Thailand to declare war on plastic bags - by charging for them

Airbagwill · December 27, 2017

People still concentrating on supermarket/ convenience store bags which in a country like Thailand are a relatively small part of the problem.

Even a reduction in frequency of use is unlikely to have significant effect until disposal.....or rather storage ..... of plastics is properly organized.

The also need to address the using street vendors, rhot khen, etc.

Dumbastheycome · December 27, 2017

5 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

People still concentrating on supermarket/ convenience store bags which in a country like Thailand are a relatively small part of the problem.

Even a reduction in frequency of use is unlikely to have significant effect until disposal.....or rather storage ..... of plastics is properly organized.

The also need to address the using street vendors, rhot khen, etc.

It needs to start somewhere. Street vendors do not regularly purchase from convenience outlets but from bulk wholesale outlets which do not themselves provide plastic bags ! ( Makro as an example )

Plastics in the form of films are not an issue in terms of bulk.

Nor are they such an issue in terms of disposal than that in the still too common disposal systems of landfill that they are conveniently allowed to defeat the decomposition of contents by being left intact.

Currently the bulk of recyclable plastics globally in the multitudious forms derived from petrochemicals is in excess of demand for economically viable byproduct.

A major problem in that is the introduction of so called "bio degradable" plastics which is actually a misnomer for self disentegrating but not bio degraded compounds. Such compounds have been identified in creating environmental disturbances that in the long term are as serious if not more so than landfill issues.

Plastics in the film form of convenient disposal is a pollutant that needs to be expunged rapidly if not immediately !

That the general public has been deceived into the expectation that a plastic bag is a normal and viable part of every and any transaction is purely in the interests of the manufacturer and associated marketeers.

The sad reality is that on the part of the consumer who only requires 2 items is compelled to buy 10 in pre packaged sealed plastic format which is the dutifully presented in at least one plastic bag if not two to the satisfaction of the customer who as dutifully disposes of same to the ground sometime later could be solved quickly by introducing a prohibitive tax on the dispensors of plastic bags !

phuketjock · December 28, 2017

14 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

It needs to start somewhere. Street vendors do not regularly purchase from convenience outlets but from bulk wholesale outlets which do not themselves provide plastic bags ! ( Makro as an example )

Plastics in the form of films are not an issue in terms of bulk.

Nor are they such an issue in terms of disposal than that in the still too common disposal systems of landfill that they are conveniently allowed to defeat the decomposition of contents by being left intact.

Currently the bulk of recyclable plastics globally in the multitudious forms derived from petrochemicals is in excess of demand for economically viable byproduct.

A major problem in that is the introduction of so called "bio degradable" plastics which is actually a misnomer for self disentegrating but not bio degraded compounds. Such compounds have been identified in creating environmental disturbances that in the long term are as serious if not more so than landfill issues.

Plastics in the film form of convenient disposal is a pollutant that needs to be expunged rapidly if not immediately !

That the general public has been deceived into the expectation that a plastic bag is a normal and viable part of every and any transaction is purely in the interests of the manufacturer and associated marketeers.

The sad reality is that on the part of the consumer who only requires 2 items is compelled to buy 10 in pre packaged sealed plastic format which is the dutifully presented in at least one plastic bag if not two to the satisfaction of the customer who as dutifully disposes of same to the ground sometime later could be solved quickly by introducing a prohibitive tax on the dispensors of plastic bags !

I'm sorry , if you think Makro do not provide plastic bags then you do not use Makro very often or are

decidedly unobservant.

All of the locals and many expats, including myself, go straight to the veggie/fruit section to pick up

as many of the large plastic bags that they think they may need and pack their purchases in them at

the check out.

Have a look around you if you ever actually use Makro?

It is not a plastic bag issue it is a litter awareness education issue.

Dumbastheycome · December 28, 2017

8 hours ago, phuketjock said:

I'm sorry , if you think Makro do not provide plastic bags then you do not use Makro very often or are

decidedly unobservant.

All of the locals and many expats, including myself, go straight to the veggie/fruit section to pick up

as many of the large plastic bags that they think they may need and pack their purchases in them at

the check out.

Have a look around you if you ever actually use Makro?

It is not a plastic bag issue it is a litter awareness education issue.

Of course Makro provides plastic bags for loose items. But in the most part in a practical sense. Would you cope with unfrozen or frozen meat or fish or vegetables an alternative way? At end point of sale Makro does not multi bag purchased items.

And yes, it is a litter awareness issue.

And the quickest effective method to introduce some awareness is to make it cost ! By far the majority of plastic bags dispensed are an expected free unnessecary .

So if people such as yourself deliberately scab bags intended for loose product simply as a convenience then I question why you have any justifiable input in this topic.

And what do you do with the copius number of bags you scab for your personal convenience? Responsibly add them to a garbage bin ? Better than the usual release to the wind. But obviously not retain them for the next visit to Makro !

40 plus years ago I attained an Industrial Plastics Engineering Technology qualification. It was somewhat controversial at end because I was required to submit a "report" on my experience of the Plastics Industry.

In that report i submitted my opinion that it would eventuate that plastic films would become an issue.

At that time there was no simple reference to the wondrous internet so my submission was based on quite extensive research and reading from written material from library and industrial materials.

As a junior employee being given subsidized education I was called to Head Office and roundly chastized.

Not so strange now that that same issue has come forth as a reality because my report was based on prediction by people who knew even back then the hazard of this form of plastics. And that goes way beyond the issue of waste but much further into the long term concerns as to the introduction of insidious poisons in food by low grade toxic compounds which I can assure you is common.

I attained the qualification in conjuction with two others. The Plastics tech I abandoned thereafter.

I have no rancour as to your reply but I will say that I am in a position way beyond "looking around " at what happens at Makro. I frequent Makro very often in fact.

Makro may not issue multiple plastic bags as any consideration of the environmental issue but at last they do minimize it.

surangw · December 28, 2017

will the provide a receipt ?

or the money goes directly in someones pocket ?

sambum · December 28, 2017

31 minutes ago, surangw said:

will the provide a receipt ?

or the money goes directly in someones pocket ?

In the UK (from memory) the 5p per bag was included on the receipt. However TIT and therefore who knows?

Airbagwill · January 4, 2018

sing recycled plastic to build roads

think that again the Thai approach is too simplistic as it is with most of their problems with modernity.

Firstly they should be looking at how they dispose of garbage in general - this if done badly just allows plastic bags to fly off in the wind.

Secondly they should be giving serious thought to the various recycling technologies available.

It is no coincidence that up to 50% of industrial waste in Thailand is disposed of illegally.

I

Dumbastheycome · January 4, 2018

6 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

sing recycled plastic to build roads

think that again the Thai approach is too simplistic as it is with most of their problems with modernity.

Firstly they should be looking at how they dispose of garbage in general - this if done badly just allows plastic bags to fly off in the wind.

Secondly they should be giving serious thought to the various recycling technologies available.

It is no coincidence that up to 50% of industrial waste in Thailand is disposed of illegally.

I

It is true that Thailand has a need to seriously consider the rapid expansion of waste and plastic waste in general as a component factor of economic/industrial/consumer growth second only to Indonesia in S.E A.

A primary cause is the complete lack of education/information as to the impact of pollution in general.

Whereas there is a thriving industry in general recycling for almost all items the single most and extremely damaging ignored component is plastic film products in the form of plastic bags.

Simply because there exists no viable recyclable profit advantage which is the basis of any concern in this world.

Decomposing products which provide an illusion of biodegradable have actually added an insidious environmental disruption .

So sadly while Thailand insists on an xenophobic mentality while not so coincidentally pursuing a global pursuit of economic expansion it already faces the same global issues.

The excess of plastic packaging is slightly removed from the plastic carrier bag issue.

In the distribution of food product it is difficult to consider viable alternatives. Maybe not so for other items. But the bulk pollutive issue of carrier bags which do indeed often get caste to the wind could be solved by simply banning them outright.

If that could be achieved then progress on the reduction of plastic containment purely for excessive "added value" might be possible.

January 4, 2018

Oh about time! I often try to tell people here how we charge for the bag in the UK. Spoke to a friend in Kenya and theres a complete ban there and you can face a fine for using them. How on earth will they enforce this? Have they seen the local markets?

January 4, 2018

On 12/17/2017 at 7:28 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

It is about bloody time that this idea gets discussed and (hopefully!) implemented in Thailand; the sheer number of plastic bags in this country is both shocking and disgusting.

I am a figure of awe when I go to my local market, buy my stuff, then whip a used plastic bag out of my pocket for my purchase.

"GASP!" "Look at that!" "Wah!" "I didn't know you could do that!" "Double Wah!"

Make it five baht a bag, and watch the use of plastic bags plummet. Please.

I have the same experience.Always take a bag when shopping. I produce it with a flourish hoping to guilt trip others. I have become rather holier than thou here I'm afraid. I was using a couple of white computer bags until er'indoors said she wouldn't go shopping with me if I didn't get a bag for life as the computer bags were getting smelly!

xtrnuno41 · January 5, 2018

I got a plastic bag, it is now about 25 years old and every week i do my shopping with it. Also used it when going to beach and get things with me like drinks and towels and so on.

And if have to get something else, i also take with me a plastic bag (as i have more then 1 somehow got it, but solid and reusable) just plan to take it with me for what i want. Seldon i use throwable bag and if i have i reuse, aswell for taking it with me for second round. I hate to have a pile of plastic bags and have to throw them away(which i mostly cant, so make it less as possible) .

aussie11950 · January 10, 2018

On 17/12/2017 at 7:28 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

It is about bloody time that this idea gets discussed and (hopefully!) implemented in Thailand; the sheer number of plastic bags in this country is both shocking and disgusting.

I am a figure of awe when I go to my local market, buy my stuff, then whip a used plastic bag out of my pocket for my purchase.

"GASP!" "Look at that!" "Wah!" "I didn't know you could do that!" "Double Wah!"

Make it five baht a bag, and watch the use of plastic bags plummet. Please.

Bloody oath.

When I say no to a plastic bag and pull out one of my own (when I remember to bring one), they are shocked too!

Airbagwill · January 14, 2018

the more I look, the more I see there are alternatives to petrochemical plastics.

I imagine cost and mass production are hindrances and of course the political will.

With the EEC, Thailand and Prayuth sees this as a personal legacy project - is going to vastly increase the already huge petrochemical industry in Chonburi and Rayong provinces.

So what chance does a product like THIS have?

here i8s a company website for cassava bags...

http://www.avanieco.com/product/eco-bags

Another possible solution suitable for Thailand.....

https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/kenya-plastic-bags-banana-leaves-creative-hilda-ga/

Banana leaves - already a traditional wrapping in Thailand.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Airbagwill

Dumbastheycome · January 14, 2018

12 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

the more I look, the more I see there are alternatives to petrochemical plastics.

I imagine cost and mass production are hindrances and of course the political will.

With the EEC, Thailand and Prayuth sees this as a personal legacy project - is going to vastly increase the already huge petrochemical industry in Chonburi and Rayong provinces.

So what chance does a product like THIS have?

here i8s a company website for cassava bags...

http://www.avanieco.com/product/eco-bags

Another possible solution suitable for Thailand.....

https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/kenya-plastic-bags-banana-leaves-creative-hilda-ga/

Banana leaves - already a traditional wrapping in Thailand.

Banana leaves "used to be " traditional wrappings. Long supplanted by the convenience of plastic.

Now mostly limited to traditional steamed food items for special occasions.

But in Indonesia still used most commonly for street food wrapping unlike Thailand.

Dumbastheycome · January 14, 2018

12 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

the more I look, the more I see there are alternatives to petrochemical plastics.

I imagine cost and mass production are hindrances and of course the political will.

With the EEC, Thailand and Prayuth sees this as a personal legacy project - is going to vastly increase the already huge petrochemical industry in Chonburi and Rayong provinces.

So what chance does a product like THIS have?

here i8s a company website for cassava bags...

http://www.avanieco.com/product/eco-bags

Another possible solution suitable for Thailand.....

https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/kenya-plastic-bags-banana-leaves-creative-hilda-ga/

Banana leaves - already a traditional wrapping in Thailand.

The conversion of organic materials also involves processes which at end may result ina bio degradable product. But what information is provided as to the pollutive aspect in the creation of that product?

Toilet tissue is an example in that the industrial process the pollutive waste is significant. Same applies to almost any modern paper product.

Kieran00001 · January 26, 2018

On 12/17/2017 at 4:47 PM, xtrnuno41 said:

People ALLREADY paid for bag, now you have to pay extra. No shop will give for free, its in the price.

Thai dont have garbage cans and use the plastic bags for household garbage.

Thailand doesnt have a real system of garbage handling.

If they have , like on koh Samui, then it is broke and will not fix it. SO what happens? Its thrown in the Gulf, i cant explain otherwise why this year there was a big amount of garbage in the Gulf floating and 100 tons of garbage on Hua Hin beach.

Everywhere in THailand you see they make something, but no maintenance, so when its broke, its broke and no fix.

It breaks down again to dust in long time

But Thailand is not the only one with this problem, Indonesia (Bali) is also covered with garbage. Guess there are way more countries covered with plastic. Guess they also dump it int he ocean, as there are islands of plastic floating as big as the state of Texas.

It is government who lack to do something about it, as it costs.

If they would make water to drink out of the tap, you can by using RO systems and UV light fed by solar power, save

billions of plastic bottles used for drinking water.

Most people just get the RO water in the refillable 30L bottles, having your own system is ridiculous when you can get 30L for 9 baht.

harrry · January 26, 2018

Plastics a wonder material. We have global warming so we must all collect all the plastic bagss and other plastics we can, They can be used to make flood barriers to stop our cities being inundated.

ZeVonderBearz · January 26, 2018

Still getting my chewing gum in a plastic from 7/11, this new crack down clearly has not started yet. Convenient that there is no time frame mentioned in the article as it will never happen in this life or the next

Edited January 26, 2018 by ZeVonderBearz

Will E Vormer · January 26, 2018

Buy a sausage roll at starbucks and see the amount of unnecessary crap that comes with it..

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

xtrnuno41 · January 26, 2018

13 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

Most people just get the RO water in the refillable 30L bottles, having your own system is ridiculous when you can get 30L for 9 baht.

I dint say anyone should have his own system, you can have one system for whole city(ies). However you can have your own system.

Do you know what water you buy in the 30 ltr bottles? Who is checking it? Could be just plain city water with no filtering at all. Still many people buy the water bottles, specially tourists. You know how many tourists come to Thailand ? I believe it is 4 times the amount of people who live in Thailand. Make the calculation then.

elephant45 · January 27, 2018

Thais seem to have some bizarre obsession with the way things are packaged, wrapped. Its like some form of disrespect not get everything triple wrapped, all the straws, then poof there they go into the wind. The pride and conceit here of the individual is destroying or has already destroyed this country.

The school system is completely guilty. If they would take some time away form playing on their cell phones (teachers) and eating maybe they could teach the children something new that almost every other country in the world has adopted. Imagine India 1.3 billion people and no plastic bags. And many many other worse off countries have no plastic bags.

Dumbastheycome · January 27, 2018

17 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

I dint say anyone should have his own system, you can have one system for whole city(ies). However you can have your own system.

Do you know what water you buy in the 30 ltr bottles? Who is checking it? Could be just plain city water with no filtering at all. Still many people buy the water bottles, specially tourists. You know how many tourists come to Thailand ? I believe it is 4 times the amount of people who live in Thailand. Make the calculation then.

In the area I stay the water producers are indeed checked by the Thai Public Health Authority.

And now competition is very strong so producers are very careful to not be found to have contaminated water. Similar to ice producers. Problem with ice is not the production but the on handling which has been found to be a problem.

But the issue here is about plastic film bags which are an environmental disaster in progress unlike plastic water bottles which are generally recycled and even if not are not as damaging as bags.

Colabamumbai · January 27, 2018

18 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

I dint say anyone should have his own system, you can have one system for whole city(ies). However you can have your own system.

Do you know what water you buy in the 30 ltr bottles? Who is checking it? Could be just plain city water with no filtering at all. Still many people buy the water bottles, specially tourists. You know how many tourists come to Thailand ? I believe it is 4 times the amount of people who live in Thailand. Make the calculation then.

You are correct. I have purchased those sealed bottles to find them full of ants, and who knows what else is in the water. It may be cheaper at 10 or 12 Baht, whats a life worth. I refuse to buy them. The water could easily be drawn close to feces infected water.

Colabamumbai · January 27, 2018

I had a cloth bag that I take into stores taken from my motorcycle, but I don't think people knew what it was for. Surely they would not take it to a store when they can get a free bag to put their garbage in, before they through in on the soi.

Airbagwill · January 27, 2018

2 hours ago, Colabamumbai said:

You are correct. I have purchased those sealed bottles to find them full of ants, and who knows what else is in the water. It may be cheaper at 10 or 12 Baht, whats a life worth. I refuse to buy them. The water could easily be drawn close to feces infected water.

The producers a surprising well monitored.....your paranoia of faeces infected water shows little understanding of where they get the water from.

It's not more risky than any other purified water as it mostly comes from the same source.

I'm very careful about food poisoning and f related diseases....for instance I never clean.my teeth with tap water, but I've used the plastic dragons for nearly 20 years without noticeable I'll effects attributable to that source.

I would suggest any ants in the water are not linkeda to anythe potential fault in the purification processes.

wayned · January 27, 2018

I drink rain water run off from the roof. It flows into a guttering system on the back of the house into 12 Ongs. I have a pump that pumps water from one directly into a second faucet on the kitchen sink. The intake pipe is about 2/3 down into the tank and the only filtering is sediment sinking to the bottom. When the tank gets low I fill it from another tank using a submersion pump. The wat5er is also used to fill the tank for the house pump when the local water supply is off. 15 years ago it happened quite often, but I bought the village a new pump and it doesn't happen very often but the pressure is zilch since I'm the last house on the water line about 1 kilo,\meter from the supply tanks.!

rubik101 · December 11, 2018

11 December 2025! Good to see that all plastic bags now cost a small amount. Has it changed the behaviour of the Thai shoppers, do you think?

metisdead · December 18, 2018

An off topic post has been removed.

realenglish1 · December 19, 2018

This is the easy liberal way out Just charge for plastic bags and that will reduce the use.

Reality is we need to go to a biodegradable plant-based bag

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/05/this-plastic-bag-is-100-biodegradable-and-made-of-plants/

This solves the whole problem

Kieran00001 · December 19, 2018

9 hours ago, realenglish1 said:

This is the easy liberal way out Just charge for plastic bags and that will reduce the use.

Reality is we need to go to a biodegradable plant-based bag

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/05/this-plastic-bag-is-100-biodegradable-and-made-of-plants/

This solves the whole problem

It couldn't be less related to liberalism as it allows those with more money to avoid doing their bit, it would very much be a conservative way out.

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