US Social security benefits to Thai wife?

[skorchio]

Hi Readers

 

I have a general question regarding US Social Security, I am asking on behalf of some extended Thai family members.

 

My wife's Aunt was married with a US citizen (he is/was Thai, moved to the US many years ago, became a US citizen) and he recently passed away in Thailand. They are married many years and have children here in Thailand, the children are now over 18 years of age. He was in his 70s and was receiving a monthly Social Security payment. Does anyone know if she is entitled to continued SS payments as his surviving Widow? She has never been to the US and obviously never worked there either. She will be 60 very soon.

 

Appreciate any feedback from anyone who knows the system

 

Thanks

[TerryLH]

1 hour ago, skorchio said:

She has never been to the US...

 

No, she is not eligible. 

She would have to have lived with him in the US for 5 years to be eligible.

[Pib]

As already mentioned she does not meet the 5 year resident requirement.

 

http://www.crevelingandcreveling.com/blog/what-expat-americans-foreign-spouses-need-know-about-social-security

 

Quote

 

While I receive Social Security benefits, can my foreign (non-U.S. citizen, non-green-card holder) spouse also receive spousal Social Security benefits if we live outside the United States?

Depending on your situation, spousal Social Security benefits may be paid to your foreign spouse. For any spouse who is not a U.S. citizen or green-card holder, the general rule is that Social Security payments must stop if the spouse has been outside of the U.S. for six consecutive calendar months. There are a number of exceptions that allow payments outside to the U.S. to continue, however, mostly based on either the receiver’s country of citizenship or residence. For example, for a foreign spouse to receive U.S. Social Security benefits:

1. Your foreign spouse must be of full retirement age and you, the retired U.S. worker, must be receiving Social Security benefits. (If your foreign spouse is at least 62, he or she may still be able to receive spousal benefits at a reduced rate.)
2. Additionally, if your spouse is a citizen (not necessarily a resident) of one of the following countries, there are no further requirements. He or she may receive ongoing Social Security spousal benefits outside of the United States:
   • Austria, Belgium, Canada, Chile, Czech Republic, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Korea (South), Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom
3. Alternatively, if your foreign spouse is a resident (not necessarily a citizen) of one of the following countries with which the U.S. has a Social Security agreement, there are also no further requirements and he or she may continue to receive Social Security spousal benefits:
   • Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Chile, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Korea (South), Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom
4. Five-year resident requirement: If your foreign spouse is neither a citizen nor resident of the countries listed above, he or she may still may be able to collect ongoing spousal Social Security benefits if the two of you lived together in the U.S. for at least five years while married (not necessarily continuously).

 

1.  

[Manassas]

When I married my Thai wife I was still working in the US. After 3 years I got her US citizenship, primarily for ease of travel. As noted above,  as a citizen, she is eligible to receive a SS benefits as a percentage of my benefits even though living in Thailand. It just worked out that way for us, but it will be a good source of dependable income for her when she reaches the minimum age.

[mania]

2 hours ago, Manassas said:

When I married my Thai wife I was still working in the US. After 3 years I got her US citizenship, primarily for ease of travel. As noted above,  as a citizen, she is eligible to receive a SS benefits as a percentage of my benefits even though living in Thailand. It just worked out that way for us, but it will be a good source of dependable income for her when she reaches the minimum age.

 

Similar to my wife

She has US citizenship but only worked 3-5 years I think in US

 

But I am not sure about minimum age

Do you mean 62? like we use for min age or 66

I think if you mean after your gone she could collect a partial of your benefit??

 

I think that can be started when they reach full retired age

Edited January 23, 2018 by mania

[Pib]

2 hours ago, Manassas said:

When I married my Thai wife I was still working in the US. After 3 years I got her US citizenship, primarily for ease of travel. As noted above,  as a citizen, she is eligible to receive a SS benefits as a percentage of my benefits even though living in Thailand. It just worked out that way for us, but it will be a good source of dependable income for her when she reaches the minimum age.

And if you croak before her, she will be able to receive the "full" amount you were receiving instead of the reduced spouse amount while you were living.  By spouse amount I'm assuming she didn't work 10 years in the US to qualify for SS based on her own earnings and was drawing a "spousal" SS pension based on your earnings.   

 

So, say you were drawing $2,000 per month in SS and the wife was drawing $1000 per month but you up and croak on her.  Well, her $1000/month pension will be replaced with your old $2000/month pension.  

 

Yeap, SS is definitely a nice thing.  Most people fully recover the SS taxes they  paid over their work carrier in 2-5 years.  Assuming a person lives longer than 2-5 after starting to draw SS, that a good durn return on investment (i.e,. pay SS taxes)....and the longer you live the better the return on investment becomes.  I know, preaching to the choir.

[mania]

Wow I did not know that Pib

 

Your saying even when husband is alive wife gets a % payment based on Husbands SS

(as long as a US citizen)

 

Then if husband passes away she gets full amount he use to get instead of her %

I have read she will get half of what Husband got before death

 

 

Edit: I guess so...Just saw this older article

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/12/18/social-security-spousal-benefits/3853325/

Edited January 23, 2018 by mania

[Pib]

41 minutes ago, mania said:

 

Similar to my wife

She has US citizenship but only worked 3-5 years I think in US

 

But I am not sure about minimum age

Do you mean 62? like we use for min age or 66

I think if you mean after your gone she could collect a partial of your benefit??

 

I think that can be started when they reach full retired age

 

She can start drawing at age 62 if desired.  Her SS payment would be approx 35% of your "full" SS benefit as if you had waited to your full retirement age in case you didn't until full retirement age to start drawing. 

 

The Social Security Agency calls your full retirement benefit, where if you had waited until you full retirement age, your Primary Insurance Amount (PIA).  The PIA is a key reference point for calculations such as reductions if retiring early, increases if delaying retirement, spousal pensions, etc.

 

Some people think the spouse pension is "referenced" to a percentage of  "whatever you are drawing" but it's not that way.    The spouse pension is referenced to what you would have got at your "full retirement" age whether or not you waited until then to start drawing.

 

If she waits until her full retirement age in the 66 to 67 ballpark then the max she can draw is 50% of your full benefit amount. 

 

Waiting beyond her full retirement age does not increase her percentage above 50% for a spousal pension.   It's not like a person who did work for at least 10 years to qualify for SS on their own record to where they can wait beyond your full retirement age if desired....wait up until 70 if desired to get a higher pension....and get a higher percentage for each year they wait.    A spousal pension maxs out at 50% of the earnings record it's based on...such as your earning records at your full retirement age....your PIA amount.

 

And when you croak before your spouse who is drawing  spousal pension based on your earnings record, her pension amount is replaced with your higher amount pension.  Say you were drawing $2K/month...she was drawing $750/month spousal pension...then her $750 pension is replaced with what you were drawing of $2K.

 

And in case the spouse is older than you and wants to start drawing the spouse pension at 62 before you turn 62, well, the spouse can not start drawing based on your earnings record "until you start drawing social security."    So, if the spouse turned 62 soon and wanted to start her SS pension but say you are only 58, well,  the earliest she could start drawing is age 66 "assuming your started your benefit 4 years later when reaching 62."  If you wanted to wait until you turn 67, then she got a 9 year wait until she is 71.   But if you try to make her wait to 71 she's probably going to kill you before then.   

 

And once again where I say "spouse or spousal pension" that means the spouse did not work long enough (at least 10 years) to qualify for a pension based on her own earnings record.  

 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Pib

[Pib]

I think this Forbes article does a good job of explaining a spouse SS pension.

 

 

[mania]

Thank You Pib that is a very clear & complete explanation you gave

 

Now I am glad we did go ahead with her US citizenship years ago.

 

We always wondered if it was money wasted because basically as soon as she became a US Citizen we moved back to Thailand

Although we are back in the US now we do plan to return to Thailand later this year

 

[Manassas]

"So, say you were drawing $2,000 per month in SS and the wife was drawing $1000 per month but you up and croak on her.  Well, her $1000/month pension will be replaced with your old $2000/month pension."

 

Like I said, my main reason in applying for citizenship for my wife was just to be done with all the visa/green card hassles. But as I was doing it I saw the info on SS. Right now we have my small pension. But soon I can draw my SS of an extra  (say) $2k. Then when she is of age she could draw $750/$1,000 without reducing my benefit. That's a lot of baht! Still not sure about when I'm gone what she gets, is it half of mine (1k)? or all of mine (2k)? 

 

Because of that I am looking at delaying starting to collect SS until closer to 66 rather than 62. There's a lot of calculators online to help determine your break-even age. But I'm weighing maxing her benefit more than mine. 

[Pib]

22 minutes ago, Manassas said:

 

Like I said, my main reason in applying for citizenship for my wife was just to be done with all the visa/green card hassles. But as I was doing it I saw the info on SS. Right now we have my small pension. But soon I can draw my SS of an extra  (say) $2k. Then when she is of age she could draw $750/$1,000 without reducing my benefit. That's a lot of baht! Still not sure about when I'm gone what she gets, is it half of mine (1k)? or all of mine (2k)? 

 

 

Let go to the future....say you are a 110 years old (but still hansum) and drawing $5k/month and the spouse is 105 years old drawing a $2K/month spousal pension.  

 

If you croak first the $2K she was drawing get replaced/upgraded to $5K/month...what you were getting before.     If she croaks first her pension stops and you continue with your $5K/month but can now go find another 105 year old.

 

 

[Pib]

21 hours ago, Pib said:

I think this Forbes article does a good job of explaining a spouse SS pension.

 

 

Here's another article that's also very good....maybe better than above article talking a spouse SS pension.

[Manassas]

I also saw on the Social Security website that they are fine with setting up a direct deposit into a Thai bank account. 

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, Manassas said:

I also saw on the Social Security website that they are fine with setting up a direct deposit into a Thai bank account. 

But the only Thai bank it can be done to is Bangkok Bank via their New York branch. 

See: http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/TransferingFunds/TransferringIntoThailand/ReceivingFundsfromUSA/Pages/ReceivingFundsfromUSA.aspx

[Pib]

The SSA makes benefit payments via the ACH funds transfer system which is the predominant electronic funds transfer system in the U.S. For Thai banks "only" Bangkok Bank has ACH receiving capabily..and you must open a special Direct Deposit acct with Bangkok Bank to receive U.S. govt payments.

[Manassas]

22 hours ago, Pib said:

The SSA makes benefit payments via the ACH funds transfer system which is the predominant electronic funds transfer system in the U.S. For Thai banks "only" Bangkok Bank has ACH receiving capabily..and you must open a special Direct Deposit acct with Bangkok Bank to receive U.S. govt payments.

I have already set this up between Bangkok Bank and my US bank. Whenever I want to transfer money I just tell my US bank. Saves a lot over wire transfer fees and only takes a couple of days. I prefer this over regular monthly transfers so I can try to catch the more favorable exchange rates. 

[mania]

26 minutes ago, Manassas said:

I have already set this up between Bangkok Bank and my US bank. Whenever I want to transfer money I just tell my US bank. Saves a lot over wire transfer fees and only takes a couple of days. I prefer this over regular monthly transfers so I can try to catch the more favorable exchange rates. 

I think this is also the better method for another reason

 

Not sure it is still in force but before if SSA deposits the check to Bangkok Bank then Bangkok Bank want you to come in to verify

your still here

 

But if SSA deposits into a US bank you can transfer anytime without the need to appear in BKB branch

 

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, mania said:

Not sure it is still in force but before if SSA deposits the check to Bangkok Bank then Bangkok Bank want you to come in to verify

your still here

When the transfer is received you have to go to the bank to withdraw or transfer the money to another account. It is how the bank covers themselves to avoid being held responsible if somebody was to die without the SSA being notified.

Going to the bank once a month is not that big a deal.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, mania said:

Not sure it is still in force but before if SSA deposits the check to Bangkok Bank then Bangkok Bank want you to come in to verify

your still here

 

 

That is still a requirement for the special Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit Account required to receive reoccurring U.S. govt payments like social security payments.

 

Many people prefer to go this route versus having it deposited to a U.S. bank account first and then periodically transferring funds to a regular Bangkok Bank savings account that does not have the requirement to appear in person at a branch to withdraw/transfer funds. 

 

As for one those who say they prefer to do periodic re-transfers so they can catch more favorable exchange rates, well, with the dollars consistent slide down over the past months and probable continued downward direction for more months he may be wanting a long time to do his next transfer.  Plus since most transfers take 1, 2, 3 or more days, what the exchange rate may look like on the day the money arrives will sure be different, maybe up, maybe down, from when a person initiated the transfer.  

 

I feel whether a person goes with a special direct deposit acct or regular account is really more a consideration of total fees incurred over time (as a fee each month does add up over a year)....not exchange rates.  And/or simply a person just don't want to rely on/deal with his U.S. bank to accomplish the re-transfer of funds.

 

Now for me, I use the method of periodic (but in-frequent) re-transfers from my U.S. banks to one of my Bangkok Bank accts....and I still have a special Direct Deposit acct also which I used briefly 9 or so years ago to receive a U.S. govt military pension when still deciding/testing methods as to how and when to get money to Thailand.   I mostly use several U.S. debit cards that have no foreign transaction fee and reimburse ATM fees.  And by using U.S. "credit" cards that do not charge a foreign transaction fee plus give 1.5% cash back I use them for as many day-to-day living expenses and occasional big purchases as possible--that greatly reduces the amount of money a person needs to transfer to Thailand. 

 

Now my wife who will starts social security this year she is going to go the special direct deposit acct....she just wants the money to appear monthly in her acct without any extra involvement on her part...taking her passbook to a branch to get money is fine with her....she opened the special acct last month just in preparation for filing her application with the SSO in Manila later this year. 

 

Yea, each person will have a different opinion on how important exchange rates, fees, possible restrictions off an acct,  involvement with banks, etc., is to them in getting a monthly payment from the U.S. govt.   And that opinion may change over the years...the person may switch back and forth between methods....I feel that's all OK as long as the person understands what they are doing and the associated pros and cons.   To each his own...it's a personal decision.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2018 by Pib