หมั่นไส้ (mun Sai)

[In the Rai!]

I was having a quiet beer with a friend yesterday, and my friend asked me what หมั่นไส้ (mun sai) is in English. I know when to use it but I can't for the life of me (and couldn't) think of a good English equivelant.

It is sort of like หมั่นเขี้ยว (mun kiyow) very hard to explain and we dont just have 1 word for it. Whereas เขี้ยว meaning fang (eye tooth in English) I just want to bite you (not literaly) I cant think of how to explain หมั่นไส้

any help?

cheers ITR

Edited January 19, 2007 by In the Rai!

[Briggsy]

Would this best be translated as a facial expression (sort of screwed up face) and sounds (sucking your breath in and clicking).

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Translation is also hindered by the fact that this phrase can be used in a range of situations.

My dictionary offers "to be disgusted".

[Nilapat]

I've often wondered about how to translate this into English. My dictionary also gives along the lines of 'to be disgusted' but I think that's a bit harsh. Most people usually use it more lightly.

The best I can come up with would be 'gross!', as used by (UK) teenagers.

[meadish_sweetball]

With the right intonation and facial expression (bit of a grin), both '(that's) disgusting' and 'gross' could work... in some contexts, 'Get a room, you two' would be appropriate too.

In Thai, it is used jokingly when somebody is displaying something to be jealous of, such as a new car, new clothes, new mobile phone, a special personal privilege etc... also when a couple are showing affection in public (hence 'get a room'), or when somebody is proven to be right (could be after an argument about something).

The person is showing mocking disapproval by saying หมั่นไส้ - but it is ironic in the way that the person saying it often would not mind trading places with the object of their disapproval.

...it can also be used in a serious non-joking way, in which case it might even mean something 'I hate (that, him, her them'. (Note that this could be used ironically in English as well...)

[Roy Jing]

Could it be something like "disapprove".

[Neeranam]

exasperating

annoying

aggravating

maddening

[Neeranam]

If someone is trying to suck up to somebody too much (like to the boss, or your mother-in-law, to win Brownie points), people might gossip:

OO-EE MAN SAI...MAN SAI JING JING อุ๊ยหมั่นไส้...หมั่นไส้จริงๆ - Oh man you got to be kidding me, can you believe this guy?

Or maybe - 'don't be cute'

[bannork]

If someone is trying to suck up to somebody too much (like to the boss, or your mother-in-law, to win Brownie points), people might gossip:

OO-EE MAN SAI...MAN SAI JING JING อุ๊ยหมั่นไส้...หมั่นไส้จริงๆ - Oh man you got to be kidding me, can you believe this guy?

Or maybe - 'don't be cute'

I asked a Thai friend about this once and they said the same thing, for instance sucking up to the boss, in English English we might say,'What a creep'' What a bootlicker', ' what a t.at' etc, but American English they will say something else, it seems hard to pin down.

The same with ทุเรศ which the dictionary says means 'disgusting'. I gave the example recently from the newspaper where a celebrity had to apologise to the townfolk for using this word over the microphone to describe parents rushing forward, jostling to take photos of their dear little ones in a parade. In this occasion we might say'unseemly' but another occasion will demand another word.

The peplexities of languages!

[Tywais]

With the right intonation and facial expression (bit of a grin), both '(that's) disgusting' and 'gross' could work... in some contexts, 'Get a room, you two' would be appropriate too.

In Thai, it is used jokingly when somebody is displaying something to be jealous of, such as a new car, new clothes, new mobile phone, a special personal privilege etc... also when a couple are showing affection in public (hence 'get a room'), or when somebody is proven to be right (could be after an argument about something).

The person is showing mocking disapproval by saying หมั่นไส้ - but it is ironic in the way that the person saying it often would not mind trading places with the object of their disapproval.

...it can also be used in a serious non-joking way, in which case it might even mean something 'I hate (that, him, her them'. (Note that this could be used ironically in English as well...)

Excellant explanation meadish. Just had a 10 minute discussion about this with one of the Thai professors here and he had a great deal of difficulty explaining it.

One example: A little girl wearing her mothers shoes and clothes and prancing about. The mother may say หมั่นไส้

Another example: An office with secretaries - one secretary is kissing up to the boss and another one shaking her head and glancing at the other secretaries and saying หมั่นไส้ in an exasperated tone. Sort of tsk tsk kind of way.

He also indicated an man can say it regarding a female but not to another man, while a female can apply it to both genders.

And another: If you watch those Thai comedy shows with the 'feminine' male, you will hear him saying หมั่นไส้ often and flicking his hair.

Seems to a very complex word to explain. He never could find an English equivalent, but said disgusting was not correct.

[Nilapat]

I guess sickening could be used. This keeps the ??? element. (e.g. nausea = ????????)

Ooops. Guess I need to work on how to use Thai whenI post.

Edited January 19, 2007 by Nilapat

[In the Rai!]

I guess sickening could be used. This keeps the ??? element. (e.g. nausea = ????????)

Ooops. Guess I need to work on how to use Thai whenI post.

Thats a good one Nilapat, "sickening" in certain circumstances could most definately be used and it is not as harsh as "disgusting"

ITR

[aanon]

If someone is trying to suck up to somebody too much (like to the boss, or your mother-in-law, to win Brownie points), people might gossip:

OO-EE MAN SAI...MAN SAI JING JING อุ๊ยหมั่นไส้...หมั่นไส้จริงๆ - Oh man you got to be kidding me, can you believe this guy?

Or maybe - 'don't be cute'

hey neeranam, i think your "Oh man you got to be kidding me, can you believe this guy?" is one of the best attempts to find a close equivalent so far. there's no real revulsion, no strong perjorative statement being made, it's just sort of drawing someone's attention to what's going on, something that slightly irks you.

in other situations it might be like "would you have a look at this guy, he's really asking for it!", for example a classmate starts being provocative, gets called หมั่นไส้, then gets a whole lot of pencils and screwed up paper balls thrown at him. it's something like ไอ้นี่มันน่าถีบจริงจริ๊ง!

as far as หมั่นเขี้ยว, when used with a small baby, along with cuddling and หอม ing, perhaps it's close to "ooh, i could just eat you right up!". i have a vague memory of my mum nibbling my ears as a baby, so maybe this penchant for baby consumption crosses cultures .

interestingly, i just talked to a thai person (from bkk) who was telling me the pronunciation was หมันไส้....หมั่นไส is definitely listed in my dictionary so....are there two pronunciations, or is she mistaken?

[meadish_sweetball]

I definitely hear the low tone and not the rising tone up here in CM, for whatever that's worth.

[Tywais]

I definitely hear the low tone and not the rising tone up here in CM, for whatever that's worth.

When I was talking to my uni friend about this, at first he couldn't make out what I was saying without context. Then he blurted out mahn sai, with the ไส้ clearly a falling tone (high to low) and he exaggerated it some to be sure I said it right. Also, thai2english shows it as a falling tone. Wonder if it is just a variation in Chiangmai (he's originally from Bkk).

[meadish_sweetball]

The second word is definitely the falling tone, I meant the first word...

Sorry, I now see where the confusion comes from. In anon's post it says หมันไส้ and หมั่นไส ...

I think neither is correct, and that it should be หมั่นไส้

[aanon]

The second word is definitely the falling tone, I meant the first word...

Sorry, I now see where the confusion comes from. In anon's post it says หมันไส้ and หมั่นไส ...

I think neither is correct, and that it should be หมั่นไส้

yes, sorry about that, i got lazy and used copy and paste and lost a tone marker somehow....anyway, what i meant to say was that หมั่นไส้ is in my dictionary, but what this friend (and her brother now) are saying is the first word is pronounced หมัน. They're from bkk but spent their early lives in Suphan, so maybe it's a bit of เหน่อ-ness coming through? that said, i know them well and i don't find that they พูดติดเหน่อ, though their mum definitely does.

or maybe it's like "home in on" and "hone in on" in english, where people get by fine with either, but one of them most likely เกิดจากการเพี้ยน from the 'correct' other.

or they're just wrong.

[Alkoh0liker]

Out of my 26years living-in-Thailand-experience and speaking Thai fluently, it means definetly in an ironic way "I hate you/it/them..."

[In the Rai!]

Thanks guys, I appreciate all of your help.

As you can see it is not the easiest, and does not have a direct translation. I love these Thai words where it takes 5 or 6 (or more) words to explain the English meaning.

I do like sickening though (in a non literal sense) as in someone brown nosing to the boss. To watch him/her is sickening.

Cheers again

[luckyfarang]

The second word is definitely the falling tone, I meant the first word...

Sorry, I now see where the confusion comes from. In anon's post it says หมันไส้ and หมั่นไส ...

I think neither is correct, and that it should be หมั่นไส้

-

หมั่นไส้ man(l)-sai(f) - - This is the correct pronounciation, both from my dictionary and from hearing it in real life

The literal meaning seems to be "disgusting, gross, to be disgusted", but it is frequently used sarcastically to mean just the opposite,

in which case it means the same as man(l)-khiao(f) หมั่นเขี้ยว, which roughly translated means: I could just eat you up!

[SoloFlyer]

pissed off/ pissing me off / etc ??

[meadish_sweetball]

pissed off/ pissing me off / etc ??

Well, not too far away, but still not quite there. 'pissed off' is a mild curse, หมั่นไส้ is not.