Chess federation says Israel excluded from Saudi-hosted match

[webfact]

Chess federation says Israel excluded from Saudi-hosted match

 

FILE PHOTO: A chess player looks at the board during a game against Israeli grandmaster Alik Gershon at Rabin Square in Tel Aviv, October 21, 2010. REUTERS/Nir Elias/File Photo

 

ATHENS (Reuters) - Israeli players have been denied visas to participate in a speed chess championship hosted by Saudi Arabia this week, a vice president of the World Chess Federation (FIDE) said on Sunday.

 

Seven Israeli players had requested visas for the tournament on Dec. 26-30. It would have marked the first time Saudi Arabia had publicly hosted Israelis as the Gulf state does not recognise Israel and there are no formal ties between them.

 

Israel Gelfer, vice president of FIDE, whose Secretariat is based in Athens, told Reuters in an email that visas for the Israeli players "have not been issued and will not be issued".

 

He said the tournament would go ahead as planned. It was not immediately clear if other delegations had been excluded but players from Qatar had suggested they may have been rejected.

 

Saudi Arabia's Center for International Communication said in a statement that more than 180 players would participate but did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

 

Israel Chess Federation Spokesman Lior Aizenberg said efforts were still being made "by various parties" to ensure the Israeli players took part.

 

"The event is not a world championship if they prevent chess players from several countries from taking part," Aizenberg told Reuters.

 

"Every chess player should have the right to participate in an event on the basis of professional criteria, regardless of their passports, their place of issue or the stamps they bear."

 

Aizenberg said FIDE should ensure Israeli players could compete in international events and that the Israeli federation was considering all options, including legal action and holding an international competition in Israel for players excluded from the Saudi match.

 

FIDE had said in November it was undertaking a "huge effort" to ensure all players were granted visas.

 

(Reporting by Karolina Tagaris in ATHENS, Dan Williams in JERUSALEM and Katie Paul in RIYADH; editing by Ralph Boulton)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-12-27

[Somtamnication]

Not a friend of the Israelis, but sports should never (ha ha yeah right) used as a pawn with politics. Sad day for chess.

[DoctorG]

FIDE must not recognize this as an official event if it excludes players from any country.

[Emster23]

If FIDE goes along with Saudis, they will reinforce idea that chess is a game with no balls

[FreddieRoyle]

Incredible to see anti-Semitism is absolutely fine, so long as it is this lot doing it. Members of a certain ideology have a free ride to abuse whomsoever they want with nary a complaint lodged. I blame it squarely on PC having gotten completely out of control.

[evadgib]

This'll give Trump the Hump 

[ballpoint]

I don't know why you'd want to play chess in KSA anyway.  The bishops are banned, the queen must stand at the back and only move 10 paces behind the king, and their new jihadist piece is either flying a plane into your castle or blowing itself and your king up whenever you're about to win.

Edited December 27, 2017 by ballpoint

[sanemax]

3 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Incredible to see anti-Semitism is absolutely fine, so long as it is this lot doing it. Members of a certain ideology have a free ride to abuse whomsoever they want with nary a complaint lodged. I blame it squarely on PC having gotten completely out of control.

Although I dont think that the problem is "antisemitism" , the problem is that Saudi doesnt recognise Israel as a Country .

   Jews from other Countries would be allowed into Saudi , but Christians with Israeli passports would not be allowed in , so, this isnt a case of anti semitism

[chuang]

Why did the FIDE allows politics in sport...

[Andaman Al]

Well you don't need a brain the size of a Rocket Scientist to work out this was always going to be the situation. It begs the question who agreed to allow Saudi Arabia to host the competition on the first place? It is clear that until Saudi sorts out it's 'issues' it should never be considered as a venue for any international competition.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, Andaman Al said:

Well you don't need a brain the size of a Rocket Scientist to work out this was always going to be the situation. It begs the question who agreed to allow Saudi Arabia to host the competition on the first place? It is clear that until Saudi sorts out it's 'issues' it should never be considered as a venue for any international competition.

It seems that Saudi said they would allow Israelis into the competition and thus they got given the hostage (!!!) and they then changed their minds 

[Opl]

"I am ready to stand for my principles': Double world chess champion says she won't defend titles in Saudi Arabia because of kingdom's inequality"

The Ukrainian, 27, will not travel to Saudi Arabia, where she wouldn't even be allowed to walk down the street unaccompanied. 

"In a few days I am going to lose two World Champion titles - one by one," Anna Muzychuk says. Just because I decided not to go to Saudi Arabia."

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/world-chess-champions-anna-muzychuk-saudi-arabia-rapid-blitz-inequality-a8128751.html

 

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by Opl

[Morch]

10 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Well you don't need a brain the size of a Rocket Scientist to work out this was always going to be the situation. It begs the question who agreed to allow Saudi Arabia to host the competition on the first place? It is clear that until Saudi sorts out it's 'issues' it should never be considered as a venue for any international competition.

 

Similar issues do come up every now and then, sometimes solved with the Israeli delegations competing, but under the relevant organization's flag, rather that their national flag. Not ideal, but eh. I think the Saudis may have been open for such an arrangement (which, if not mistaken, would have been a first), but that Trump's Jerusalem announcement made the political angle more problematic. If this was another sporting event, with a less meaningful Israeli participation it may not have been much of headline.

[ilostmypassword]

4 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Incredible to see anti-Semitism is absolutely fine, so long as it is this lot doing it. Members of a certain ideology have a free ride to abuse whomsoever they want with nary a complaint lodged. I blame it squarely on PC having gotten completely out of control.

Not just anti-semitism but anti-shi'ism and anti sunnism since Iranian and Qatari players are also excluded from the tournament. Or, just maybe, religion wasn't the issue here?

Not surprisingly, I haven't seen any comment about this from the Israeli government. They don't want to antagonize their defacto allies.

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Not just anti-semitism but anti-shi'ism and anti sunnism since Iranian and Qatari players are also excluded from the tournament. Or, just maybe, religion wasn't the issue here?

Not surprisingly, I haven't seen any comment about this from the Israeli government. They don't want to antagonize their defacto allies.

That is incorrect , Iranians and Qataris have been given visa to attend 

 

A statement issued by the World Chess Federation said that visas for players from Qatar and Iran, which is also locked in a confrontation with Saudi Arabia, were secured. It made no mention of Israeli players.

 

"The fact that players from Iran and Qatar may decide not to participate, after consulting their own authorities, is clearly their own individual decision," the statement said.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/26/saudi-arabia-chess-tournament-row-shameful-treatment-israeli/

 

[dave_boo]

30 minutes ago, Opl said:

"I am ready to stand for my principles': Double world chess champion says she won't defend titles in Saudi Arabia because of kingdom's inequality"

The Ukrainian, 27, will not travel to Saudi Arabia, where she wouldn't even be allowed to walk down the street unaccompanied. 

"In a few days I am going to lose two World Champion titles - one by one," Anna Muzychuk says. Just because I decided not to go to Saudi Arabia."

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/world-chess-champions-anna-muzychuk-saudi-arabia-rapid-blitz-inequality-a8128751.html

 

 

Good on her.

 

Subjugation of any portion of the world's population should be highlighted and pressure brought to bear to truly have everyone judged merely by their abilities and content of their hearts.

[ilostmypassword]

11 minutes ago, sanemax said:

That is incorrect , Iranians and Qataris have been given visa to attend 

 

A statement issued by the World Chess Federation said that visas for players from Qatar and Iran, which is also locked in a confrontation with Saudi Arabia, were secured. It made no mention of Israeli players.

 

"The fact that players from Iran and Qatar may decide not to participate, after consulting their own authorities, is clearly their own individual decision," the statement said.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/26/saudi-arabia-chess-tournament-row-shameful-treatment-israeli/

 

I stand corrected. My information was based on news from a few days ago.

https://www.fide.com/component/content/article/1-fide-news/10587-fide-secured-visas-for-qatar-and-iran.html

Still, it does show that the exclusion of Israeli players was not necessarily based on anti-semitic grounds,

[Oxx]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

Although I dont think that the problem is "antisemitism" , the problem is that Saudi doesnt recognise Israel as a Country .

   Jews from other Countries would be allowed into Saudi , but Christians with Israeli passports would not be allowed in , so, this isnt a case of anti semitism

 

It is illegal for Jews to work in Saudi Arabia, so even if they were granted visas, so even if from other countries they wouldn't be allowed to participate in the tournament.  Saudi Arabia is horrendously antisemitic.

[Morch]

Just now, Oxx said:

 

It is illegal for Jews to work in Saudi Arabia, so even if they were granted visas, so even if from other countries they wouldn't be allowed to participate in the tournament.  Saudi Arabia is horrendously antisemitic.

 

Saudi Arabia: Israelis banned, but Jews now allowed to work here

https://www.timesofisrael.com/saudi-arabia-jews-now-allowed-to-work-here/

[ilostmypassword]

20 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

It is illegal for Jews to work in Saudi Arabia, so even if they were granted visas, so even if from other countries they wouldn't be allowed to participate in the tournament.  Saudi Arabia is horrendously antisemitic.

What makes this remark particularly ludicrous is that it assumes that Saudi Arabia is a nation where the laws are strictly and impartially enforced. Do you really believe if the political decision was made to allow Israelis to enter the kingdom, then the government would enforce laws, if they existed, that would proscribe Israelis from competing?

[sanemax]

There was a similar situation a few years back, wen Chelsea FC went to play a football match in Malaysia and Chelsea had an Israeli playing for them and Malaysia doesnt allow Israelis to go to Malaysia .

   Malaysia backed down and allowed the Israeli to enter

[Oxx]

19 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

43 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

It is illegal for Jews to work in Saudi Arabia, so even if they were granted visas, so even if from other countries they wouldn't be allowed to participate in the tournament.  Saudi Arabia is horrendously antisemitic.

What makes this remark particularly ludicrous is that it assumes that Saudi Arabia is a nation where the laws are strictly and impartially enforced. Do you really believe if the political decision was made to allow Israelis to enter the kingdom, then the government would enforce laws, if they existed, that would proscribe Israelis from competing?

 

You're missing the point.  It's that Saudi Arabia, following Islamic teaching and the Koran, has a pathological hatred of Jews, and consequently of Israel.  There never would be a political decision to allow Israelis to enter the Kingdom (or, indeed, anyone with an Israeli stamp in their passport), and there never would be work permits for individuals professing to be Jews, whatever their nationality.

 

Let's not forget that Mohammed ordered the slaughter of all the adult and young men of the Banu Qurayza tribe because they were Jewish and refused to accept him as a prophet (Koran 33:26-27 and 33:9-10, and hadith).  Saudi authorities take the Koran very seriously, and consider Mohammed as the perfect man - a role model to be followed.  Antisemitism is at the very core of Salafism (and, indeed, most forms of Islam).

 

And let's not forget that chess is forbidden according to Islamic law, at least according to the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia.  (Always think "Mufti" sounds like a cartoon character, like "Miffy".  But never mind.)  Such a tolerant religion.

 

"Chess forbidden in Islam, rules Saudi Arabia’s grand mufti"

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/chess-forbidden-in-islam-rules-saudi-arabia-s-grand-mufti-1.2505598

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Oxx said:

 

You're missing the point.  It's that Saudi Arabia, following Islamic teaching and the Koran, has a pathological hatred of Jews, and consequently of Israel.  There never would be a political decision to allow Israelis to enter the Kingdom (or, indeed, anyone with an Israeli stamp in their passport), and there never would be work permits for individuals professing to be Jews, whatever their nationality.

 

Let's not forget that Mohammed ordered the slaughter of all the adult and young men of the Banu Qurayza tribe because they were Jewish and refused to accept him as a prophet (Koran 33:26-27 and 33:9-10, and hadith).  Saudi authorities take the Koran very seriously, and consider Mohammed as the perfect man - a role model to be followed.  Antisemitism is at the very core of Salafism (and, indeed, most forms of Islam).

 

And let's not forget that chess is forbidden according to Islamic law, at least according to the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia.  (Always think "Mufti" sounds like a cartoon character, like "Miffy".  But never mind.)  Such a tolerant religion.

 

"Chess forbidden in Islam, rules Saudi Arabia’s grand mufti"

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/chess-forbidden-in-islam-rules-saudi-arabia-s-grand-mufti-1.2505598

 

A link above seem to run counter to your claims about Saudi Arabia barring Jews' entry and/or work. As for the link you provided, the OP does not state that the match is canceled. Like most things in the Middle East (or indeed, elsewhere) things aren't usually as black and white as some present.

[Oxx]

15 minutes ago, Morch said:

21 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

You're missing the point.  It's that Saudi Arabia, following Islamic teaching and the Koran, has a pathological hatred of Jews, and consequently of Israel.  There never would be a political decision to allow Israelis to enter the Kingdom (or, indeed, anyone with an Israeli stamp in their passport), and there never would be work permits for individuals professing to be Jews, whatever their nationality.

 

Let's not forget that Mohammed ordered the slaughter of all the adult and young men of the Banu Qurayza tribe because they were Jewish and refused to accept him as a prophet (Koran 33:26-27 and 33:9-10, and hadith).  Saudi authorities take the Koran very seriously, and consider Mohammed as the perfect man - a role model to be followed.  Antisemitism is at the very core of Salafism (and, indeed, most forms of Islam).

 

And let's not forget that chess is forbidden according to Islamic law, at least according to the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia.  (Always think "Mufti" sounds like a cartoon character, like "Miffy".  But never mind.)  Such a tolerant religion.

 

"Chess forbidden in Islam, rules Saudi Arabia’s grand mufti"

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/chess-forbidden-in-islam-rules-saudi-arabia-s-grand-mufti-1.2505598

 

A link above seem to run counter to your claims about Saudi Arabia barring Jews' entry and/or work. As for the link you provided, the OP does not state that the match is canceled. Like most things in the Middle East (or indeed, elsewhere) things aren't usually as black and white as some present.

 

Pay attention.  The link simply reports that Chess is forbidden in Islam, at least according to the Grand Mufti.  It says nothing whatsoever about Jews being allowed to enter or work in Saudi Arabia, and so in no way "seem to run counter to your claims about Saudi Arabia barring Jews' entry and/or work".

 

 

[Deserted]

The title needs to be altered, its a tournament not a match. There isn't much money in chess, so the majority of players will go anywhere and do more or less anything to get it. A lot of them were complaining about chess being banned in Saudi. Now they are there to try and take money. It's all rather sad. 

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, Deserted said:

. A lot of them were complaining about chess being banned in Saudi. 

Chess was not and never was banned in Saudi Arabia .

A Cleric did say that it was unIslamic , but that wasnt a law and it was never banned .

[Deserted]

Correct but it was perceived as being banned by those outside the kingdom, many of which complained incessantly before checking the facts. 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Oxx said:

 

Pay attention.  The link simply reports that Chess is forbidden in Islam, at least according to the Grand Mufti.  It says nothing whatsoever about Jews being allowed to enter or work in Saudi Arabia, and so in no way "seem to run counter to your claims about Saudi Arabia barring Jews' entry and/or work".

 

 

 

I am paying attention, can't say the same about you:

 

Saudi Arabia: Israelis banned, but Jews now allowed to work here

https://www.timesofisrael.com/saudi-arabia-jews-now-allowed-to-work-here/

 

(https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1017569-chess-federation-says-israel-excluded-from-saudi-hosted-match/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-12569843).

 

There is no central authority in Islam. Various clerics and whatnot can pronounce whatever. The reality is that the match (or tournament or whatever) will take place, despite this supposed prohibition.

 

So yes, in both cases, what you posted does not quite match facts.

[Andaman Al]

2 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

You're missing the point.  It's that Saudi Arabia, following Islamic teaching and the Koran, has a pathological hatred of Jews, and consequently of Israel.  There never would be a political decision to allow Israelis to enter the Kingdom (or, indeed, anyone with an Israeli stamp in their passport), and there never would be work permits for individuals professing to be Jews, whatever their nationality.

 

Let's not forget that Mohammed ordered the slaughter of all the adult and young men of the Banu Qurayza tribe because they were Jewish and refused to accept him as a prophet (Koran 33:26-27 and 33:9-10, and hadith).  Saudi authorities take the Koran very seriously, and consider Mohammed as the perfect man - a role model to be followed.  Antisemitism is at the very core of Salafism (and, indeed, most forms of Islam).

 

And let's not forget that chess is forbidden according to Islamic law, at least according to the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia.  (Always think "Mufti" sounds like a cartoon character, like "Miffy".  But never mind.)  Such a tolerant religion.

 

"Chess forbidden in Islam, rules Saudi Arabia’s grand mufti"

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/chess-forbidden-in-islam-rules-saudi-arabia-s-grand-mufti-1.2505598

The point you are missing is that all this is just for the low ranking poor people. The Saudi's at the top of the tree have absolutely no problem at all dealing with Israel and the Jewish. The Saudi's for example realise that some of the most cutting edge defence and surveillance/counter surveillance equipment comes from Israel. They want as much as they can get, so they just white label it as 'Made in UK' or 'Made in China' etc and make sure the Israeli instructors that train them on how to use the equipment hold US or Russian passports in addition to Israeli. The 'white labelling' is so that the 'normal' Saudis do not get to know that they are actually working with their sworn enemy, the truth at the level where all the power and money is, is that they don't give a crap, they collaborate with the Israeli military complex.

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, Deserted said:

Correct but it was perceived as being banned by those outside the kingdom, many of which complained incessantly before checking the facts. 

Was it perceived as being banned? Looking forward to your sources.

 

I think this is related to chess being historically related to Iran.