Noisy bar in quiet neighbourhood, people moving out...

[jeab1980]

Just move job done. Let people enjoy themselfs if you don't like noise go live in the Jungle mind you would probably complain about the all night noise from the local monkey hang outs.

[mat999]

Thanks for most of the replies. I think the fact that the police have told a Thai family to move house is an indicator that this will not change easily and a farang who doesn't speak Thai who is a guest in this country probably doesn't have a chance of changing it. Going on social media would expose me, complaining to the Bangkok Police HQ would, I assume, get me passed along to the Chiang Mai police and maybe even to the local ones who profit from the bar.

 

We called the police last night and it went through to the tourist police instead of the local police. They acted all innocent and concerned and told me to visit their office today to tell police volunteers. I have already spoken with a farang police volunteer and he had one word for me; "move". 

 

Minutes after ending the call the police arrived, didn't get off their bike and very quickly sped off. Then the lady who runs the show was looking up and down the street for a while for whoever squealed on them. They had obviously been tipped off and told not to make it too loud. They rolled the shutter down 6 inches, a couple left then it quietened down a bit, but not enough. If it was just the drunk kids I might be more confident but there are some middle aged men drinking there and helping out in the day unofficially (e.g. taking the manager on their bike on errands) who have the filled out bodies and short hair of someone in the police force or army.

 

When the police go to a bar not far away they go in, cause trouble and eventually leave with some money a fine. The noisy place has a special relationship with the police, so I am going to throw the towel in and just forget about it. Otherwise I will just keep stressing, missing sleep and complaining (wasting my breath). 

 

The army option sounds interesting, but are they really likely to get involved with such a small thing? I can't stop thinking that the elderly Thai family may have lived there for many years before being forced to leave so surely they tried everything, other business owners on the street say nothing can be done and some neighbours refuse to comment on the situation. One Thai says they pay the police in their red letterbox hanging outside. I would like to take a dump in that box, but if I am throwing the towel in I am just going to do nothing.

 

Life is too short and I always say there is no point complaining about something unless it can lead to action. I will use ear plugs every night, or move to the other end of our building. The funny thing is I will usually be able to sleep through it- it was more a matter of principal for me, the injustice of the whole thing, like why should one lady get away with causing havoc in the neighbourhood.

 

I am now not going to let it enter my mind at night. l won't go out of my way to, but will just grab photos of these men I see connected, just in case I can find one later in a uniform.

Edited December 19, 2017 by mat999

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, punchjudy said:

go down and confront the bar owner and customers and let them know how you feel about this noise pollution.

You want him to end up dead or maimed?

[VocalNeal]

8 hours ago, chuang said:

Write to the PM.. 

Call the PM's/Army's toll free anonymous complaints number and get someone in Thai to complain, anonymously. 

[thaibeachlovers]

12 minutes ago, mat999 said:

Thanks for most of the replies. I think the fact that the police have told a Thai family to move house is an indicator that this will not change easily and a farang who doesn't speak Thai who is a guest in this country probably doesn't have a chance of changing it. Going on social media would expose me, complaining to the Bangkok Police HQ would, I assume, get me passed along to the Chiang Mai police and maybe even to the local ones who profit from the bar.

 

We called the police last night and it went through to the tourist police instead of the local police. They acted all innocent and concerned and told me to visit their office today to tell police volunteers. I have already spoken with a farang police volunteer and he had one word for me; "move". 

 

Minutes after ending the call the police arrived, didn't get off their bike and very quickly sped off. Then the lady who runs the show was looking up and down the street for a while for whoever squealed on them. They had obviously been tipped off and told not to make it too loud. They rolled the shutter down 6 inches, a couple left then it quietened down a bit, but not enough. If it was just the drunk kids I might be more confident but there are some middle aged men drinking there and helping out in the day unofficially (e.g. taking the manager on their bike on errands) who have the filled out bodies and short hair of someone in the police force or army.

 

When the police go to a bar not far away they go in, cause trouble and eventually leave with some money a fine. The noisy place has a special relationship with the police, so I am going to throw the towel in and just forget about it. Otherwise I will just keep stressing, missing sleep and complaining (wasting my breath). 

 

The army option sounds interesting, but are they really likely to get involved with such a small thing? I can't stop thinking that the elderly Thai family may have lived there for many years before being forced to leave so surely they tried everything, other business owners on the street say nothing can be done and some neighbours refuse to comment on the situation. One Thai says they pay the police in their red letterbox hanging outside. I would like to take a dump in that box, but if I am throwing the towel in I am just going to do nothing.

 

Life is too short and I always say there is no point complaining about something unless it can lead to action. I will use ear plugs every night, or move to the other end of our building. The funny thing is I will usually be able to sleep through it- it was more a matter of principal for me, the injustice of the whole thing, like why should one lady get away with causing havoc in the neighbourhood.

 

I am now not going to let it enter my mind at night. l won't go out of my way to, but will just grab photos of these men I see connected, just in case I can find one later in a uniform.

Some will try and say you have rights, can do something etc etc etc.

The truth is you have no rights, no recourse and anything you do will end up in tears for you.

You are new on TVF apparently, but there are many such threads on here over the years and my advice is always to move or put up with it. A mere farang will not win. Even a Thai will not win.

 

I don't know if double glazing is available in LOS, but if you can't move because you own the house and it just lost any resale value because of said bar, it would be worth installing.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, VocalNeal said:

Call the PM's/Army's toll free anonymous complaints number and get someone in Thai to complain, anonymously. 

If he's the only farang on the street it would be put down to him, even if he hadn't.

[wildewillie89]

1 hour ago, mat999 said:

The army option sounds interesting, but are they really likely to get involved with such a small thing? 

The army tribunal is exactly for that, small time things. It was introduced to free up the courts. Could be as something as small as a tiny rice mill in the backyard shed next door making a bit of noise and the army will sort it if the local officials cannot reach an agreement between the parties. 

The other reason why it is set up is that, depending on the location, local officials really can't do that much. To fine someone the Mayor must sign off on it and the police will action the fine. Usually a Mayor will not want to lose votes, or the police will see it as a small thing/or themselves are on the take...hence where the Army option comes in. The army will tear strips off the local officials if they cant provide evidence that they did their own investigation into the issue (the only place local officials are scared of), and will then form their own action of what will happen. 

Not to mention I think it is free of costs, and usually only takes a week or two (depending how busy the area is) for the case to be held. It is a good thing to use against the local officials not acting on these sorts of cases.

Farang have equal rights to Thais with these sorts of things (nuisance law). Many farang have complained in my area and their issues have been resolved. The only farang who say there is no rights are the farang who have never bothered finding out the actual rights available to them.  

Edited December 19, 2017 by wildewillie89

[wildewillie89]

If just renting or have no close Thai friends to guide you through the official systems, then sure, it will probably just be easier to move.

 

If own the property, then no way would I move for something so small that has a good chance to be fixed. Just take a Thai person with you to understand/guide you through the process. 

Personally, I would complain to the Public Health Department in your Tessaban first, as it is a noise/nuisance issue so comes under public health law. The particular law is something like Por Ror Bor Satharanasuk (manage noise issues). They will do their investigation to cover their <deleted>/plus the law says they have to at least investigate the complaint (or the army will kick them in the backside very hard). So mention that if they aren't sufficient then it will have to go to the army tribunal. The official will push the Mayor to fine the place, but it is possible they wont (votes). If police are on the take then they need to hope they have good relationships with the army tribunal also, as police being on the take means nothing to the army and the army will take great delight in showing them up.  

[peergin]

13 hours ago, wildewillie89 said:

If just renting or have no close Thai friends to guide you through the official systems, then sure, it will probably just be easier to move.

 

If own the property, then no way would I move ...[...]  the army tribunal

Could you please state the Army Tribunal's name in Thai? Thank you.

[JLCrab]

Chiang Mai is boring. This sounds like a slice of local non-tourist non-farang life. Thanks for the tip.

Edited December 19, 2017 by JLCrab

[wildewillie89]

1 hour ago, peergin said:

Could you please state the Army Tribunal's name in Thai? Thank you.

Soon Dham Rong Tham.

 

ศูนย์ดำรงธรรม 

 

It is within the same ministry of Tessabans and police (hence why deals with small problems not big enough for courts). Courts in a separate ministry. 

Edited December 19, 2017 by wildewillie89

[JLCrab]

Maybe the reason nothing has happened and just to complete the daisy-chain the bar is owned by ex-Army.

[wildewillie89]

If army, then send a letter with attached evidence to the actual general director of the Public Health Ministry, who is an official, not a politician. 

 

He will then tell the local officials to set specific times and if not followed/enforced then it's a lot of trouble for those officials. 

 

Even if ex-army by chance, would need to have some great friends in the army for nothing to happen. 

 

[JLCrab]

In Thailand, no matter how good is someone's connections, there is always someone with better connections.

[wildewillie89]

7 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

In Thailand, no matter how good is someone's connections, there is always someone with better connections.

Well if the proposed ex army bar owner has less connections than someone else, then that would help the OP then wouldn't it? Which was my point to begin with. So I say again, unless he has serious high ranking army friends, then being ex army is irrelevant if go down the proper process of doing something. 

[JLCrab]

It's a noisy bar late night in the Meuang district of Chiang Mai that a lot of people apparently have been told hands off.  Go figure.

[wildewillie89]

4 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

It's a noisy bar late night in the Meuang district of Chiang Mai that a lot of people apparently have been told hands off.  Go figure.

Been told hands off by police according to the OP? That is completely different from army, as previous poster have pointed out. They were able to pay off police, not army. 

[JLCrab]

Quote

Quote

 

So you are presuming that heretofore and before being alerted to the existence of said bar by a farang that the Army knows nothing about this bar?

[wildewillie89]

3 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

So you are presuming that heretofore and before being alerted to the existence of said bar by a farang that the Army knows nothing about this bar?

The local army may full well know about the bar, could even be on the take. But for the hundredth time, and it is the last time I say it, unless those people have some serious friends (ministry, assistant pm and pm office), then the official way would be the best way to go about it before making a rash decision to move (if own the place). There is no harm in taking that course of action for a small bar. 

 

You can chuck in as many hypotheticals as you want, but it is merely gossip so no point continuing it as it is not helping anyone. 

 

 

[JLCrab]

Thank you Joan of Arc.

[55Jay]

These "noise" stories induce some latent PTSD.  555!  I can definitely relate.

 

Our neighbor over the road in front, a retired school teacher, bought the land adjacent his house and knocked up a cheap, open air restaurant cum drinking place with a karaoke machine, and a few bungalows.  

 

Managed to rent it out to a Thai family from some other town, and they lived on site with load of young kids.  Day to day, it would start around 1500/1530 when the little monkeys returned from school and wanted to play sing-a-song.  3 hours of small kids "singing" in their monotone, off-key kid voices, punctuated by screaming into the microphone with the volume set to the "F You!" level.   Motorbike morons would show up later, often until 01-0200.  Mind you, this was a small, countryside town where you could hear a pin drop after 2000.

 

After several attempts and appeals for reason, we wound up calling the local BiB, not sure what, if anything, would happen.  To their credit (short lived), they came out in the dented pick up truck, chirped the siren and had them turn it down.

 

A few days later, they were at it again, even louder now, no doubt because we had, foolishly, involved the police.   On the phone with the local copper, he told my Mrs he was already in bed, too late, he wasn't coming.  Moreover, that he'd already told them once before to keep the noise down, and if they weren't going to listen to him, then what else could he do?  He actually said that. 

 

About 1 month later, the usually drunk husband of the bar maiden, brought his new, sexy young girlfriend around to have a look at "his" bar one night about 2300, with all his usual motorbike mates - some of which were the local drug dealers.   New girlfriend didn't go over well with Mamasan, and a Thai soap opera inspired domestic fight kicked off in the middle of the soi.  20 minutes of motorbikes revving up, screaming, pushing and shoving, our dogs going bonkers down at the gate.  And then they were gone, and never came back.

 

Business went off a cliff after that, and Lady Karaoke was reportedly into it with the loan sharks to make the incredible 10k/month rent.   One morning, I heard the strangest thing.  Nothing.  Specifically, absence of Karaoke Mom's shrill voice, shouting at the kids to get ready for school. 

 

They turned up a few days later, loaded a pick up truck with dirty laundry, pots and pans, and I was hoping they would nick the karaoke machine on the way out too!

 

And then they were gone, never saw them again. 

[Berkshire]

I hope the OP is not this guy....

 

 

[mike324]

The best is to film the action and post it online. Film the music being loud at 2am-6am to show it being illegal and police not doing anything about it, film young kids drunk and getting on their bikes with no helmet, film them doing all sorts of stuff such as throwing trash, etc etc. It would be also good to capture a police making the rounds at the bar past the closing time to show that the police is allowing the bar to open. There are various thai facebook pages where people post and share videos, send the links to the police (but not a good idea anymore since they will know its you, send the link to the noisy bar). 

 

The best is to make a viral video of you going berserk at 3am, yelling at the bar owners. That would definitely make the video go viral. But its not worth risking your livelihood.

[JLCrab]

He may go through all that has been suggested and regardless of the outcome and for whatever reason the landlord decides not to renew his lease on the apartment.

[Rhys]

Darn... sorry.. have to stick it out... or move

[canopy]

Why give up when help from the government is 4 button presses away? People who have used it have posted many positive experiences. I look forward to reading about yours.

 

Thai Government launches 1111 hotline to receive complaints from foreigners

 

[JLCrab]

If you read Post #1 it says that called the police have been called, the police have been visited, and the landlord has said that nothing can be done. Maybe the landlord wants that nothing be done.

 

So after going against the preference of the landlord, regardless of the results, the landlord might choose not to renew the lease when next due for renewal.

Edited December 21, 2017 by JLCrab

[sirmud63]

On 12/20/2017 at 7:34 AM, wildewillie89 said:

Been told hands off by police according to the OP? That is completely different from army, as previous poster have pointed out. They were able to pay off police, not army. 

thats not quite how it works. ill tell you what happens from first hand experiance , if you PM me ,ill even tell you the names of the cops.

a monthly payment of 30 000thb to these 2 cops, will buy you immunity from prossecution.

that means you wont be charged for any violations.

heres how it works. 

the army acts on any complaints recived and will raid the premises,and if violations found, will arrest the owner/manager.

they then hand you over to the cops for prossesing and they make out a report giving you the all clear.

small fine to cover the costs,  2000thb,and your free to go .

that happend twice in 6 months to me .

[wildewillie89]

42 minutes ago, sirmud63 said:

thats not quite how it works. ill tell you what happens from first hand experiance , if you PM me ,ill even tell you the names of the cops.

a monthly payment of 30 000thb to these 2 cops, will buy you immunity from prossecution.

that means you wont be charged for any violations.

heres how it works. 

the army acts on any complaints recived and will raid the premises,and if violations found, will arrest the owner/manager.

they then hand you over to the cops for prossesing and they make out a report giving you the all clear.

small fine to cover the costs,  2000thb,and your free to go .

that happend twice in 6 months to me .

A tiny minority of areas in Thailand may work like that, as they are considered 'special', so the police can do what they want, but I am not sure if the area the OP lives is part of those areas. 

Usually what happens is people do not follow the step by step process (many Thais don't even know what options are available to them). The biggest example of that is they complain to the police, rather than the Tessaban who deal with public health law (ie noise complaints). The tribunal is exactly what a tribunal is, evidence is provided and a violation is found or not found, not so much raids. 

Most areas of the country (with the current political climate) are controlled by the army. As a previous poster wrote with his restaurant about noise complaints, his experience was able to pay police off, but not the army. 

If the OP issue is purely noise complaints, then the army tribunal will contact the Tessaban. The Tessaban must act as the army have told them to (whereas before the Mayor would probably not act out of fear of losing votes/or even on the take themselves). The Tessaban will tell the police to fine the bar. If the police refuse to administer the fine the Tessaban has told them to do (as they are on the take), then the Tessaban official has to contact the Governor. Under public health law, the Governor is allowed to administer the fine the police should have to the bar. 

Even if the local official or Governor is also on the take so does not fine the bar, they will at least take care of the noise. As if they do not, and the party has gone through the proper means of doing things (army tribunal has found the place to be a violation), then the offical and Governor will be found not to be sufficient at their job and end up in a real court (so they will at least stop the noise out of fear of losing their jobs). 

*A note on the tribunal evidence that will be provided. Local Tessaban officials must attend the bar (whether day or night) and use a noise measuring device. If it's over what the law permits, the Tessabarn will a letter to tell the bar to manage the noise within 7-15 days or 30 days. If the bar does not fix or do not follow the law  then they get punished via public health law item 28 "jail not over 3 months or fine 25,000 baht or both". If the Tessaban worker does not provide this evidence, or if it doesn't match the the OP evidence, then the tribunal will ask the Tessaban why. Local Tessaban officials are scared of the army tribunal for this very reason (why it was a good introduction to the country).

Edited December 21, 2017 by wildewillie89

[sirmud63]

10 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

A tiny minority of areas in Thailand may work like that, as they are considered 'special', so the police can do what they want, but I am not sure if the area the OP lives is part of those areas. 

Usually what happens is people do not follow the step by step process (many Thais don't even know what options are available to them). The biggest example of that is they complain to the police, rather than the Tessaban who deal with public health law (ie noise complaints). 

Most areas of the country (with the current political climate) are controlled by the army. As a previous poster wrote with his restaurant about noise complaints, his experience was able to pay police off, but not the army. 

If the OP issue is purely noise complaints, then the army tribunal will contact the Tessaban. The Tessaban must act as the army have told them to. The Tessaban will tell the police to fine the bar. If the police refuse to administer the fine the Tessaban has told them to do (as they are on the take), then the Tessaban will contact the Governor. Under public health law, the Governor is allowed to administer the fine the police should have to the bar. 

Even if the Governor is also on the take so does not fine the bar, they will at least take care of the noise. As if he doesn't, and the party has gone through the proper means of doing things (army tribunal has found the place to be a violation), then the Governor will be found not to be sufficient at their job and end up in a real court (so they will at least stop the noise out of fear of losing their job). 

uummmm, that was my post about  my restaurant, and is not a minority area.  loi kroh rd to be precise.

one would be pretty nieve to think im the only one in the city to do this, i know a lot of bar owners that do the same .

as for the rest of your post ,yes , they are the correct chanels to go thru , but ,  corruption here runs very deep , as you know .