Trump, meeting with Republican leaders, says welfare reform may have to wait

[UncleTouchyFingers]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

If Trump and the Congress really wanted to help Americans- he would go after Silicon Valley and the high tech companies which are using the special Visa category for high tech workers from such  countries like Pakistan and India.  These companies are bringing these people in legally but using this loophole in the Immigration law to fill jobs and not paying standard rates they would need to pay Americans.  There are literally tens of thousands of these people who have taken jobs from Americans.  Again- greedy companies not wanting to pay  Americans.

 

Why doesn't Trump stop this type of Immigration but only goes after laborers and dishwashers.?  Easy to figure out.  The High Tech industry is a multi billion dollar industry where CEOS and Top Management make millions of dollars in salary and billions in profit, Trump is a billionaire and he takes care of his colleagues  not the American people.

 

Actually those people are totally vetted, sponsored by their employers for money, housing, healthcare, etc. There are address to track them, forms, visas, ID's, Passports, TAXES. 

 

Totally polar opposite things. Im ok with this. If a company wants to hire foreign employees and want to take them on legally then thats great. Thats the way it should be. But if its a simple job that americans can do then it should be filled by Americans. 

[Thaidream]

I am totally opposed to bringing high tech workers into America legally and paying them a lower salary than would have to be paid to an American  I worked in California for years and I am well aware of how this works.  The purpose of the H Visa is to bring in high tech people who can fill jobs where there are no Americans available to do them. The greedy companies are paying Pakistanis and Indians way below the market value for these jobs instead of hiring available Americans. I don't give damn if they are vetted or not- they should not be allowed to take high paying American jobs from Americans. Why pay a foreigner $40K to do a job which an American could be paid $60K. Let the high tech foreigners work in their own countries.

 

As far as low paying jobs- that Americans will not take- I can live with foreign workers. The problem is that neither Trump nor Congress will get off their butts and pass an Immigration bill that will legitimize foreign labor.   They would rather have small business hire illegals and then arrest them and deport them- which I might add costs the federal government billions of dollars.

[mrwebb8825]

On 1/7/2018 at 1:55 PM, Thaidream said:

You could deport 100% of all illegals in America and that would never solve the problem of the poor becoming poorer and the middle class struggling. Illegals cannot get welfare. Only American citizens or holders of American Resident Visas can get this type of assistance.  Stop believing Trump and his minions.  They are liars and most will soon be indicted . This is typical Trump behavior- he will use a false narrative to turn the talk away from him onto something or someone else. Stop believing the lies.

Really?

"At the federal, state, and local levels, taxpayers shell out approximately $134.9 billion to cover the costs incurred by the presence of more than 12.5 million illegal aliens, and about 4.2 million citizen children of illegal aliens. That amounts to a tax burden of approximately $8,075 per illegal alien family member and a total of $115,894,597,664."

https://fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers

 

[ilostmypassword]

10 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

Actually those people are totally vetted, sponsored by their employers for money, housing, healthcare, etc. There are address to track them, forms, visas, ID's, Passports, TAXES. 

 

Totally polar opposite things. Im ok with this. If a company wants to hire foreign employees and want to take them on legally then thats great. Thats the way it should be. But if its a simple job that americans can do then it should be filled by Americans. 

When you refer to simple jobs, do you mean like waiters and cooks and such? Because Trump uses the H2B visa program to do just that. Rather than pay decent wages to Americans.

[Thaidream]

The figures presented by the Fair Immigration people (which is indeed a misnomer) are certainly exaggerated and used to try and sell us that all immigrants are bad for the country. I might remind everyone that America was built on Immigrants and some of them were even forced to come to America as slaves. The White House itself was built by slaves who received no salary.

 

However, for the sake of argument- let's  say that illegal immigrants cost the US $115 Billion per year. What are the figures for the amount of salaries saved by business and others who use them and would have to pay an American much more to entice them to do the same job. What also is the amount of productivity that illegals produce doing these jobs.  How much more would the cost of a product have to rise to offset the cost of employing an American citizen in these type of jobs. Until those dollar amounts are figured- the argument has little value.

 

Shall we simply deport all illegals en mass back to their country or origin? How much to round them all up- go through the legal process?  House them in detention centers and feed and clothe them? Then hire planes to send them all back to where they came .

 

How many businesses will go broke because they cannot  find Americans to sweat in the fields; work in the chicken and pork processing plants or construction jobs at minimum wage. Will you do it for $7.25 per hour which will not even allow for the basic needs of housing; insurance and transportation.  Politicians and their minions have been telling us for years illegals are taking our jobs- but it is not true.

As I mentioned in a prior post- legal immigrants getting special H1B Visas to work in certain high tech jobs are stealing our jobs. These are the people who should be sent back to their own countries and Americans hired for these high paid jobs and if there are not enough Americans available- let industry and the government partner to get unemployed Americans retrained to do them.

If Trump is so smart- why isn't he doing this and why is he focusing on poor illegals who are actually helping the economy. The answer is simple- Trump is taking care of his mates- the billionaires in the high tech industry allowing them to hire people at less wages than they would have to pay Americans so they can get richer and richer and the rest of us poorer and poorer. 

Smoke and mirrors- my friends- it still continues.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Thaidream

[UncleTouchyFingers]

39 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I am totally opposed to bringing high tech workers into America legally and paying them a lower salary than would have to be paid to an American  I worked in California for years and I am well aware of how this works.  The purpose of the H Visa is to bring in high tech people who can fill jobs where there are no Americans available to do them. The greedy companies are paying Pakistanis and Indians way below the market value for these jobs instead of hiring available Americans. I don't give damn if they are vetted or not- they should not be allowed to take high paying American jobs from Americans. Why pay a foreigner $40K to do a job which an American could be paid $60K. Let the high tech foreigners work in their own countries.

 

As far as low paying jobs- that Americans will not take- I can live with foreign workers. The problem is that neither Trump nor Congress will get off their butts and pass an Immigration bill that will legitimize foreign labor.   They would rather have small business hire illegals and then arrest them and deport them- which I might add costs the federal government billions of dollars.

 

I can agree with paragraph 1 I guess. I dont particularly have an issue as long as people come here legally and are held accountable. I also know that large companies have branches all over the world, and frequently need foreign employees from another branch to work in the US. Tons of different reasons that its reasonable. 

 

41 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

When you refer to simple jobs, do you mean like waiters and cooks and such? Because Trump uses the H2B visa program to do just that. Rather than pay decent wages to Americans.

 

TOURISM. 

 

Expensive resorts hire foreign employees for catering all the time and its completely reasonable. Go into an expensive resort, sit down at a Vietnamese restaurant and you would like to see Vietnamese catering crew and cooks making real Vietnamese food,  for example. You want to see and hear different cultures. Totally common practice in the Tourism industry.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

The total cost of illegal immigrants is debatable, but $50 BILLION a year would be a really conservative number. Hardline organizations put it over $100 BILLION a year and pro-illegal immigrant .orgs have it more at $30 BILLION. 

 

So looking at it from that perspective, its pocket change. One year it could be paid for, and the resulting years can go back to the people in the form of welfare, healthcare, education etc. 

LOL...

 

In each year from 2007 to 2014, more people joined the ranks of the illegal by remaining in the United States after their temporary visitor permits expired than by creeping across the Mexican border, according to a report by researchers at the Center for Migration Studies.

[UncleTouchyFingers]

4 minutes ago, simple1 said:

In each year from 2007 to 2014, more people joined the ranks of the illegal by remaining in the United States after their temporary visitor permits expired than by creeping across the Mexican border

 

Confirmation Bias is STRONG with this post. 

 

Quote

The organization is devoted to public policies that safeguard the dignity and rights of migrants worldwide.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Migration_Studies_of_New_York

 

Yeah sure this .org isnt biased or anything. Not at all.

[Thaidream]

And what shall we do with all the illegals? And at what cost to our economy and at what cost to our reputation in the World?  Solutions?

[UncleTouchyFingers]

16 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Solutions?

 

Hardline. Favor kids. Deport people as they are found. Bulletproof the border. Close all loopholes. End sanctuary cities. Enforce E-verify. Prioritize Americans. 

 

The can has been kicked down the road for WAY too long. Use the billions saved and create bills that directly provide for the education, healthcare, and welfare of Americans. 

[Thaidream]

Illegals have been deported regularly for years before Trump and after Trump. The only way Americans will do any of these jobs is if the salaries rise from $7.25 per hour to $20 per hour as it is hard work. In the meantime- with illegals leaving or being deported- there will be a labor shortage. America will have to import more and more agricultural products; chicken and pork and construction costs will rise rapidly without laborers.

 

I have a more practical solution- legalize all the illegals after they have been vetted and deport only the criminals. Make sure all the vetted illegals pay any back taxes or obligations to the Government/

Develop a real Immigration policy that provides Visas to needed labor in selected industries so legal immigrants can come in and there will be no need to come in illegally. I agree- harden the border but not through expensive border walls but by paying for more border guards and using technology to patrol the border.

Use the monies saved to retrain Americans to do high tech jobs or other positions needed for the future  and eliminate all the High Tech Visas that allow legal immigrants to take jobs from Americans. As part of the new Immigration package- stop immigration lotteries and stop chain migration. In addition- if you come here illegally and you have a child- that child is not an automatic American citizen.

America was built on immigration. We are all immigrants except the Native Americans.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2018 by Thaidream

[simple1]

38 minutes ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

Confirmation Bias is STRONG with this post. 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Migration_Studies_of_New_York

 

Yeah sure this .org isnt biased or anything. Not at all.

Try again...

 

the report said that out of the 45 million arrivals who were supposed to depart in fiscal 2015, about 527,000 remained in the country after their permission to stay expired, a rate of 1.17%. Some of these overstays later departed, but 483,000 were still in the U.S. at the end of the fiscal year on Sept. 30, a rate of 1.07%. More left the U.S. after that, so by Jan. 4, 2016, an estimated 416,500 were still in the country,

 

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/02/03/homeland-security-produces-first-estimate-of-foreign-visitors-to-u-s-who-overstay-deadline-to-leave/

[Thaidream]

The real issue in America is not illegals doing menial jobs but it is countries like China who have huge dollar surplus from  exports to America and then using these monies to 'buy into' America in the form of land purchases or buying up American debt.  Look at the I-phone made by Apple of America but put together by Foxconn- a Chinese Company which employs thousands of Chinese and then Apple selling the phone  Worldwide at huge profits.  Where is the profit going- not to the average American but to the average Chinese and the wealth American owners and Top management.

I don't see Trump imposing a 30% tariff on any of the Chinese products to include the I-phone in an attempt to force real free trade and allow American products to be sold in China without excise taxes and other things that raise the price.

Trump talks a good game but he doesn't produce the results. Hell, he can't even force Thailand to lower the excise on American products sold in Thailand. Ever notice- American foods and other items in the market cost as much as 5 x what the product costs in the US while Thai products enter America with no excise taxes/

It's too bad- if he really wanted to help the average American there is plenty he could do-instead he's chasing poor Mexicans around chicken plants trying to deport them!

Edited January 9, 2018 by Thaidream

[Dumbastheycome]

15 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

Well that's right out of the socialists handbook........comrade!!

 

I think if you asked almost any wealthy people, disregarding those who inherited or won their wealth in a lottery, they would tell you this...........the harder I work, the luckier I get!!  Even many who have inherited or won their initial wealth have built on it, presumably against huge opposition??

 

It's not rocket science, work, be paid, work harder, be paid more, risk what you have earned in a business, be paid even more, etc.

 

Tell me exactly how "those with any real potential are disallowed to form any challenge to those already in a position of economic power".   Be specific please.   I never encountered any such opposition.

 

I do know that there are "lifters and leaners", "doers and watchers", and regrettably the "leaners" and "watchers" are the ones who cry for wealth redistribution, i.e., they want to cash in on others' success without putting in the hard yards.   They're the democrat voters....then there are the Republicans........ you know the rest.

You  maybe unwittingly   confirm  my  interpretation  of  the  "system".  The   inherited  wealth provides an advantage  regardless. Certainly  the  original  wealth  might  have  genuine  effort  but  the   inheritors are  placed  in a position  of  continuance by  being  provided  influence  which  protects  that position. Willing  supported by  legitimate associate  feeders.

I  refute  the   socialist  label in  that it infers  the  concept  that  all  should  have  equal  feed  at the  trough.

I  will admit   to  a  humanist  philosophy which  prefers  that  those   with  the  genuine intelligence and  effort who  generate  wealth  by virtue of concern  for  those  from   whom  they   inevitably  extract that wealth have  genuine  respect  for  the victims  of  the  system that generates  that  wealth. A  purely  socialist  system or  communist  system is  in  opposition  to  the   very  principle  of   initiative. 

The  unfortunate  result  of  the  capitalist  system is  that  it  encourages disregard  for humanatarian  suffering in preference  for  extremes  of  wealth that  in  the  turn of  the  wheel encourage  revolutionary objection.

Political  management needs  to   find  a  balance that  is  equitable in honest terms of human society.

I  concur with   your  opinion  of   leaners,  watchers, lifters. My  personal  description would  be   "milkers".

But  the  truth is   social  engineering  has  created  a  separation  which  deliberately  encourages  that and  makes  it  the  responsibility of  the  aspirants  of  great  wealth  but  never  the attainers  of  great  wealth. It  is  a   methode  of  suppression by  way  of   tax.  The  wealthy   get  tax   breaks.  The social population  that   works  to  generate   wealth  gets stripped  to  pay  for  the  milkers at  their  own  expense,  but  never  to  the  same  degree  as  the  controlling  super  rich.

The  small  percentage  of  those  that  in spite  of  the  system   who  unavoidably become  super  rich  are  quickly  systematically  "encouraged" to    comply.

When  Trump  announces   welfare  reform   can wait  he  is  more  likely  to  have  no  interest simply   because  it  has  little  relevance  to  his personal  situation rather  than admitting  the ongoing  rejection  of   illegals will theoretically remove the  claims  of  milkers.

It  will  not  work. The  generations  of   milkers   will   create  mayhem  in  defence  of  their  subjugated   but  survivable   situation.

The   Capitalist  system  is  based  on  the   donkey  and   carrot .

A   Commercialist  system allows  for  initiative and  honest development.

A  Socialist  system  appeals  to  milkers.

A  Communist  system is  just a  mirror   version  of  the  Capital  system.

So   I  am  not   your  or any  other   "  Comrade".

I  am a  humanist  who  respects  that   inequality in   capacity in  any  social/polititical is unavoidable and  that  in a  reasonable   way  humanity needs  to  acknowledge that humanitarily . 

Is  that  Socialism? Or  would   you   support the  ideology of such as Hitler and   determine  that  the   deliberately designed  disadvantaged   have   no  intellectual or any  other financial merit  to exist ?

Hail  the   $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ! 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thaidream]

The simple fact without all the rhetoric is that if you spread the wealth everyone gets a piece and harmony and happiness is maintained. If you allow he materialistic capitalism of the United states to continue here will be one end- revolution.  Greed is not good- it destroys and if continued America will see a revolution that may not be better than what they now have. Thank God- I'll be gone!!

[EVENKEEL]

10 hours ago, Thaidream said:

If a person is already retired and has no income from wages- I am not advocating taking $200K per year ad infinitum, I am advocating a tax system which taxes the wealthy at rates that generate income so the government can provided a rebate- a credit to the poor to lift them out of poverty and give them a chance to succeed. Today- with education costing a huge amount;  a lack of high paying jobs; and healthcare -the highest in the World- there is a very slim chance of someone lifting themselves out of the low class and into the 1%.

 

There was a time when I thought just like the Trump supporters- just get rid of the illegals and the jobs will be there; just go out and get a job and save your money- you will get ahead; just go to college- you will get a better job.

 

When I was 17 years old- and I wanted to quit high school and go to work- my father  forced me to go pick strawberries in the fields of Ohio. Up at 5 am and riding with illegals to the fields. We worked until sun down. I was the only anglo there- everyone else spoke Spanish and worked as if their lives depended on it- because it did.  We were paid 7 cents per bushel so to make any money you had to be fast.  I was the slowest. It was backbreaking work and after 3 months of it- I was so happy to go back to high school and promised myself I would study hard and hopefully never have to work in the fields again.  I never forgot the people though-they were good, honest people who just wanted to live.

 

During the era of the 50s and 60s- and into the 70s- one could work hard and get ahead. I worked hard- made a good income- saved  a lot and then lost most of  due to a catastrophic illness . Even insurance runs out  .

That is not the case anymore.  You can work hard and possibly stay level and survive. You cannot get ahead unless your are lucky; extremely talented and have the right connections.  The $30 per hour jobs in manufacturing; assembly lines and auto parts factories have been replaced by $10 an hour call center jobs.  These jobs cannot sustain Americans.  

 

The problem that needs to be solved is how can the poor and lower middle class who are working as hard as can be be put on an upward track and make the type of income that can pay for healthcare; college; a home; cars and other necessities. The only way is for the Government to perform its basic functions of providing healthcare; education and low cost loans to its citizens and to pay for this a tax system which redistributes some of the wealth away from wealth business and wealthy individuals. 

It's fairness and equity- but to buy into it you have to believe that most people are doing the best they can. They are not lazy- but the system is shutting them out for success.

 

The majority of the Trump supporters and those of us who don't like Trump want the same end. The debate is how to get to the best result for our families and for our country.

 

 

It's not the illegals that follow the field work and migrate as crops are harvested. It's the illegals working in warehouses, swinging hammers and all the other jobs that legal Americans do want. We pay for their children's education, their hospital care.

[F4UCorsair]

6 hours ago, Thaidream said:

The simple fact without all the rhetoric is that if you spread the wealth everyone gets a piece and harmony and happiness is maintained. If you allow he materialistic capitalism of the United states to continue here will be one end- revolution.  Greed is not good- it destroys and if continued America will see a revolution that may not be better than what they now have. Thank God- I'll be gone!!

 

I understand yhour sentiments Thaidream, but 'spreading the wealth' doesn't work, largely due to government inefficiencies/ waste.   The commerical world calls it 'distribution costs'.

 

It's a little like charities where as little as 5% actually gets to the target organizations, and the rest is swallowed up in travel expenses, huge salaries, advertising, commissions for professional collectors, and just plain waste.

 

On top of that,  governments can't help themselves, and see a pool of money intended for a purpose that never gets to its target because it's diverted for something more electorally popular.

 

I'll tell you a story, and it's a true story........

 

Many years ago I was on a flight and the seat right next to me was occupied by the Australian treasurer.   In conversation it came out that I worked overseas, and he asked why, so I told him that taxation was way too high in Australia, and that high income earners should be keeping more of their money.   If that happened, I may consider coming back 'home' to work.

 

He thought it amusing and said that there weren't enough high income earners (in his words, 'not enough of you blokes'), to make a difference in an election, probably even if they were all spread over just a few electorates.  I said that if that was the case, it follows that taxing them highly wouldn't make any significant difference to the government coffers either, and he agreed.

 

He then said that taxing high income earners wasn't about raising more money, or filtering it to the poor/disadvantaged, although it does raise a relatively small amount in the overall scheme of things, it was about appeasing the losers, making people on low incomes think that their government was taking from the rich to give to them, the Robin Hood mentality, and that IS what it's about.   It's about politicking!!

 

It's not about spreading the wealth, because it seldom, or never, trickles down to them because it's lost in 'distribution costs' or diverted to other projects.

 

An unfortunate characteristic of many Australians is they subscribe to the 'Tall Poppy Syndrome'.  Many hate to think that anybody is doing better than they are and like to see them cut down like a tall poppy, and they have sympathetic ears in successive governments.  Of course the politicians are caught up in the higher taxation trap for high income earners, but they get around that by being given pay rises by their 'independent tribunal', usually just before a taxation reform is announced so that it doesn't appear reactionary!!

 

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2018 by F4UCorsair

[Thaidream]

I do understand your sentiments and no one likes to pay the tax man because most of us share the opinion that Government has failed those they should be helping.  

However, i do believe that those in Government lack any real practical knowledge of what it is like to be poor or struggle simply to get ahead. I have worked with many low income people both in their jobs and as management and I can relate to both sides. Unlike some- I do not believe low income people and the poor are lazy . They just don't have the opportunity to be in a place where anyone will listen to them o give them the chance to move up or become educated.

I did work with one Company in America that actually was socially active- provide a pension; matched monies put into a retirement fund and when the company did well provided additional into retirement and also provided money for education. However, these companies ar few and far between.

 

The problem  in America is that the country has accepted materialist capitalism instead of pure capitalism and government has been in bed with this  concept.  America cannot function in which its workers are hired at minimum wage while its CEOS make multi millions of dollars. This creates an imbalance in which more people become poor and the former middle class starts to slide into the lower income class.  Living costs too much now- healthcare; insurance; schooling; housing -  all functions of the pursuit of happiness cannot be purchased from a rising segment of the population simply because those who are in the 1% refuse to part with a little bit of their money and government refuses to provide programs or solutions to either push prices down or force through taxation a redistribution of wealth making society more fair and stable for everyone.

 

If one reads History- all  the great societies going as back as history records shows a rise  of a great society- such as the Roman Empire; the British Empire;  the Incas; the Khmers - all destroyed themselves due to greed and an imbalance in income distribution. America is next unless changes are made soon and time is running out.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2018 by Thaidream

[ilostmypassword]

6 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

I understand yhour sentiments Thaidream, but 'spreading the wealth' doesn't work, largely due to government inefficiencies/ waste.   The commerical world calls it 'distribution costs'.

 

It's a little like charities where as little as 5% actually gets to the target organizations, and the rest is swallowed up in travel expenses, huge salaries, advertising, commissions for professional collectors, and just plain waste.

 

On top of that,  governments can't help themselves, and see a pool of money intended for a purpose that never gets to its target because it's diverted for something more electorally popular.

 

I'll tell you a story, and it's a true story........

 

Many years ago I was on a flight and the seat right next to me was occupied by the Australian treasurer.   In conversation it came out that I worked overseas, and he asked why, so I told him that taxation was way too high in Australia, and that high income earners should be keeping more of their money.   If that happened, I may consider coming back 'home' to work.

 

He thought it amusing and said that there weren't enough high income earners (in his words, 'not enough of you blokes'), to make a difference in an election, probably even if they were all spread over just a few electorates.  I said that if that was the case, it follows that taxing them highly wouldn't make any significant difference to the government coffers either, and he agreed.

 

He then said that taxing high income earners wasn't about raising more money, or filtering it to the poor/disadvantaged, although it does raise a relatively small amount in the overall scheme of things, it was about appeasing the losers, making people on low incomes think that their government was taking from the rich to give to them, the Robin Hood mentality, and that IS what it's about.   It's about politicking!!

 

It's not about spreading the wealth, because it seldom, or never, trickles down to them because it's lost in 'distribution costs' or diverted to other projects.

 

An unfortunate characteristic of many Australians is they subscribe to the 'Tall Poppy Syndrome'.  Many hate to think that anybody is doing better than they are and like to see them cut down like a tall poppy, and they have sympathetic ears in successive governments.  Of course the politicians are caught up in the higher taxation trap for high income earners, but they get around that by being given pay rises by their 'independent tribunal', usually just before a taxation reform is announced so that it doesn't appear reactionary!!

 

 

 

 

Which is why OECD nation with the most capitalistic health care system has by far the highest costs and, apart from Mexico, the worst outcomes.

[Thaidream]

Regarding Mexico-  many Americans go to Mexico to obtain Healthcare-  physicians and hospitals in such places as Guadalajara  speak great English and the healthcare is equivalent to what one would get in America at 10% of the cost. Once an American or other expat in Mexico obtain a Resident Visa- they are allowed to pay into the countries Social Security Healthcare system and get the same no cost assistance Mexican citizens get.

 

It is also interesting to note that even though I am retied and on American Social Security and Medicare- I am unable to use it overseas, even though the medical care such as in Thailand is very inexpensive compared to America.  The US Government refuses to change the law or provide a rebate to those of us overseas who like myself have paid into the Medicare system for 50 years.

I am also aware that other countries that provide universal healthcare free to their citizens will not allow them to be treated as overseas expats. 

 

Until citizens from all countries go after their countries politicians and force them to change laws which favor true mobility; low cost healthcare and education- all of which are human rights- they will act only for the benefit of themselves and their wealthy supporters

 

. Their attitude towards the majority of us is -who cares -because they know that by encouraging divisions along races; ethnic backgrounds and philosophies keeps us from uniting as one and forcing change. They see us as powerless and they want to keep us that way. 

 

The concentration of wealth in the relative hands of a few cannot be sustained- As I mentioned History is rife with revolution and conflict based upon the domination of the majority by the few. The clock is ticking....!

[riclag]

On 1/7/2018 at 3:40 PM, rudi49jr said:

So you didn't get it yet that low income families will hardly profit (or not profit at all) from Trump's great new tax bill, but that rich people (in income as well as in wealth) will profit obscenely? What would you call that, other than stealing from the poor and giving to the rich?

 What is rich too you?What percentage of taxes do your rich people pay?What percentage of taxes do poor people pay?On the tax relief bill I benefit from saving $800+ annually  ( by forced Obamacare/individual mandate),$200-$275 savings by not having a accountant(simplified tax form). My standard deduction nearly doubles because I  don't itemize deductions.The. tax relief bill isn't perfect but it gives incentive to small business owners(many middle class people are small business) that hire low income people.The 1.5 trillion deficit increase over 10 years, will be slashed dramatically or cancels it by the projected increase in the GDP-3.5 to 4.5 %.These states that have high taxes will be held accountable by being responsible on their spending budgets.This administration want's less federal government involved in American's lives .I can't touch on everything here, it has been talked about before.Perhaps you have a different ideology then me .Well then that's your opinion.

Edited January 10, 2018 by riclag

[Thaidream]

 

sir- I respect your opinion and your savings but we need to separate what we are talking about.

 

-You will save $800 by not having to pay the Obamacare mandate but it sounds like you don't have healthcare which costs plenty. This is your choice.

-You never need an accountant to do taxes- I refuse to pay a cent for anyone to do my taxes- I have done my own for 50 years. Unless one is a very high earner- no one should pay to do taxes.

- The wealthy on average will get between $50-100K in savings to their taxes. The rest of us on average are going to save about $2.50 per day- enjoy your extra cup of coffee or beer- your life will be little changed.

-   You are gaining on your standard deduction but losing your personal exemption of $4050. A large family will pay more in taxes because of this.

 

How much better would your life have been if Trump and his minions would have sent you a check of say $2000 into your bank account  by simply raising the taxes on 1% of Americans and giving some of the other 99% a tax credit payable to them.

 

Businesses are different- I support the lowering of the tax rate from 35% to 21% and allowing business to bring back offshore funds at the lower rate in the hope of this money being reinvested into hiring and raising salaries.

 

As I mentioned I do not support the individual portion of this tax  plan as it will put nothing to little into the hands of the middle class and poor. Trump and his ilk are lying to the American public and protecting their rich friends.

 

One of America's wealthiest man- Warren Buffet remarked- "Something is wrong when a Billionaire like myself pays less in taxes than my secretary."

[UncleTouchyFingers]

36 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

How much better would your life have been if Trump and his minions would have sent you a check of say $2000 into your bank account

[Thaidream]

I'd rather have the $2000 than the utter crap Trump is doing for the middle class- which amounts to an extra cup of coffee per day.  Don't worry Trump supporters- you don't have to check your bank account-  the only thing you'll ever get from Donald Trump is his scorn- it sure as hell won't be any money.

[ilostmypassword]

57 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I'd rather have the $2000 than the utter crap Trump is doing for the middle class- which amounts to an extra cup of coffee per day.  Don't worry Trump supporters- you don't have to check your bank account-  the only thing you'll ever get from Donald Trump is his scorn- it sure as hell won't be any money.

In the short run, there will be a little more money. But the bill was actually designed to ultimately damage the middle class and working class. It does this by changing the inflation measure used. Before it was CPI. Now with this bill it will be the Chained Inflation yardstick. That yields a lower inflation number than the CPI. The result being that taxpayers at the middle and lower end will enter a higher tax bracket more quickly. Now the wealthy, who are already paying the highest marginal tax rate, won't be affected.

[Thaidream]

An excellent point about the inflation index- they are also trying to change the index when measuring whether Social Security recipients should get a cost of living increase. This past year they got a 2% increase but the prior year    .03  and before that 0%.  The elderly on Social Security are being taken to the cleaners by the Congress and President.  They refuse to adequately fund it and want to now find a way to lower the way COLA is figured.  Instead, the defense budget waas increased by $50 Billion and now Trump wants almost %20 Billion for a useless border wall- all paid off the backs of Seniors; the working poor and struggling middle class. Trump believes in the Robin hood syndrome but in reverse- steal from the poor and give to the rich.

[mike324]

22 hours ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

Hardline. Favor kids. Deport people as they are found. Bulletproof the border. Close all loopholes. End sanctuary cities. Enforce E-verify. Prioritize Americans. 

 

The can has been kicked down the road for WAY too long. Use the billions saved and create bills that directly provide for the education, healthcare, and welfare of Americans. 

Under Obamas administration, deportation have increased. (something republicans don't want their supporters to know, and keep on saying dems are for illegal immigrants). You can not bulletproof the border, its a big waste of money by building a big wall. Money is better spend with other means of guarding the border. I do think the US should close the loopholes for hiring foreign workers, big companies are taking advantage of these loop holes. 

 

22 hours ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

TOURISM. 

 

Expensive resorts hire foreign employees for catering all the time and its completely reasonable. Go into an expensive resort, sit down at a Vietnamese restaurant and you would like to see Vietnamese catering crew and cooks making real Vietnamese food,  for example. You want to see and hear different cultures. Totally common practice in the Tourism industry.

That is a lame excuse to defend trump, Trump has use the loopholes himself to hire positions which can be filled by Americans eg. waiters and such. Yes its understandable if its for a special skill such as a "vietnamese chef". But his company has used the loopholes to save money. So much for his MAGA and hire and made in america bs.

 

There are better ways to directly provide for education and healthcare. Cut down on military spending and other wasteful spending / perks for civil servants. 

[ilostmypassword]

23 hours ago, UncleTouchyFingers said:

 

I can agree with paragraph 1 I guess. I dont particularly have an issue as long as people come here legally and are held accountable. I also know that large companies have branches all over the world, and frequently need foreign employees from another branch to work in the US. Tons of different reasons that its reasonable. 

 

 

TOURISM. 

 

Expensive resorts hire foreign employees for catering all the time and its completely reasonable. Go into an expensive resort, sit down at a Vietnamese restaurant and you would like to see Vietnamese catering crew and cooks making real Vietnamese food,  for example. You want to see and hear different cultures. Totally common practice in the Tourism industry.

Sure. At Mar a Lago they're serving authentic Haitan and Romanian cuisine which is why most of the H2B workers come from there including the gardeners. And it has nothing at all to do with the low wages he can pay.

 

 "The sixty-four foreign dishwashers, cooks, cleaners, and gardeners that Mar-a-Lago is expected to employ this year will be paid per hour roughly what they were paid last year. (The Palm Beach Post reported that the range is around ten to thirteen dollars an hour.) The foreign workers brought in to help staff the club tend to come from two countries, Haiti and Romania, according to someone who works at Mar-a-Lago as an employee of an outside contractor. "

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/20/the-foreign-workers-of-mar-a-lago

 

[riclag]

5 hours ago, Thaidream said:

 

sir- I respect your opinion and your savings but we need to separate what we are talking about.

 

-You will save $800 by not having to pay the Obamacare mandate but it sounds like you don't have healthcare which costs plenty. This is your choice.

-You never need an accountant to do taxes- I refuse to pay a cent for anyone to do my taxes- I have done my own for 50 years. Unless one is a very high earner- no one should pay to do taxes.

- The wealthy on average will get between $50-100K in savings to their taxes. The rest of us on average are going to save about $2.50 per day- enjoy your extra cup of coffee or beer- your life will be little changed.

-   You are gaining on your standard deduction but losing your personal exemption of $4050. A large family will pay more in taxes because of this.

 

How much better would your life have been if Trump and his minions would have sent you a check of say $2000 into your bank account  by simply raising the taxes on 1% of Americans and giving some of the other 99% a tax credit payable to them.

 

Businesses are different- I support the lowering of the tax rate from 35% to 21% and allowing business to bring back offshore funds at the lower rate in the hope of this money being reinvested into hiring and raising salaries.

 

As I mentioned I do not support the individual portion of this tax  plan as it will put nothing to little into the hands of the middle class and poor. Trump and his ilk are lying to the American public and protecting their rich friends.

 

One of America's wealthiest man- Warren Buffet remarked- "Something is wrong when a Billionaire like myself pays less in taxes than my secretary."

 State Sources please  $50-100k. You cherry picked your answers.  What is rich too you?What percentage of taxes do your rich people pay?What percentage of taxes do poor people pay? "Under existing law, a single filer can combine the $6,350 standard deduction and $4,050 personal exemption to shield $10,400 from federal income tax. Under the Republican plan, a single filer can shield $12,000, so there's a $1,600 benefit there". 

 

Ok!*Poor people live better in America than most in other countries.

**There is a lot of social programs that cost money and its paid by the rich not by the poor, which benefit from them.

*http://www.heritage.org/poverty-and-inequality/report/understanding-poverty-the-united-states-surprising-facts-about

 

**https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2013/07/25/the-cost-of-child-poverty-500-billion-a-year/?utm_term=.af20e63faff0

 

[Thaidream]

The rich should pay more than others as they have more resources- however, they are not paying enough and need to be made to  pay alot more.  In addition, the wealthy have loopholes in the tax code that allows them breaks the average person cannot get. The US Tax code is an abomination- it runs about 76,000 pages and is filled with all kinds of breaks for vested interests of which were approved by the Us Congress- most of whom are millionaires. The Trump tax plan doesn't go after any of these loopholes or vested interests.

 

You sir- may be getting a $1600 benefit but you are not getting a $1600 check in the mail from Donald- Uncle Sam- Trump.  You are getting the ability to  have an extra $4.00 per day -  A real tax reform package by the Government would  have raised the taxes on the 1% (Those making $465,000 or more) and returned this money to the 99% in the form of a tax credit  starting at $20,000 for the poorest and  graduated downward for the rest. A tax credit rebate actually sends you a check.  

 

Trumps tax plan is smoke and mirrors by increase the wealth of the 1% significantly and giving the rest of us peanuts.  The internet is filled with the proof. Google income inequality.