document legalization at the MFA

[tutsiwarrior]

I have a document that needs to be legalized by the Legalization Division of the Department of Consular Affairs at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs at Chang Wattana in BKK...the (one page) document has to be translated into the thai language before it can be submitted for legalization...the document is a routine income affidavit issued by the US embassy for purposes of obtaining a yearly extension of stay from thai immigration...

 

there are private translation services available in the the dept of consular affairs building for this purpose and a one day turn around is possible with an additional fee...

 

my question is: if I submit the document for translation in the afternoon will it be ready to collect before 0930hrs the next morning in order to submit to the MFA for legalization? anyone have any experience of this process?

 

a warning to applicants for extensions of stay that live in thai immigration district 3: MFA legalization as described above is now required for income affidavits from foreign embassies...this has been reported before from applicants in Pathumthani, Nonthaburi and Nakhon Pathom and, to my dismay I discovered the requirement at my IO this month in Suphanburi...immigration district 3 only, nothing to do with the rest of Thailand...so be aware if you live in this area and investigate the extension of stay requirements from your local IO before you apply...a huge hassle requiring time and money could result and could cause an expensive delay to the extension renewal process...

 

and use whatever resources you have to complain about the district 3 supervisor maniac with the ridiculous requirement affecting folks just wanting to mind their own business...NOT REQUIRED ELSEWHERE IN THAILAND!!!

 

 

Edited December 11, 2017 by tutsiwarrior

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, tutsiwarrior said:

there are private translation services available in the the dept of consular affairs building for this purpose and a one day turn around is possible with an additional fee...

How much are you willing to pay, the experience of a friend at the MFA translation offices was 400baht, 3 days, 3000baht same day?

1 hour ago, tutsiwarrior said:

my question is: if I submit the document for translation in the afternoon will it be ready to collect before 0930hrs the next morning in order to submit to the MFA for legalization? anyone have any experience of this process?

Once you submit have you considered EMS return post by the MFA, instead of hanging around for 1-3 days.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Tanoshi

[tutsiwarrior]

36 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Once you submit have you considered EMS return post by the MFA, instead of hanging around for 1-3 days.

 

EMS ain't happenin' according the the dude that I talked on the telephone line from the MFA...in person only...

 

yew think I'd put meself thru all this shit if there was an easier way?

 

when I asked why they hadn't updated their advice on their website it was 'ho, hum...'

 

anyone have any recent success with the postal MFA service recently? any documents returned?

 

 

Edited December 11, 2017 by tutsiwarrior

[Tanoshi]

14 minutes ago, tutsiwarrior said:

EMS ain't happenin', bro according the the dude that I talked on the telephone line from the MFA...in person only...

 

yew think I'd put meself thru all this shit if there was an easier way?

 

 

 

 

You submit in person, they can return by EMS.

Know loads that have done it that way.

 

Have a friend just been to the British Embassy, going to MFA tomorrow, so I'll update.

[tutsiwarrior]

19 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

You submit in person, they can return by EMS.

Know loads that have done it that way.

 

Have a friend just been to the British Embassy, going to MFA tomorrow, so I'll update.

 

yeah...please...we need to have all the info for this to lessen the inconvenience...an EMS return after submitting in person will help tremendously, otherwise I'd need to have a driver outta BKK retrieve the document and bring it up to my house at considerable cost...

 

('bbbut, wouldn't it be nice to have an excuse to have a party in BKK?'...shit; I'd rather sleep in my own bed and eat my own food than any party in that shithole...not directed at you, tanoshi you have been helpful...)

 

 

Edited December 11, 2017 by tutsiwarrior

[Andrew Dwyer]

 
yeah...please...we need to have all the info for this to lessen the inconvenience...an EMS return after submitting in person will help tremendously, otherwise I'd need to have a driver outta BKK retrieve the document and bring it up to my house at considerable cost...
 
('bbbut, wouldn't it be nice to have an excuse to have a party in BKK?'...shit; I'd rather sleep in my own bed and eat my own food than any party in that shithole...not directed at you, tanoshi you have been helpful...)
 
 

I can confirm that an EMS return is available from MFA, I visited British Embassy and on going back home ( Ayutthaya ) called in at MFA , EMS took about 3 days.
Sorry, don’t recall the actual cost .

[tutsiwarrior]

38 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

 

I can confirm that an EMS return is available from MFA, I visited British Embassy and on going back home ( Ayutthaya ) called in at MFA , EMS took about 3 days.
Sorry, don’t recall the actual cost .

 

 

thanks Andrew...for most of us remote from the MFA the EMS cost won't be that bad to have the signed document delivered...the alternative is to hang around BKK with the associated expense when we'd just like to be at home playing with the grandkids...

 

as this requirement for MFA is unusual I fear that some folks may find themselves in a bind if they leave the extension renewal to the 'last minute'...if yer in immigration district 3 check out yer IO requirements for extensions of stay a few weeks before ye apply...

 

btw...Ayutthaya IO had this requirement briefly and then someone said that it had been withdrawn...when were you there last? Ayutthaya useta be my IO until the Suphan office opened last year and there was no requirement for MFA then and I was dismayed when I heard...they were always nice folks...but the diktat came from above just like it did at Suphan and they had no choice...

 

I called 1178 and complained and the dude said: 'it's probably a new requirement' and I said': 'if it is a new requirement then it would be nationwide and for which I would have no problem...BUT IT IS NOT! it's just for immigration district 3 indicating that someone there has a serious problem as extreme inconvenience can occur, especially when extension applicants have no previous advice...'

 

if enough folks complain maybe we can beat this...don't be afraid of the bastids...

 

 

[ubonjoe]

9 hours ago, tutsiwarrior said:

I have a document that needs to be legalized by the Legalization Division of the Department of Consular Affairs at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs at Chang Wattana in BKK...the (one page) document has to be translated into the thai language before it can be submitted for legalization...the document is a routine income affidavit issued by the US embassy for purposes of obtaining a yearly extension of stay from thai immigration...

 

Are you sure they said it had to be translated to Thai. The other offices only want the signature of the consular officer who signed the affidavit verified.

It is merely a sticker like this put on it.

[Andrew Dwyer]

6 hours ago, tutsiwarrior said:

 

thanks Andrew...for most of us remote from the MFA the EMS cost won't be that bad to have the signed document delivered...the alternative is to hang around BKK with the associated expense when we'd just like to be at home playing with the grandkids...

 

as this requirement for MFA is unusual I fear that some folks may find themselves in a bind if they leave the extension renewal to the 'last minute'...if yer in immigration district 3 check out yer IO requirements for extensions of stay a few weeks before ye apply...

 

btw...Ayutthaya IO had this requirement briefly and then someone said that it had been withdrawn...when were you there last? Ayutthaya useta be my IO until the Suphan office opened last year and there was no requirement for MFA then and I was dismayed when I heard...they were always nice folks...but the diktat came from above just like it did at Suphan and they had no choice...

 

I called 1178 and complained and the dude said: 'it's probably a new requirement' and I said': 'if it is a new requirement then it would be nationwide and for which I would have no problem...BUT IT IS NOT! it's just for immigration district 3 indicating that someone there has a serious problem as extreme inconvenience can occur, especially when extension applicants have no previous advice...'

 

if enough folks complain maybe we can beat this...don't be afraid of the bastids...

 

 

I haven’t done an extension yet ( due Sept 2018 ) as managed to squeeze 2 years from an O-A Visa.

Was at IO a couple of weeks ago for TM30 update ( thankfully Ayutthaya don’t enforce it ), they seem friendly enough. My next 90 days is not for 70 days and I probably will try online but the IO is not far from me so I can pop in anytime.

[Tanoshi]

12 hours ago, tutsiwarrior said:

yeah...please...we need to have all the info for this to lessen the inconvenience...an EMS return after submitting in person will help tremendously, otherwise I'd need to have a driver outta BKK retrieve the document and bring it up to my house at considerable cost...

Update;

 

At submission you'll need a copy of your passport homepage and a copy of your current Visa/extension stamp.

He paid 800 baht for legalisation of his document and 60 baht for EMS return.

He arrived 0900 and queued for 1 1/2 hours, but they were closed yesterday so traffic could have been busier today.

 

Getting your document translated may be your biggest stumbling block.

My friend visited 5 translators who all wanted to charge extortionate fees for completing the whole process and refused just to provide a translation (these were British Embassy recommended translators). He eventually found one willing to do just the translation for 600 baht.

[tutsiwarrior]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Are you sure they said it had to be translated to Thai. The other offices only want the signature of the consular officer who signed the affidavit verified.

It is merely a sticker like this put on it.

 

the MFA website says that all documents to be submitted for verification must be translated into thai so I presume that includes income affidavits from embassies...sure would be nice if a translation wasn't required as then the associated delay could be avoided...

 

there is an MFA telephone number but most of the time there's no answer, 025751058 - 9...

 

 

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, tutsiwarrior said:

the MFA website says that all documents to be submitted for verification must be translated into thai so I presume that includes income affidavits from embassies...sure would be nice if a translation wasn't required as then the associated delay could be avoided...

The one that sticker was on was still in English. Having the consular officers signature certified is not the same as having the entire document certified. Many have have had it done without it being translated.

 

[tutsiwarrior]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

The one that sticker was on was still in English. Having the consular officers signature certified is not the same as having the entire document certified. Many have have had it done without it being translated.

 

I managed to get thru to the MFA 025751058 number just now and the lady confirmed that my document requires translation before submitting...I tried to describe the document (US embassy income affidavit for purposes if a thai immigration extension of stay) and it's purpose but she didn't appear to consider that to be any different than any other document...

 

at the MFA consular section one approaches a window and explains one's business and then takes a seat until called and attended to...perhaps it's at this initial step that someone decides whether a translation is required or not...

 

very discouraging...

 

 

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, tutsiwarrior said:

I managed to get thru to the MFA 025751058 number just now and the lady confirmed that my document requires translation before submitting...I tried to describe the document (US embassy income affidavit for purposes if a thai immigration extension of stay) and it's purpose but she didn't appear to consider that to be any different than any other document...

 

Did you make it clear you wanted the consular officers signature verified? 

If you told them you wanted a document certified they probably told you the correct info.

[ChouDoufu]

there is a translation service across the street from

the ministry.........take the pedestrian overpass to

the thai style houses.

 

faster and cheaper than the service in the ministry

building.

 

phone/email sent by PM.

[Tanoshi]

@tutsiwarrior

 

You appear to have been given some misleading advice from whoever you've spoken to at the MFA, which is nothing new in Thailand!

 

Firstly, MFA do offer return of documents by EMS as I previously stated, was confirmed on this forum and by a friend who completed this process only yesterday at the MFA.

 

Secondly, the income verification letter from your Embassy only requires the Embassy signature to be certified for it to be acceptable to Immigration. Using the term 'legalisation of document' may have confused the staff.

As UJ correctly stated above, a translation of your document shouldn't be required as you only need the MFA apostille certifying the Embassy signature authenticity. Immigration accept documents in English.

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

@tutsiwarrior

 

You appear to have been given some misleading advice from whoever you've spoken to at the MFA, which is nothing new in Thailand!

 

Firstly, MFA do offer return of documents by EMS as I previously stated, was confirmed on this forum and by a friend who completed this process only yesterday at the MFA.

 

Secondly, the income verification letter from your Embassy only requires the Embassy signature to be certified for it to be acceptable to Immigration. Using the term 'legalisation of document' may have confused the staff.

 

As UJ correctly stated above, a translation of your document shouldn't be required as you only need the MFA apostille certifying the Embassy signature authenticity. Immigration accept documents in English.

I agree on this - I've done it.  The only document which I needed Translated was my "affirmation of ability to marry" - for an Amphur (not immigration).  I also legalized the Consular Signature on my Income-doc - Without Translation of it.

 

Immigration has not been reported (yet) to require English Income Docs to be translated to Thai.

 

Note that you can use EMS Both Ways - Send and Receive - with the MFA.  I have done this - saved me another trip to Bangkok - paid with a money-order from the post office for the cost of verifying the signature (200 Baht) plus the EMS return-postage - and this was for an income-doc (US Embassy stat-dec). 

[tutsiwarrior]

4 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

@tutsiwarrior

 

You appear to have been given some misleading advice from whoever you've spoken to at the MFA, which is nothing new in Thailand!

 

Firstly, MFA do offer return of documents by EMS as I previously stated, was confirmed on this forum and by a friend who completed this process only yesterday at the MFA.

 

Secondly, the income verification letter from your Embassy only requires the Embassy signature to be certified for it to be acceptable to Immigration. Using the term 'legalisation of document' may have confused the staff.

As UJ correctly stated above, a translation of your document shouldn't be required as you only need the MFA apostille certifying the Embassy signature authenticity. Immigration accept documents in English.

 

 

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I agree on this - I've done it.  The only document which I needed Translated was my "affirmation of ability to marry" - for an Amphur (not immigration).  I also legalized the Consular Signature on my Income-doc - Without Translation of it.

 

Immigration has not been reported (yet) to require English Income Docs to be translated to Thai.

 

Note that you can use EMS Both Ways - Send and Receive - with the MFA.  I have done this - saved me another trip to Bangkok - paid with a money-order from the post office for the cost of verifying the signature (200 Baht) plus the EMS return-postage - and this was for an income-doc (US Embassy stat-dec). 

 

yeah...and now, having been to the MFA this morning, I can confirm that no translation is required for verification of the consular agent signature on the US embassy income affidavit...when you come to the consular section (3rd floor) the first folks that you speak to have a 'menu' of services in English on the wall behind them and for signature verification one selects the first item: 'certified genuine signature' 200baht...60baht to post the document back to the customer by EMS...

 

when I talked to the MFA by phone the first time a few days ago the dude said that doing things by mail was not possible and that I had to come in person...and I noted when I was there that the EMS service was only offered for purposes of returning the document when the signature verification was finished...the folks seemed to need sight of yer original passport picture page and yer visa stamp to proceed with the processing...

 

when I was at my IO in Suphanburi they indicated to me that what they wanted was the sticker as pictured in UJ's post #8 which is what is provided with the 'certified genuine signature' option and for which no translation is required...might  be wise to confirm with yer IO that this is what they want when they give you the bad news regarding required MFA action to process yer extension of stay application...

 

and now after all the aggravation (and expense) I shall drown in a sea of vodka...

 

 

 

 

[wayned]

I once had to have my passport Bio details translated to Thai and certified by the MFA.  The translation service that I used did the translation, took the documents to MFA and had them certified and then sent them to me EMS..  You should contact the translation service direct and see if they provide this service.  You could go to the Embassy and get the Affidavit and then drop it off at the translation service on your way out of town if you use one near Chiang Wattana and have then send the certified copy to you via EMS.

[JackThompson]

21 minutes ago, wayned said:

I once had to have my passport Bio details translated to Thai and certified by the MFA.  The translation service that I used did the translation, took the documents to MFA and had them certified and then sent them to me EMS..  You should contact the translation service direct and see if they provide this service.  You could go to the Embassy and get the Affidavit and then drop it off at the translation service on your way out of town if you use one near Chiang Wattana and have then send the certified copy to you via EMS.

He's got it done now - no translation was needed for his income-doc. 

 

But if doing a translated doc, this is a good policy, because any issues with the translation will be handled between the translator and the MFA.

[tutsiwarrior]

15 minutes ago, wayned said:

I once had to have my passport Bio details translated to Thai and certified by the MFA.  The translation service that I used did the translation, took the documents to MFA and had them certified and then sent them to me EMS..  You should contact the translation service direct and see if they provide this service.  You could go to the Embassy and get the Affidavit and then drop it off at the translation service on your way out of town if you use one near Chiang Wattana and have then send the certified copy to you via EMS.

 

yeah...but if all that's required is signature verification of the embassy document then a translation is not required...

 

all the same, that's good to know, wayne for other purposes when a translation is required...in my case I was prepare to stay a night in BKK to have the translation done if required and then proceed with the verification...if there are translation services that can 'carry the ball' after the translation is done then good...one can then go home and sleep in one's own bed...

 

 

[Tanoshi]

53 minutes ago, wayned said:

I once had to have my passport Bio details translated to Thai and certified by the MFA.  The translation service that I used did the translation, took the documents to MFA and had them certified and then sent them to me EMS..  You should contact the translation service direct and see if they provide this service.  You could go to the Embassy and get the Affidavit and then drop it off at the translation service on your way out of town if you use one near Chiang Wattana and have then send the certified copy to you via EMS.

There is an upside and a downside to these translation services.

 

After obtaining a certified 'affirmation to marry' from the BE, my friend went to the next step of having it translated.

The translator asked if he had a certified copy of his passport from the BE, which she insisted the MFA required.

She showed him an example of another foreigners certified passport with a second attached page in Thai.

They stated they would get the translated legalised, obtain their marriage certificates and even get the surname of his g/f's Thai ID card changed to his surname and they could collect in 5 days. Cost 9,000 baht.

 

The Thai page turned out to be a 'power of attorney' form.

(I still fail to see how they could have legally obtained marriage certificates and a new Thai ID card).

When my friend declined this service, they refused to do just the translation, insisting they completed everything.

He approached 5 other translators, same deal, until he found 1 willing to do just the translation.

 

These were all BE recommended translators.

 

[puyaidon]

I can only speak for my experience in Nonthaburi but had to get the Income statement legalized first in March 2016 and again in March of this year.  No translation was required but the 2016 requirement without the EMS function.  The 2017 requirement had the option of EMS.  Cost of the EMS was 60 baht but can't recall the cost of the legalization.  The document arrived at my house the next day after turning it in.

 

Being a pessimist, I can only assume that some foreigner in Nonthaburi tried to turn in a fraudulent income document when doing the visa application.  For those of us that use the US Embassy, $50 US is a  steep price when we can get the same service in the US for far less or even free but that is the price we must pay to stay here.  I don't think the Nonthaburi Immigration Office is at fault for this requirement but I would choose to blame some foreigner who tried to game the system.  

[tutsiwarrior]

document delivered by EMS today, submitted to MFA on Wed...no extra charges; 200baht for MFA signature verification and 60baht for EMS post...

 

total expenses for the exercise 6000baht, an invoice for which shall be submitted directly to thai immigration district 3 addressed to the idiot therein responsible for the inconvenience...to paraphrase the immortal words of Fred C Dobbs from Treasure of the sierra madre: 'yew better think twice before yew monkey around with tutsiwarrior...'

 

yes - sirrr...