Sickening kindergarten violence - more child abuse hushed up by the authorities

[crazygreg44]

18 minutes ago, Gandtee said:

I read the article and despite being told to drop it by the authorities why didn't they go to the police or further. What about the Paveena Hongsakul Foundation which is there to protect women and children? Yes, I know, Thais are wary of and subservient to authority, but until they get over it, things will not change. 

if you had read between the lines of my post carefully - and you should re-read it - I did not say I condone with the actions of the nannies. I instead suggested they might not be fit for such a job, because they are unable to discipline these kids in a manner that excludes using violence.

 

It is, like another reader said, a two way street.

 

I was married to a Kindergarten nanny for 7 years.  I sincerely hope you don't ask me to tell you HER stories about spoiled kids kicking other kids and harassing them

 

Education begins at home, and please be aware, regarding all further education in Kindergarten and School in this country it is difficult to find any good & well trained nannies and teachers

 

those here who called me idiot or worse, are forgiven. I doubt if any of them ever saw a kindergarten or a classroom from the point of view of a nanny or a teacher

Edited November 30, 2017 by crazygreg44

[Cranky]

31 minutes ago, toofarnorth said:

So you are saying if your child was running around out of control the teacher should let that pass by else you would kick the teachers head in but if it was another kid it would be ok .   I think anyone who would kick a teachers head in as a last resort needs jail time .

Violence begats violence !

Yes, sadly it does and this is one reason why so many turn in to thugs.  The teacher, however is already all grown up and past redemption so I would happily hold said teacher while 'toofarnorth' kicked said teachers head in

[TKDfella]

10 hours ago, crazygreg44 said:

guess, since these children don't receive any education by their parents and never learn to obey,  they continue to act as they like in Kindergarten or school, not listening or obeying the teacher or the nanny.

 

Which leads to such violent outbursts by teachers who wish to make themselves heard. A form of expressing their helplessness by playing out physical strength

 

If the children would just obey . . like the boy who starts wandering around, if it was for the Nanny who told him three, four times "please sit down with the others" without him reacting . . . well WHAT would you do in her place? Freak out or keep your calm? 

 

a difficult situation . . . if parents pass their educational responsibilities to nannies and teachers, they must be willing to accept that this education is based on learning & obeying

What is the video may teaching obedience but it's obedience by violence inducing fear. We have no idea why the first child in the video was wandering around; was he heading for the door to go to the toilet? Whatever it was he certainly did not deserve his ear yanked and what appeared to be a smack around the face with a rod. And it didn't stop there, the woman continued punishment to the child's hand. What would I have done in her place? I wouldn't have struck the child that's for sure! There are other ways and to 'freak out', as you say, is not on my list. The video exhibits cruelty not schooling.

[Craig krup]

9 hours ago, tonray said:

They are 5 years old for God's sake ! 

Socialization starts at two. Little emperor up until that point, and then there have to be demands and requirements, or you end up with an unemployable, un-biddable,  dysfunctional lunatic. 

[Dumbastheycome]

9 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

I am in no way condoning the actions of the woman but, and it is a very big but, in how many other stories of violence, blatant disregard for laws, rules & regulations committed by apparent adults do we hear the phrase posted by members of this forum that had they had discipline installed at an early age this sort of thing wouldn't happen ?

 

It's a two way street. 

Discipline or abuse? 

Define   discipline  in  terms   of  violence inflicted  on  3  to  4  year  olds.

Discipline  army  style  is  not  the  same  when it  is  expected  that  comprehension  of  rules  or  at  minimum  compliance  to  orders by people  who  are  old  enough  to  understand   .

The  person  in this  evidential presentation should  be  removed  and prosecuted  for   abuse. Severely

 

[richthai]

Hitting a child or a student is NEVER justified in a school.  It is abuse, plain and simple.  If children are not behaving, show patience and work with them.  They will respond to consistency and care.  It's a shame that this is tolerated.

[BigC]

11 hours ago, crazygreg44 said:

guess, since these children don't receive any education by their parents and never learn to obey,  they continue to act as they like in Kindergarten or school, not listening or obeying the teacher or the nanny.

 

Which leads to such violent outbursts by teachers who wish to make themselves heard. A form of expressing their helplessness by playing out physical strength

 

If the children would just obey . . like the boy who starts wandering around, if it was for the Nanny who told him three, four times "please sit down with the others" without him reacting . . . well WHAT would you do in her place? Freak out or keep your calm? 

 

a difficult situation . . . if parents pass their educational responsibilities to nannies and teachers, they must be willing to accept that this education is based on learning & obeying

You sound as stupid as that teacjer

 

that kid is what no more than 5

 

if that was my child I would shoot that person who hit my child

 

see how they feel when pick on someone their own size

 

your sick and stupid if you condone this 

Edited November 30, 2017 by BigC

[Wilsonandson]

Disgusting!

Words not needed.

Jail this woman!

Never let her near children ever again.

[poohy]

I would never beat my dogs!

 

But  young thai males however probably deserve it ....

 

i  dont have kids and am not a teacher

[embarr]

12 hours ago, crazygreg44 said:

guess, since these children don't receive any education by their parents and never learn to obey,  they continue to act as they like in Kindergarten or school, not listening or obeying the teacher or the nanny.

 

Which leads to such violent outbursts by teachers who wish to make themselves heard. A form of expressing their helplessness by playing out physical strength

 

If the children would just obey . . like the boy who starts wandering around, if it was for the Nanny who told him three, four times "please sit down with the others" without him reacting . . . well WHAT would you do in her place? Freak out or keep your calm? 

 

a difficult situation . . . if parents pass their educational responsibilities to nannies and teachers, they must be willing to accept that this education is based on learning & obeying

You are either trying to spark an argument...which i doubt by the tone...or...more likely, a total ignorant unfit person with the IQ of a doorknob...and so are all the others of the same kind that agreed with you. If you people do not have the basic intellect to understand 3 to 5 year old children and their curiosity to learn and activity level then you should not be allowed to breed...let alone collecting a salary for doing a job you do not seem to comprehend. I hope Darwin's law caught up with you and castrated you in some wierd accudent before you were able to create something you never be able to care for.

[embarr]

2 hours ago, TKDfella said:

What is the video may teaching obedience but it's obedience by violence inducing fear. We have no idea why the first child in the video was wandering around; was he heading for the door to go to the toilet? Whatever it was he certainly did not deserve his ear yanked and what appeared to be a smack around the face with a rod. And it didn't stop there, the woman continued punishment to the child's hand. What would I have done in her place? I wouldn't have struck the child that's for sure! There are other ways and to 'freak out', as you say, is not on my list. The video exhibits cruelty not schooling.

Don't ask what I had done in her place...ask what i had done (to her) if it would have been my kid coming home bruised and then seen the video. Authorities not doing anything and she back in a job that is very obviously way above her IQ...then as some of you, like her, claim that only violence helps...I uneasily but definately oblige...with the correct increase dictated by age difference...got plaster anyone?

[crazygreg44]

2 hours ago, BigC said:

You sound as stupid as that teacjer

 

that kid is what no more than 5

 

if that was my child I would shoot that person who hit my child

 

see how they feel when pick on someone their own size

 

your sick and stupid if you condone this 

oh wow you will solve this case!

 

do you realize that you will end up in prison for life if you shoot this teacher?

 

read my post again . . i never said I condone with what the nanny did . . I asked you to determine the circumstances.... read between my lines

Edited November 30, 2017 by crazygreg44

[crazygreg44]

25 minutes ago, embarr said:

You are either trying to spark an argument...which i doubt by the tone...or...more likely, a total ignorant unfit person with the IQ of a doorknob...and so are all the others of the same kind that agreed with you. If you people do not have the basic intellect to understand 3 to 5 year old children and their curiosity to learn and activity level then you should not be allowed to breed...let alone collecting a salary for doing a job you do not seem to comprehend. I hope Darwin's law caught up with you and castrated you in some wierd accudent before you were able to create something you never be able to care for.

IQ of a doorknob

 

 

this tells a lot about you.

 

You missed reading between the lines of my post

 

I never condoned the act. I only said HOW DIFFICULT it is to be a nanny

I doubt if YOU ever worked as a nanny or teacher . . so be glad you never had to make up your mind what to do in the face of spoilt children

 

I rate your opinion as unqualified  - read in previous posts that my ex-wife was a Kindergarten nanny - so all you have to share is something I am willing to excuse . . and that's what's to it

 

 

[HHTel]

The 'Child Protection Act' has been out for many years now and corporal punishment in schools was banned even before that.

I have never struck a female or a child but in this case I would make an exception.  She should be publicly punished and shamed and NEVER EVER be allowed near children again.  That goes for all teachers of the same ilk (she's not alone).  IT IS AGAINST THE LAW and shows the usual lack of respect by Thais of their own laws.

The authorities are equally to blame in doing nothing and even brushing these incidents under the carpet.

Is there any wonder that the Thai youth resorts to violence at the drop of a hat.  They learn in school that it's ok for big people to hit little people.

It's about time that these individuals are punished to the extent of the law.  A 'wai' and apology is not worth a jot.  

Disgraceful behaviour!

[WHYWHY]

14 hours ago, crazygreg44 said:

guess, since these children don't receive any education by their parents and never learn to obey,  they continue to act as they like in Kindergarten or school, not listening or obeying the teacher or the nanny.

 

Which leads to such violent outbursts by teachers who wish to make themselves heard. A form of expressing their helplessness by playing out physical strength

 

If the children would just obey . . like the boy who starts wandering around, if it was for the Nanny who told him three, four times "please sit down with the others" without him reacting . . . well WHAT would you do in her place? Freak out or keep your calm? 

 

a difficult situation . . . if parents pass their educational responsibilities to nannies and teachers, they must be willing to accept that this education is based on learning & obeying

Wow would you still say the same if this was your child 

If the child would obey yes children sometime just need to move 

I have an idea maybe restraint them hands feet that way will obey 

 

This sort of behaviour results in a child being hurt but parents told to drop it no way 

Take your child out find somewhere else Problem Solved 

[rct99q]

14 hours ago, rkidlad said:

This must be all the Buddhism I keep hearing about. Calm heads and all that. Never really understood how you can get angry with a child. Annoyed, sure. But it's a child. You don't like kids then don't have them and don't work with them. Simple really.

 

At the end of the day, it's all okay as long as you say "it's my culture". A perfect excuse for being a <deleted> which other <deleted> will agree with. 

Yep...just like those good old Christian values people hear about...it has nothing to do with religious beliefs.

[rkidlad]

4 hours ago, rct99q said:

Yep...just like those good old Christian values people hear about...it has nothing to do with religious beliefs.

No, it has to do with hypocrisy. Thailand is the most religious country in the world. Buddhism is a religion of ‘peace’. 

[catman20]

this sort of teachers behavior was going on all the time when i was at school. not good but just saying.

[Airbagwill]

21 hours ago, crazygreg44 said:

guess, since these children don't receive any education by their parents and never learn to obey,  they continue to act as they like in Kindergarten or school, not listening or obeying the teacher or the nanny.

 

Which leads to such violent outbursts by teachers who wish to make themselves heard. A form of expressing their helplessness by playing out physical strength

 

If the children would just obey . . like the boy who starts wandering around, if it was for the Nanny who told him three, four times "please sit down with the others" without him reacting . . . well WHAT would you do in her place? Freak out or keep your calm? 

 

a difficult situation . . . if parents pass their educational responsibilities to nannies and teachers, they must be willing to accept that this education is based on learning & obeying

You should be thoroughly ashamed of this post...it displays the same ignorant and violent attitudes held by some of these carers 

[fullcave]

12 hours ago, toofarnorth said:

 

Violence begats violence !

Exactly my point.

[LazySlipper]

Thailand, the society of no consequences and no social services.

 

As a teacher, back home, if children display repeated problems they are cataloged and the parents are involved and if it is found that the parents do nothing... or are the source of the problem, then social services are brought in.

 

The consequence can be the parents put on probation or the children placed in foster homes. 

 

The point is that there are consequences and a system the teachers can turn to if they need it. 

 

Here, education is a business and the kids soon realize that they cannot fail. This is enforced by the MOE and it is what ties the hands of the teachers. The cherry on the sunday is the fact that schools are a business here. You figure out what is wrong... cos I'm still in limbo trying to get them to learn.

[GForce7]

In a world where only males are challenged on family violence this is a very revealng video. Violent treatment of defenseless kids by female carers may be more common than society admits.

[selftaopath]

I wonder if the Thai government or "educators" ever researched long term effects of corporal punishment? 

 

Maybe those adults who subscribe to this could also learn something if they did also. 

[selftaopath]

20 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

It's hard to believe that anyone could defend such behaviour.

 

That was no "violent outburst", it was prolonged beating of helpless children, carried out by the people who should be protecting them.

 

It's about time that some very stiff penalties were handed out, to send a message to such people. A few weeks in prison for these two women would be a good start.

In many/most developed countries abusive teachers would be jailed. As there are laws AGAINST it. But TIT. 

[Artisi]

1 minute ago, selftaopath said:

In many/most developed countries abusive teachers would be jailed. As there are laws AGAINST it. But TIT. 

Law against it in LOS also, but that's as useful as tits on a bull. 

[Winky Wilson]

Most Thai children are well behaved from a very young age. I assume they are disciplined from a very young age.

[thaiclan]

Most of the comments here are all opinion.  Fair enough but what the facts here are is that the LAW has been broken. It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with corporal punishment, the fact is that in this country it IS illegal, whether to hit with your hand, to push or force or to use an instrument to hit.
So the issue here is how to enforce the law?
To bring the attention to the police you must make a police report. You do not need to be the victim to make a police report, you can be a parent of another class member.
The police action is taken against the teacher and not the school.

 

I know this because I sent my child to an English program school (in Pattaya) and on the very first day my daughter told me a class peer had been hit with a ruler on the hand for getting an answer incorrect.
I was shocked so I found online the law and printed it out in both Thai and English (school is run by Thais but this teacher was Filipino).  I went to the school and told both the teacher and the school that if ever my daughter witnessed another class member be hit I would personally make a police report.
It also states in the law that parents CANNOT ask or give consent for a teacher to hit their child.
The Filipino teacher cried and asked me how else can she control the class.  I reminded her that she wasn't controlling the class but rather physically bullying a learner who had not yet learned.
Just off the top of my head but how about inspiring, encouraging, motivating, caring, enquiring, practising, theorising, conversing......or else like many have said here perhaps the teaching profession just isn't for you.

So any members here that can speak and write Thai, the better thing to do (rather than opine here) is to flood the Thai boards with the law and how to implement it in this case.
The parent of the child does not have the right to allow this as much as the teacher does not have the right to inflict physical action on any child.
If not YOU then who?. . . .

[Rawnthai]

I'll bet the parents can name the place and names. If they don't, I'm sorry they made it to parenthood.

[Gandtee]

1 hour ago, selftaopath said:

I wonder if the Thai government or "educators" ever researched long term effects of corporal punishment? 

 

Maybe those adults who subscribe to this could also learn something if they did also. 

Maybe the children who were punished think this is the way to instill discipline. When they become adults some may go on to become trainers in the military.

[YetAnother]

On 11/30/2017 at 9:40 AM, webfact said:

parents at the kindergarten had gone to the authorities and been told to drop it.

typical response by 'authorities' here; little respect for law,order,morality