Aerated Block Size and Brand Recommendation Please

[Sakeopete]

I have been reading through older threads about aerated blocks. What is the latest recommended brand and size to use for exterior walls for good insulation?

Also what is the current best water resistant sealer on the market?

[Kwasaki]

Global house has everything you need.

[sirineou]

 My builder is using a  double 7.5 cm  cavity wall . Originally we were going to use a single 15 cm block but determined that a double would cost about the same (they are so readily available the price has really come down) but provide superior insulation and hide the columns 

  I don'[t remember the price , because they are included in the price but you can see them at any home improvement store.

Link to my build thread :https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1003921-new-build-in-khon-kaen/

[canopy]

Get q-con. Reason 1: they are high quality blocks licensed to German specifications. Reason 2: q-con supports their product. A recurring story in thailand is builders were never taught about laying AAC blocks correctly and botch the job in various ways. q-con have short, easy to read installation manuals (even in english) and youtube videos for builders online.  If you send q-con an email they always respond. They also like to send a rep out to your site for free to make sure your build is up to scratch. So in case it's not totally clear, here is the process:: (1) buy q-con blocks, (2) give your builder the manual and have them watch the videos (3) get a q-con rep to have a look at the very start of block laying.

 

For an exterior wall, 20cm (8") thick blocks are a good minimum for Thailand. You'll appreciate not only more heat insulation but also more noise insulation (even more critical in thailand). Among the advantages of a thick block versus a double wall of small blocks is the speed of build will be at least twice as fast. That's why developed countries do it this way. Time is money. When using thick blocks, electrical chases are approved to be channeled into the block and totally hidden (use conduit of course). If you need to hide pipes, a popular option in the west with these blocks is to attach studs and an interior gypsum wall. Another method to hide pipes is with a wainscot. And tell your builder to use the q-con lintels. Faster and better (no thermal weak spots) compared to dog slow process of inferior DIY concrete lintels.

 

[Sakeopete]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

 My builder is using a  double 7.5 cm  cavity wall . Originally we were going to use a single 15 cm block but determined that a double would cost about the same (they are so readily available the price has really come down) but provide superior insulation and hide the columns 

  I don'[t remember the price , because they are included in the price but you can see them at any home improvement store.

Link to my build thread :https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1003921-new-build-in-khon-kaen/

I always though about a double cavity wall even before aerated blocks were a thing in Thailand. However several people advised against it because it retains damp and ants love making nests in between the walls. 

[bankruatsteve]

A double wall with cavity is good if you need to hide the posts but the cavity does little if anything to help insulation.  I also worry about ants building up inside a cavity but I wonder how anybody would know if it retains damp?  I did a double wall with 7.5cm blocks and, while the posts show a little the insulation is great and no problem with ants other than sometimes through the windows.  We used super block from Global in Udon simply because that is the only source I could find at the time.  Absolutely no issues and, of course, the builder love it.

[cheeryble]

 

On December 20, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Kwasaki said:

Global house has everything you need.

 

I called Global House in CM yesterday.

From what I could understand they only have the 75mm blocks.

Same goes for Home Mart, TW, and Tor Home except TH has 100mm for 30.5bt v 17.5bt for 75mm......not good.

 

As the house will be in the shade I think a single 100mm block is OK......not keen on finding a builder to do a good job of a cavity 75mm. and easier andd stronger to lay the wall beams at 100mm wide.

 

Has anyone anywhere got a price for a 100mm AAC block, pref QCon but interested in anything?

(May have to make a topic of this.)

Edited December 21, 2017 by cheeryble

[canopy]

You can order any size blocks or lintels from HomeMart. Of course they don't stock everything. They can usually deliver anything to you in a few days which is the same lead time for stuff they do have in stock.

 

[cheeryble]

4 minutes ago, canopy said:

You can order any size blocks or lintels from HomeMart. Of course they don't stock everything. They can usually deliver anything to you in a few days which is the same lead time for stuff they do have in stock.

 

Is that so?

I asked the girl at the counter for a price on 100mm and she said they didn't do them. Hmmm.......TIT.

[canopy]

She must not have understood what you were asking. Ask her for a q-con brochure and point to what you want.

 

[Pogust]

I'm building with Insee blocks, the loadbearing G4. 20 cm for outside walls and 10 for inside. Price in Rayong area for 20 cm is 55, 10 cm is 31. There is a limit on how few you order, and there has to be full pallets.

 

I don't need concrete pillars so building is fast and easy. There are lintels above doors and windows made to order and delivered in 2 weeks.

[MikeN]

Any of the SCG outlets can order q-con for you, another option is through onestockhome.com ( https://www.onestockhome.com/en/products/18631970/q-con-light-weight-brick-g2 ) .I doubt you can get stuff any cheaper than from them but you do have shipping costs to add on, so you have to order as much as possible from them to get good value. Their price on 10cm Q-con is 23.55 baht/block.

[cheeryble]

3 hours ago, MikeN said:

 Their price on 10cm Q-con is 23.55 baht/block.

Thats what I've been looking for.....a 10cm price which is nearly pro rata with the 7.5mm price

But i see they're a BKK company.

DO you know SCG's price and if they are in CM?

[canopy]

q-con is a product from SCG.

 

[cheeryble]

Any of the SCG outlets can order q-con for you, another option is through onestockhome.com ( https://www.onestockhome.com/en/products/18631970/q-con-light-weight-brick-g2 ) .I doubt you can get stuff any cheaper than from them but you do have shipping costs to add on, so you have to order as much as possible from them to get good value. Their price on 10cm Q-con is 23.55 baht/block.

I see onestickhome does an installation service for blocks at 138bt Per sqm.
Is that a reasonable price to put in calculations or can I expect to find much cheaper?

Secondly....
It may be difficult to get any local crew to build without the standard concrete pillars but I like the idea of using blocks only which I presume just starts on a concrete ground beam.
1. Presumably the G4 blocks are denser? How much does that affect their thermal/sound insulating qualities. Does it need a thicker block....is there an accepted ratio of thickness from G2 to G4 for the same insulation?
2. With a lightweight color bond single pitch roof can one just use the G2 as loadbearing? If so what would be the highest wall possible? (I’m thinking of 4metres high for the higher side wall going down to abt 3.2m on the low side)
3. If one builds pillarless does one not have horizontal concrete strengthening beams in the walls and can one bed rebar in the blocks every X courses instead?

Bonus question: is my idea of 4m high sloping ceiling a bad one from the point of view of aircon cost or will it be offset by the advantage of having convection cooling across the room as I plan for clerestory windows on the high side and low glass doors and windows the other side?

Maybe difficult questions but any knowledge gratefully received


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[MikeN]

only the 20cm blocks are load-bearing, and even then you would have the problem of finding a team that can build without the usual columms.

Q-con do have an English language handbook, have you read that ? Bottom of this page : https://qcon.co.th/en/product/q-con-block/

It has a comparison for the thermal and acoustic values for the different thicknesses, and details about how high/long you can build without the concrete tie beam.

 

I see onestickhome does an installation service for blocks at 138bt Per sqm.

I don't think they do it themselves, think they are just quoting a standard (BKK?) rate.

Edited December 23, 2017 by MikeN

[kamalabob2]

I'm familiar with name brand autoclaved wall blocks sold in Isaan. Q-Con is certainly a brand to consider. Diamond Building Products might be another brand to consider as both brands have support teams, videos, brochures to help construction workers. Global House might not be as resourceful as a family owned Home Mart or independent builders merchant store in Chiang Mai to easily order 10cm, 15cm, 20cm or 25cm wide autoclaved blocks. Watch the eyes roll backwards when you ask most store staff about QCon steel reinforced autoclaved wall panels,  lintels from Q-Con or Diamond, or the kitchen and bathroom blocks. None of these were hard to get for my home in Buriram and they should not be a challenge in Chiang Mai. Buy locally as the last kilometer is what is most important for the careful unloading off a crane truck. Not many home builders have the surface to use a fork lift when building a home in Thailand. 

[cheeryble]

12 hours ago, MikeN said:

only the 20cm blocks are load-bearing, and even then you would have the problem of finding a team that can build without the usual columms.

Q-con do have an English language handbook, have you read that ? Bottom of this page : https://qcon.co.th/en/product/q-con-block/

It has a comparison for the thermal and acoustic values for the different thicknesses, and details about how high/long you can build without the concrete tie beam.

 

I see onestickhome does an installation service for blocks at 138bt Per sqm.

I don't think they do it themselves, think they are just quoting a standard (BKK?) rate.

Thanks Mike 

I got the English version .....it's very useful indeed.

One thing I noticed in their literature was two figures given for the electricity one might save

One was 30%, the next was 25%.

That fairly low figure makes one realise that hat is coming in mainly not through the blocks, and would tend to make me not worry about using a thick block.

 

I wrote to onestockhome and got a polite reply telling me yes it is more expensive in CM and asking for details about my location and requirements.

[canopy]

The 20cm block are over twice as good thermally as the 7.5 blocks. And when you add in the extra noise insulation it's an excellent choice to match with a hot, noisy Thailand. I'd sure not want to live in a house without a magical wall like that.

 

So I did it. I built with the 20's and can say that going inside the house is like going to heaven. It's just so cool, quiet and peaceful. I can sleep every night until I feel rested rather until the noise starts. That's a luxury most people here don't have. But I must mention there are other key ingredients like all my windows and doors have high quality weatherstripping, multi-pane, etc.

 

[vogie]

On 21/12/2017 at 8:37 AM, Sakeopete said:

I always though about a double cavity wall even before aerated blocks were a thing in Thailand. However several people advised against it because it retains damp and ants love making nests in between the walls. 

Is there a general consensus whether single or double cavity is better here in Thailand, or just use a thicker block? I have chance to buy some land in Khorat, so seeking as much info as poss.

[bankruatsteve]

14 minutes ago, vogie said:

Is there a general consensus whether single or double cavity is better here in Thailand, or just use a thicker block? I have chance to buy some land in Khorat, so seeking as much info as poss.

I doubt there is consensus.  For insulation purpose it doesn't matter.  The advantage to using a double wall with 7.5cm blocks is that they are easier to source and probably cheaper than the equivalent full size block.  A cavity can be used to "hide" the poles and give ants a place to live.

[Naam]

2 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

I doubt there is consensus.  For insulation purpose it doesn't matter.  The advantage to using a double wall with 7.5cm blocks is that they are easier to source and probably cheaper than the equivalent full size block.  A cavity can be used to "hide" the poles and give ants a place to live.

for insulation purposes it DOES matter a LOT provided the void is closed to prevent any air movement.

 

a double wall (each 7.5cm thickness) plus a void of 7.5cm gives you a thermal and noise insulation factor that is higher than a single 20cm wall.

 

the reason why is quite simple: any gaseous medium (in this case air) has less heat conductivity than a solid medium (aerated blocks).

 

case closed, witnesses are excused. illegal assumptions shall be punished. Bailiff next insulation case.

 

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

5 hours ago, Naam said:

for insulation purposes it DOES matter a LOT provided the void is closed to prevent any air movement.

 

a double wall (each 7.5cm thickness) plus a void of 7.5cm gives you a thermal and noise insulation factor that is higher than a single 20cm wall.

 

the reason why is quite simple: any gaseous medium (in this case air) has less heat conductivity than a solid medium (aerated blocks).

 

case closed, witnesses are excused. illegal assumptions shall be punished. Bailiff next insulation case.

 

 

 

Nope.  Case re-closed.

[cheeryble]

Someone mentioned buying different blocks for the bathroom and kitchen.

I presume this is something to do with damp resistance.

I have looked right through the QCon e-booklet and don't see it mentioned.

 

What's the story please?

[bankruatsteve]

2 hours ago, cheeryble said:

Someone mentioned buying different blocks for the bathroom and kitchen.

I presume this is something to do with damp resistance.

I have looked right through the QCon e-booklet and don't see it mentioned.

 

What's the story please?

We had concern about that so my builder put a few rows of "red brick" on the bottom.  The blocks were then tiled as normal.  8 years no issues.

[MikeN]

Some people insist that AAC is unsuitable for damp areas, but IMHO that is BS. Read some of the HEBEL brochures, from countries where building standards are enforced, as are laws against false advertising claims ...for instance, I don't think hebel Australia could afford to claim that " Hebel is ideal for bath, shower and spa hobs' if that was demonstrably untrue. (http://hebel.com.au/uploads/downloads/HELIT024_Oct15_Houses_PRGuide.pdf)

A friend in Aus had a Hebel block home, only the shower recess and close to the washbasin/kitchen sink areas were tiled, other walls were just painted. Built by a qualified and licensed builder, okayed by the local housing inspector ...good enough for them, good enough for me.

[canopy]

Some people insist that AAC is unsuitable for damp areas, but IMHO that is BS

 

You are both right. AAC blocks are fine in wet areas IF installed correctly. For instance, they work well on exterior walls where they take driving rain everyday because they are protected by render / sealer / primer. Showers need special precautions because water can get behind the tiles. Many builders are aware this happens, but don't know how to waterproof so they just use red bricks instead. A company like SCG would be eager to describe how to properly waterproof AAC blocks in a shower if asked. I think they even have a youtube video on how to do this. I also think one would be better off with a dry AAC block shower than a damp red brick shower in the long run. But worst of all would be a wet AAC block shower. So it comes down to the knowledge and skill of the builder.

 

[Naam]

5 hours ago, cheeryble said:

Someone mentioned buying different blocks for the bathroom and kitchen.

I presume this is something to do with damp resistance.

I have looked right through the QCon e-booklet and don't see it mentioned.

 

What's the story please?

no story, just Thai ignorance, respectively lack of experience.

[Bill3173]

Q-Con recommends the a 100mm curb is installed in bathrooms (or flooded areas) before laying of the blocks. See the link to handbook, page 5, point 7.

https://qcon.co.th/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/QCON-Handbook-English.pdf

 

Australia was previously mentioned. It is a building requirement there that all wet areas have a waterproof membrane applied. This can be applied to different building mediums and is easy to apply (see links below). I would imagine you can get the same/similar product here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK5tuRdEGWU

https://youtu.be/Kj6GcXor2ls

 

[cheeryble]

I guess I was asking if blocks are made pretreated for bathrooms (like green plasterboard is), and the answer's no.

Thanks for the comments.

 

I think I would consider a coat of the reasonably cheap 2pqrt epoxyon the shower area.

TOP TIP I’ve previously had someone apply this to the shower base and a few inches up the wall in condos.......a place you really don’t want water to get through to below. It forms a sort of basin of the base. Also even used green plasterboard coated in epoxy and sealed the epoxy to the formed shower base before tiling. Plasterboard would normally be a complete no no, but I’d had the basement wall tanked and they left the plasterboard on top as the finish.

Worked v well.

In actual fact I could swear I’ve seen a video demonstrating that red block absorbs water more than AAC.

 

 

 

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