61 people killed EVERY DAY: More damning stats reveal the carnage on Thailand’s roads

[farcanell]

2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Other countries manage to have different speed vehicles travelling in the same roads, you can ride your bicycle on a British dual carriage way where the majority of traffic is doing over 70mph, and many do, yet we don't have the same problem.

This may be so.... but do you have road laws that are followed.?

veghicle roadworthy checks?

well maintained roads ?

proper drivers licensing and standards?

a general “give a damn” towards yourself and others?

a sense of responsibility?

laws and punishment?

etc 

etc

etc

 

the general rule is that slower vehicles stay in the left (country dependent) lane.... as in lane... not in an imaginary unmarked position that is self serving.... I’m pretty sure that in Britain, a two lane road means two lanes of traffic, with a fine applied to anyone who chooses to make their own lane up outside of those marked.

 

this provides safety for all road users, which is generally lacking here, and needs addressing. 

 

Unfortunately the road safety issue in thailand is so bad that I believe that only draconian measures will have an impact in forcing people to use the roads safely.  Fines, license suspensions, jail time, vehicle confiscations etc, are tools that can be used.... and until such things are used... same old same ol... rub your amulet and hope for the best

[HHTel]

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

Yes, that is right, that hard shoulder/emergency lane/ breakdown lane is not for general traffic and that includes motorbikes.

So with your logic anyone who cannot drive to the speed limit should not be on the road. There lies a very big problem because the posted speed limits are the maximum speed for that section of road and you want to force elderly drivers who do not drive as fast as you off the road plus not trucks or buses allowed because their speed limit is lower than the post speed on many roads. Even in Australia there is a different speed limit for heavy vehicles on the same roads as cars. It would be more dangerous to force other drivers to drive at the maximum speed of the road. It is your responsibility to drive/ride safely

It's common to have different speed limits for different types of vehicles.  Thailand is no different and I'm sure everyone has seen the signs that give the limits for each type of vehicle.

 

[Kieran00001]

2 minutes ago, farcanell said:

This may be so.... but do you have road laws that are followed.?

veghicle roadworthy checks?

well maintained roads ?

proper drivers licensing and standards?

a general “give a damn” towards yourself and others?

a sense of responsibility?

laws and punishment?

etc 

etc

etc

 

the general rule is that slower vehicles stay in the left (country dependent) lane.... as in lane... not in an imaginary unmarked position that is self serving.... I’m pretty sure that in Britain, a two lane road means two lanes of traffic, with a fine applied to anyone who chooses to make their own lane up outside of those marked.

 

this provides safety for all road users, which is generally lacking here, and needs addressing. 

 

Unfortunately the road safety issue in thailand is so bad that I believe that only draconian measures will have an impact in forcing people to use the roads safely.  Fines, license suspensions, jail time, vehicle confiscations etc, are tools that can be used.... and until such things are used... same old same ol... rub your amulet and hope for the best

 

That was sort of what I was getting at, other countries manage to make it work with various speed vehicles on the same road, the issue is not that there are fast and slow moving vehicles on Thai roads, the issues are various and you have named many of them above.

Not sure why you see fines, suspension, jail time and confiscations as being draconian, I don't see any of those as being excessive when the aim is to reduce road deaths.

[Russell17au]

51 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Yep.... I think.

 

if a vehicle cannot acheive the speed limit (max max here is what? 110kph).... in any area, then there is a high chance that the vehicle is not roadworthy, and therefore, should not be on the road.

 

if a person cannot control a vehicle safely at the speed limit (some areas is 50 or less), or near enough to it, then that person is probably an incompetent driver, and should not be driving anyway (in Australia, elderly drivers have to resit driver tests, don’t they?)

 

mandatory decreased speeds for trucks etc per your comment is irrelevant, because that’s their legal speed, usually posted on the rear of the vehicle in Australia, for safety reasons

 

anyway.... per my origional post here, my issue is with the inconsistency of speeds in a stream of traffic.... 10 to 20 k difference isn’t really an issue, but when you have road users traveling at differences of 100 k or more, in the same traffic stream,..... well.... you end up with the reputation of the worlds most deadly roads.

 

everyone agrees something should be done to stop the carnage on the roads... the above opinion is simply another way to make road use safer

 

 

And you get it in Australia as well, but 1 thing that you do have wrong is the speed limit here. City and Towns 60kph other roads 90kph and motorways/tollways 120kph so if you are doing your 110kph you are over the registered speed limit unless you are on a tollway or motorway. I do not know where you are from but try driving a semi from Melbourne to Geelong on the Geelong Freeway where trucks are not allowed in the right hand lane for any reason and that includes to overtake a slow car that is sitting alongside another slow car in the 2 left hand lanes. You are right something has to be done and the first thing should be to kick the police out onto the roads in cars and on bikes and make them enforce the road laws that Thailand has. That would make a big difference to the road toll

[farcanell]

22 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

That was sort of what I was getting at, other countries manage to make it work with various speed vehicles on the same road, the issue is not that there are fast and slow moving vehicles on Thai roads, the issues are various and you have named many of them above.

Not sure why you see fines, suspension, jail time and confiscations as being draconian, I don't see any of those as being excessive when the aim is to reduce road deaths.

Lol... I used the term draconian to offset posters who might ridicule me for trying to imply western laws / methods need to be introduced and enforced.

 

that said.... your average Thai on the street, would see these measures (common to us) as very harsh.... but harsh is what’s needed.

 

[hobz]

8 hours ago, jojothai said:

That not true from the who figures. and Thailand isn't number 1 either. See below Posted a day ago

 

61 - That's based on last years figures. (22356/365)

But the headline is pointing out a big increase in 2017 , with 2500 more its going up to 70 this year.

 

Note that the numbers seem to have big jumps in 2016 and 2017.

Rather than big increases, is it possible that the last couple of years the reporting has simply been improved and figures have become more accurate?

Is it because they are now adding into the total those who die after on the way to or at hospital?

 

With perhaps a 2017 total of 24856, this figure is nearer to the WHO estimated total in 2015. (24237)

If the premise above is true, then maybe we could see the figures stabilise next year.

 

Note: 24856 would give about 36 deaths per 100,000 population. Now similar to what WHO had in 2015.

In the WHO report it looks like only Libya was more, at 73.4 per 100,000.

From that, it looks like Thailand still has a long way to go to get to number 1 

Ok, I also wonder if it's actually getting worse or just reporting improving. 

The main argument for it getting worse is perhaps that there's more vehicles per capita now.

 

[Redline]

On 11/26/2017 at 8:30 AM, missoura said:

Yikes!  Those tapeworms are taking over

[oldlakey]

8 hours ago, Happyman58 said:

Russel remember years  ago when they first started cracking down on drink driving  Fines were small  and people kept on doing it Then wham they starting creating bigger fines and now they are huge fines Some around 3000 dollars and jail time Loss of licence? What did it do? It really scared people  It scared this little black duck I went from hotel drinker to home drinker  

 You became a successful stat, rather than just a stat

[Redline]

Good going~doing nothing but wishing

[farcanell]

9 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

And you get it in Australia as well, but 1 thing that you do have wrong is the speed limit here. City and Towns 60kph other roads 90kph and motorways/tollways 120kph so if you are doing your 110kph you are over the registered speed limit unless you are on a tollway or motorway. I do not know where you are from but try driving a semi from Melbourne to Geelong on the Geelong Freeway where trucks are not allowed in the right hand lane for any reason and that includes to overtake a slow car that is sitting alongside another slow car in the 2 left hand lanes. You are right something has to be done and the first thing should be to kick the police out onto the roads in cars and on bikes and make them enforce the road laws that Thailand has. That would make a big difference to the road toll

110 was a question.... I don’t know varying limits etc etc.... I just follow the area posted speed. The main drag here is clearly posted as 50, ( all vehicles should be able to do that, right?), yet the traffic runs from 10 to 150k.... and not nessesarily in marked lanes or in the correct direction!

 

entering this flow is a life and death situation, exacerbated by needing to judge 17 (whatever) different speeds, to allow safe entry to the main (obviously much harder at night) ... in the five years I’ve lived in this soi, I’ve personally seen three deaths where the soi enters the main.

 

lol.... I’m from Perth and only have a heavy rigid license, but my brother lives in Melbourne... and to be honest, I’d rather drive my CRV here, than a semi in Melbourne.

 

Anyway.... its depressing that we can see solutions, yet know that these will probably never be implemented in our lifetimes.... and I agree 100% that step one should involve police doing their job.... in need, sack em all and start anew (Lol... i can’t see it being worse than what exists)

[Russell17au]

18 minutes ago, farcanell said:

110 was a question.... I don’t know varying limits etc etc.... I just follow the area posted speed. The main drag here is clearly posted as 50, ( all vehicles should be able to do that, right?), yet the traffic runs from 10 to 150k.... and not nessesarily in marked lanes or in the correct direction!

 

entering this flow is a life and death situation, exacerbated by needing to judge 17 (whatever) different speeds, to allow safe entry to the main (obviously much harder at night) ... in the five years I’ve lived in this soi, I’ve personally seen three deaths where the soi enters the main.

 

lol.... I’m from Perth and only have a heavy rigid license, but my brother lives in Melbourne... and to be honest, I’d rather drive my CRV here, than a semi in Melbourne.

 

Anyway.... its depressing that we can see solutions, yet know that these will probably never be implemented in our lifetimes.... and I agree 100% that step one should involve police doing their job.... in need, sack em all and start anew (Lol... i can’t see it being worse than what exists)

I don't think we will ever see any change here but we could hope. Unless someone gets some brains in the vacuum.... na that will never happen

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, ragpicker said:

   What "m'bike lanes"??  Are you referring to the expressway shoulder or emergency lane?  If so, then yes this lane is used by lunatic motorcycle drivers, and it's two way traffic!!  Cars/pick-ups also travel against traffic on this emergency lane.   One of the first steps to reduce deaths in Thailand would be to stop anyone using this emergency lane, other than police, ambulances, and personal vehicles with problems.

Another one that refuses to recognise reality. In some places they even have signs designating them as m'bike lanes.

I suppose you would rather that scooters that travel at 40 to 60 kph have to drive in the car lanes in which case the death rate would be even higher. I hope you never get to be in charge of traffic in LOS.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, NanLaew said:

It also was abolished in the UK about 3 years ago.

 

Maybe bluesofa hasn't been back home for a while?

What do stickers in the UK and Australia have to do with the death rate in LOS?

[oldlakey]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Another one that refuses to recognise reality. In some places they even have signs designating them as m'bike lanes.

I suppose you would rather that scooters that travel at 40 to 60 kph have to drive in the car lanes in which case the death rate would be even higher. I hope you never get to be in charge of traffic in LOS.

What are you suggesting there is a vacancy

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, biggles45 said:

"One such measure introduced earlier this year was to ban people riding in the cargo area of a pickup truck."

 

Outside Big C Extra in Pattaya yesterday, a pickup with at least 15 workers crammed in the back. It was stopped at the traffic lights right outside the POLICE box, the BIB was inside as his bike was there, but obviously too hot to come out. At the same time six Thais without helmets also at the lights. Rules with no enforcement....a waste of effort.

That was one case where they recognised reality and I doubt it's being enforced anywhere.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, MatteoBassini said:

2 main problems.

 

1. Small motorcycles and big motorcycles are still not properly separated in the law. In many countries, legally, a 1400cc superbike is in every single way different to a 125cc scooter in the eyes of the law. In Thailand, they're the same vehicle, same license required, and thus have to follow the same rules. They cannot let a 100-110cc scooter onto these roads because they're not powerful enough to let the traffic flow, therefore, a 1400cc motorcycle isn't allowed either. Why do you think a motorcycle below 150cc is not allowed on the US freeways?

 

2. Most scooter riders ride TOO SLOW.

Have you even noticed most people can't even go above 60km/h? Why? Is it because the wind hitting their face is too much handle because they don't wear proper fullface helmets? It should be illegal to go slower than 80km/h on these roads, it drives me crazy when I'm on a single lane road and the scooter in front doesn't have the balls to go over 60km/h.

 

This is why they're still illegal to be used on roads like the one in your picture, people don't have the balls to go over 60km/h and their bikes are too slow to go faster than 100 km/h.

 

Until they create the big bike license they've been talking about for 2 years now, it will remain like this.

Most scooter riders ride TOO SLOW.

Have you even noticed most people can't even go above 60km/h? Why?

 

Obviously you don't ride a scooter in LOS. 60kph is fast enough to be able to ride a scooter with little wheels safely on Thai roads with potholes and sand on the corners.

It's not just about you.

No reason why they can't drive on elevated expressways as long as they make the left hand lane only for m'bikes/ scooters.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, lvr181 said:

"...doesn't make me want to make LOS have the same policing I despise back home."

 

Be that as it may BUT there is much room for improvement in the Kingdom, possibly without getting to that stage you so despise. And the advantage could have been you did not need to end up in hospital as a result of a road crash!

 

BTW, if it was a partner or other family member killed would you have the same thought?  Rhetorical question.

I would still have ended up in hospital as I was stationary and he wasn't looking. No amount of rules would have changed that.

 

A partner killed? Wouldn't change my mind, because I know that everytime I or anyone goes on the road it's always a gamble, anywhere. People will always lose against tons of steel at speed. No amount of rules or enforcement has stopped road deaths in any country in the world. It's just less chance in some of dying, but never no chance.

To read some of the posts on here it's as though no one ever dies in their country on the roads!

I despise road policing in my country because it's focused on fining people to make money for the government and not to stop dangerous driving which is widespread, but I never see a cop on the road in rural areas where the dangerous driving takes place.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, Artisi said:

Do you actually live in Thailand?

After living her for nearly 20 years, I could count on 1 hand the number of pickups with fibreglass covers I have seen used with passengers. 

Maybe he thought songtheaw passenger covers were made from fiberglass instead of aluminium.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, bluesofa said:

Surely the only thing a fibreglass cover at the rear of a pickup will do is keep the sun off those in the back?

It's not going to have any safety qualities at all in the case of an accident.

You forgot the rain!

Why would you think safety had any part of it?

[Russell17au]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I would still have ended up in hospital as I was stationary and he wasn't looking. No amount of rules would have changed that.

 

A partner killed? Wouldn't change my mind, because I know that everytime I or anyone goes on the road it's always a gamble, anywhere. People will always lose against tons of steel at speed. No amount of rules or enforcement has stopped road deaths in any country in the world. It's just less chance in some of dying, but never no chance.

To read some of the posts on here it's as though no one ever dies in their country on the roads!

I despise road policing in my country because it's focused on fining people to make money for the government and not to stop dangerous driving which is widespread, but I never see a cop on the road in rural areas where the dangerous driving takes place.

No it may not stop road deaths but it can reduce the road deaths. Australia has just reduced the road toll by 3.8% they now have gotten it toll down to around 1000 so they are doing something that is working and because of it there are a lot more people alive and a lot less pain for those that would have lost a family member or friend on the roads. Anything is worth a try

[mommysboy]

On 26/11/2017 at 6:25 PM, hobz said:

They have made the driving license harder to get. Now it requires a couple of days before it was all done the same day.

Less and less people believe that road accidents are caused by "fate" or "bad luck" ... 32% now, 50% before.

 

So why do we see this increase in accidents? Is it an actual increase? Or are they just counting / reporting differently now?

 

If there is an increase, is it related to that poor are getting poorer in Thailand? Poverty = more Debt. More debt = More alcoholism = More stress = More drug abuse = More frustration = More anger = More road rage = More speeding = More reckless driving?

 

What are your theories? 
 

All those, and possibly more vehicles on the road.

[farcanell]

27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Another one who refuses to recognize REALITY. In some places they even have signs designating them as m'bike lanes.

I suppose you would rather that scooters that travel at 40 to 60 kph have to drive in the car lanes in which case the death rate would be even higher. I hope you never get to be in charge of traffic in LOS.

Reality is carnage!... reality is that these roads are arguably the world most dangerous.... reality is that the system needs to change.

 

in some other countries, with far safer roads, bikes must follow the same rules as cars.... as in, use the same lanes. It works there, perhaps with some clever people in charge, but I suppose this is why those roads are safer..... and perhaps if those administrators were in charge here, the reality of Thailand’s road carnage,might become a thing of the past. 

 

Perhaps ragpicker might be exactly the type of man that is needed to change the reality... and stop the carnage... saving life’s... preventing misery

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, SmartyMarty said:

In New Zealand I worked for the government road safety board for nearly 12 years. The recipe for success is a very simple combination of education, training & enforcement.

I guess they must have forgotten to educate about safe distance between vehicles!

In rural areas almost every single car tailgates at 100 kph. The truckkies need training too as it's NOT COOL to travel so close together that people can't overtake them. IMO NZ drivers mostly don't know how to drive outside cities.

NZ drivers are incredibly selfish too- slow drivers almost NEVER pull over to allow the 20 or 30 cars behind them pass.

Between the cops that fine for 5kph over the limit even if it's safe to do so and the terrible drivers I hate driving on NZ roads now. 

I know the death rate is very low, but I have no idea why that would be given how dangerously they drive in the country. I suppose it's a combination of good roads and new cars ( rarely see any old bangers now ) saving them from themselves.

They are gutless too. I often pull well over to let them pass as I hate tailgaters up my bum, but no matter how much I slow down on a nice straight road with nothing coming to try and let them pass, they won't and I have to actually stop to get the ignorant tailgaters to go on ahead.

I prefer driving on Thai roads to NZ roads any time.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Reality is carnage!... reality is that these roads are arguably the world most dangerous.... reality is that the system needs to change.

 

in some other countries, with far safer roads, bikes must follow the same rules as cars.... as in, use the same lanes. It works there, perhaps with some clever people in charge, but I suppose this is why those roads are safer..... and perhaps if those administrators were in charge here, the reality of Thailand’s road carnage,might become a thing of the past. 

 

Perhaps ragpicker might be exactly the type of man that is needed to change the reality... and stop the carnage... saving life’s... preventing misery

 

 

In THOSE countries how many two wheelers on 100 kph roads are low powered scooters with small wheels? Sod all I'd say.

There's no point saying scooters should drive in the car lanes if they can't go as fast and there are more scooters than cars.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

No it may not stop road deaths but it can reduce the road deaths. Australia has just reduced the road toll by 3.8% they now have gotten it toll down to around 1000 so they are doing something that is working and because of it there are a lot more people alive and a lot less pain for those that would have lost a family member or friend on the roads. Anything is worth a try

To compare Oz with LOS one would have to know where most deaths occur in each country. If it's in the Thai countryside and in Oz cities it would be a completely different situation.

Unfortunately I doubt anyone can say where most Thai deaths occur, but I suspect it's on the open roads in the rural areas.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Exactly. People seem to expect an overnight change, when it's likely to take decades. With any luck self-driving/automated cars will be the norm by then.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

You'd trust a self drive car in LOS? 

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, Russell17au said:

They could start the changes tomorrow if they wanted to. Training: They simply change the requirements for a license to have a drivers learners permit with 120 hours with driving restrictions before they can get a license. Enforcement: The police get of their backside and enforce the laws. Both of these could come into effect tomorrow.

I think you underestimate the number of cops in Thailand, and apparently only traffic cops can enforce road rules- not many of them around.

Perhaps Harry Potter can magic up a few thousand trained and not corrupt traffic cops in a week or so, but in the real world......................

[Russell17au]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To compare Oz with LOS one would have to know where most deaths occur in each country. If it's in the Thai countryside and in Oz cities it would be a completely different situation.

Unfortunately I doubt anyone can say where most Thai deaths occur, but I suspect it's on the open roads in the rural areas.

In Oz from my experience I would say the majority of deaths would occur in the country regions the same as here. simply because people do not know what their driving limitations are as far as fatigue  which would be the biggest killer in Oz. The majority of accidents mainly occur around holiday time and long weekends with people traveling away

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, Russell17au said:

That changed your mindset and that is what is needed here. It needs to be the same principle here. It is a proven system that works. Some people quick jump up and down and say it is only a revenue maker, but I say to them that it is up to you, you do not have to contribute to it, just abide by the law and it cost you nothing. The system has lowered the road toll and they cannot argue against that.

I have no objection to sensible fines for actual dangerous driving. What I object to is fines even when not dangerous ( a warning should suffice if a fine on second warning ), but for ALL dangerous driving, not just easy to collect revenue from speeding fines.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

 I work in industry and am aware of the thousands of people who commute in and out if the industrial Estates 7 days a week...as well as their kids  going  to school.

I also aware of relative population density differences between Issan and Thailand's industrial belts.

If you look at the figures you too will  see that they also have the highest numbers of deaths and the highest rates 

The problem is that people believe what they see is everything when in reality  it is only a partial snapshot.if they bothered to look at the  stats and the analysis, a lot of misconceptions  and myths would be exploded 

In Lamphun the vast majority of people going to work in factories use m'bikes/ scooters, a few use cars or a small bus, and sod all that I ever saw go in vans, which are for the school run.

Perhaps in other areas they use vans but not in Lamphun.