POLL: Hugs and dirty jokes - Americans differ on acceptable behavior

[webfact]

POLL: Hugs and dirty jokes - Americans differ on acceptable behavior

By Chris Kahn

 

Protest signs are raised at #MeToo demonstration outside Trump International hotel in New York City, NY, U.S., December 9, 2017. REUTERS/Brendan McDermid

 

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Americans differ widely in their views of what constitutes sexual harassment, with age and race as well as gender throwing up the dividing lines, posing a challenge for those who police for such conduct in the workplace.

 

The issue has been thrown into the national spotlight as a string of prominent men in U.S. politics, entertainment and the media have been felled by allegations of sexual misconduct in recent months.

 

A Reuters/Ipsos national opinion poll, released on Wednesday, asked more than 3,000 American adults to consider eight different scenarios and then prompted them to decide if they would personally label each to be an example of sexual harassment. The variation in responses showed a need for employers to spell out expected standards, employment experts said.

 

While most adults in the Dec. 13-18 poll agreed that acts such as intentional groping or kissing “without your consent” amounted to sexual harassment, they disagreed over a number of other actions.

 

(Graphic on the poll: http://tmsnrt.rs/2BFmwWI) 

 

When asked about “unwanted compliments about your appearance,” for example, 38 percent of adults said this amounted to sexual harassment, while 47 percent said it did not.

 

Some 41 percent of adults said they thought it was sexual harassment when someone told you “dirty jokes” but 44 percent said it was not. And 44 percent of adults said that nonconsensual hugging was sexual harassment, while 40 percent said it was not.

 

The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, a federal agency that enforces workplace discrimination laws, says sexual harassment can include unwelcome sexual advances as well as other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature that affects an individual's employment, interferes with their performance or creates an intimidating or hostile work environment.

 

But courts have disagreed on when individual actions cross the line into harassment. And many workplace sexual harassment cases are settled by employers before they ever reach a court, so there is not a constant judicial airing of standards.

 

TOUCHING AND HUGGING

 

Since people come to work with different ideas of what is appropriate, managers should train their employees and develop clear lines of conduct so that there are no misunderstandings, said Suzanne Goldberg, director of the Center for Gender and Sexuality Law at Columbia Law School.

 

“The onus is on employers” to set the tone, Goldberg said. “Even if the co-workers don’t object or go to management to complain.”

 

In the Reuters/Ipsos poll, for example, 19 percent of men said that touching someone intentionally without their consent was not sexual harassment, compared with 11 percent of women. The poll did not specify exactly what was meant by non-consensual touching.

 

Fifty-two percent of people from racial minorities said that they considered non-consensual hugging to be sexual harassment, compared with 39 percent of whites.

 

While most adults said they thought that it was sexual harassment to send “pornographic pictures” to someone without their consent, younger people appeared to be more permissive.

 

Eighty-three percent of millennials, or those adults born after 1982, said it was sexual harassment, compared with 90 percent of gen-Xers (born 1965-1981) and 94 percent of baby boomers (born 1946-1964.)

 

Experts in sexual harassment law said it is understandable that women, especially women who are racial minorities, define sexual harassment differently than men, given that many have experienced it first-hand.

 

“Men do not cross the street to avoid people,” said Joanna Grossman, a law professor at Southern Methodist University who specializes in workplace equality. “Virtually all women do, whether or not they’ve been attacked before. It’s part of growing up in a group that’s been victimized for so long.”

 

WORKPLACE STANDARDS

 

Clear workplace standards would help everyone, including those who are accused of sexual harassment, said Minna Kotkin, director of the Brooklyn Law School Employment Law Clinic.

 

Kotkin, whose clinic provides legal help for people dealing with sexual harassment in the workplace, said she recently advised a man who said he was fired because he misunderstood where the line had been set.

 

“He worked in retail, and this was a place where there was sexual banter going around,” Kotkin said. “And one day he made a comment about a co-worker’s breasts. And then later she claimed that he grabbed her by the waist.”

 

“He got fired, and he was really surprised,” she said. “He thought that conduct was part of their relationship ... But the question is, maybe this woman tolerated this all along and then finally had enough?”

 

The Reuters/Ipsos poll was conducted online in English throughout the United States. It has a credibility interval, a measure of accuracy, of 2 percentage points for the entire sample. The credibility interval is higher for subsets based on gender, age and race, as the sample size is reduced.

 

(Reporting by Chris Kahn; Editing by Frances Kerry)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-12-28

[charmonman]

Touching someone's hand is now considered sexual harassment? Saying "nice haircut" is now considered sexual harassment? Why don't we just require women to cover themselves head to toe like the Saudis? Problem solved.

 

This whole thing is being pushed to the point of absurdity. 

[riclag]

I can't help myself! When I see a beautiful gal ,I want to check her out.Do I feel guilty if she or someone catches me! Nope! It's human nature,or at least it use to be. lol

Edited December 28, 2017 by riclag

[smotherb]

2 hours ago, charmonman said:

Touching someone's hand is now considered sexual harassment? Saying "nice haircut" is now considered sexual harassment? Why don't we just require women to cover themselves head to toe like the Saudis? Problem solved.

 

This whole thing is being pushed to the point of absurdity. 

Nice tarp. I notice the way the wind cups your cheeks as you walk.

[atyclb]

i recall a talk i had with women working at a hospital in colombia, sa. told them about the hostile usa sexual harassment workplace. they said if a man/men do not tell them how lovely they look on a given day they are surprised and saddened. in america if you comment to a female colleague that she looks nice she will call a lawyer.

[Thaidream]

It's almost that bad-  when I was working in America as a Manager and having hiring responsibility- we took a special course on Sexual harassment. Giving someone a compliment is no problem unless it is overly effusive.  Asking a co-worker out is fine but if she says no- don't ask again.  When interviewing a female candidate- make no references to how they look; or even glance at their legs- it actually could be grounds for a lawsuit. Don't even think about hugging anyone.  Smiling is all right- leering is not. And on and on..

 

I "m glad I retired and got away from this nonsense.  I expect people will be buying robots soon enough and avoid any interaction with each other.

[spidermike007]

The idea of sexual harassment in the US, has passed all reasonable boundaries. When Matt Damon recently came out and stated that there was a big difference between a little pat on the butt, and forceful rape, he was nearly crucified by some women in Hollywood, (especially the shrill, elderly, and way, way, way past the sell by date) Minnie Driver. That alone demonstrated to the most reasonable mind, how far out of control this "war on men" has gone. It is beyond ridiculous. It is petty, silly, surly, and just plain old dumb. Not to say there are not men who deserve it. But, a pat on the butt, or a man putting his hand on a woman's thigh, when they are engaged in a friendly conversation is NOT the same as rape and does not constitute sexual harassment. And yes, I would feel the same way if it happened to my daughter. Give me a break. This whole situation is stupid. American men have been emasculated already. Now, it is getting so extreme, pretty soon it might be illegal to even possess a male organ in the US. 

 

So, I propose this. When a woman accuses a man of "sexual harassment" the burden of proof lies on her. She has to demonstrate some evidence. Otherwise, it is he said, she said. And in the US, she said always wins out. 

[Mac98]

17 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

The idea of sexual harassment in the US, has passed all reasonable boundaries. When Matt Damon recently came out and stated that there was a big difference between a little pat on the butt, and forceful rape, he was nearly crucified by some women in Hollywood, (especially the shrill, elderly, and way, way, way past the sell by date) Minnie Driver. That alone demonstrated to the most reasonable mind, how far out of control this "war on men" has gone. It is beyond ridiculous. It is petty, silly, surly, and just plain old dumb. Not to say there are not men who deserve it. But, a pat on the butt, or a man putting his hand on a woman's thigh, when they are engaged in a friendly conversation is NOT the same as rape and does not constitute sexual harassment. And yes, I would feel the same way if it happened to my daughter. Give me a break. This whole situation is stupid. American men have been emasculated already. Now, it is getting so extreme, pretty soon it might be illegal to even possess a male organ in the US. 

 

So, I propose this. When a woman accuses a man of "sexual harassment" the burden of proof lies on her. She has to demonstrate some evidence. Otherwise, it is he said, she said. And in the US, she said always wins out. 

A district court ruled that sexual harassment is "whatever the woman says it is". The case involved a manager having his hand in his pocket and handling his change in a supposed suggestive manner. In other words, you are guilty before the trial starts and there is no way to prove otherwise, unless you weren't there.

[timendres]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The idea of sexual harassment in the US, has passed all reasonable boundaries. When Matt Damon recently came out and stated that there was a big difference between a little pat on the butt, and forceful rape, he was nearly crucified by some women in Hollywood, (especially the shrill, elderly, and way, way, way past the sell by date) Minnie Driver. That alone demonstrated to the most reasonable mind, how far out of control this "war on men" has gone. It is beyond ridiculous. It is petty, silly, surly, and just plain old dumb. Not to say there are not men who deserve it. But, a pat on the butt, or a man putting his hand on a woman's thigh, when they are engaged in a friendly conversation is NOT the same as rape and does not constitute sexual harassment. And yes, I would feel the same way if it happened to my daughter. Give me a break. This whole situation is stupid. American men have been emasculated already. Now, it is getting so extreme, pretty soon it might be illegal to even possess a male organ in the US. 

 

So, I propose this. When a woman accuses a man of "sexual harassment" the burden of proof lies on her. She has to demonstrate some evidence. Otherwise, it is he said, she said. And in the US, she said always wins out. 

I agree 100% with your sentiment. However, I have to say that there is no reason for anyone to ever touch someone's as$. A pat on the back to congratulate, a touch on the arm or shoulder to express concern, these are fine and sufficient. And quite acceptable.

 

Frankly, it is common sense, and it is absurd that people are looking to the government to solve a non-issue. Women in the 40's, 50's and 60's had no problem giving a guy "the look" which meant "you just stepped over the line buster" and most men understood. Those who did not were "dealt with" by the more honorable men who would make sure they understood. Those who still did not get it, would get a wake up slap from the woman, which they thoroughly deserved. There is no fixing the 2% of complete a-holes, even with laws and lawsuits, and yet the 98% are punished. That is just dumb.

 

The US has, frankly, lost it's way. People are getting more ignorant with each passing year.

[newatthis]

14 hours ago, Thaidream said:

It's almost that bad-  when I was working in America as a Manager and having hiring responsibility- we took a special course on Sexual harassment. Giving someone a compliment is no problem unless it is overly effusive.  Asking a co-worker out is fine but if she says no- don't ask again.  When interviewing a female candidate- make no references to how they look; or even glance at their legs- it actually could be grounds for a lawsuit. Don't even think about hugging anyone.  Smiling is all right- leering is not. And on and on..

 

I "m glad I retired and got away from this nonsense.  I expect people will be buying robots soon enough and avoid any interaction with each other.

A little deviation. I was born and bred in the bush in Oz. I remember back in the early 2000's moving to Canberra to further my post-graduate studies. For finances I did the graveyard / early morning shift at a service station. I was pretty laid back fellow and my early morning greetings were meant to cheer up those who were starting their day. After serving one customer I just casually said: "Have a good day, luv." [I was a bushie & words like mate, cobber, digger, luv, pet, dear etc were common in our vocab]. Well, did she go off her brain. In a shop full of customers, I learnt very quickly the PC of Canberra. To say it didn't change my interaction with people would be a lie.

I actually enjoyed the servo work, but left after completion of the studies I went into academia and avoided a lot of contact with people.

[Grumpy Duck]

17 hours ago, riclag said:

I can't help myself! When I see a beautiful gal ,I want to check her out.Do I feel guilty if she or someone catches me! Nope! It's human nature,or at least it use to be. lol

I agree. So often I will see a woman dressed provocatively (attractively) and when I am caught "looking exploitively" or appreciatively  I am looked at as a pervert.

Perhaps because of my age?

Sounds like age discrimination to me, but do I complain? 55555

[Grumpy Duck]

I recall when I got out of the Army I worked at an equipment rental company. The assistant manager was pregnant and the typical "I am the only woman to be pregnant" attitude. After she returned from having the baby we hoped her ranting would end, it didn't, it got worse. I finally had enough and said, "My wife delivered our daughter in our single room hooch, with a neighbor woman acting as a midwife and she never cried like you" a few days later I was formally counseled by a district manager for my intolerant remark. 

I felt sexually harassed! Forced to accept the rantings of the only woman in the world to give birth to a child. I quit, for a better job a few days later. 

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, charmonman said:

Touching someone's hand is now considered sexual harassment? Saying "nice haircut" is now considered sexual harassment? Why don't we just require women to cover themselves head to toe like the Saudis? Problem solved.

 

This whole thing is being pushed to the point of absurdity. 

There is nothing new about this, but it's taken some men a while to cotton on.

By the turn of the century I never made any comment on a woman's appearance, unless we were in a relationship, never talked about sex, never allowed myself to be in a room alone with one and the door closed, never sought a relationship with a woman I worked with, never gave a lift to a woman I didn't know by herself etc etc etc.

It recently started as a political weapon, but backfired and has got out of control of the people that started it.

 

What men are too afraid ( we've all become terrified of women's attitudes in public ) to say is that women are just as guilty of "bad" behaviour, but get away with it because of the "all women good, all men bad" mantra currently in vogue. eg women that wear sexy clothing and then attack men for looking. If women don't want men looking at their breasts they shouldn't thrust them into our faces, then accuse us of being pigs because we look at their boobs. It's like they actually believe men want to get to know them because of their ability to debate philosophy . 

 

What worries me now is that western women are often so hostile to men, that it is just going to bring nothing good in the future.

 

However, if I were going to be around a while longer, I'd be investing in the sex doll industry, as once they marry Japanese sex dolls ( amazingly realistic ) and AI/ android technology ( already happening ) anyone with stocks is going to make an absolute fortune as men flee from the real thing in droves.

 

BTW, I have met many women that were up for a bit of nudge nudge wink wink behaviour, but the wowsers seem to have frightened them into keeping silent.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Grumpy Duck said:

I agree. So often I will see a woman dressed provocatively (attractively) and when I am caught "looking exploitively" or appreciatively  I am looked at as a pervert.

Perhaps because of my age?

Sounds like age discrimination to me, but do I complain? 55555

What I like about Thai women ( unfortunately it is changing ) is that they appreciate a man thinking they look attractive and smile back.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, newatthis said:

A little deviation. I was born and bred in the bush in Oz. I remember back in the early 2000's moving to Canberra to further my post-graduate studies. For finances I did the graveyard / early morning shift at a service station. I was pretty laid back fellow and my early morning greetings were meant to cheer up those who were starting their day. After serving one customer I just casually said: "Have a good day, luv." [I was a bushie & words like mate, cobber, digger, luv, pet, dear etc were common in our vocab]. Well, did she go off her brain. In a shop full of customers, I learnt very quickly the PC of Canberra. To say it didn't change my interaction with people would be a lie.

I actually enjoyed the servo work, but left after completion of the studies I went into academia and avoided a lot of contact with people.

Great story. I had a mate a long time ago that used to compliment women he met on the street ( he was a lovely chap- no disrespect or "exploitation" was intended ) and even in the 80s they were taken aback to be complimented by a stranger, but as it was before PC became entrenched they just walked away quickly, and no official complaints made.

These days he'd probably be "helping the police with their enquiries".

[spidermike007]

15 hours ago, timendres said:

I agree 100% with your sentiment. However, I have to say that there is no reason for anyone to ever touch someone's as$. A pat on the back to congratulate, a touch on the arm or shoulder to express concern, these are fine and sufficient. And quite acceptable.

 

Frankly, it is common sense, and it is absurd that people are looking to the government to solve a non-issue. Women in the 40's, 50's and 60's had no problem giving a guy "the look" which meant "you just stepped over the line buster" and most men understood. Those who did not were "dealt with" by the more honorable men who would make sure they understood. Those who still did not get it, would get a wake up slap from the woman, which they thoroughly deserved. There is no fixing the 2% of complete a-holes, even with laws and lawsuits, and yet the 98% are punished. That is just dumb.

 

The US has, frankly, lost it's way. People are getting more ignorant with each passing year.

 

It is the utter embodiment of a nation that has lost it's footing, has really never found it's identity, and has a population of women, 90% of whom, have no ability, willingness, wherewithal, or desire to connect with, manifest, or embody their inner woman, or express femininity for anything other than personal gain. The US is  on the decline, and has been for the past 30-40 years. It is the Western Roman Empire, in the late 5th century AD, prior to Odoacer marching on Rome. 

 

No matter what any fool says, there is no making American great again. Ain't gonna happen. Not in our lifetimes. The direction that country is going in, is irreversible. It is sinking into a wormhole of it's own making. Gorging on reality TV for three decades is a large reason for it. An impotent class of millennials, a completely broken political system, populated by whores on both sides of the aisles, who worship at the feet of a golden calf (lobbyists and the NRA), a completely re-populated political swamp, division, hatred, xenophobia, a completely broken immigration policy (how can you possibly discuss illegal immigration, when you are unwilling to discuss fixing legal immigration?), the astonishing exodus of industry, and more. I could go on for days.

 

I am an American. I own a business in the US. I spend time there annually. I am not just making this crap up. I have seen it firsthand. It is NOT the nation I knew as a young man. It is a land of bitter, disenfranchised, disillusioned, joyless, unfulfilled people, for the most part. There are exceptions, of course. But, I would say unless you are in the top 5%, the quality of your life has diminished so significantly in the past couple of decades, it is beyond recognition. 

 

I feel extremely fortunate to have escaped. And my heart goes out to many of those that remain.

[55Jay]

Women should be able to walk around and work without being harassed, molested or subjugated. 

 

This latest batch of militant feminists do seem more abrasive and prone to foul-mouthed rants, with an emphasis on applying the worst male stereotype to all men, rather than advancing worthwhile women's issues.   I think a lot of main-stream women consider them, and their tactics, as counter-productive.  Like American politics, the nutty, vocal minority compensates by having the loudest megaphone.  And of course, covering blue and purple haired, nose ring wearing women with their tits hanging out in protest, sells newspapers, gets viewers and clicks on websites. 

 

[Mac98]

12 hours ago, newatthis said:

A little deviation. I was born and bred in the bush in Oz. I remember back in the early 2000's moving to Canberra to further my post-graduate studies. For finances I did the graveyard / early morning shift at a service station. I was pretty laid back fellow and my early morning greetings were meant to cheer up those who were starting their day. After serving one customer I just casually said: "Have a good day, luv." [I was a bushie & words like mate, cobber, digger, luv, pet, dear etc were common in our vocab]. Well, did she go off her brain. In a shop full of customers, I learnt very quickly the PC of Canberra. To say it didn't change my interaction with people would be a lie.

I actually enjoyed the servo work, but left after completion of the studies I went into academia and avoided a lot of contact with people.

We had that 'brain washing' class about never looking a woman in the eye when addressing them (it expresses male dominance),  but the following year it was always look a woman in the eye when addressing them (otherwise it is dismissive). And never use 'familiar' terms when addressing them. Our female boss, however, always used 'honey' or 'sweetie' when addressing men. The PC films they showed all had white males carrying out bad behavior. I raised my hand and said I felt "uncomfortable" (an explosive word) about that and who should I complain to? The female presenters just gave an uncomfortable chuckle and moved on. I was then demoted. So I took a huge buyout offer and came to Thailand. Thank you Jesus!! After my return they paid twice my salary to have me come back to work. True story.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

31 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Women should be able to walk around and work without being harassed, molested or subjugated. 

 

This latest batch of militant feminists do seem more abrasive and prone to foul-mouthed rants, with an emphasis on applying the worst male stereotype to all men, rather than advancing worthwhile women's issues.   I think a lot of main-stream women consider them, and their tactics, as counter-productive.  Like American politics, the nutty, vocal minority compensates by having the loudest megaphone.  And of course, covering blue and purple haired, nose ring wearing women with their tits hanging out in protest, sells newspapers, gets viewers and clicks on websites. 

 

There is no mystery as to why it's happening. Some feminists have let the cat out of the bag by saying that they won the old battle, and now they have to convert all men into better babysitters, or words to that effect.

Sad thing is that all male leaders have surrendered unconditionally, and are even assisting in the subjugation of men.

The days of the real man are, I fear, disappearing before our eyes.

[Mac98]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is no mystery as to why it's happening. Some feminists have let the cat out of the bag by saying that they won the old battle, and now they have to convert all men into better babysitters, or words to that effect.

Sad thing is that all male leaders have surrendered unconditionally, and are even assisting in the subjugation of men.

The days of the real man are, I fear, disappearing before our eyes.

Leaders love it. If you can get anyone to follow orders one one thing, it is much easier to get them to follow orders on more things. "Tell me what to do kind sir." All religions know this.

[55Jay]

29 minutes ago, Mac98 said:

Leaders love it. If you can get anyone to follow orders one one thing, it is much easier to get them to follow orders on more things. "Tell me what to do kind sir." All religions know this.

I think they are hitting a wall of resistance as the rhetoric and shrill outrage grows more ridiculous and therein, disingenuous.

 

Feminists are likely to become victims of their own success.

[Mac98]

14 hours ago, 55Jay said:

I think they are hitting a wall of resistance as the rhetoric and shrill outrage grows more ridiculous and therein, disingenuous.

 

Feminists are likely to become victims of their own success.

You are correct. Perhaps your grandchildren will benefit.

[dick dasterdly]

I'm so tired of this BS.

 

How many men have been groped when in a confined space?  How many men have had (a few) odd, fellow employees constantly making suggestive/inuendo laden remarks?  I'm pretty sure the answer is close to zero, which is why men have no idea.....

 

Not that I agree with those women suing RICH men/companies (to make money...) - for anything other than the most obvious, offensive reasons with which even most men would agree that 'he went too far'.

 

Fortunately, only wealthy men/companies generally have to deal with the rare woman out to make money by a spurious claim. 

[212Roger]

On 12/28/2017 at 7:37 PM, Thaidream said:

It's almost that bad-  when I was working in America as a Manager and having hiring responsibility- we took a special course on Sexual harassment. Giving someone a compliment is no problem unless it is overly effusive.  Asking a co-worker out is fine but if she says no- don't ask again.  When interviewing a female candidate- make no references to how they look; or even glance at their legs- it actually could be grounds for a lawsuit. Don't even think about hugging anyone.  Smiling is all right- leering is not. And on and on..

 

I "m glad I retired and got away from this nonsense.  I expect people will be buying robots soon enough and avoid any interaction with each other.

I hear Asian sex robots are hot sellers.

[212Roger]

6 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm so tired of this BS.

 

How many men have been groped when in a confined space?  How many men have had (a few) odd, fellow employees constantly making suggestive/inuendo laden remarks?  I'm pretty sure the answer is close to zero, which is why men have no idea.....

 

Not that I agree with those women suing RICH men/companies (to make money...) - for anything other than the most obvious, offensive reasons with which even most men would agree that 'he went too far'.

 

Fortunately, only wealthy men/companies generally have to deal with the rare woman out to make money by a spurious claim. 

Obviously, you have never been to San Francisco.  

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 4:37 PM, Thaidream said:

It's almost that bad-  when I was working in America as a Manager and having hiring responsibility- we took a special course on Sexual harassment. Giving someone a compliment is no problem unless it is overly effusive.  Asking a co-worker out is fine but if she says no- don't ask again.  When interviewing a female candidate- make no references to how they look; or even glance at their legs- it actually could be grounds for a lawsuit. Don't even think about hugging anyone.  Smiling is all right- leering is not. And on and on..

 

I "m glad I retired and got away from this nonsense.  I expect people will be buying robots soon enough and avoid any interaction with each other.

IMO only an idiot starts a relationship with someone they work with. Chances are it will end, and then what? Would be very awkward working with someone that may have it in for one.

[JemJem]

Many people (me included) don't like being touched or hugged unless there is a good reason/atmosphere. I don't see why so many folks fail to understand this.

 

Whether or not it should be counted as sexual harrassment is another thing (it depends on a variety of factors) ; but, unwanted or unexpected physical contact can really be annoying.

[atyclb]

heres an opportunity to shed light on allegations of sexual harassment by george bush supreme court judge nominee clarence thomas.

 

taking the matter seriously george bush called judge thomas to his office for a word.

 

gw bush;  judge thomas, this a serious matter so please be frank. what is this about sexual harassment and what did it mean to you?

 

judge thomas;  well mr president, her-ass-meant nothing to me, it was her tits i was after

[nausea]

It's a fine line between a virtue and a vice.

[Mansell]

On December 28, 2017 at 6:00 PM, spidermike007 said:

The idea of sexual harassment in the US, has passed all reasonable boundaries. When Matt Damon recently came out and stated that there was a big difference between a little pat on the butt, and forceful rape, he was nearly crucified by some women in Hollywood, (especially the shrill, elderly, and way, way, way past the sell by date) Minnie Driver. That alone demonstrated to the most reasonable mind, how far out of control this "war on men" has gone. It is beyond ridiculous. It is petty, silly, surly, and just plain old dumb. Not to say there are not men who deserve it. But, a pat on the butt, or a man putting his hand on a woman's thigh, when they are engaged in a friendly conversation is NOT the same as rape and does not constitute sexual harassment. And yes, I would feel the same way if it happened to my daughter. Give me a break. This whole situation is stupid. American men have been emasculated already. Now, it is getting so extreme, pretty soon it might be illegal to even possess a male organ in the US. 

 

So, I propose this. When a woman accuses a man of "sexual harassment" the burden of proof lies on her. She has to demonstrate some evidence. Otherwise, it is he said, she said. And in the US, she said always wins out. 

I am sorry, but putting your hand on a woman's thigh is not appropriate behavior......if a woman put her hand on my thigh I would be wondering what the hell was going on and what she had in mind. Also patting on the butt is not rape, but not appropriate behavior. In the seventies I lived in a seminary with men and women. One day I patted this woman on the butt. She turned on me and said angrily, "How dare you touch me without my permission." And she was absolutely right, and was decades ahead of her time. The whole PC thing like most things initially is taken to extremes, and like water has to find its own level, which in time it will do. But for too long it has been a man's world, and it was controlled by men......but the times they are a changing, and you either change with it, or you become a dinosaur and get left behind. Your choice.