Time to stand in line at CM immigration

[XGM]

14 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Now prepare yourselves for the second saga, Zoo 2.

When are they moving?

[NancyL]

36 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

When immigration began preparing premises for the move to Promenada everyone thought the immigration process would flow with ease from then on, lots of waiting room, the Promenada facilities to make their wait more pleasurable, with still the same amount of slots available so that most were certain they would get their business done within a reasonable time without stress and not too much inconvenience. But as we know things didn`t quite work out that way, at first people had to queue outside come rain or shine, they substantially cut the available slots and all this created a bonanza for the agents. Except for now being able to wait inside the building the situation has hardly improved. Remember, it was you that nicknamed this place, the zoo, even apparently sending and trying to encourage us to write to our embassies explaining how bad the situation had become.  But suddenly you have changed your tune, now you are saying going through the immigration process at Promenada is a day out, although there is no disputing Chiang Mai immigration can be the most expensive or most stressful in the whole country.

 

Now prepare yourselves for the second saga, Zoo 2. I guess the new near airport facility will be more involved with the private sector and dealings with agents and the system will sway more of us towards using agents that will be able to charge whatever they feel fit to charge. If you really believe once the new building is in operation applicants will be able to arrive at reasonable times and have a nice stroll around the Airport Plaza into the bargain then you are living in dream land. Wake up, smell the coffee and brace yourselves it`s going to be a rough and much more expensive ride.

 

 

I have never called Imm. "the Zoo", even when we had to queue up next to the penned goats at Promenada.  I believe it was E/S who coined that term.  I'd like to think I had something to do with the goats being removed.  And yes, the emails to your Embassies and Consulates had a effect.  This Imm. office still has major problems, but they brought in a layer of management from Bangkok that has made improvements in the past year.  

[cyberfarang]

7 minutes ago, NancyL said:

I have never called Imm. "the Zoo", even when we had to queue up next to the penned goats at Promenada.  I believe it was E/S who coined that term.

Whatever or whoever coined that term; The Zoo, I`ll coin the next installment as; The Circus. It`s going to be a cash cow for a few, and will involve more expense, stress and inconvenience for the rest of us sheep. 

[scottiejohn]

The old Imm office at the Airport has been called the "Zoo" and many other names including "Ponderosa" and "Tenko" since at least the late 1990's when I first started to use what are now called agents.  Then called "Lawyer's Assistants" etc.

 

Don't blame either NancyL or Eventevens for the "Zoo" nickname.

 

PS;  Ponderosa was a Programme about  US Cowboy Family/Ranch and Tenko was about a WW11 Japanese POW camp. That is what it resembled then and still does now!

Edited January 27, 2018 by scottiejohn

[idman]

All I can say is thank God for the numerous visa assist services here in Chiang Mai and for me to have the financial resources to avail myself of their services.  Complaint all you want about Immigration, you either deal with it, move to another country or use a visa assist service.

[CMBob]

2 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Now prepare yourselves for the second saga, Zoo 2. I guess the new near airport facility will be more involved with the private sector and dealings with agents and the system will sway more of us towards using agents that will be able to charge whatever they feel fit to charge. If you really believe once the new building is in operation applicants will be able to arrive at reasonable times and have a nice stroll around the Airport Plaza into the bargain then you are living in dream land. Wake up, smell the coffee and brace yourselves it`s going to be a rough and much more expensive ride.

The new building appears to have 8-10 times the space as the old little blue single-story there (now used for Burmese temp workers) and there is no reason to believe that services won't be better once all the officers are housed in one building with adequate space.  I actually believe services will be better in the new facility but it's possible that won't happen (your suggestions that the new facility will be more involved with the private sector/agents or that services will be more expensive and/or worse appear not to be based on anything other than some personal irritation/cynicism). 

 

The new building, I'm told (last week by an officer in Building 3 when I was updating my TM30 Receipt of Notice). will be open this coming August.  He also indicated that even the Building 3 staff will move into the new building.  I didn't ask what will become of Building 3.  

Edited January 27, 2018 by CMBob

[Sparkles]

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 3:40 PM, evenstevens said:

from very recent reports that c.m. immgr dept have improved their services in .most areas to say a year ago.we  still have the complainers as above .but  i guess the c.m immgr dept cannot please everyone a very nice arvo to all

Perhaps if you read the City Life archived interview with CM Imm you might be able offer a more substantial response but I realise that might be a step to far for you.

As for me mentioning the logical step to reduce 90 day reporting queues that is not complaining its a positive step forward for those who choose not to use Agents but dont have a clue that the mail in option is available.

[beavercreek]

5 hours ago, NancyL said:

Yeah, but they don't show films, have a bank, sell electronics or serve nice meals at the "airport" office.  I'm going to miss Promenada, but I'll benefit from the exercise in walking to and from Central Airport Plaza for the same time-killing pursuits. I'd rather plan a "day out" and spend my money with businesses in the mall than give it to a visa agent to do what I'm perfectly capable of doing myself.

1) it is all of 600 m to Airport Plaza, from Immigration.  Even a 7-11 along the way.  Hardly a death march.  2). I will never spend one Baht at "PollockNada" as long as I live, based on the very disrespectful way I have been treated, while a guest there.  They knew damn well lighting was needed and protection from the basement mosquito farm.  A pretty sorry ass selection of stores, too.  Airport Plaza has a great selection of banks and is much easier for almost all of us to get to.

[scottiejohn]

48 minutes ago, CMBob said:

The new building appears to have 8-10 times the space as the old little blue single-story there (now used for Burmese temp workers) and there is no reason to believe that services won't be better once all the officers are housed in one building with adequate space.

So what? 

At Prom the Imm Dept had the chance to rent as much space as they wished or need  to accommodate their staff and the "Customers" (us). 

Nothing appears to have changed. I believe it may have got worse after the move to Prom.  

I see no reason to believe it will change with the relocation back to the airport area now unless they streamline the so called "service" and employ many more qualified staff capable of doing the job and sticking to one set of Thailand wide rules and regulations which do not change at the whim of the desk jockey on duty on the day(s) of your visit(s).

 

I will stick to during my 20/30min annual visit (wherever), as prearranged by my agent for my annual extension.

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

So what? 

At Prom the Imm Dept had the chance to rent as much space as they wished or need  to accommodate their staff and the "Customers" (us). 

Nothing appears to have changed. I believe it may have got worse after the move to Prom.  

Nope, its quite big enough , I have been there on days when its empty , no customers there .

[scottiejohn]

11 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Nope, its quite big enough , I have been there on days when its empty , no customers there .

We are not discussing size!  The size of the building/offices is not relevant as I said in my earlier post.

CM Imm Dept could have had all the space they wanted at prom (with appropriate funding of course).

All the extra space available to them then and since (they did appear to expand after they opened at Prom) has NOT improved their service and I see no evidence that that is likely back at the Airport location.  The Building size, and to a lesser extent it's location is immaterial if the appropriate staff and services are not available.

 

If the service was efficient you would not need to worry about where you were going to waste the unwarranted and ridiculous waiting time hours at either films or window shopping (neither of which I like).  You should have a reasonable expectation of the length of time each process will normally take and be able to plan accordingly. 

 

They must streamline the stupid duplicated forms/rules, employ more qualified/trained staff and apply all the rules and regulations evenly throughout Thailand.

[beavercreek]

You mean they actually pay rent?  I figured it was the only way they could get some foot traffic at the poorly planned mall.

[evenstevens]

2 hours ago, Sparkles said:

Perhaps if you read the City Life archived interview with CM Imm you might be able offer a more substantial response but I realise that might be a step to far for you.

 

with a reply as above, surely you need reminding its Year 2018 not 201? and in my view you are dwelling in the past,but in any case have a nice evening

[Dante99]

1 hour ago, scottiejohn said:

 

 

 

They must streamline the stupid duplicated forms/rules, employ more qualified/trained staff and apply all the rules and regulations evenly throughout Thailand.

Thank you Yahweh for the eleventh commandment.

[jimgilly]

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 4:34 PM, NancyL said:

They definitely looked over and wanted a copy of my TM30 receipt when I did my annual retirement extension this past week at Promenada and sent people up to the 2nd floor to sort out  their TM30 before giving them a queue ticket if they didn't have a TM 30 receipt.

Nancy, I've been renting the same house for 10 years now and have not left the country since I arrived.  Never heard about the TM 30 before and doubt the owner of the house has either.  I file my 90 day reporting by mail and have never had any problem. 

 

Last 2 years used GT4 but not willing to fork out 5000 baht this year for a little added convenience.  I've got to do my retirement extension next week and I'm not sure what I need to do regarding the TM 30.  Would definitely appreciate your advice on this.

 

Thanks

Jim

[NancyL]

6 hours ago, jimgilly said:

Nancy, I've been renting the same house for 10 years now and have not left the country since I arrived.  Never heard about the TM 30 before and doubt the owner of the house has either.  I file my 90 day reporting by mail and have never had any problem. 

 

Last 2 years used GT4 but not willing to fork out 5000 baht this year for a little added convenience.  I've got to do my retirement extension next week and I'm not sure what I need to do regarding the TM 30.  Would definitely appreciate your advice on this.

 

Thanks

Jim

Jim, I'm a little surprised that G4T didn't walk you through the TM30 process last year.  I suggest you go to do your retirement extension ASAP -- remember you can apply up to 45 days before expiration of your previous extension -- and see what happens if you don't want to pay a visa agent to assist you again.  You'll probably be referred upstairs to the 2nd floor office where TM30s are processed, and with any luck, given some advice (and let's hope a document) that tells you want documents you and your house owner need to submit to obtain a TM30.  If you're humble and act willing to comply and pay the "standard" 1600 baht fine, then it should be OK.  Remember -- ignorance of the law is no excuse.   

[NancyL]

Jim, if you think your house owner isn't going to help, then you can move into a guest house temporarily, carefully selecting a guest house that is willing to file a TM30 for you.  Many are able to do this online and will give you a "print screen" that shows they filed for you.  You take this to Imm. and use it as your TM30 receipt.

[jimgilly]

18 minutes ago, NancyL said:

Jim, I'm a little surprised that G4T didn't walk you through the TM30 process last year.  I suggest you go to do your retirement extension ASAP -- remember you can apply up to 45 days before expiration of your previous extension -- and see what happens if you don't want to pay a visa agent to assist you again.  You'll probably be referred upstairs to the 2nd floor office where TM30s are processed, and with any luck, given some advice (and let's hope a document) that tells you want documents you and your house owner need to submit to obtain a TM30.  If you're humble and act willing to comply and pay the "standard" 1600 baht fine, then it should be OK.  Remember -- ignorance of the law is no excuse.   

Nancy,  since G4T never brought up the need for a TM30 is it possible they checked on me and found no problem? 

 

Also, after reading more about the TM30, isn't this form supposed to be completed by the house owner and aren't they responsible for paying any fine? 

[Trujillo]

I was asked at the retirement desk if I had a TM30. I pulled out my prepared documents that the upstairs agent freely told me I would need -- form filled out by the landlord, a copy of his ID card and copy of the house registration book and a copy of the lease. 

The ladyboy helper took one look at all this and said, "Not that," and reached back and got a completed stack of papers from some other retiree and showed me, very briefly, an elongated stub of paper looking like a receipt. 

She/he put that away and I said, "I have never seen that before in my life." 

There was a short discussion between she/he and the main official there and he said something (in Thai) to the effect that since I was living at a Chiang Mai address, it wasn't necessary. 

I didn't question anything as it appeared that I dodged that bullet...so after the new extension, I go out to get the documents checked for the re-entry permit and the girl says, "Where's your TM30?" And I wave my hand dismissively and say, "Oh, that was all taken care of inside." 

That throws them for a second but then off I go to get the permit and nothing more is said about the elusive TM30. 

 

Someone wrote: "...no reason to believe that services won't be better once all the officers are housed in one building with adequate space..."

 

Um, sorry to point this out, but the same cast of characters inhabiting immigration will be the same no matter where the office is. 

And I assume they will have the same canned voice calling out numbers and directing them to "count-ree" number such and such. You'd think that it would be easy to record over that and actually have it say, "counter," but I guess they figure that either they don't want to go through the bother or they enjoy being laughed at silently. 

The amount of wasted time there and officials sitting doing absolutely nothing is astonishing (aside from seeming to come to work at more or less any time they feel like it, as long as it's before 10am).

A time and motion study expert would have a coronary watching the place. 

 

By the way, the new agent in the old spot where G-whatsit was is more expensive than G-whatsit. Quite a bit, actually. 

G-whatsit is now called Best Friend Visa and they had my number on file from last year. They will even come to your house and review your documents and do everything and then tell you when to come pick up the visa/re-entry. 

I didn't use them this time since I, like others, thought, "Why spend 4,000+ baht on something I can easily do myself?"

 

[beavercreek]

We have been hearing 5000 and told it was called Thian or some such

Vietcong sounding name.

[jimgilly]

3 hours ago, NancyL said:

Jim, if you think your house owner isn't going to help, then you can move into a guest house temporarily, carefully selecting a guest house that is willing to file a TM30 for you.  Many are able to do this online and will give you a "print screen" that shows they filed for you.  You take this to Imm. and use it as your TM30 receipt.

Nancy, if I did this could they check and see I have been at the same address for 10 years and question me as to why I have a TM30 from a guest house and then maybe ask me if I still am living at my current house address? 

 

The guest house sounds like a possible solution to quickly get a TM30 but not if it leads to bigger problems if immigration starts asking questions.

[EricTh]

12 hours ago, jimgilly said:

Nancy,  since G4T never brought up the need for a TM30 is it possible they checked on me and found no problem? 

 

Also, after reading more about the TM30, isn't this form supposed to be completed by the house owner and aren't they responsible for paying any fine? 

Different officers will tell you different things.

 

The female officer at TM 30 asked me to photocopy this and that and take a new number because i can't reuse the q number. When i got back, she refused to take my case and pushed me to the male officer who always come late every morning.

 

He told me different thing so i had to come another day.

 

It seems that the male officer is the one who is more senior but a man of very few English.

 

Imagine having to q two times the same day, for several hours only to be told a different story and get more documents another day.

 

They just can't communicate effectively their exact requirement. I had one staff from Thian listing out the requirement but that's not what the male officer wanted.

 

This TM 30 is a new requirement which wasn't there in 2016. They make a lot of new requirements every year and more paperwork. Thai officers love more paperwork .....

 

Edited January 29, 2018 by EricTh

[scottiejohn]

12 hours ago, NancyL said:

Jim, if you think your house owner isn't going to help, then you can move into a guest house temporarily, carefully selecting a guest house that is willing to file a TM30 for you.  Many are able to do this online and will give you a "print screen" that shows they filed for you.  You take this to Imm. and use it as your TM30 receipt.

I am amazed that you are suggesting that someone commit a crime by making a false declaration that will be spotted the minute Imm ask for his rent agreement at his next retirement renewal

[scottiejohn]

9 hours ago, jimgilly said:

Nancy, if I did this could they check and see I have been at the same address for 10 years and question me as to why I have a TM30 from a guest house and then maybe ask me if I still am living at my current house address? 

 

The guest house sounds like a possible solution to quickly get a TM30 but not if it leads to bigger problems if immigration starts asking questions.

You will get In trouble if you take NancL's advice.  I have been in that situation and had to go thru the whole change of address and Temp POA (for change of address) process when I used a third party address as my original TM30 registration.  This included a threatening letter from my agent pointing out to the owner that the Owner was breaking the law by not "assisting" and if they did not sign the POA they would be reported to the relevant Authorities.

[jimgilly]

1 hour ago, scottiejohn said:

You will get In trouble if you take NancL's advice.  I have been in that situation and had to go thru the whole change of address and Temp POA (for change of address) process when I used a third party address as my original TM30 registration.  This included a threatening letter from my agent pointing out to the owner that the Owner was breaking the law by not "assisting" and if they did not sign the POA they would be reported to the relevant Authorities.

So what's the answer?  Contact my landlord and let him know he needs to go to immigration and complete a TM30 for me? 

 

He also bought the house from the original owner I had a rental agreement with, that has long expired and I never got a new contract, so basically I don't have a current rental agreement either.

[XGM]

The TM30 is required by law. 

Enforcing that law is done according to the moods and whims of immigration officials and their superiors.

 

I am yet to visit Chiang Mai immigration, but in several years of doing yearly extensions (based on marriage) in Bangkok, I faced completely different requirements each year.

 

Two years ago I had to provide not only the rental contract but also the purchase agreement of the condo by landlord from the previous owner, the Chanot, and even her marriage certificate, because the condo was owned by both her and her husband!! In that time I also had to provide the TM30 receipt and what not. Of course I didn't have all those, it was the first time I heard anyone was asked for such documents, and so I had to return on another day. I was lucky my landlord cooperated.

 

Last year, I decided to collect everything that was ever required, in advance. The woman was surprised to see I arrived with those documents and didn't even bother to look at them. TM30 was not required either.

 

Bottom line, my conclusion is that there are two approaches:

 

1. Go with what you've got and be prepared to be sent back for whatever is deemed missing by that official. That way you save time in initial preparations but there is a big chance you'd need to make two visits. Or, maybe you'll get lucky.

 

2. Try to collected everything you can think of. More preparations but with a larger chance to complete the process on the same day. Still a grumpy officer may always ask for more.

Edited January 29, 2018 by XGM

[XGM]

13 minutes ago, jimgilly said:

So what's the answer?  Contact my landlord and let him know he needs to go to immigration and complete a TM30 for me? 

The landlord doesn't need to go to immigration, he just needs to fill the form and sign it. You can take it to immigration and get the receipt. At least that's what I did when I rented a condo in Bangkok. You can download those forms.

 

In my gated community here in Chiang Mai, they take care of it on their own though. About a week after we moved in they did it and gave me the receipt of the TM30 without me having to ask or even mention it.

Edited January 29, 2018 by XGM

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 9:42 PM, beavercreek said:

not in high season..I was there for TM30 update on November 1..a Tuesday.  At 14:30, you would have been too late for a number to do a 90 day report, they probably would have laughed at you if you had asked about an extension.

Season is irrelevant for extensions.

 

Whatever, it's ridiculous for someone to claim that because on the day THEY went it was quiet it will be quiet every day.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, XGM said:

The TM30 is required by law. 

Enforcing that law is done according to the moods and whims of immigration officials and their superiors.

 

I am yet to visit Chiang Mai immigration, but in several years of doing yearly extensions (based on marriage) in Bangkok, I faced completely different requirements each year.

 

Two years ago I had to provide not only the rental contract but also the purchase agreement of the condo by landlord from the previous owner, the Chanot, and even her marriage certificate, because the condo was owned by both her and her husband!! In that time I also had to provide the TM30 receipt and what not. Of course I didn't have all those, it was the first time I heard anyone was asked for such documents, and so I had to return on another day. I was lucky my landlord cooperated.

 

Last year, I decided to collect everything that was ever required, in advance. The woman was surprised to see I arrived with those documents and didn't even bother to look at them. TM30 was not required either.

 

Bottom line, my conclusion is that there are two approaches:

 

1. Go with what you've got and be prepared to be sent back for whatever is deemed missing by that official. That way you save time in initial preparations but there is a big chance you'd need to make two visits. Or, maybe you'll get lucky.

 

2. Try to collected everything you can think of. More preparations but with a larger chance to complete the process on the same day. Still a grumpy officer may always ask for more.

The only way they get away with utter garbage like that is because there is no appeal process by which stupid requirements invented by imm officers can be challenged.

[NancyL]

I fail to see how it is illegal to decide to move to a guesthouse several days before your retirement extension is due.  Maybe your wife got tired of you and tossed you out.  Maybe you decided to remodel the place and moved out temporarily while the job was being done.  Maybe some friends came from overseas and you decided to join them at the guest house since there wasn't sufficient room in your house and the guest house was more centrally located for tourist activities. Any number of reasons why you decided to take up temporary lodging in a guesthouse.