Maintaining That 100,000 Baht Pm Lifestyle

[ColPyat]

Col - I think that Firefan makes some very valid points about stocks.

I guess so.

My problem though would be that before i would invest in them, i would actually have to learn what 'shares/unit trusts', 'furtures', 'options', 'blue chips' and all the other esoteric terms actually are. But as soon as somebody tries to explain them to me i get sudden attacks of narcolepsy.

I just stay with the simple stuff. Land is land, and a house is a house, and they will always be that as long as you don't buy in the middle of a warzone. If it makes me a stable income and is worth something, i am contend.

[Heng]

Heng - so this is where you are hiding. How's the ยาดม business going? Have you taken over your soi yet?

Desertexile, do I know you? Doing okay as I stick by the most important rule of the biz... never inhale your own inhalers. And no, because we owned it all to begin with.

[manjara]

i really don't understand why the op is being attacked for asking about a standard of living 100k baht provides. As he said this will include travel, entertainment, housing and basic running cost. I for one can say with a family of 3 that 100k goes very quickly and quite frankly i can not run my modest household on that amount. also when people compare salaries with teachers at 25k that is not real as real teachers earn 100k including, housing, and airfares home.

Here, here. I have a family here in Thailand (2 kids) and pay myself 100k from my company. It never lasts the month, though god knows where it goes. I have a maid that we pay 6k, and mortgage on the condo is 23k. The rest gets pissed away on Pampers, baby milk, clothes, restaurants and various bills. I worked out we needed about 150k to be safely in the black, but I would not say we have an extravagant lifestyle, wasteful, yes, but extravagant, no.

If I didn't have kids, then 100k would do nicely, but with kids, you need at least 50k per kid/month to be comfortable.

[meom]

I left LOS at 28 and am coming up 33 now. I'll hit targets by 38. No kids, just herindoors.

That's a great accomplishment because unless I've missed something you're basically saying that you will save 670K in ten years or average 54K at 5% a year. Once you hit 38 you could work another 10 years and save close to 1.8million. That ain't bad either

[SamuiJens]

Back to the flat renting..

Someone mentioned six flats in Scotland at 100k each. Bad idea. It means six lots of tennants, six lots of maintainance.

Way too much hassle. Cheap flats=rubbish tennants(rule of thumb).

Renting a one/two bedroom flat in London at £550.00 a week will get you a proffesional person/couple, who will not piss you about.

I know, I rent flats in London.

I tell my tennants that they must maintain the flat themselves, and any expendature(?) can be deducted from the rent and invoice to be posted to me. So far this has cost me £172.00. Not bad for 10 years of renting.

Rent to proffesionals, but make sure you get refferances. Extremelly important.

Also, these type of tennants tend to rent for a few years at a time.

I can understand they only rent a few years at a time, with you as the landlord!

[chiang mai]

Well according to the TV poll results it seems that you are in the minority if you do not have a 100,000 baht or better life style, interesting.

[Naam]

3% is very conservative and 6% a bit agressive. Let's pick 5%. So if one wants 100k Baht($2850 at rate 35B/$) then one needs $570k being about half of the Pounds 670k mentioned. Even at the very conservative 3% $950k is enough.

Investing as above does NOT require anyone to sit and stare into multiple PC screens 24/7!

true Firefan! but let me be arrogant (no offence intended!) and state that achieving a yield of 5% p.a. shouldn't be a problem for an average intelligent housetrained dog :~)

except for 2006 which returned a "meagre" 16% yield my average yield achieved over the last 15 years was never less than 25% p.a.; in two exceptional years (1999 and 2002) i doubled my holdings. these kind of results make it mandatory to watch the screens as long as markets are open and spend time to evaluate markets after they are closed.

worthwhile to mention is that i never touched (YUCK!) stocks/shares but concentrated on the rather tiny section of emerging market sovereign bonds. but the good times when those bonds yielded 15-25% are over and now i am broadly invested in corporate HY-bonds (more thana dozen countries and different branches, fifty different corporates) and of course cash in various currencies. to minimize risk none of my individual holdings exceed 2% of the total.

Edited January 23, 2007 by Dr. Naam

[Briggsy]

3% is very conservative and 6% a bit agressive. Let's pick 5%. So if one wants 100k Baht($2850 at rate 35B/$) then one needs $570k being about half of the Pounds 670k mentioned. Even at the very conservative 3% $950k is enough.

Investing as above does NOT require anyone to sit and stare into multiple PC screens 24/7!

true Firefan! but let me be arrogant (no offence intended!) and state that achieving a yield of 5% p.a. shouldn't be a problem for an average intelligent housetrained dog :~)

except for 2006 which returned a "meagre" 16% yield my average yield achieved over the last 15 years was never less than 25% p.a.; in two exceptional years (1999 and 2002) i doubled my holdings. these kind of results make it mandatory to watch the screens as long as markets are open and spend time to evaluate markets after they are closed.

worthwhile to mention is that i never touched (YUCK!) stocks/shares but concentrated on the rather tiny section of emerging market sovereign bonds. but the good times when those bonds yielded 15-25% are over and now i am broadly invested in corporate HY-bonds (more thana dozen countries and different branches, fifty different corporates) and of course cash in various currencies. to minimize risk none of my individual holdings exceed 2% of the total.

The figures you are quoting here make you very much the exception and not the rule. Firefan referred to "inflation + 5%". Have you deducted inflation from your yield statements? An average annual yield of 25% over 15 years is some going.

Edited January 23, 2007 by Briggsy

[popshirt]

Also you need to factor in your age and how much you wish to leave to loved ones.

"Retire now, die broke". Why the need to leave something for the loved ones?

rgds

I couldn't agree more. Besides, when you are REALLY OLD, you don't need money!

[Desertexile]

Also you need to factor in your age and how much you wish to leave to loved ones.

"Retire now, die broke". Why the need to leave something for the loved ones?

rgds

I couldn't agree more. Besides, when you are REALLY OLD, you don't need money!

Unless ofcourse you or your Mrs are sick......then you're ######ed.

I'd need more in retirement then when Im working

[OlRedEyes]

except for 2006 which returned a "meagre" 16% yield my average yield achieved over the last 15 years was never less than 25% p.a.; in two exceptional years (1999 and 2002) i doubled my holdings.

Dunno Dr. Naam. With a track record like that, you'd agree, one would think you'd be a world-famous portfolio manager. Certainly with no time or inkling to post on an expat forum like this?

[Desertexile]

I foound htis part of the pole really interesting:

From the two opposite ends of the spectrum.

The chat who called me a jerk and earns 'nearly twice' the Mclass Thai family falls into the 10.9% section.

Dr. Naam and his tasty income falls into the 10.7% section which suprises me.

And somewhere in between with my 100K aim sees me fallinging in the 25.3 % section - the most common section.

So then, it appears that my goal is pretty much in line with the majority of respondents current gigs...... food for thought that.

13. What is your yearly income in Thai Baht (THB)?

Response PercentResponse Total - 200,000 THB5.9%158 200,000 - 300,000 THB4.3%116 300,000 - 500,000 THB10.9%293 500,000 - 1,000,000 THB21.1%568 1,000,000 - 2,000,000 THB25.3%679 2,000,000 - 3,000,000 THB14%375 3,000,000 - 5,000,000 THB10.7%287 5,000,000 + THB7.9%212Total Respondents 2688(skipped this question) 316

[bendix]

I foound htis part of the pole really interesting:

From the two opposite ends of the spectrum.

The chat who called me a jerk and earns 'nearly twice' the Mclass Thai family falls into the 10.9% section.

Dr. Naam and his tasty income falls into the 10.7% section which suprises me.

And somewhere in between with my 100K aim sees me fallinging in the 25.3 % section - the most common section.

So then, it appears that my goal is pretty much in line with the majority of respondents current gigs...... food for thought that.

13. What is your yearly income in Thai Baht (THB)?

Response PercentResponse Total - 200,000 THB5.9%158 200,000 - 300,000 THB4.3%116 300,000 - 500,000 THB10.9%293 500,000 - 1,000,000 THB21.1%568 1,000,000 - 2,000,000 THB25.3%679 2,000,000 - 3,000,000 THB14%375 3,000,000 - 5,000,000 THB10.7%287 5,000,000 + THB7.9%212Total Respondents 2688(skipped this question) 316

As has been pointed out elsewhere, desertexile, don't take those income figures too seriously. It's highly likely that many of those are income figures of posters NOT LIVING IN THAILAND.

A survey which could show the incomes of members living in Thailand would be more insightful. As this thread (and its associated atmosphere of envy) suggests, there aren't many members pulling in the 100,000 you are wisely targeting.

And those members who do tend to keep quiet about it for fear of being attacked for bragging, in the same way you were attacked for having ambition.

Edited January 23, 2007 by bendix

[davidjtayler]

I foound htis part of the pole really interesting:

From the two opposite ends of the spectrum.

The chat who called me a jerk and earns 'nearly twice' the Mclass Thai family falls into the 10.9% section.

Dr. Naam and his tasty income falls into the 10.7% section which suprises me.

And somewhere in between with my 100K aim sees me fallinging in the 25.3 % section - the most common section.

So then, it appears that my goal is pretty much in line with the majority of respondents current gigs...... food for thought that.

13. What is your yearly income in Thai Baht (THB)?

Response PercentResponse Total - 200,000 THB5.9%158 200,000 - 300,000 THB4.3%116 300,000 - 500,000 THB10.9%293 500,000 - 1,000,000 THB21.1%568 1,000,000 - 2,000,000 THB25.3%679 2,000,000 - 3,000,000 THB14%375 3,000,000 - 5,000,000 THB10.7%287 5,000,000 + THB7.9%212Total Respondents 2688(skipped this question) 316

The only thing wrong with that analogy Mr Desert is in the survey that is the amount earnt not the amount spent per month ... and as Bendix has rightly pointed out probably earnt outside of Thailand.

Edited January 23, 2007 by davidjtayler

[Briggsy]

Well spotted David, I missed that obvious one.

In fact the OP would have an income of 600,000 pounds * 5% = 30,000pa = 2500 per month = 177500 Baht.

Same category though.

Aagh, no, it's not. 30000 * 71 = 2,130,000 Baht pa which is the next category up.

Edited January 23, 2007 by Briggsy

[Desertexile]

Yeh - you are right guys. Posted in haste!

So, being new to the baord, how could I post an annonymous survey based on the income of those in Thailand?

I'd guess the average of that froup to be perhaps 50-60k?

[Desertexile]

Well spotted David, I missed that obvious one.

In fact the OP would have an income of 600,000 pounds * 5% = 30,000pa = 2500 per month = 177500 Baht.

Same category though.

Aagh, no, it's not. 30000 * 71 = 2,130,000 Baht pa which is the next category up.

I was working it along the same lines Briggsy but to be on the safe side worked on:

1 GBP = 60 THB

5% interest = 3% extracted to make up the magic 100K THB and the remaining 2% reinvested to cover inflation. So 100K figure would rise yearly.

....

Edited January 23, 2007 by Desertexile

[bendix]

Yeh - you are right guys. Posted in haste!

So, being new to the baord, how could I post an annonymous survey based on the income of those in Thailand?

I'd guess the average of that froup to be perhaps 50-60k?

Not possible i think. it's been tried, but the threads generally degenerate into accusations of lying, name-calling and petty envy.

Lots of fun!

[Firefan]

He,he - good one Bendix!

Funny that 1 poster finds that making 5% (+yearly inflation adjustments) is something a house-dog could do, while another thinks it is Warren Buffet level!

All HISTORICAL (which is all we have) studies show that a 5% return(+annual infl. adjustments) from a globally and asset class wise well diversified portfolio will do just fine. Now that does NOT mean pulling 8% of the nest egg if inflation is 3%! It means that next years withdrawal will be 5.15%.

Why so low some ask? - Because the nature of the markets is that one can have several down years/high volatility and HISTORICALLY pushing beyond the 6%(with infl. adjustments) will in most cases have lead to empty nest egg before 30 years in retirement.

Cheers!

[BAKABAS]

I can't really break it down mate - its not an exact science. I have a house in Thailand so the 100K would go on living expenses, sanook, travel and all that. Really, 20K GBP is not much if you fancy getting a plane for an overseas holiday or a local jolly. I spend much more than that when I'm on a month long jolly to Thailand nowadays....

I guess you know what the average Thai person gets?

I know many people with families, car and house re-payments etc who have a happy life on 20,000 baht. You need five times that for living expenses - what a jerk.

A 'Jerk' because I want to live well? Because I want to travel abroard twice a year and provide a comfortable life for my family?

I don't want to live like an average 3rd world family. That's why I work so hard.

Just like you, I too know many Thail families - I too converse well in Thai and understand their thinking. However, buddy, in your attempt to become Thai you have forgotten one major factor. There isn't a Thai in Thaialnd that would consider me a 'jerk' for wanting to maintain a great lifestyle.

Each to there own Neernam - go back to your Kow man gai bud, I fancy a cold beer at the polo club and then a trip down to Samui with my Mrs.

Dreamer ,Jerk or whatever.Any person with the capability of living that " great lifestyle " wouldn't bragg about it ( especially to fellow Thai lovers ) unless they were a tosser.

If it is true however, I'm jealous.

[bendix]

Dreamer ,Jerk or whatever.Any person with the capability of living that " great lifestyle " wouldn't bragg about it ( especially to fellow Thai lovers ) unless they were a tosser.

If it is true however, I'm jealous.

I'm convinced 80% of the active posters on Thaivisa can't read.

Listen BAKABAS. Read the thread again. He is not boasting that he has 100,000 to live on. He is getting views on whether members thought his plans to get enough to get to that point SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE, made sense.

Anyway, let's be frank. 100,000 a month is not enough to boast about

[ColPyat]

Dreamer ,Jerk or whatever.Any person with the capability of living that " great lifestyle " wouldn't bragg about it ( especially to fellow Thai lovers ) unless they were a tosser.

If it is true however, I'm jealous.

Sorry, but 100 K is nothing to brag about, just about lower to average middle class in the west, and slightly upper middle class here in Thailand.

Not a great lifestyle either, especially if you have family. I just did a family holiday in Europe, only the 3 airlines tickets - cheapo airline, economy - cost about 90 K. Even though staying with my family in the west i still had substantial additional costs. Nothing you can possibly afford every year if you are on that money, and don't want to pinch every penny for the rest of the year.

100 K a month does not allow you to aqcuire any valuable assets that might secure your old age or unforeseen events such as serious medical difficulties, or schooling for your kids in quality equal to what is free in most western countries.

Some things are very cheap here, but that gets equalised by others that are extraordinary expensive, such as good schools.

[bendix]

Sorry, but 100 K is nothing to brag about, just about lower to average middle class in the west, and slightly upper middle class here in Thailand.

Wash your mouth out, ColPyat.

It is a ThaiVisa article of faith that a farang can live like a king for 10,000 in Thailand. Anyone who doesnt is boasting, wasteful, bullshitting, and arrogant in the extreme.

[Beavis and Butthead]

Sorry, but 100 K is nothing to brag about, just about lower to average middle class in the west, and slightly upper middle class here in Thailand.

Wash your mouth out, ColPyat.

It is a ThaiVisa article of faith that a farang can live like a king for 10,000 in Thailand. Anyone who doesnt is boasting, wasteful, bullshitting, and arrogant in the extreme.

No one, I mean no one lives like a kind on the pittance of 10K in Thailand. Only in their wildest fantasy they do.

[younghusband]

For Brits such as myself who have been out here for a long time, its useful to remember how rich the UK has become in the last twenty years.Obviously there are regional disparities but by any reasonable standard the country is very rich and professionals are very well paid.Bt 100,000 pm (say Pnds 17,000 pa) would be the starting salary for a 22 year old graduate.A reasonably successful lawyer or accountant would be on Pnds 60,000 pa(say Bt 350,000 pm) by their early 30's.My nephew who is 35 and works for a London investment bank earns Pnds 250,000 (say Bt1.45m pm) including bonus.Doctors on average earn well over Pnds 100,000 pa (say Bt580,000pm).And so it goes on.

Why does this surprise anyone? My sinking feeling is that an underclass which earns nothing like these sums is growing -ugly,boorish, uneducated and angry.

[Beavis and Butthead]

Dreamer ,Jerk or whatever.Any person with the capability of living that " great lifestyle " wouldn't bragg about it ( especially to fellow Thai lovers ) unless they were a tosser.

If it is true however, I'm jealous.

Sorry, but 100 K is nothing to brag about, just about lower to average middle class in the west, and slightly upper middle class here in Thailand.

Not a great lifestyle either, especially if you have family. I just did a family holiday in Europe, only the 3 airlines tickets - cheapo airline, economy - cost about 90 K. Even though staying with my family in the west i still had substantial additional costs. Nothing you can possibly afford every year if you are on that money, and don't want to pinch every penny for the rest of the year.

100 K a month does not allow you to aqcuire any valuable assets that might secure your old age or unforeseen events such as serious medical difficulties, or schooling for your kids in quality equal to what is free in most western countries.

Some things are very cheap here, but that gets equalised by others that are extraordinary expensive, such as good schools.

I'll back you up on that, colyprat, I spend 100K/month just for the priviledge of living in a nice place in BKK the way I want to. I have no car and live frugally with my gf

[ColPyat]

Sorry, but 100 K is nothing to brag about, just about lower to average middle class in the west, and slightly upper middle class here in Thailand.

Wash your mouth out, ColPyat.

It is a ThaiVisa article of faith that a farang can live like a king for 10,000 in Thailand. Anyone who doesnt is boasting, wasteful, bullshitting, and arrogant in the extreme.

I have had times where i had to live for a while on something like 10 000 Baht a month here. One can manage, but it's not exactly a life i would wish on anyone. Presently life is better though, and i am glad about it.

And i wish to add, i feel very bad about that most people have to manage on this or even less than this for their entire life, even though they work extremely hard. I think that there is a vast injustice in the value of labour and production, and they do have a reason to be angry.

But what can i do about it other than trying to help people in my immediate surrounding to reach a position in which maybe they could get one day the chance to have a better life?

[bendix]

Why does this surprise anyone? My sinking feeling is that an underclass which earns nothing like these sums is growing -ugly,boorish, uneducated and angry.

Those people are no longer in Britain. They are walking the streets of lower Sukhumvit and Pattaya right now.

[Firefan]

Ah, those 100k Baht per month rich snobs flying around in their Lear jets consuming only caviar and champagne!

The money spend on international school(20k?), house big enough for kids(40k?), transport(10k?),1 homeleave (160k/year) for 4. Flights ONLY,intl. health insurance for 4 (120k/year), other insurances(5k) Etc. leaves nothing - and the above nos are not un-realistic. If one OWNS the house there might still be a mortgage and maintance costs, staff costs, garbage removal and who knows what.

For a SINGLE person or even couple with no kids - happy with a 1 bed room - many of the above nos will fall dramatically without changing the persons standard of living at all.

Anyway; this thread was about obtaining Baht 100k/mth from Pounds 670k while increasing nest egg with inflation. No problem! In fact very, very conservative. (2.5% safe withdrawal rate).

Cheers!

[Neeranam]

If I didn't have kids, then 100k would do nicely, but with kids, you need at least 50k per kid/month to be comfortable.

Oh dear! I'm having my second child in a couple of weeks and don't get 50,000 for all of us.

Your definition of comfartable is obvioulsy much different to mine. 50,000 and I would be comfortable.

When both my kids are in secondary school, I'd say I'll need maybe 5,000 per kid.

I don't earn a lot of money but it's my choice. I could have remained a petroleum engineer in Scotland for 20 years and retired very rich here when I was 50. Then again I would probably be dead.

I was miserable with my expensive sportscar and can't identify with the 'bread-heads'. Each to their own.

The following story kinda sums it up for me:-

The American investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellow fin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The fisherman replied, only a little while.

The American then asked why didn't he stay out longer and catch more fish?

The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs.

The American then asked, "but what do you do with the rest of your time?"

The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos, I have a full and busy life."

The American scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat with the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats, eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually NYC where you will run your expanding enterprise."

The Mexican fisherman asked, "But, how long will this all take?"

To which the American replied, "15-20 years." "But what then?"

The American laughed and said that's the best part. "When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions."

"Millions.. Then what?"

The American said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos."

Good luck to the OP.

Edited January 23, 2007 by Neeranam