 2%. WHO

The highest DEATHS  are the 80% vulnerable road users.

75% are on 2 or 3 wheeled vehicles.    Pedestrians and other vulnerable class road users are 5%  

 

The problem is people make assumptions based on the hysterical and baseless rantings of the media.

You probably don't know that minibuses are used primarily for transporting people to and from work...relatively short and slow journeys. The longer distances may be more deathly but are relatively less numerous.

The problem here is that Thailand as I said before neither counts the VKT stats nor the 3 categories of injury.

Vehicle types are international.....but countries like UK keep much more detailed vehicle information that can in turn be analysed

[Russell17au]

I might be dreaming but I think there is starting to be a change as there is an increasing number of police officers who are refusing the coffee money offer and actually writing tickets and taking drivers licenses to the police station until the fine is paid. So maybe things may start to change. Oh and these breaches have been committed by Thai's

[Airbagwill]

There are many reasons for changes in the tea money is collected.... Or not ...... The proliferation of dash and helmet cams for a start.

Many people are unaware of how to tell if they are paying tea money these days

[Artisi]

9 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Then you'd better check out Carryboy  Aerogklas etc. Quite frankly you are being remarkably unobservant. I suspect you don't actually know what you are looking at when you see a pickup with an enclosed back. Maybe you thought they were SUVs. There are literally thousands of them, 

Maybe time you stopped treating everyone as being stupid in the belief you are the only one to have all the answers. 

This morning I undertook a quick survey, in about 30 minutes I counted 15 or so pickups with  "Carryboy" tops, most were tradesman's transport filled with ladders, pipes, cables etc, not 1 had anyone riding in the back, whereas on the other hand the many of the open backed pickups were carrying the normal  8/10 people. 

Which by the way is beside the point, as in my post I said I had not observed a large number or people riding in the vehicles with FG canopies.

[Airbagwill]

1 minute ago, Artisi said:

Maybe time you stopped treating everyone as being stupid in the belief you are the only one to have all the answers. 

This morning I undertook a quick survey, in about 30 minutes I counted 15 or so pickups with  "Carryboy" tops, most were tradesman's transport filled with ladders, pipes, cables etc, not 1 had anyone riding in the back, whereas on the other hand the many of the open backed pickups were carrying the normal  8/10 people. 

Which by the way is beside the point, as in my post I said I had not observed a large number or people riding in the vehicles with FG canopies.

I think you'd better learn the difference between anecdote, quibbling and evidence. If you actually have something you disagree with that I have posted rather than ad hom or just gainsay, why not put together a coherent argument against a particular point?

[Russell17au]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

 

You probably don't know that minibuses are used primarily for transporting people to and from work...relatively short and slow journeys. The longer distances may be more deathly but are relatively less numerous.

Your assumption that minibuses are used primarily for transporting people to and from work...relatively short and slow journeys is wrong.

It is easy to see that you do not live in Isaan otherwise you would not make this statement.

Mini buses are used for the local transport of children to school plus you can catch a minibus on average every 10 minutes between Khon Kaen and Udon Thani as a regular bus service. Plus there are many other areas in the north east that the minibus service is the main transport service for the public

[Russell17au]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

There are many reasons for changes in the tea money is collected.... Or not ...... The proliferation of dash and helmet cams for a start.

Many people are unaware of how to tell if they are paying tea money these days

It is easy to tell, if you hand money directly to the officer that is standing alongside you and he does not write an infringement notice and give you a receipt then that is coffee money. No rocket science in that.

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, Russell17au said:

Your assumption that minibuses are used primarily for transporting people to and from work...relatively short and slow journeys is wrong.

It is easy to see that you do not live in Isaan otherwise you would not make this statement.

Mini buses are used for the local transport of children to school plus you can catch a minibus on average every 10 minutes between Khon Kaen and Udon Thani as a regular bus service. Plus there are many other areas in the north east that the minibus service is the main transport service for the public

 I work in industry and am aware of the thousands of people who commute in and out if the industrial Estates 7 days a week...as well as their kids  going  to school.

I also aware of relative population density differences between Issan and Thailand's industrial belts.

If you look at the figures you too will  see that they also have the highest numbers of deaths and the highest rates 

The problem is that people believe what they see is everything when in reality  it is only a partial snapshot.if they bothered to look at the  stats and the analysis, a lot of misconceptions  and myths would be exploded 

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, Russell17au said:

It is easy to tell, if you hand money directly to the officer that is standing alongside you and he does not write an infringement notice and give you a receipt then that is coffee money. No rocket science in that.

How naive ..you seriously believe if they write a chit it isn't tea money?

[Russell17au]

11 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

How naive ..you seriously believe if they write a chit it isn't tea money?

No you are naive, because when they write an infringement notice it is paid at the police station and that money is accountable same as if you get a receipt on the road that is also on official receipt book and that is also accountable

[farcanell]

On 11/26/2017 at 1:34 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

If allowing bikes on “fast” roads, they must be capable of driving at the correct speed, otherwise they are nothing but mobile hazards.

Which is why they build m'bike lanes on the side of expressways here.

Lol.... m’bike lanes. Another stupid idea which is probably a throw back from the buffalo carts days

 

Just yesterday day I was passed by three cars that had moved into the “m’bike lane”.... it was great.... three cars on a two lane road, with m’bikes swarming around like angry wasps.... but that calmed down because just a little further on, the lane was being used as a parking area..... admittedly, those three cars did manage to force themselves back into “car” lanes, so they achieved their goal of getting wherever they were going, a few seconds faster

 

where I come from, that “m’bike lane” is called a (hard) shoulder or emergency lane and is not for general traffic use... and two lanes means two streams of traffic ( not five!)

 

I know... TIT..... but as this is about road safety (or lack thereof) its relevant, and a way of reducing road deaths.... and if a vehicle, any vehicle, cannot acheive the speed indicated for a roads use, it should not be on that road.

 

thailand has got it wrong when it comes to road use.

[Russell17au]

17 minutes ago, farcanell said:

where I come from, that “m’bike lane” is called a (hard) shoulder or emergency lane and is not for general traffic use... and two lanes means two streams of traffic ( not five!)

 

I know... TIT..... but as this is about road safety (or lack thereof) its relevant, and a way of reducing road deaths.... and if a vehicle, any vehicle, cannot acheive the speed indicated for a roads use, it should not be on that road.

 

 

Yes, that is right, that hard shoulder/emergency lane/ breakdown lane is not for general traffic and that includes motorbikes.

So with your logic anyone who cannot drive to the speed limit should not be on the road. There lies a very big problem because the posted speed limits are the maximum speed for that section of road and you want to force elderly drivers who do not drive as fast as you off the road plus not trucks or buses allowed because their speed limit is lower than the post speed on many roads. Even in Australia there is a different speed limit for heavy vehicles on the same roads as cars. It would be more dangerous to force other drivers to drive at the maximum speed of the road. It is your responsibility to drive/ride safely

[Lingba]

Hey look...as long as they believe that accidents, deaths, etc etc is someones fate or karma..then why would anyone think they will take some kind of progressive action to change things

[eggers]

It seems to confirm the adage "life's cheap!! " ...It's disgusting that no firm action is taken by the Gov't to stop this carnage on Thai Roads... but TiT!! 

 

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

Yes, that is right, that hard shoulder/emergency lane/ breakdown lane is not for general traffic and that includes motorbikes.

So with your logic anyone who cannot drive to the speed limit should not be on the road. There lies a very big problem because the posted speed limits are the maximum speed for that section of road and you want to force elderly drivers who do not drive as fast as you off the road plus not trucks or buses allowed because their speed limit is lower than the post speed on many roads. Even in Australia there is a different speed limit for heavy vehicles on the same roads as cars. It would be more dangerous to force other drivers to drive at the maximum speed of the road. It is your responsibility to drive/ride safely

Yep.... I think.

 

if a vehicle cannot acheive the speed limit (max max here is what? 110kph).... in any area, then there is a high chance that the vehicle is not roadworthy, and therefore, should not be on the road.

 

if a person cannot control a vehicle safely at the speed limit (some areas is 50 or less), or near enough to it, then that person is probably an incompetent driver, and should not be driving anyway (in Australia, elderly drivers have to resit driver tests, don’t they?)

 

mandatory decreased speeds for trucks etc per your comment is irrelevant, because that’s their legal speed, usually posted on the rear of the vehicle in Australia, for safety reasons

 

anyway.... per my origional post here, my issue is with the inconsistency of speeds in a stream of traffic.... 10 to 20 k difference isn’t really an issue, but when you have road users traveling at differences of 100 k or more, in the same traffic stream,..... well.... you end up with the reputation of the worlds most deadly roads.

 

everyone agrees something should be done to stop the carnage on the roads... the above opinion is simply another way to make road use safer

 

 

[Kieran00001]

3 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Yep.... I think.

 

if a vehicle cannot acheive the speed limit (max max here is what? 110kph).... in any area, then there is a high chance that the vehicle is not roadworthy, and therefore, should not be on the road.

 

if a person cannot control a vehicle safely at the speed limit (some areas is 50 or less), or near enough to it, then that person is probably an incompetent driver, and should not be driving anyway (in Australia, elderly drivers have to resit driver tests, don’t they?)

 

mandatory decreased speeds for trucks etc per your comment is irrelevant, because that’s their legal speed, usually posted on the rear of the vehicle in Australia, for safety reasons

 

anyway.... per my origional post here, my issue is with the inconsistency of speeds in a stream of traffic.... 10 to 20 k difference isn’t really an issue, but when you have road users traveling at differences of 100 k or more, in the same traffic stream,..... well.... you end up with the reputation of the worlds most deadly roads.

 

everyone agrees something should be done to stop the carnage on the roads... the above opinion is simply another way to make road use safer

 

 

 

Other countries manage to have different speed vehicles travelling in the same roads, you can ride your bicycle on a British dual carriage way where the majority of traffic is doing over 70mph, and many do, yet we don't have the same problem.

[wavemanwww]

23 hours ago, hobz said:

They have made the driving license harder to get. Now it requires a couple of days before it was all done the same day.

Less and less people believe that road accidents are caused by "fate" or "bad luck" ... 32% now, 50% before.

 

So why do we see this increase in accidents? Is it an actual increase? Or are they just counting / reporting differently now?

 

If there is an increase, is it related to that poor are getting poorer in Thailand? Poverty = more Debt. More debt = More alcoholism = More stress = More drug abuse = More frustration = More anger = More road rage = More speeding = More reckless driving?

 

What are your theories? 
 

i just know 1 + 1 = 2... :-)