UK and EU agree Brexit divorce bill: UK newspapers

[Jip99]

21 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Well considering the way the UK's economy is heading at the moment any extra pressure is going to have a significant effect I would have thought.  We are all holding our breath over this terrible Brexit fiasco and hoping by some miracle we will come through it with bruises rather than broken bones. 

 

 

52% of us don’t see Brexit as a fiasco.......more of a rosey future. 

 

The management of Brexit by the EU, and the UK government, is something of a fiasco...... but that will get played out in the due course of time.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Jip99

[dunroaming]

2 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

52% of us don’t see Brexit as a fiasco.......more of a rosey future. 

 

The management of Brexit by the EU, and the UK government, is something of a fiasco...... but that will get played out in the due course of time.

True 52% voted to leave, hardly a landslide.  I think that many are now regretting that but that could only be confirmed by a second referendum and the Brexit boys are way too scared to chance that.

 

You say that the management of Brexit is something of a fiasco but how exactly did you see it going then?

[Jip99]

4 hours ago, dunroaming said:

True 52% voted to leave, hardly a landslide.  I think that many are now regretting that but that could only be confirmed by a second referendum and the Brexit boys are way too scared to chance that.

 

You say that the management of Brexit is something of a fiasco but how exactly did you see it going then?

 

 

52% is a majority...which is more than sufficient.

 

The Thai Visa poll (and others) suggest that you are wrong. Those voting for Brexit are remaking resolute and main Remain voters have had a change of heart because of the belligerent attitude from the EU.

 

I didn’t have any view about the management of Brexit... Cameron screwed up first by going to the public with a referendum but no plan or strategy for a leave vote. Likewise, the EU, despite having Article 50 in place, had no idea how to implement a plan for the departure of one of the EU.

 

If those bright forkers can’t work it out please expect me, at my pay grade, to do any better.

 

As said, May was given a hospital pass, once Cameron bottled it,and I am not confident of her ability to deliver a Brexit that many voted for.  That said, she also has an unfortunate political weakness in being “unlucky”..... the snap election was a brilliant tactic - had her advisers not misjudged the situation.

 

But, I suspect she will bumble on, the jigsaw pieces are starting to fit and a fractious Brexit will be achieved...... frankly, I would rather have Cameron leading us out of the EU..........

[simoh1490]

47 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

52% is a majority...which is more than sufficient.

 

The Thai Visa poll (and others) suggest that you are wrong. Those voting for Brexit are remaking resolute and main Remain voters have had a change of heart because of the belligerent attitude from the EU.

 

I didn’t have any view about the management of Brexit... Cameron screwed up first by going to the public with a referendum but no plan or strategy for a leave vote. Likewise, the EU, despite having Article 50 in place, had no idea how to implement a plan for the departure of one of the EU.

 

If those bright forkers can’t work it out please expect me, at my pay grade, to do any better.

 

As said, May was given a hospital pass, once Cameron bottled it,and I am not confident of her ability to deliver a Brexit that many voted for.  That said, she also has an unfortunate political weakness in being “unlucky”..... the snap election was a brilliant tactic - had her advisers not misjudged the situation.

 

But, I suspect she will bumble on, the jigsaw pieces are starting to fit and a fractious Brexit will be achieved...... frankly, I would rather have Cameron leading us out of the EU..........

Apparently, changing our minds on an issue is something humans find extremely hard to do and is contrary to our basic make up. Science has shown that humans will go in search of data to support their chosen preference and that the brain releases dopamine as we read evidence that supports our choice. All of which probably accounts for the reason why Remainers, with a wealth of data available confirming the validity of their choice, are such happy people whilst Brexiteers, having almost zero supportive evidence at their disposal, are so glum.  

[bert bloggs]

13 hours ago, dunroaming said:

True 52% voted to leave, hardly a landslide.  I think that many are now regretting that but that could only be confirmed by a second referendum and the Brexit boys are way too scared to chance that.

 

You say that the management of Brexit is something of a fiasco but how exactly did you see it going then?

As i see it ,more of the remainers are now coming over to the Brexit side as lots of the fearmongering is not coming out as predicted ,so no second vote is needed , mind you if we voted in a govt by 52% to 48% ,would we have a rerun?

[ilostmypassword]

10 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

As i see it ,more of the remainers are now coming over to the Brexit side as lots of the fearmongering is not coming out as predicted ,so no second vote is needed , mind you if we voted in a govt by 52% to 48% ,would we have a rerun?

Actually, you do get reruns in the UK.  At least once every 5 years if not sooner. They're called elections. And unlike the Brexit referendum, they are binding until new elections are called.

[nontabury]

On 29/11/2017 at 5:20 PM, dunroaming said:

But not completely tongue in cheek.  Many qualified young Indians in the UK are looking at India.  Annoying that they have been educated in the UK and then will be leaving and taking their skills with them.

Where do you get these ideas from? I’m having treatment at a INDIA Hospital at the moment, and a number off the medical staff have told me they wish to emmigrate to the U.K.

In addition last night in the hotel a.electronic engineer told me he will be moving to the U.K in March.

 All these scare story’s, can you and the other remoaners please come up with something more substantial to support your claim of the impending diasaster that will befall the U.K when it leaves this so called union.

 

[nontabury]

On 29/11/2017 at 5:57 PM, Bluespunk said:

The desperation of the uk govt is clear.

 

The uk economy is going to be hit disastrously if it cannot access the eu market.

 

The days of imperial preference and commonwealth trading are over and have been since the 1930s.

Would that be on a par with the diasaster that you so Wrongly predicted would befall the U.K. should it vote democratically to leave this so called Union.

[ilostmypassword]

9 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Where do you get these ideas from? I’m having treatment at a INDIA Hospital at the moment, and a number off the medical staff have told me they wish to emmigrate to the U.K.

In addition last night in the hotel a.electronic engineer told me he will be moving to the U.K in March.

 All these scare story’s, can you and the other remoaners please come up with something more substantial to support your claim of the impending diasaster that will befall the U.K when it leaves this so called union.

 

You think anecdotes about some staff staff at a hospital in India qualify as "something substantial"?

 

[Bluespunk]

7 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Would that be on a par with the diasaster that you so Wrongly predicted would befall the U.K. should it vote democratically to leave this so called Union.

Did I?

 

Its certainly what I believe, where exactly did I say it?

 

As the uk hasn’t left yet, I would say it’s coming. Particularly as the disaster will be in economic terms. 

 

Unless, the EU allows the uk access to its market, the uk is screwed. 

 

Hence, the climb down and the 55 billion payment...

Edited December 2, 2017 by Bluespunk

[Khun Han]

11 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

23 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Where do you get these ideas from? I’m having treatment at a INDIA Hospital at the moment, and a number off the medical staff have told me they wish to emmigrate to the U.K.

In addition last night in the hotel a.electronic engineer told me he will be moving to the U.K in March.

 All these scare story’s, can you and the other remoaners please come up with something more substantial to support your claim of the impending diasaster that will befall the U.K when it leaves this so called union.

 

You think anecdotes about some staff staff at a hospital in India qualify as "something substantial"?

 

 

But you didn't substantiate your claim either.

[Khun Han]

9 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Did I?

 

Its certainly what I believe, where exactly did I say it?

 

As the uk hasn’t left yet, I would say it’s coming. Particularly as the disaster will be in economic terms. 

 

Unless, the EU allows the uk access to its market, the uk is screwed. 

 

Hence, the climb down and the 55 billion payment...

 

Remainers have wrongly been predicting immediate disaster since the referendum.

 

The up to 55 billion series of payments  are not a climb down: they are to buy us time whilst we set up better trading deals with non-EU countries.

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Remainers have wrongly been predicting immediate disaster since the referendum.

 

The up to 55 billion series of payments  are not a climb down: they are to buy us time whilst we set up better trading deals with non-EU countries.

Yeah right, sure it is. 

 

Oh, and I have never called for a new vote or said the brexit vote should not be respected. 

 

I think it was stupid and I think it will end in tears (though will be very happy if I’m wrong, I have friends and family inside the uk). 

 

However, the vote went the way of the brexiteers and they should be allowed to reap as they have sown. 

 

[simoh1490]

13 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Remainers have wrongly been predicting immediate disaster since the referendum.

 

The up to 55 billion series of payments  are not a climb down: they are to buy us time whilst we set up better trading deals with non-EU countries.

There you are, you heard it here first, it's all part of a grand master plan cunningly devised by Brexiteers, golly, aren't they clever.

[nontabury]

On 29/11/2017 at 7:49 AM, simoh1490 said:

Fortunately, most people in the UK understand that to simply walk away from the EU and pay nothing, a truly hard Brexit, means that the UK economy would take a long deep dive.

Why should we pay anything. Two opposite points of view.

Also in the event that  a E.U country, that is a nett receiver of E.U money, decides to leave, would the Bureaucrats in Brussels Demand that they must also pay a large divorce settlement.

 

https://youtu.be/pLNcY41Lo0k

[Basil B]

On 29/11/2017 at 1:17 PM, Jip99 said:

 

 

52% of us don’t see Brexit as a fiasco.......more of a rosey future. 

 

The management of Brexit by the EU, and the UK government, is something of a fiasco...... but that will get played out in the due course of time.

52% at the time of the referendum did not...

 

If you still think more than 50% of decent hard working Brits still think so then you are living in Cloud Cuckoo Land 

[tomacht8]

3 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Remainers have wrongly been predicting immediate disaster since the referendum.

 

The up to 55 billion series of payments  are not a climb down: they are to buy us time whilst we set up better trading deals with non-EU countries.

I hope all the Knights of the Round Table would share your optimism.
Have you never wondered why the UK now agrees to the 45-60 billion withdrawal?
Are there maybe any benefits from working with the 27 other states together, that are your neighbors?
Surely in the UK goverment there are currently even smarter people who get more out of the disaster, as you with your pink sunglasses.

[Khun Han]

47 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

I hope all the Knights of the Round Table would share your optimism.
Have you never wondered why the UK now agrees to the 45-60 billion withdrawal?
Are there maybe any benefits from working with the 27 other states together, that are your neighbors?
Surely in the UK goverment there are currently even smarter people who get more out of the disaster, as you with your pink sunglasses.

 

There are very few long-term benefits from putting all our eggs in the EU's basket. But we are in this situation because of corrupt, lazy politicians selling us down the river. We now have to take a financial hit (spread over several years btw) in order to buy time to set up new, better, less restrictive trade agreements elsewhere.

[tomacht8]

33 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

There are very few long-term benefits from putting all our eggs in the EU's basket. But we are in this situation because of corrupt, lazy politicians selling us down the river. We now have to take a financial hit (spread over several years btw) in order to buy time to set up new, better, less restrictive trade agreements elsewhere.

That's great.
Then write down which countries that will be, what these countries should deliver and what the UK is able to deliver in return to these countries, except for tickets to visit the old castles.
 

[Khun Han]

3 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

That's great.
Then write down which countries that will be, what these countries should deliver and what the UK is able to deliver in return to these countries, except for tickets to visit the old castles.
 

 

Here we go again with that nonsense about the UK having nothing to offer the world. I suppose the EU trades with us out of pity, does it? Google to find out what informal preliminary talks (they are substantial, and with many countries) are throwing out for the answers to your question. I'm not your errand boy.

[simoh1490]

Increasingly, investment houses are advising their clients to consider the impact of a Corbyn led government and businesses are now actively making contingency plans for this - it's only sensible what if, risk-based contingency planning. Those in favour of Brexit need to consider two aspects of a Corbyn led government: 1) why the government of the day might be replaced by the opposition, and 2) the impact of that change.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/02/prepare-corbyn-government-may-hanging-thread-worlds-largest/

 

We're all going to have different views on point number 1, but point number 2 is more clear since Labour has already set out its manifesto, which includes: nationalisation of some privatised industries; higher spending on social care; shrunken armed services; social housing; higher taxation of business and medium to high earners and, increased government borrowing my a substantial margin. There is, of course, great appeal to many of those items, at a personal level it would almost be a return to the glory days of the 1960's when social care was in full swing, the problem is, it's now 2017 and such a reversion is not economically sustainable nor is it in step with the rest of the industrialised world - businesses and high earners would almost leave in large numbers, remember the infamous note left at Treasury following the takeover of power following the last Labour governement, " sorry, there's nothing left, we spent it all", and they weren't joking, they had, which is one of the major reasons why we then had the Conservatives austerity program.

 

But then there's the question of Brexit and is Labour in favour of it or not. That's a bl**dy good question, even Labour knows that if they decide they divide and once they divide their chances of getting into power are reduced - everything I've read however suggests that Labour is not in favour of Brexit although they've refused to come right out and say so. Imagine that, a Labour-led government bankrupting the country and Brexit overturned by them, the worst of all worlds, absolutely nobody will be happy. And what could the electorate do about it all, having democratically elected them? Zero, zippo, nada, especially since the only other political party just got voted out. Armageddon perhaps, as in, am a gedding out of here! Comming to a theatre near you, very soon.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/26/labour-brexit-corbyn-momentum-eurosceptic-bennite

 

Edited December 2, 2017 by simoh1490

[simoh1490]

Oh look, that £300 million a week for the NHS popped back up again, the idea is still being promoted:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nhs-sir-vince-cable-eu-300m-a-week-stop-budget-a8088756.html

[Jip99]

8 hours ago, Basil B said:

52% at the time of the referendum did not...

 

If you still think more than 50% of decent hard working Brits still think so then you are living in Cloud Cuckoo Land 

 

 

The Thai Visa poll, and others, suggest that is not the case.

 

I don't have to live in cloud cuckoo land - that is for remoaners to fantasize about  -  I voted for, and will be part of Brexit-land....

[Basil B]

9 hours ago, Jip99 said:

The Thai Visa poll, and others, suggest that is not the case

I said "decent hard working Brits" what proportion of TV members actually are working in the UK???

 

Why has not the government commissioned an opinion pole to see what the the man in the street wants? re something like the Norway deal or a total break? I will tell you why they won't like the answer, already many Tory MP's know that they have rucked up and after the next election will be on the dole. 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Basil B said:

I said "decent hard working Brits" what proportion of TV members actually are working in the UK???

 

Why has not the government commissioned an opinion pole to see what the the man in the street wants? re something like the Norway deal or a total break? I will tell you why they won't like the answer, already many Tory MP's know that they have rucked up and after the next election will be on the dole. 

The government DID commission a poll, it was called the referendum, sorry you don't like the result.

[Jip99]

52 minutes ago, Basil B said:

I said "decent hard working Brits" what proportion of TV members actually are working in the UK???

 

Why has not the government commissioned an opinion pole to see what the the man in the street wants? re something like the Norway deal or a total break? I will tell you why they won't like the answer, already many Tory MP's know that they have rucked up and after the next election will be on the dole. 

 

 

No no need for an opinion pole........ we had a refendum. The public can’t choose the finer detail.

 

Elections ?......You are wrong on that account as well....... even remoaners are not stupid enough (are they?) to vote in a Corbyn government. Brexiteers are stuck with the conservatives, foe better or worse.

[jinners]

On 11/29/2017 at 1:43 PM, lincolnshire poacher said:

I've contemplated it and I would give them a chance, there hasn't been a worse government than this rabble in my lifetime.

Then I would have to question either your age or memory. Growing up I endured power cuts due to the <deleted> that was Ted Heath and the miners. Followed by the 3 day week which was the shambolic Callaghan government chatting with the unions over tea and biscuits in #10. Then Mr Grey John Major followed Maggie in to #10 and unleashed the worst idiotic traitor on to the country ever. Bliar, who is responsible for hundreds of thousands dead and injured. He also engineered mass immigration, or the start of what we see today while his sidekick stole the worlds best pension system and sold our gold reserves for a pittance of what would be market value unnecessarily while saddling the country with never before seen levels of debt. 

So while Mrs Maybe is not doing a great job in my view, the thoughts of getting terrorist loving Marxist anti British illiterates like Corbyn and Mcdonnell in to power is a horror I hope never to see.

[jinners]

On 11/29/2017 at 3:40 PM, Orac said:

 

Off the top of my head of the 163 WTO members we trade with only three  are not under some form of trade agreement or an agreement is currently being negotiated by the EU. I believe there are something like 42 separate bilateral agreements between the US and EU alone and a pound of flesh will probably be demanded to let the UK sign the same agreements individually.

85% of the worlds trade is done outside of the protectionist corrupt block that is the EU. We sell them much less than we actually buy in. WTO tariffs are set at whatever the country using them places them at. So while taxes are higher on many goods and waste unacceptably high within the EU agreements, once out of that we can choose who or what we do that suits us and our partners the best. Neither China or Canada have anything like the tie in required for the single market yet trade freely with the EU.

[jinners]

On 11/29/2017 at 6:32 PM, dunroaming said:

If any of us live that long 

 

Didn't realise the UK was the biggest market for the EU.  You mean we import more German cars than the US?  Maybe you should re-think that statement.

Correct. It should have said we import a great deal more than we export to the EU. Must have been a heavy night lol

[jinners]

On 11/29/2017 at 6:35 PM, ilostmypassword said:

Where did you ever come up with the idea that "most of Europe's imports come to the UK"?

yes, wrong! I meant more is imported to the UK  from EU countries than we export