After U.S. veto, U.N. General Assembly to meet on Jerusalem status

[webfact]

After U.S. veto, U.N. General Assembly to meet on Jerusalem status

By Michelle Nichols

 

FILE PHOTO: The United Nations logo is pictured in front of the United Nations Headquarters building during the 71st United Nations General Assembly in the Manhattan borough of New York, U.S., September 22, 2016. REUTERS/Carlo Allegri

 

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - The 193-member United Nations General Assembly will hold a rare emergency special session on Thursday at the request of Arab and Muslim states on U.S. President Donald Trump's decision to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

 

Palestinian U.N. envoy Riyad Mansour said the General Assembly would vote on a draft resolution calling for Trump's declaration to be withdrawn, which was vetoed by the United States in the 15-member U.N. Security Council on Monday.

 

The remaining 14 Security Council members voted in favour of the Egyptian-drafted resolution, which did not specifically mention the United States or Trump but which expressed "deep regret at recent decisions concerning the status of Jerusalem."

 

Mansour said on Monday he hoped there would be "overwhelming support" in the General Assembly for the resolution. Such a vote is non-binding, but carries political weight.

 

U.S. Ambassador Nikki Haley, in a note on Twitter, warned the United States would remember those who voted for the resolution criticizing the U.S. decision.

 

"At the UN we're always asked to do more & give more. So, when we make a decision, at the will of the American ppl abt where to locate OUR embassy, we don't expect those we've helped to target us. On Thurs there'll be a vote criticizing our choice. The US will be taking names," she wrote.

 

Under a 1950 resolution, an emergency special session can be called for the General Assembly to consider a matter "with a view to making appropriate recommendations to members for collective measures" if the Security Council fails to act.

 

Only 10 such sessions have been convened, and the last time the General Assembly met in such a session was in 2009 on occupied East Jerusalem and Palestinian territories. Thursday's meeting will be a resumption of that session.

 

Trump abruptly reversed decades of U.S. policy this month when he recognised Jerusalem as Israel's capital, generating outrage from Palestinians and the Arab world and concern among Washington's western allies.

 

Trump also plans to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv. The draft U.N. resolution calls upon all countries to refrain from establishing diplomatic missions in Jerusalem.

 

Haley said on Monday that the resolution was vetoed in the Security Council in defence of U.S. sovereignty and the U.S. role in the Middle East peace process. She criticized it as an insult to Washington and an embarrassment to council members.

 

Israel considers Jerusalem its eternal and indivisible capital and wants all embassies based there. Palestinians want the capital of an independent Palestinian state to be in the city's eastern sector, which Israel captured in a 1967 war and annexed in a move never recognised internationally.

 

(Reporting by Michelle Nichols; Editing by Susan Thomas and David Gregorio)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-12-20

[hawker9000]

The U.N. has absolutely nothing to say about what a sovereign nation chooses to recognize or not recognize.   Issues of sovereign right have never been the U.N.'s strong suit, but even after 72 years, these jobsworths still don't get it. They've got precious little to say about China annexing half the western Pacific, or N. Korea threatening global nuclear war, but want to scream and holler and stamp their designer footwear about a country recognizing another country's choice of capital city.  FPS just cut the cord on this circus.  They are not anybody's "best hope"; instead they're a complete waste of time, attention and resources.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, hawker9000 said:

The U.N. has absolutely nothing to say about what a sovereign nation chooses to recognize or not recognize.   Issues of sovereign right have never been the U.N.'s strong suit, but even after 72 years, these jobsworths still don't get it. They've got precious little to say about China annexing half the western Pacific, or N. Korea threatening global nuclear war, but want to scream and holler and stamp their designer footwear about a country recognizing another country's choice of capital city.  FPS just cut the cord on this circus.  They are not anybody's "best hope"; instead they're a complete waste of time, attention and resources.

 

 

 

There certainly does seem to be a high degree of selectivity in who they criticize and what for.

 

China can brutally occupy Tibet, and simply decide to extend it's maritime borders, building military bases outside it's international lawful borders, and no one comments. Russia seizes Crimea from Ukraine (who arguably were gifted in 70 odd years ago by the then Soviet dictator), interferes in Ukraine including military operations and not much comment. Just like when the bullied Georgia. 

 

But Trump delivers on an election promise, the same election promise three previous POTUS failed to deliver on, and the is this outcry.

 

It seems the pandering to the Muslim world has become PC at the UN. Look at the attention being given to this and the Rohingya issue compared to other issues around the world.

 

Is it US bashing or Muslin pandering? Or a combination that's become the PC thing to do?

[dexterm]

13 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

The U.N. has absolutely nothing to say about what a sovereign nation chooses to recognize or not recognize.   Issues of sovereign right have never been the U.N.'s strong suit, but even after 72 years, these jobsworths still don't get it. They've got precious little to say about China annexing half the western Pacific, or N. Korea threatening global nuclear war, but want to scream and holler and stamp their designer footwear about a country recognizing another country's choice of capital city.  FPS just cut the cord on this circus.  They are not anybody's "best hope"; instead they're a complete waste of time, attention and resources.

 

 

Sure US is a sovereign nation, and a very important powerful one. As such it should not be acting illegally, because Israel is not sovereign over Jerusalem. By international law it is illegally occupying it. The UNGA will be confirming this on Thursday. I hope the USA listens when friends point out that the US and Israel are out of line.

[dexterm]

20 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

There certainly does seem to be a high degree of selectivity in who they criticize and what for.

 

China can brutally occupy Tibet, and simply decide to extend it's maritime borders, building military bases outside it's international lawful borders, and no one comments. Russia seizes Crimea from Ukraine (who arguably were gifted in 70 odd years ago by the then Soviet dictator), interferes in Ukraine including military operations and not much comment. Just like when the bullied Georgia. 

 

But Trump delivers on an election promise, the same election promise three previous POTUS failed to deliver on, and the is this outcry.

 

It seems the pandering to the Muslim world has become PC at the UN. Look at the attention being given to this and the Rohingya issue compared to other issues around the world.

 

Is it US bashing or Muslin pandering? Or a combination that's become the PC thing to do?

I agree, but two wrongs don't make a right. Whataboutery is a deflection from addressing the point in the OP : After U.S. veto, U.N. General Assembly to meet on Jerusalem status.

 

Israel, which aspires to be a democracy, is savable. The US and Israel should listen when real friends point out they are currently behaving very badly

 

The rest of your post descends into the usual Islamophobic rant.

 

 

[dexterm]

Nikki Haley, has threatened that the United States “will be taking names” of those who vote against the US. And then what? Declare war on them. Stop trading with them. Some diplomat! Looks like the whole US admin has now descended to schoolyard bully tactics. 

What an atrocious way to talk to those who stand on the side of international law.
It's like taking the names of all your friends at the bar who tell you you're too drunk to drive and try to take your keys. That'll teach 'em!

 

It may be far easier to write down the names of those who vote with you, Nikki.

 

Listen up when your real friends are trying to tell you something.
 

Edited December 20, 2017 by dexterm

[retarius]

Reverse this illegal decision by the US. The US signed onto Jerusalem being an international, military free city decades ago along with the rest of the UN. Once again they renege on an agreement. Who can possibly trust these Americans? They are seriously lacking in any honor.

[roobaa01]

1. thanking u donald for making israel great again.

 

2. 1948 jordan occuppied jerusalem but never made it jordan's capital.

 

3. since the time of king david 1000 bc jerusalem has been our capital

 

4. 4 former us presidents promised to acknowledge jerusalem capital of israel.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[chilli42]

I guess they figure when paying 22% of operating expenses and 28% of the peace keeping budget that countries on a free ride should be falling into line.  Guess you can’t even buy loyalty these days.  

[Thaidream]

The US UN Ambassador speech was demeaning and she is speaking as Trump the Second -meaning without any real education or diplomatic tone   JUst because a country has given much in the way of monetary assistance to various other countries does not give the US the right to chastise the rest of the World because the US doesn't agree with UN mandates for Jerusalem.  And then to state the US is taking names when the General Assembly votes is so childish it is laughable.

Trump's foreign policy is based upon the alt right philosophy the might makes right. As an American, I am saddened and disgusted by this shift to  the extreme. These type of speeches and policy do nothing for peace.

As one poster said- the US needs to listen to it friends and I might add  while it still has friends.

[roobaa01]

talking heads and simple minds have conducted peace talks for 40 years to no avails and trump puts an effective end to that nonsense. the problem was, is, will be islam in this case barbarian hamas terrorists.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[hawker9000]

3 hours ago, dexterm said:

Sure US is a sovereign nation, and a very important powerful one. As such it should not be acting illegally, because Israel is not sovereign over Jerusalem. By international law it is illegally occupying it. The UNGA will be confirming this on Thursday. I hope the USA listens when friends point out that the US and Israel are out of line.

Was it "legal" for China to annex the entire S. China Sea?  The International Court said no, and the UN does absolutely nothing.  Does Kim Jong Un take UN resolutions over his nuclear program at all seriously?  Obviously not.  So they can just take the rest of their dues-sucking Big Top act and stuff it.  The UNGA does NOT "make" international law.  It merely passes resolutions based on what each self-serving member nation WANTS international law to be, which individual nations, such as China for example, then ignore, and wingnuts try and obsess over.  The US and Israel are certainly not out of line simply because the UNGA, largely a collection of otherwise unemployable nobs to begin with, says so!  LOL

 

They are not an elected body and have no constitutionally based jurisdiction whatsoever over me or my fellow citizens, or over Israel and Israel's citizens, or over anyone apparently.  They get together to rant and posture over their own country's interests, find new and ever better ways to waste money, and that's about it.

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by hawker9000

[spidermike007]

Just another example of the circus huckster, deflector in chief, making his country a pariah. He has alienated so many countries, peoples, and races, and is diminishing the role of the US, in the world, daily. Maybe that is a good thing. Just wait until he needs some help from any of these nations. 

 

Donald Trump - making American less significant, less prosperous, and less influential by the day. And lowering the quality of life for the average American. Way to go Don. Keep obeying your lobbyists. Keep populating the swamp with bankers and more Wall Street advisors. 

[dexterm]

1 hour ago, hawker9000 said:

Was it "legal" for China to annex the entire S. China Sea?  The International Court said no, and the UN does absolutely nothing.  Does Kim Jong Un take UN resolutions over his nuclear program at all seriously?  Obviously not.  So they can just take the rest of their dues-sucking Big Top act and stuff it.  The UNGA does NOT "make" international law.  It merely passes resolutions based on what each self-serving member nation WANTS international law to be, which individual nations, such as China for example, then ignore, and wingnuts try and obsess over.  The US and Israel are certainly not out of line simply because the UNGA, largely a collection of otherwise unemployable nobs to begin with, says so!  LOL

 

They are not an elected body and have no constitutionally based jurisdiction whatsoever over me or my fellow citizens, or over Israel and Israel's citizens, or over anyone apparently.  They get together to rant and posture over their own country's interests, find new and ever better ways to waste money, and that's about it.

 

 

 

Learn to read more carefully. I wrote I agree with you re your condemnation of the other illegal land grabbers. And I will gladly condemn those colonialists too if the topic setters bring up the subject. But two wrongs don't make a right in the present topic which concerns Jerusalem.

 

[dexterm]

1 hour ago, roobaa01 said:

talking heads and simple minds have conducted peace talks for 40 years to no avails and trump puts an effective end to that nonsense. the problem was, is, will be islam in this case barbarian hamas terrorists.

 

wbr

roobaa01

>> talking heads and simple minds have conducted peace talks for 40 years to no avails and trump puts an effective end to that nonsense.

...what?.. puts an effective end to peace talks. Yep he certainly has...his own ....supposed to be fielding his "ultimate deal" next month.

 

Unless of course he responds to the UNSC vote and probable UNGA result on Thursday, and qualifies his reckless announcement saying he only recognizes West Jerusalem as Israel's capital and East Jerusalem as Palestine's.

Edited December 20, 2017 by dexterm

[roobaa01]

unfortunately unesco instigated a routinely political nonsense every six month voting on jerusalem having no cultural etc..affiliation to israel.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[DaddyWarbucks]

The US and Israel could be miscalculating badly.

Anything involving Jerusalem itself, and above all its Muslim holy sites, has a much bigger impact than events taking place elsewhere.

The immediate consequence of Trump's action is that the US becomes weaker because it has carried out another initiative of which the rest of the world disapproves overwhelmingly. A superpower at the height of its strength might get away with such a demarche, but not a politically divided US, its influence already ebbing because of failures in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria. The move is so obviously against US foreign policy interests that it will further persuade other world leaders that Trump is an impossible ally. Look at the recent UNSC vote.

The move could have other dangerous consequences. There is a myth that the Israeli-Palestinian struggle was not an issue that concerned Osama bin Laden or played a role in the rise of al-Qaeda. In fact, bin Laden's speeches and writings are full of references to the Palestinians - and his first public utterances in the 1980s were calls for a boycott of American goods because of its backing for Israel.

The connection between the Palestinian question and 9/11 was played down at the time, particularly by pro-Zionist neocons and think tanks who claimed that the US could safely ignore the issue while pursuing an aggressive policy in Iraq while avoiding a backlash against the Israel lobby. But as the wars in Iraq and Syria come to an end, focus will shift back to Israel and the Palestinians. The declaration on Jerusalem throws al-Qaeda a lifeline just as they are facing complete defeat. It will make it easier for Tehran to call for all Muslims, Shia and Sunni, to stand together in defense of the Palestinians and the holy sites.

This declaration is a farce. Trump, Kushner, and Friedman aren't even pretending to be "honest brokers". Instead, they're playing to their core constituencies and financial backers - the Christian Zionists with their "end times" apocalyptic obsession with Jews and Jerusalem, and the Jewish Zionist Right who have not the slightest intention of ever allowing Palestinian self-determination.

 

 

 

[wwest5829]

"At the UN we're always asked to do more & give more. So, when we make a decision, at the will of the American people about where to locate OUR embassy, we don't expect those we've helped to target us. On Thursday there'll be a vote criticizing our choice. The US will be taking names," she wrote.

 

Consistent with the outlook of "The Golden Rule". No, not "do unto others" ... I mean "he who has the gold makes the rules". It is the same for us domestically which you can see in action with the current Republican tax bill, now in the Senate. Furthering the wealth gap, increasing the debt by $1.46 trillion. Next act? Go after social programs. The largest discretionary spending ? The military. Cut there...no way! We have to maintain military strength as more and more poor cause the US to need to defend its actions ... Refer back to the quote. By the way...these people do not speak for this American nor the majority who voted for others in the Presidential election (or did not vote). I support condemning this unilateral action by the current US administration.

[dexterm]

25 minutes ago, DaddyWarbucks said:

The US and Israel could be miscalculating badly.

Anything involving Jerusalem itself, and above all its Muslim holy sites, has a much bigger impact than events taking place elsewhere.

The immediate consequence of Trump's action is that the US becomes weaker because it has carried out another initiative of which the rest of the world disapproves overwhelmingly. A superpower at the height of its strength might get away with such a demarche, but not a politically divided US, its influence already ebbing because of failures in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria. The move is so obviously against US foreign policy interests that it will further persuade other world leaders that Trump is an impossible ally. Look at the recent UNSC vote.

The move could have other dangerous consequences. There is a myth that the Israeli-Palestinian struggle was not an issue that concerned Osama bin Laden or played a role in the rise of al-Qaeda. In fact, bin Laden's speeches and writings are full of references to the Palestinians - and his first public utterances in the 1980s were calls for a boycott of American goods because of its backing for Israel.

The connection between the Palestinian question and 9/11 was played down at the time, particularly by pro-Zionist neocons and think tanks who claimed that the US could safely ignore the issue while pursuing an aggressive policy in Iraq while avoiding a backlash against the Israel lobby. But as the wars in Iraq and Syria come to an end, focus will shift back to Israel and the Palestinians. The declaration on Jerusalem throws al-Qaeda a lifeline just as they are facing complete defeat. It will make it easier for Tehran to call for all Muslims, Shia and Sunni, to stand together in defense of the Palestinians and the holy sites.

This declaration is a farce. Trump, Kushner, and Friedman aren't even pretending to be "honest brokers". Instead, they're playing to their core constituencies and financial backers - the Christian Zionists with their "end times" apocalyptic obsession with Jews and Jerusalem, and the Jewish Zionist Right who have not the slightest intention of ever allowing Palestinian self-determination.

 

 

 

Excellent post. Thank you for pointing out how the reckless Jerusalem Trump recognition supposedly "in the best interests of both the United States and the pursuit of peace between Israel and the Palestinians."
http://www.ejpress.org/article/Full-text-of-President-Trump-s-proclamation-recognizing-Jerusalem-as-the-capital-of-the-State-of-Israel-and-relocating-the-United-States-Embassy-to-Israel-to-Jerusalem/23742

 

.......is anything but that! It's another of his alternative facts.

[Thaidream]

As the poster Daddy pointed out very well Trump is again playing to his base and he is also being manipulated by the alt right who believes that might makes right.  There is no logical reason why Trump should ignore his cabinet members to include Tillerson and Mattis who advised against such a move.  The Un Security Council voted 14-1  against the United States and soon the General Assembly will vote almost unanimously against Israel  and the United States.

If Trump really wanted to push the peace process forward- he would tell the Israeli PM in no uncertain terms to stop building settlements in disputed territories and if they don't comply the US will start cutting aid.  In addition, the US should be assisting the Palestinians and Israeli's to move towards a settlement. The issue of Jerusalem can be settled if  the protagonists really want peace but someone needs to nudge them forward.

Trump's actions on this put the World at risk as he is giving more reasons to Al Qaeda and the Islamic State to recruit jihadists who will then bring more havoc to Europe and America/ All this to put Trump in a position-in his own mind to think he will be re-elected. The height of arrogance and frankly megalomania at its worst.

[Grouse]

I do hope the American/Israeli/Saudi axis are heading for an almighty fall. Such is the just desserts of hubris. Maybe nemesis is just around the corner?

Edited December 20, 2017 by Grouse

[Morch]

9 hours ago, dexterm said:

I agree, but two wrongs don't make a right. Whataboutery is a deflection from addressing the point in the OP : After U.S. veto, U.N. General Assembly to meet on Jerusalem status.

 

Israel, which aspires to be a democracy, is savable. The US and Israel should listen when real friends point out they are currently behaving very badly

 

The rest of your post descends into the usual Islamophobic rant.

 

 

 

And not surprisingly, you are also all for the opposite point of view (that two wrongs do make a right), when it suits whatever angle you push at a given moment. That you do not consider the destruction of Israel a wrong, does not change that.

 

As for whataboutery being a deflection - guess that does not apply to all that times when Palestinian transgressions and wrongs are discussed, only to be explained away by referring to whatever supposed Israel or American sin. Same double standards of "debate", there. In all them words of yours about Israel and  the USA not living up to related UN resolution, there is no similar criticism of the Arab/Palestinian side rejection of the core resolution and failing to comply or to accept it for decades. Similarly, not a whole lot by way of criticism over Jordan's occupation and annexation.

 

Not that your opinion is much of a standard when it comes to measuring democracies, but Israel is still one, whether you like it or not. Most of the world does not share your extreme views and pronunciations on this front. And in the same vein, even if your were an authority on "saving" countries, doubt that your fantasies with regard to Israel could be defined as anything to do with "saving".

 

Raising a question about pandering to Muslims possibly being an element in UN agendas and votes is not an "Islamophobic rant". Coming from someone incessantly posting one-sided vehement rants and tirades focusing on a single issue, that's rather rich.

 

[Morch]

8 hours ago, retarius said:

Reverse this illegal decision by the US. The US signed onto Jerusalem being an international, military free city decades ago along with the rest of the UN. Once again they renege on an agreement. Who can possibly trust these Americans? They are seriously lacking in any honor.

 

Not to sure who the call to "reverse" the decision is directed at. The UN lack both the authority and the power to do so. The Trump administration is unlikely to take heed. So other than venting, a reversal is probably not in the cards any time soon.

 

And to point some facts again - no, not all UN members were in favor. Some voted against, rejected it out right, and went to war in order to affect a "reversal". Guess no forthcoming moans about that, complaints of "reneging on agreements", nor high words about "trust" and "honor". 

[Morch]

6 hours ago, roobaa01 said:

talking heads and simple minds have conducted peace talks for 40 years to no avails and trump puts an effective end to that nonsense. the problem was, is, will be islam in this case barbarian hamas terrorists.

 

wbr

roobaa01

 

Trump put an effective end to what? And what do you imagine comes next?

[Morch]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Just another example of the circus huckster, deflector in chief, making his country a pariah. He has alienated so many countries, peoples, and races, and is diminishing the role of the US, in the world, daily. Maybe that is a good thing. Just wait until he needs some help from any of these nations. 

 

Donald Trump - making American less significant, less prosperous, and less influential by the day. And lowering the quality of life for the average American. Way to go Don. Keep obeying your lobbyists. Keep populating the swamp with bankers and more Wall Street advisors. 

 

Trump's reign is certainly bad news for the USA. We do not disagree about that. Where we part ways is when the hyperbole kicks in. The USA is not a pariah (posters tend to toss that about quite a bit), nor about to become one. That what passes for Trump's "policies" hurts the USA's international standing is sadly true, though. 

 

Further, while some posters may feel strongly about this or that issue, most countries and governments are somewhat more calculated in their takes and reactions. And, of course, not all place the same value as posters do on each instance of Trump's buffoonery. I do not think that all, most or even many of the countries voting against the USA's position, either on the UNSC or the UNGA, will blatantly deny the USA's requests based on this instance alone. More like an process eroding willingness to cooperate and support, but again - within realistic constrains and practical limits.

 

 

 

 

[Morch]

5 hours ago, dexterm said:

Learn to read more carefully. I wrote I agree with you re your condemnation of the other illegal land grabbers. And I will gladly condemn those colonialists too if the topic setters bring up the subject. But two wrongs don't make a right in the present topic which concerns Jerusalem.

 

 

There were numerous topics dealing with such issues (Ukraine and the South China Sea are but two prominent recent examples). Can't recall you commenting as vehemently or prolifically on either. More chances of your gracing topics with your vehemence if the reference supposed Western sins, or wrongs done unto Muslims. 

 

If one is familiar with your posts, than two wrongs do make a right - at least with regard to some issues.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Morch

[Morch]

5 hours ago, dexterm said:

>> talking heads and simple minds have conducted peace talks for 40 years to no avails and trump puts an effective end to that nonsense.

...what?.. puts an effective end to peace talks. Yep he certainly has...his own ....supposed to be fielding his "ultimate deal" next month.

 

Unless of course he responds to the UNSC vote and probable UNGA result on Thursday, and qualifies his reckless announcement saying he only recognizes West Jerusalem as Israel's capital and East Jerusalem as Palestine's.

 

I do not recall the Trump administration recently saying that the supposed "ultimate deal" peace plan would be "fielded" or even revealed on January 2018. Most comments and commentaries referenced a somewhat later time - possibly March or April.

 

Trump did not end peace talks, as there were no ongoing peace talks. At least not such involving both sides dealing directly. Whether you wish to acknowledge it or not, and however you wish to justify it - even the Palestinians do not dare to announce an end to peace talks, or a withdrawal from a peace process. What they object to is the USA playing the mediator part. Not quite the same thing as advertised. IMO, most likely everyone will wait for the Trump administration to unroll the fabled plan before actually moving on.

 

As for the standing fallacy - if Jerusalem's status cannot be altered or determined by USA's position, and POTUS announcements, this should cut both ways. Meaning that Trump can no more "recognize" all of Jerusalem, or either of its "sides" as anyone's capital or territory. Obviously, if one makes a religion of upholding UN resolutions, then any such pronouncements ought to be brought before the UNSC, UNGA and receive the same criticism and treatment. But obviously, recognizing East Jerusalem as Palestinian or even a Palestinian capital is a totally different matter for some.

 

 

[Morch]

4 hours ago, DaddyWarbucks said:

The US and Israel could be miscalculating badly.

Anything involving Jerusalem itself, and above all its Muslim holy sites, has a much bigger impact than events taking place elsewhere.

The immediate consequence of Trump's action is that the US becomes weaker because it has carried out another initiative of which the rest of the world disapproves overwhelmingly. A superpower at the height of its strength might get away with such a demarche, but not a politically divided US, its influence already ebbing because of failures in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria. The move is so obviously against US foreign policy interests that it will further persuade other world leaders that Trump is an impossible ally. Look at the recent UNSC vote.

The move could have other dangerous consequences. There is a myth that the Israeli-Palestinian struggle was not an issue that concerned Osama bin Laden or played a role in the rise of al-Qaeda. In fact, bin Laden's speeches and writings are full of references to the Palestinians - and his first public utterances in the 1980s were calls for a boycott of American goods because of its backing for Israel.

The connection between the Palestinian question and 9/11 was played down at the time, particularly by pro-Zionist neocons and think tanks who claimed that the US could safely ignore the issue while pursuing an aggressive policy in Iraq while avoiding a backlash against the Israel lobby. But as the wars in Iraq and Syria come to an end, focus will shift back to Israel and the Palestinians. The declaration on Jerusalem throws al-Qaeda a lifeline just as they are facing complete defeat. It will make it easier for Tehran to call for all Muslims, Shia and Sunni, to stand together in defense of the Palestinians and the holy sites.

This declaration is a farce. Trump, Kushner, and Friedman aren't even pretending to be "honest brokers". Instead, they're playing to their core constituencies and financial backers - the Christian Zionists with their "end times" apocalyptic obsession with Jews and Jerusalem, and the Jewish Zionist Right who have not the slightest intention of ever allowing Palestinian self-determination.

 

 

 

 

Not only does the Trump announcement throw a "lifeline" to various Islamic terrorist organizations, but apparently also to those in the West who see Israel as the fountain of all trouble, and as a country that basically all wrong.

 

Anything to do with Israel, or the Israeli-Palestinian conflict or Jerusalem or Whatever can and is used as pretext for violence by Islamic terrorist organizations. Presenting their actions as being about that is the easy way raising support from their "base". That some, especially such as mentioned above, choose to accept these presentations at face value does not necessarily recommenced their validity or accuracy. The myth that a resolution of the Israeli Palestinian conflict will bring about an end to Islamic terrorism is nonsense.

 

I do not think that Trump's announcement was wise, smart or positive. But when it comes to doomsday view on its supposed effects, there's quite a bit of exaggeration and wishful thinking. In effect, and considering this is an issue involving Jerusalem, overall reactions and actual response from the Muslim and Arab world fall short of what could have been expected. There are various reasons for that -  certain countries being dependent on USA support, or not about to push things too far at this junction for other pending considerations; Certain regimes not thrilled with the risks of supporting religious or anti-authority fervor; Lack of actual relevant changes on the ground; and last but not least, the Palestinians not being all too popular or being able to get their act together.

 

Whenever anything supposedly hurts or may hurt Muslims feelings, one of the standard responses offered is that "it" (whatever it is) ought to be avoided at all costs as to avert a certain violent response. There is little by way of addressing the issue of such a violent response being unacceptable, being against whatever stands for ideal Western democratic notions, or of this conditioned response possibly reflecting a successful result for standing coercion and blackmail.

 

Trump might be an "impossible ally". Most allies, however, ultimately deal with the USA. As far as I'm aware, no major cancellations of agreements and treaties by USA allies were on offer. And that it despite all of Trump's shenanigans. Perhaps countries and allies are not as hasty in their decision making as some posters fear or wish them to be.

 

Hard to tell if conflating AQ and IS stems from a mistake or intentionally aimed at the usual presentation of Zionism and Zionists as the root of all evil. AQ is not, sadly, "facing complete defeat". That would possibly be a misguided reference to ISIS, and even then it would apply in the territorial sense rather than IS-related terrorist attacks about to become a thing of the past. If anything AQ is projected to gain traction from IS's territorial demise - the latter's ideological failure seen as reaffirming AQ's stance. Less convenient if one was indeed trying to spin things.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, dexterm said:

Excellent post. Thank you for pointing out how the reckless Jerusalem Trump recognition supposedly "in the best interests of both the United States and the pursuit of peace between Israel and the Palestinians."
http://www.ejpress.org/article/Full-text-of-President-Trump-s-proclamation-recognizing-Jerusalem-as-the-capital-of-the-State-of-Israel-and-relocating-the-United-States-Embassy-to-Israel-to-Jerusalem/23742

 

.......is anything but that! It's another of his alternative facts.

 

Not that I see Trump's announcement as being in the best interests of the USA, or as contributing to peace efforts, but linking the full text of the announcement, going on about "alternative facts" while repeatedly ignoring or brushing aside the words not fully corresponding to your tirades is disingenuous, at best.

 

Quote

The specific boundaries of Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem are subject to final status negotiations between the parties.  The United States is not taking a position on boundaries or borders.

 

[Morch]

4 hours ago, Thaidream said:

As the poster Daddy pointed out very well Trump is again playing to his base and he is also being manipulated by the alt right who believes that might makes right.  There is no logical reason why Trump should ignore his cabinet members to include Tillerson and Mattis who advised against such a move.  The Un Security Council voted 14-1  against the United States and soon the General Assembly will vote almost unanimously against Israel  and the United States.

If Trump really wanted to push the peace process forward- he would tell the Israeli PM in no uncertain terms to stop building settlements in disputed territories and if they don't comply the US will start cutting aid.  In addition, the US should be assisting the Palestinians and Israeli's to move towards a settlement. The issue of Jerusalem can be settled if  the protagonists really want peace but someone needs to nudge them forward.

Trump's actions on this put the World at risk as he is giving more reasons to Al Qaeda and the Islamic State to recruit jihadists who will then bring more havoc to Europe and America/ All this to put Trump in a position-in his own mind to think he will be re-elected. The height of arrogance and frankly megalomania at its worst.

 

According to the above, the way forward is for the USA to coerce one of the sides (Israel), and then help sides move toward a settlement. It is opined that issues could be resolved if sides are given a nudge. Nowhere does it relate anything about pressure applied to the other side (Palestinians) or how both are being supposedly to be nudged.

 

There is no argument that the Israeli government's position is not pro-peace, but failing to recognize similar problems relating to the Palestinian side makes for a distorted picture. The Palestinians are not ready and willing, nor is it clear if which of their two leaderships better reflects their positions.

 

Expecting the USA and Israel (or indeed, any outside power) to sort things for the Palestinians, without them being held as accountable or responsible for anything, is not going to cut it, nor is it a recipe for things going well once an agreement is reached and signed.

 

Trump's decisions may have provided further pretext for Islamic terrorist attacks, that's a fair enough assessment. But then, there were Islamic terrorist attacks before Trump's announcement and there would have been such regardless of his idiocy. Granted, Trump's specific announcement was nothing that justifies providing that extra pretext, that extra motivational push. On the other hand, there seems to be an attitude of acceptance with regard to Muslims acting violently whenever things do not go their way. Publish cartoons, a book, a film, utter an unfavorable statement, make a political stand....anything might serve as pretext and the almost standing "advice" is not to go there.

 

Coercion and blackmail feature in both of the issues above, although not quite in the same way.