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A Bar Girl Versus a Date – Is it really clear the best option?


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37 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I have no problem with people discussing anything , its just the sheer volume of discussion about underage sex here , along with some posters "celebrating" because they got themselves an 18 year old girl .

   I cant help thinking that some of the posters who covert 18 year olds , would go below that given the opportunity .

  Wonder why some posters dont take an interest in other sexual practices , like S/M , bestiality,  incest , 69 with a ladyboy

*Dont want to talk about that , lets talk about underage girls*

    

Any thought about S/M , bestiality,  incest , 69 with a ladyboy is disgusting.

But cute girls...   until now 143,841,007 views ...

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

By your own admission you get offended by guys jogging with their shirts off so I’m not surprised talking about underage sex shocks you. In fact anyone speaking about sex seems to upset you going by some of your previous responses. 

I do not get offended by guys jogging topless , I just find it quite unpleasant on the eye .

   I don't mind talking about sex , its just here on TV that seems to be a constant discussion .

   I do feel that peoples sex lives should be kept private and I have no desire to have a circle jerk with TV posters about what they did last night

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  On 7/25/2018 at 1:36 PM, spidermike007 said:

I would think most people would prefer not to read about something like this. It is not meant to be a "feel good" topic. It is a national and perhaps international tragedy. An unmooring of society. An issue that goes to the very root of our foundations. But, it is a truth. And as much as we would sometimes like to bury our heads in the sand, that changes the reality not one iota. It is happening. As we speak. 13 year olds are having sex! Like it or not. 

 

Spidermike007... I'm gunna give you 11 out of 10.  Not for the facts you describe but for telling the truth.  Keep 'em comming.

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On 7/25/2018 at 4:30 PM, sanemax said:

I am not pretending it doesnt exist  , I just get tired of reading about underage sex on TV .

   Theres usually at least one or two or more threads going about pedos and underage sex and sex with 18 year olds , sexy uni girls.

   Fair enough , I shouldnt come into these threads .

I just dont think that its healthy .

Anyway , thats just me , do continue your discussion about 13 year old girls haveing sex , a whole classroom.......................Im gone

 sanemax said..."I just get tired of reading about underage sex on TV " you might be watching it often.  I could say you are getting your rocks off by the way you are entertaining yourself by bagging those who are presenting positive suggestions to control under age sex and that you are seeking feed back and enjoy it?  With adult sex whatever, if it is by consent and there is no victim weather for love, or the need for a payment to feed the kids or just for money.  If both or more a happy and there is NO VICTIM what business is it of anyone else....Oh and sanemax "get out of the kitchen if you don't like the heat"

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39 minutes ago, David Walden said:

 I could say you are getting your rocks off by the way you are entertaining yourself ...

Is that really necessary?

 

Two users had different opinions about what should be mentioned and what not. That's about it.

Can we please agree that these two users, and probably others, agree to disagree?

Don't make a drama out of this!

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58 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Is that really necessary?

 

Two users had different opinions about what should be mentioned and what not. That's about it.

Can we please agree that these two users, and probably others, agree to disagree?

Don't make a drama out of this!

No! one user was bagging anther user for having an opinion.

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On 6/7/2018 at 1:08 PM, spidermike007 said:

Just some general thoughts on this fascinating topic:

 

I consider most sex workers in Thailand, to be far, far more honest than the average American woman. At least here, a man knows where he stands, if he wants sex with a woman. In a minute, you can determine exactly what it will require financially, and what you will get in return. In the US, it can take multiple dates, and countless dinners and gifts, to get to the precious zone. There is no set price. There is no knowing what it is going to take. Many of the women I have dated, have been with hundreds of men, in a similar way as many of the massage girls here. And those men have paid dearly. The only difference was that the price was not stated up front. 

 

I personally have known women who earn a million baht a year. I have known women who have had six boyfriends, who sent them a total of 100,000 baht per month. I also know a gal who worked in Singapore at a brothel. She was stunning. She earned 3 million baht cash, all clear, in 16 months. Took it all home. Build a gorgeous house, started a business, and is totally independent financially. To this day. That was several years ago. All good. Do not know how she relates to men at this point. And I doubt she will ever be capable of a healthy relationship, after 3,000 men or more, in my estimation. But, she did establish herself. I give her credit for that.

 

There is no doubt that the industry here is vast, and accounts for a significant amount of the GDP. I think that figure of 2% is pure nonsense. It is far higher. The authorities seem to be determined to slowly rid the country of the industry, to make way for the massive growth of Chinese tourism. If you have any doubts about that, just visit Samui or Phuket. They are pale shadows of their former selves, in terms of the industry, and available choices. It is just another in an incessant chain of bad decisions being made by this horrific and grossly incompetent administration. 

 

Unless, and until the young women are given better alternatives, the industry will continue. When a person decides to devote four years of their life, and a substantial sum of money, to attending a university, and then graduates, and is able to earn only 5,000 to 10,000 baht more than the one with no education at all, there is something wrong with the system. 

It is my contention that it depends on a few factors. The first and most important factor is how many? How many men has she been with? If she is relatively new, and has only gotten with between 20-200 men, more than likely she is still sane, and could possess a good heart. If she has gotten with over 200, the chances decrease. If over 500, harder for her to relate to men as decent human beings. Once you get to the "around the world level", where she has been with over 1,000 men, all bets are off. The heart hardens, and more than likely she is bitter for life. I am sure there are exceptions. But, the risk in getting involved with a highly experienced bar girl, or massage girl, is great.

 

With the exception of the men who are clever enough to hire a private detective to look into her background, and pay some real money to do it right, there is no way to know. They all have stories. And most of the stories are ones that they know we want to hear. So many times I have heard friends say,  "Oh no, she is new. She has only been working at the bar two weeks. I was her first customer. She worked in a factory before that. I could tell how innocent she was'. Yeah right!

 

For the men out there who are trying to find their way, in this rather complicated arena, always remember one thing. Take your time. If it is good, it is only going to get better. If there are issues, they are going to reveal themselves over time. 2 years minimum, before you commit large sums of cash, or commit to marriage. And that is two years, full time! Be like Bond. Do as Bond would do. Be a man. Man up. Now is the time to show who you are. 

And lastly, the one about getting along with the parents is a good one. Often, that is a sign of an emotionally healthy woman. When I used to date, the two questions I would ask were-

 

1. How is your relationship with your mom and dad? How about your siblings?

2. What is the most money you have ever spent on a handbag? Wow. Was that ever a revealing question. The answers were all over the map, but inevitably demonstrated alot about her character. 

You have an unhealthy obsession with James Bond Mike.... 

Do you drink martini shaken, not stirred? 

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On 1/25/2018 at 12:00 PM, spidermike007 said:

 

I disagree. Most of my friends have had several hundred women. Does that make them sluts? Probably. But a woman who has been with over 200 guys? She is simply an experienced gal. Alot of 25 year olds in the US have been with over 200 guys. Probably the same in Europe, Oz, and the UK. Alot of young women are experimental, and like to sleep around. I have spoken to many who admit to being with hundreds back home. It is the prudish mind of the men, who come up with these near virginal fantasies, for their women. Oh mine was only with three guys before me. Right. Nearly impossible. And my guess is closer to the high end. And who cares? Experienced women are great. I have no issues with that. None. 

Just watched a program on SBS TV in Aus about brothels in Berlin and many of the big cities in Germany.  The girls get about 50 euro per customer for about 10 min (short time).  The brothel owner gets about 33%, the girls get about 33%.  The local Govt taxes these girls about 33%.  The Govt calculates that reach girl will service about 20 short time customers each day.  Their tax payments should reflect this number of customers if they don't a please explain will be issued.  This must be about as dishonest as things can get.  Governments living off the earnings of prostitutes. Respectable upper class people get these benefits from these payments?

  I have nice friends who own bars in Thailand, I drink and socialise in these place often, I know most of the girls.  I buy the girls drinks sometimes.  I'm a bit to old to take up the offers they present but I do have a lot of fun with them, as people I just like them all (few exception).  Most of these girls a lucky to get a customer 3/4 times a week.  Their fee is usually Bt 3/400 bar fine and you settle on a fee for what is mostly about Bt1000/1500 for the night.  They are your lover for the night, if you treat them as such (as a lover) you will mostly likely want to increase the payment (TIP)and they will likely want to stay longer  with extras for free.  They'll even want to stay long term maybe.   When you see where they sleep up stairs at the Bar, about 4/5 to a room sometimes top to tail beds.  Is it any wonder if you treat them nice they don't want to go back to the bar, you do need a TV and WiFi in your room to keep them happy. ( A Thai girl without a phone or wifi is a tragedy).

  As with any financial arrangement that exists with all sorts of thing in life one can expect in any profession some people will steal from you or rip you off and many of us have had those experiences. Banks, car salesmen, investment advisers etc.

   In Thailand my experience is that "yes" there some "rip off bar girls"  but  on the scale of meeting honest people I would have to give the Bar Girls of Thailand 9.5 out of 10.

  Some people may call these girls prostitutes or hookers.  I always refer to them as "Comfort Girls' and there is no VICTIM.

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55 minutes ago, David Walden said:

Just watched a program on SBS TV in Aus about brothels in Berlin and many of the big cities in Germany.  The girls get about 50 euro per customer for about 10 min (short time).  The brothel owner gets about 33%, the girls get about 33%.  The local Govt taxes these girls about 33%.  The Govt calculates that reach girl will service about 20 short time customers each day.  Their tax payments should reflect this number of customers if they don't a please explain will be issued.  This must be about as dishonest as things can get.  Governments living off the earnings of prostitutes. Respectable upper class people get these benefits from these payments?

  I have nice friends who own bars in Thailand, I drink and socialise in these place often, I know most of the girls.  I buy the girls drinks sometimes.  I'm a bit to old to take up the offers they present but I do have a lot of fun with them, as people I just like them all (few exception).  Most of these girls a lucky to get a customer 3/4 times a week.  Their fee is usually Bt 3/400 bar fine and you settle on a fee for what is mostly about Bt1000/1500 for the night.  They are your lover for the night, if you treat them as such (as a lover) you will mostly likely want to increase the payment (TIP)and they will likely want to stay longer  with extras for free.  They'll even want to stay long term maybe.   When you see where they sleep up stairs at the Bar, about 4/5 to a room sometimes top to tail beds.  Is it any wonder if you treat them nice they don't want to go back to the bar, you do need a TV and WiFi in your room to keep them happy. ( A Thai girl without a phone or wifi is a tragedy).

  As with any financial arrangement that exists with all sorts of thing in life one can expect in any profession some people will steal from you or rip you off and many of us have had those experiences. Banks, car salesmen, investment advisers etc.

   In Thailand my experience is that "yes" there some "rip off bar girls"  but  on the scale of meeting honest people I would have to give the Bar Girls of Thailand 9.5 out of 10.

  Some people may call these girls prostitutes or hookers.  I always refer to them as "Comfort Girls' and there is no VICTIM.

What is wrong with legal prostitution and the fact that they should pay taxes like everybody else? These legal prostitutes must go regularly to the doctor, they can legally complain about abusive customers and the police is making sure things don't get out of control. I think that is a lot better than illegal uncontrolled or gangster controlled prostitution.

 

And looking at your prices in Thailand it seems you didn't get out much in the last 10 years.

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1 hour ago, David Walden said:

This must be about as dishonest as things can get.  Governments living off the earnings of prostitutes. Respectable upper class people get these benefits from these payments?

Governments live off the earnings of everyone else; why should prostitutes be given a free pass? They should be taxed just like everyone else. They are called "working women" because they are working.

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7 minutes ago, jackspade said:

Again accidental post.  I am trying to respond to a lengthy post by breaking up the quote into separate portions and the forum software keeps posting when I press return. What am I doing wrong?

Forum software doesn't allow multiple post/response/post/response  type responses.

 

Best way is to quote the bit that jerks your chain the most and respond to that. Saves bandwidth too.

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On 2/5/2018 at 6:34 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

I grew up far away from Asia and I liked about 1% of the "western" women. Mostly the slim and small once. And then I made holiday in  Thailand and discovered that most Thai women were in that category (25 years ago). That was definitely part of the reason to move to Thailand. It's nice to be surrounded by lots of beautiful women everyday just walking on the streets. And somehow it seems I am not the only guy who was influenced by those pretty slim and small women...

Butt... https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/thai-women-second-fattest-asia-according-thai-diabetes-association/

 

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Yes! I figured out how to manipulate the form and reply to multiple portions of a post!
 

On 6/7/2018 at 1:08 PM, spidermike007 said:

I have dated a few American women who have been with hundreds of men. I have also dated dozens of women who have been with fewer than 10 men. Just to be fair, America has many of both types.

 

On 6/7/2018 at 1:08 PM, spidermike007 said:

Sure, far, far more honest about the sexual transaction, which is the only transaction of interest with them. But honest about other things, like marriage, family, children, housing, and money? Not so sure. Granted, there are dishonest American women, but I wouldn't generalise Thai working women as being anything close to angelically honest in general.

 

On 6/7/2018 at 1:08 PM, spidermike007 said:

When a person decides to devote four years of their life, and a substantial sum of money, to attending a university, and then graduates, and is able to earn only 5,000 to 10,000 baht more than the one with no education at all, there is something wrong with the system. 

It is my contention that it depends on a few factors. The first and most important factor is how many? How many men has she been with? If she is relatively new, and has only gotten with between 20-200 men, more than likely she is still sane, and could possess a good heart. If she has gotten with over 200, the chances decrease. If over 500, harder for her to relate to men as decent human beings. Once you get to the "around the world level", where she has been with over 1,000 men, all bets are off. The heart hardens, and more than likely she is bitter for life. I am sure there are exceptions. But, the risk in getting involved with a highly experienced bar girl, or massage girl, is great.

 

I find that often from 725-750 men is where the greatest psychological shift occurs. However, there are others who estimate that greatest hardening of the heart occurs slightly later, from 815-835 men. Personally, I think once a woman is through 412 men, then adding extra zeros doesn't really affect anything.

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1 hour ago, jackspade said:

I find that often from 725-750 men is where the greatest psychological shift occurs. However, there are others who estimate that greatest hardening of the heart occurs slightly later, from 815-835 men. Personally, I think once a woman is through 412 men, then adding extra zeros doesn't really affect anything.

 

Some claim true pair bonding is impossible if she isn't a virgin, I'd say 5 and she's truely finished as LTR material.

700+? Holy Shit!

 

My personal rule, no hymen = no wedding ring.

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1 hour ago, jackspade said:

Governments live off the earnings of everyone else; why should prostitutes be given a free pass? They should be taxed just like everyone else. They are called "working women" because they are working.

The girls in Germany still do have to pay personal income tax out of their net 33% they receive, so if a "Comfort girl"  gets her 20 customers a day she might earn 1000 Euros gross,  the hangers on and Govt gets 66%, she then will need to pay income tax from her 33% maybe half, leaving her about 16.5% of her gross income.

   It is funny  85%  of the funds these girls generate from their services goes to providing lots of benefits for all those honest upper class wealthy people in the country (whats different for the last 10,000 years). 

    In Sydney Aus as is similar all over Aus living off the earnings of a prostitute is a very serious criminal offence.  This feature of our law allows girls who want to practice this profession to do so as long as they operate on their own, no pimps, brothels or "hangers on", they  usually get much of their business from the internet or through word of mouth or where ever.  The Aus tax man has a much better chance of getting his share from her profit and loss a/c it's just any other business.  You pay tax on your profits.

If these girls in Germany were paying tax the same as other German people well that would be OK but as usual they get ripped off.  This has been going on since time began...not likely to change soon especially in Germany.  Germany is now a magnet for much of Europe's prostitution and it's going gangbusters!  All is OK if you can show me the money...no such things in Thailand...Thailand is better.

  

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1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Some claim true pair bonding is impossible if she isn't a virgin, I'd say 5 and she's truely finished as LTR material.

700+? Holy Shit!

 

My personal rule, no hymen = no wedding ring.

As indicated in Germany on Aus SBS TV  girls are required to service 20 short time (10 min) customers a day in the short time brothels (hundreds now) at 50 euros each. That's about Bt 65,000 a day, just enough for a retirement visa in Thailand, could be more if their quick or good looking.  Now that means if the girls in Germany don't have any days off they can do more the 7300 a year.  According to you calculations they must be all stuffed in the head...in Germany that is?  Thailand is better only 4 a week? much more sane.

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On 7/27/2018 at 4:00 PM, sanemax said:

I do not get offended by guys jogging topless , I just find it quite unpleasant on the eye .

   I don't mind talking about sex , its just here on TV that seems to be a constant discussion .

   I do feel that peoples sex lives should be kept private and I have no desire to have a circle jerk with TV posters about what they did last night

At Bondi Beach in Sydney (Aus) it's quite common to see ladies doing the shopping in tiny bikinis and men walking around the shops with no shirts.  In Thailand Thais never do that and don't like it, even at Cha-am Beach, seldom ever happens with Thai men...I say when in Rome do as the Romans do!

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1 hour ago, David Walden said:

According to you calculations they must be all stuffed in the head...in Germany that is?  Thailand is better only 4 a week? much more sane.

4

The idea of using a western prostitute does not appeal to me in any way, never did and probably never will.

But Thai bar girls, I've hired many and often felt they were a gf rather than hired help. Western women always seemed to treat me in a cold and distant way, even the one I married for over 20 years, but hired Thai women always treated me in a warm and affectionate way. 

 

Maybe the Thai girls are just better at pretending than white girls.

But it's the warmth and affection I've always sought, not the sex, even if it was only a pretence.

 

I'm just glad I'm past all that now, MGTOW all the way.

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51 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The idea of using a western prostitute does not appeal to me in any way, never did and probably never will.

But Thai bar girls, I've hired many and often felt they were a gf rather than hired help. Western women always seemed to treat me in a cold and distant way, even the one I married for over 20 years, but hired Thai women always treated me in a warm and affectionate way. 

 

Maybe the Thai girls are just better at pretending than white girls.

But it's the warmth and affection I've always sought, not the sex, even if it was only a pretence.

 

I'm just glad I'm past all that now, MGTOW all the way.

Never truer words spoken.  Your talking about me now.

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1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Maybe the Thai girls are just better at pretending than white girls.

I think the BIG difference is that many Thai girls know it's their job (as wife or gf or short time) to make the guy feel good. It's like having important guest who visit, the idea it to make them comfortable in any way.

It seems many western women don't even know that concept. Many think any guy can be happy that she goes out with him at all. And somehow in the west lots of guys accept that situation - because there is no other option. Except of course to come to Thailand and enjoy the company of girls and women who know how to take care of them. And then no western women anymore.

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5 hours ago, NanLaew said:
5 hours ago, jackspade said:

Again accidental post.  I am trying to respond to a lengthy post by breaking up the quote into separate portions and the forum software keeps posting when I press return. What am I doing wrong?

Forum software doesn't allow multiple post/response/post/response  type responses.

Best way is to quote the bit that jerks your chain the most and respond to that. Saves bandwidth too.

You can select individual pieces of the text, and a little popup box says "Quote selection". You can do this repeatedly to respond to multiple points.

 

5 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Forum software doesn't allow multiple post/response/post/response  type responses.

As demonstrated with my post here.

 

5 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Best way is to quote the bit that jerks your chain the most and respond to that. Saves bandwidth too.

It is a little tedious, but it works just fine.

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18 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I think the BIG difference is that many Thai girls know it's their job (as wife or gf or short time) to make the guy feel good. It's like having important guest who visit, the idea it to make them comfortable in any way.

It seems many western women don't even know that concept. Many think any guy can be happy that she goes out with him at all. And somehow in the west lots of guys accept that situation - because there is no other option. Except of course to come to Thailand and enjoy the company of girls and women who know how to take care of them. And then no western women anymore.

True that. The biggest problem with the majority of western women, is that they are intimidated and scared of their femininity. They somehow think that by showing their feminine side, it makes them weak. As many of us know, quite the opposite is true. By refusing or being unable to demonstrate their feminine attributes, they are denying what makes them most appealing and attractive. If we wanted to date someone more masculine than we are, we would. My heart goes out to most western woman, as it seems to be a situation that is completely out of their control, and many seem lost, bitter and lonely. On the other hand, the willingness to manifest the dignity within femininity, is what makes many Asian women so appealing. I am grateful every day to be with an outstanding Thai woman, and not to have to endure what a high percentage of western men have to put up with daily, with their dull, witless, masculine, non affectionate, overly demanding, bossy, emasculating, tough, nasty, bitter, older, girlfriends of wives. 

 

Though I find a small percentage of western women to be attractive, once they open their mouths, or once I witness how they behave, that level of attraction goes right out the window. 

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22 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Some claim true pair bonding is impossible if she isn't a virgin, I'd say 5 and she's truely finished as LTR material.

700+? Holy Shit!

 

My personal rule, no hymen = no wedding ring.

Wow. So sorry to hear. I apply the same standard to my women, as I do to myself. I love women with experience. Sounds like you are intimidated by it, are deeply insecure about yourself, or have some fake Quaker notions about it. A virgin? How terribly boring. I prefer a woman with experience. No need for her to have been with 700 plus guys. But some experience is a good thing for both of us. True pair bonding is impossible if she is not a virgin? Where on earth did you hear that? Some Muslim fairy tale? A puritan poem? That is one of the most ridiculous and false notions I have ever heard about romance. I would say the opposite. Virgins are nothing but trouble. Experienced women are to be prized and cherished. 

 

Five and she is truly finished? Bizarre notions. False notions. A strange take on reality. Five and she is just getting started becoming a woman with experience, objectivity, and clarity about what she wants in life. Sorry to say, but with notions like you have, you are lost. Your opinions suggest that a woman is less of a woman if she has gotten busy with a dozen, or a hundred men in her life. Who are you to make that judgment? The same does not apply to you? I love, admire and respect a woman with sexual experience. Plus, she tends to be more fun. Get over yourself. 

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21 hours ago, David Walden said:

As indicated in Germany on Aus SBS TV  girls are required to service 20 short time (10 min) customers a day in the short time brothels (hundreds now) at 50 euros each. That's about Bt 65,000 a day, just enough for a retirement visa in Thailand, could be more if their quick or good looking.  Now that means if the girls in Germany don't have any days off they can do more the 7300 a year.  According to you calculations they must be all stuffed in the head...in Germany that is?  Thailand is better only 4 a week? much more sane.

What one earth can one do in ten minutes? That is bizarre. 

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34 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Wow. So sorry to hear. I apply the same standard to my women, as I do to myself. I love women with experience. Sounds like you are intimidated by it, are deeply insecure about yourself, or have some fake Quaker notions about it. A virgin? How terribly boring. I prefer a woman with experience. No need for her to have been with 700 plus guys. But some experience is a good thing for both of us. True pair bonding is impossible if she is not a virgin? Where on earth did you hear that? Some Muslim fairy tale? A puritan poem? That is one of the most ridiculous and false notions I have ever heard about romance. I would say the opposite. Virgins are nothing but trouble. Experienced women are to be prized and cherished. 

 

1

From The Institute of Family Studies,

 

"Women with 10 or more partners were the most likely to divorce, but this only became true in recent years;

Women with 3-9 partners were less likely to divorce than women with 2 partners; and,

Women with 0-1 partners were the least likely to divorce."

"The highest five-year divorce rates of all are associated with marrying in the 2000s and having ten or more premarital sex partners: 33 percent." 

 

https://ifstudies.org/blog/counterintuitive-trends-in-the-link-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability

 

I'm happy to spend a night with an slut experienced woman, but I choose not to marry one.

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5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

"Women with 10 or more partners were the most likely to divorce, but this only became true in recent years;

Women with 3-9 partners were less likely to divorce than women with 2 partners; and,

Women with 0-1 partners were the least likely to divorce."

From The Institute of Family Studies,

https://ifstudies.org/blog/counterintuitive-trends-in-the-link-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability

 

I'm happy to spend a night with an slut experienced woman, but I choose not to marry one.

That has not been my experience. And I tend to be wary of everything I read, and studies in general. And even less dependable than studies in general, is stuff you read on blogs. What is the source? What is their agenda? How solid is the information, etc. Depends on the source, the methodology of the questioning, etc. And divorce is not the only key. Alot stay married, out of tradition, fear of backlash from the family, community, faith, etc. And many are married, but miserable. Divorce rates are a minor factor. Fulfillment or happiness rates, I would say are far more important. 

 

Regardless, I much prefer experienced women. And I can say that from experience. They are far superior to women with little of no sexual experience. The whole concept of purity is vastly over rated, and means little to me. Purity of mind and heart is far different than the kind of purity you are referring to.

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