Protocol for condo raising management fees?

[smutcakes]

14 minutes ago, cheeryble said:

If someone's in the office doing the day to day stuff, proportional to a salary like 15k/month, does one really need more than a JP/overmanager who will come in a couple of times per week for a couple of hours for an overview of staff work and sign one or two bits and pieces? Naturally they may be busier once or twice a year for general meetings and occasionally a committee meeting. But surely there are many competent Thais of good reputation who would do this part time. The legal side can be learned in hours.

If you plan on managing your condominium properly there is far more to do than one person could do, especially one who would be happy with 15K a month.

[cheeryble]

4 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

If you plan on managing your condominium properly there is far more to do than one person could do, especially one who would be happy with 15K a month.

You may be right but there's an old management adage that higher salary doesn't buy higher quality. Skilful oversight and an intelligent system does.

[smutcakes]

15 minutes ago, cheeryble said:

You may be right but there's an old management adage that higher salary doesn't buy higher quality. Skilful oversight and an intelligent system does.

Yes of course, you need the correct person at the appropriate salary. I am not sure who you think is going to be implementing the system or providing full time oversight? Hell of a lot of work for a Committee.

[cheeryble]

5 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Yes of course, you need the correct person at the appropriate salary. I am not sure who you think is going to be implementing the system or providing full time oversight? Hell of a lot of work for a Committee.

 

Take your point absolutely Smutcakes...........butI'm of the opinion that if a proper system is in place.......a rare bird in Thailand!......the part time JP can be overseer with very few working hours.

Edited December 16, 2017 by cheeryble

[smutcakes]

1 minute ago, cheeryble said:

 

Take your point absolutely...........butI'm of the opinion that if a proper system is in place.......a rare bird in Thailand!......the part time JP can be overseer with very few working hours.

Personally i think you underestimate how much work you need regardless of the system. Who is reading all water meters, preparing invoices, collecting money, doing the accounts, controlling cleaning/security, pest control, meeting contractors, getting 3 quotations for repairs/maintenance, preparing documents for Committee Meetings, General meetings, attending issues in the common areas, Co-owners issues, going to the lands department, or police station, maintenance plans the list goes on...

 

There is a lot to do day to day if you run the building properly. Who and where are you going to find a part time JPM? 

[lkn]

40 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

If you plan on managing your condominium properly there is far more to do than one person could do, especially one who would be happy with 15K a month.

Cleaning, security (guard), and some service/maintenance (like elevator, pumps, pest control, gardening, etc.) would be outsourced.

 

But then you are not left with more than what should be doable by a single building manager, although it would be best to have a technician come 1-2 times/week to handle more technical stuff, and also have a real accountant update the books 1-2 times/month.

 

Of course it depends on the building’s size. Here I am thinking about a low rise as the one in delight’s numbers (less than 4,000 sq. m.).

 

Edit: As for the things being outsourced, all but security guard would not need to be full time (again, assuming small building).

Edited December 16, 2017 by lkn

[smutcakes]

1 minute ago, lkn said:

Cleaning, security (guard), and some service/maintenance (like elevator, pumps, pest control, etc.) would be outsourced.

 

But then you are not left with more than what should be doable by a single building manager, although it would be best to have a technician come 1-2 times/week to handle more technical stuff, and also have a real accountant update the books 1-2 times/month.

 

Of course it depends on the building’s size. Here I am thinking about a low rise as the one in delight’s numbers (less than 4,000 sq. m.).

 

Yes outsourced but if you don't have anyone to control them, they are not going to do much. You also need someone on site when pest control, outsourced contractors are there to oversee their work, and guide them where there are problems. Most modern condos in Bangkok and some in Pattaya have technicians on site 24 hours a day, and they are permanently doing maintenance and preventative maintenance.

 

Obviously there are economies of scale in larger condos, and in really small ones like 4,000 sqm at 40 baht per month you don't have much budget anyway so you have no option but to manage on a shoestring. 

 

 

[lkn]

2 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Yes outsourced but if you don't have anyone to control them, they are not going to do much. You also need someone on site when pest control, outsourced contractors are there to oversee their work, and guide them where there are problems

Yes, that would be the building manager’s job. I didn’t say you could do with zero people, I said that when you outsource the above tasks, you should be able to do just fine with only one full time person.

 

It’s actually a bit of a luxury with a full time building manager who can also act as your concierge, something which I have never seen in European buildings, yet they seem to manage quite well, although the better build quality might mean less issues.

[smutcakes]

1 minute ago, lkn said:

Yes, that would be the building manager’s job. I didn’t say you could do with zero people, I said that when you outsource the above tasks, you should be able to do just fine with only one full time person.

 

It’s actually a bit of a luxury with a full time building manager who can also act as your concierge, something which I have never seen in European buildings, yet they seem to manage quite well, although the better build quality might mean less issues.

I think here, particularly its more management intensive than European as many of the people here are transient, you have a lot of renters, people obviously struggle with day to day things because of the language etc so its more hands on here than it would be in Europe. 

 

In Europe if you had a plumbing problem the owner would simply pick up yellow pages and call a plumber, here for simple tasks it is much more complicated for owners who do not have help.

[lkn]

34 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

In Europe if you had a plumbing problem the owner would simply pick up yellow pages and call a plumber, here for simple tasks it is much more complicated for owners who do not have help.

Come to think of it, another issue is probably also the way business works here.

 

Contractors here are paid in cash on delivery, where in Europe, they send an invoice to the building’s administrator, committee members then approve the bill, and the building’s administrator is located off-site and probably manages the finances of 20 different buildings.

 

Furthermore, in Europe if the committee decides they want to paint the building, they assign a committee member to get quotations, which only require sending out a few emails to different painters describing the task and giving the address of the building, and the contractors generally know they will be paid when the job is done properly, and spilling paint on the floors, using the wrong color on part of a wall, forgetting one floor, etc. is generally not acceptable by anyone in Europe, so such gross mistakes do not need to be pointed out by a building manager :)

 

And to bring it back to the first point about being paid in cash on delivery versus sending an invoice, the latter has the advantage that the committee and co-owners will have many days to evaluate the result, before the bill has to be paid.

Edited December 16, 2017 by lkn

[huawei]

It's insane to think you can manage a large modern complex under 45 baht per sq. meter. Unless it high in density, minimal common area, lacking in security, maids, technicians, repairs, improvements..internet, water bills, electricity for swimming pool, decent servicing of elevators..the list is endless..