SURVEY: Do you want Trump to finish his first term?

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, JestSetter said:

I said "decent public figures" who could make a difference. Arnold Schwartz. and Reagan are not whom I am think about, but I guess we could say that the Rep. used that strategy then. It is up to the left and the centre to imitate, I guess. The more decent will get solicited more. Social media to talking face to face. Use your imagination.

 

Not true. Maybe they are not as decent as they say they are then. If they cannot walk the talk then bye bye. If they are courted, they might oblige. 

 

I am sorry. That has been happened since the publication of the first newspaper and since schooling became obligatory. It is happening now and it has not changed. In fact, we could say that the evidence is that the situation is getting worse. Trump anyone?

 

I know this is a reasonable approach, but has it worked? Read about perseverance bias. There is not a hope in hell you can convert most people to change their position. It would be tantamount to admitting that they are idiots for most of them.

 

Beside, how many people read this? At the same time, you could say the same about the way I go about this. I cannot compete with Bloomberg. I am hoping someone on social media will run with it. I will do my part and contacting whoever I feel is a decent human being. It is a wild shot in the dark, I admit. It is better than the status quo and hoping that people will educate themselves though, I think. 

You are clear on what you think won't work.  You have yet to present a coherent plan that will work. 

 

Ideals without a workable plan are nothing but security blankets for privileged idealists that don't want to get their hands dirty.

Edited July 1, 2018 by heybruce

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, JestSetter said:

The problem is how the US government continues to meddle into other countries' business. I read 78 as I speak (source: RT, Going underground, investigative journalist). This HAS TO STOP. The world bank and the IMF,...  meddle also. It has happened for decades. Enough. Americans should not export their crap, exploit people and situations. Most of what is imported is religious-based or ideological -based. There is a financial component as well, of course. Hollywood is soft propaganda too. Watch Hollywood DC. No other nation in the world does this like the US. What they are doing STINKS. However, other nations are slowly fighting back. People are slowly getting what is going on. How many American movies involve guns, the military, or the CIA/FBI? Coincidence? How many are re-writing history? How many are showing dysfunctionality? Enough!

 

 The immigration issues in Europe was caused --by and large-- by the US meddling in the Middle East. Russians going into Afghanistan? That is different.

Yeah, yeah, yeah...the world sucks and it's all America's fault.  Sitting high above the fray and going "Tsk, tsk" doesn't accomplish anything.  What are you going to do about it? 

 

Edit:  I just picked up on "RT", as in Russia Today.  A propaganda tool pretending to be a newspaper.  Are you a fool who believes RT, or are you working from a troll farm and attempting to confuse intelligent discussion of issues?

Edited July 1, 2018 by heybruce

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

That's because you don't see that the damage to the US has already been done. Trump is merely step one in the reckoning or maybe the last slide down before the reckoning.  It won't just be the US either. The bill's come due. 

Are you implying you are part of a mysterious cabal who knows more than others and what will come?

 

If not, try posting in specifics, not useless generalities.

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

An "everything is rotten" rant designed to generate apathy.  To what end?

 

A multi-party system with two dominant parties is what we have.  Until the election system is changed, either by using run-offs when no party achieves an out-right majority, or using a ranked--choice voting system   https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/06/14/in-praise-of-ranked-choice-voting  it is what we are stuck with. 

 

Voting for the least bad candidate is not appealing, but it is better than wasting votes.  Rodriguez Duterte, President of the Philippines, was elected with 39% of the vote in a four way election.  The US could easily get someone like that if people don't vote intelligently.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

You're thinking short term as almost everyone does. Yes, the 3rd party may be a spoiler in the short run. But there's a level where people like yourself will change over. What if the 3rd party is polling at 20% and your favored candidate is polling at 30%. What have you got to lose by voting for the third party if you think they are the better candidate? It's not like your candidate is going to win, is it?

Surviving the short term is important.  You think government of law under a constitution guaranteeing fundamental rights will survive in spite of any opportunistic populist elected.  I don't. 

 

In the general election use your vote intelligently to vote for the best, or least bad, candidate that has a realistic chance of being elected. 

 

During the primaries use your vote to change the system by voting in an informed and intelligent manner for a candidate of change--for example for candidates promising meaningful campaign finance reform and open to the idea of ranked choice voting.

 

You do make the effort to inform yourself and vote in the primaries, don't you?

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

Data doesn't do away with ignorance, nor does knowledge which is derived from data. Understanding, which is derived from knowledge does, because it allows you to connect the data to seemingly disconnected things. From that stems perspective and hopefully, eventually, wisdom.

In other words, you posted something stupid, now you're trying to cover up for the fact.   Knowledge, derived from information (data), is the opposite of ignorance.  One can not be informed and ignorant at the same time.

 

The conclusions one draws from knowledge requires rational analysis.  Discussions about the meaning of wisdom is pointless and off-topic.

[lannarebirth]

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

Are you implying you are part of a mysterious cabal who knows more than others and what will come?

 

If not, try posting in specifics, not useless generalities.

No, not at all. I don't think  know more than others, or at least some others but I think I understand more because I don't really have any attatchment to outcome to color my judgement.

 

[bristolboy]

21 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

I think people need to eschew taking on more data, both objective and subjective and instead open their eyes a bit wider.

Does this mean anything? What is subjective data and if it's subjective, how does one take it on?

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, lannarebirth said:

No, not at all. I don't think  know more than others, or at least some others but I think I understand more because I don't really have any attatchment to outcome to color my judgement.

 

Please, your political allegiances are clear and your claim to political detachment belied by your penchant for Hillary bashing and your partiality for right wing economists. And of course, your professed support for single payer healthcare means you do have an attachment to outcomes.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, lannarebirth said:

No, not at all. I don't think  know more than others, or at least some others but I think I understand more because I don't really have any attatchment to outcome to color my judgement.

 

You don't have an attachment to the future of the US, and, by extension, the world?

 

I never could relate to nihilists.  I don't think we will find common ground.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

You don't have an attachment to the future of the US, and, by extension, the world?

 

I never could relate to nihilists.  I don't think we will find common ground.

I have even less for both faux nihilists and DINOs.

[riclag]

Surly the world would rather not  have PT making anymore decisions that threaten liberal ideology/humanity   . One person can end it all,with one report,he has the presidency in the palm of his investigated hands. Why wait! Why let democracy flounder,like a fish out of water. We been told by the dem's that there is evidence of Interference by PT. Before he chooses another conservative SCJ ,show it now, let our people go!

 

[Jingthing]

So I wonder if "trump" fans still think he deserves a Nobel prize and that NK is no longer a nuclear threat as 45 absurdly barked now that there is evidence of fresh construction at a missile site in NK?

 

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[Different]

No, I hope Trump resign or get impeached because so far he is withdrawing from world climate change and trade agreements.

It seems Trump eventually will help screw America going back to point A.

 

Point B: Trump and his supporters show the ugly side of USA.

[riclag]

16 minutes ago, Different said:

No, I hope Trump resign or get impeached because so far he is withdrawing from world climate change and trade agreements.

It seems Trump eventually will help screw America going back to point A.

 

Point B: Trump and his supporters show the ugly side of USA.

He would resign if the key man makes the report, now,if there was evidence of wrong doing(Russian Interference) or obstruction,of course.The more this carries on the more destruction and misery PT will create with the world. Example, if you know someone committed a crime and can prove it and they are set on destroying democracy. Stop him now! 

Edited July 2, 2018 by riclag

[FritsSikkink]

Trump's USA:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dollar45000-per-year-private-school-in-uproar-over-plan-to-segregate-students-by-race/ar-AAzrNyq?ocid=spartandhp

[Starnight]

Yes, l want him to remain in the prison the rest o his term.

 

 

[Jingthing]

Battle royale coming.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-is-the-fight-of-our-lives-heres-how-we-win-it/2018/07/01/ce282750-7bbd-11e8-93cc-6d3beccdd7a3_story.html

 

"This is the fight of our lives. Here’s how we win it

...

The future of abortion rights is central to the coming battle. But so are civil rights, corporate power and our democratic capacity to correct social injustices. Conservatives should not be allowed to distract attention from the aspects of their agenda that would horrify even many who voted for Donald Trump."

 

 

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[Jingthing]

What did you do in the war Daddy?

 

 

"We have seen this movie before, and it doesn’t end well.

...

This isn’t a matter of “It Can’t Happen Here.” It is happening here and elsewhere. And it is happening because the world has amnesia."

 

https://forward.com/culture/404016/trump-is-what-happens-when-we-forget-neverforget/

 

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[Jingthing]

Cohen is FLIPPING! 

Michael Cohen must be making Donald Trump very nervous right about now

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/02/politics/michael-cohen-donald-trump/index.html

Edited July 2, 2018 by Jingthing

[Opl]

" MSNBC makes hilarious commercial to sell fake ‘Trump’s Greatest Words’ CD of phrases Trump repeats"

"the clips of some of the president’s favorite words are part of “a comprehensive 143 disc set. Like most things for sale on television, the fake ad then encouraged viewers to call soon and they’d throw in two bonus CDs and one of Trump’s sound effects, such as, “bing, bing,” and “bong.”

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/07/msnbc-makes-hilarious-commercial-sell-fake-trumps-greatest-words-cd-phrases-trump-repeats/

Edited July 3, 2018 by Opl

[Becker]

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-07-02/donald-trump-s-ineptitude-is-no-joke

[Andaman Al]

20 hours ago, riclag said:

He would resign if the key man makes the report, now,if there was evidence of wrong doing(Russian Interference) or obstruction,of course.The more this carries on the more destruction and misery PT will create with the world. Example, if you know someone committed a crime and can prove it and they are set on destroying democracy. Stop him now! 

Do you seriously think that Mueller or the DOJ will allow Trump to "resign' and be pardoned? The only way to heal America from this cancer is to expose to Trumps base what a true badass he is and how they have been conned in to following a traitor to the USA. Mueller and his team are going to bury Trump and his family without trace and that will take some time and some engineering.

 

After the Benghazi investigation had been going a year why did you republicans not all shout "if you have no evidence now then stop the investigation"? Oh no, you had the investigation go on for TWO AND A HALF years - with not one charge or indictment. Was that Trey Gowdy letting HRC 'off the hook"? The Mueller investigation has 13 indictments , many guilty plea's and we have not even got to the serious bit. Just hang on and your desire to see charges will be overwhelmingly satisfied.

[wayned]

I would think that Mueller would obtain sealed indictments against Trump, any of Trump's family, and inner circle and wait to un-seal them after he is no longer President, either by impeachment (doubtful), resignation (doubtful) or completion of his Presidency.  Once he is no longer President he no longer has the power to pardon them.

[EVENKEEL]

I like the fact he's calling out countries for free loading on UN dues, strong on immigration, calling bull shit without being afraid of consequences. That's right, the New Sheriff is here to stay.

[heybruce]

27 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I like the fact he's calling out countries for free loading on UN dues, strong on immigration, calling bull shit without being afraid of consequences. That's right, the New Sheriff is here to stay.

The UN dues the US pays are a trivial cost for the influence the UN gives us in the world, his policies against illegal immigration are mostly effective in embarrassing the US, his policies on legal immigration will hurt the US economy, and he doesn't call bullshit, he generates it.

 

Face it, you like Trump because you enjoy the "Trump Show"; you don't bother to inform yourself on the issues.

[EVENKEEL]

8 minutes ago, heybruce said:

The UN dues the US pays are a trivial cost for the influence the UN gives us in the world, his policies against illegal immigration are mostly effective in embarrassing the US, his policies on legal immigration will hurt the US economy, and he doesn't call bullshit, he generates it.

 

Face it, you like Trump because you enjoy the "Trump Show"; you don't bother to inform yourself on the issues.

If it's so trivial let others pay their fair share, his policies on immigration hasn't changed much, just enforcing the laws on the books. I stopped worrying about what others think decades ago, it's called growing up.

[Jingthing]

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-07-02/donald-trump-s-ineptitude-is-no-joke

Excellent article but "trump fans of they even read it will just call it fake news.

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[Silurian]

How public discourse has evolved devolved in the Reality TV president era...

 

 

[Silurian]

Winning!!!

 

Giuliani - Shunned by NYC

Dershowitz - Shunned by friends

WH staffers - Can’t get dates

WH staffers - Can’t eat out

Cohen - Fighting for life

Flynn - Career ruined

Manafort - Dying behind bars

Hicks -$500k legal bills

Stone -$500k legal bills

 

Aren't they proud to have been part of MAGA!

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by Silurian

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

I like the fact he's calling out countries for free loading on UN dues, strong on immigration, calling bull shit without being afraid of consequences. That's right, the New Sheriff is here to stay.

It is not that he is unafraid of consequences, he does not have the brain power to consider what the consequences of his actions will be. The "easy to win" trade war as a prime example. The "no threat anymore from North Korea" as an other. He is a moron.

 

45 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

If it's so trivial let others pay their fair share,

They do. The US do not give any military support to any of the peace keeping missions, other countries provide it. The cost of the UN Headquarters in NY and the thousands of delegates, clerks and Ambassadors that are employed there is a multi billion dollar economy that is ploughed back into the New York Economy. All the pensions from every member of the UN - ever, are invested in a fund worth hundreds of billions of dollars in..........the USA. Hundreds of US small business exist providing all manner of services to the UN.

 

Yup, I agree, let the US off the burden, I say pull it all out of the US and stick it in Europe or Switzerland or London.

 

Trump has NO idea what the UN does or is worth, he THINKS the US pay a lot because he has always seen the UN occupying prime time New York real estate that Trump really wants. Is there a pattern setting in yet?