EU tells Britain: Time has come to make a Brexit choice

[webfact]

EU tells Britain: Time has come to make a Brexit choice

 

The British flag flies next to European flags at the European Commission in Brussels, Belgium December 8, 2017. REUTERS/Yves Herman/Files

 

LONDON (Reuters) - The European Union's chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier said on Monday that the time had come for Britain to make a choice on what sort of relationship it wanted with the bloc after Brexit.

 

"The only thing I can say: without a customs union and outside the single market, barriers to trade and goods and services are unavoidable," Barnier said. "Time has come to make a choice."

 

Barnier said he wanted the United Kingdom to clarify its position on what the future relationship would be. Britain's Brexit Secretary David Davis said he was confident he could get agreement on a transition by the March EU summit.

 

(Reporting by Guy Faulconbridge and Kate Holton, editing by Andrew MacAskill)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-02-06

[smedly]

I think the UK is leaving 

 

can you come up with something different ?

 

over to you

[Samui Bodoh]

I also think the UK is leaving (a bad idea, but...)

 

The question is what comes after the departure? If the UK is smart they will try very, very hard to get some kind of free trade agreement in place to ensure that the damage they face is mitigated somewhat. 

 

Simply put, I do not see any other trade blocs that they can join; swallow some pride and be nice to the EU on the hope that they give favourable terms.

 

The UK is, or ought to be, in extreme damage control mode at the moment...

 

[wombat]

they made  a choice ....it was called brexit by the majority 

 

[brewsterbudgen]

they made  a choice ....it was called brexit by the majority 
 

A slim majority that could be overturned in another referendum. Once the disastrous consequences of leaving the Single Market and Customs Union are fully understood, another vote is inevitable.

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[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

A slim majority that could be overturned in another referendum. Once the disastrous consequences of leaving the Single Market and Customs Union are fully understood, another vote is inevitable.

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I don't think it's inevitable. The political situation seems to make it rather unlikely. Of course, if public opinion takes a huge swing against it, the could make a difference. 

[leither69]

33 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

A slim majority that could be overturned in another referendum. Once the disastrous consequences of leaving the Single Market and Customs Union are fully understood, another vote is inevitable.

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Do we vote and vote until we get an outcome you like!!  It was decided, thats it done and dusted

[alant]

24 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

A slim majority

But a majority and that's how the system is.

With just about every bit of media trying to have a go at Brexit the UK keep confounding the scaremongers by refusing to collapse.

Meanwhile media remoaners will still not answer or comment on such questions or items as the fact the EU will see a bigger loss to its trade without an agreement or explain why it is not good to leave an protectionist block that has led to a negative balance of payment whilst in membership.

[wombat]

The question is what comes after the departure? 

havent you been paying attention to the fact that China now has a free trade agreement with UK.

the rest of the world is right behind them beating a path to the door

 

[ilostmypassword]

15 minutes ago, leither69 said:

Do we vote and vote until we get an outcome you like!!  It was decided, thats it done and dusted

I know what you mean? That's why when Britons vote for parliament that's set in stone for all time and no do-overs. After all, democracy means never getting to say you're sorry.

[brewsterbudgen]

22 minutes ago, leither69 said:

Do we vote and vote until we get an outcome you like!!  It was decided, thats it done and dusted

Of course we do.  Circumstances and opinions change.  The referendum was only advisory anyway, and was a huge miscalculation by Cameron as a sop to the extreme right of the Tory party.  Parliament would be well advised to ignore the result in my opinion, but obviously this would be extremely difficult to do politically.  A General Election could settle it, if Labour had the courage to be in favour of Remaining.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, leither69 said:

Do we vote and vote until we get an outcome you like!!  It was decided, thats it done and dusted

 

What hypocrisy! So any vote with an outcome you like then becomes a one off, never to be voted on again, never ever does it?

 

Not how democracy works. And not how our representative democracy is supposed to work.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, alant said:

But a majority and that's how the system is.

With just about every bit of media trying to have a go at Brexit the UK keep confounding the scaremongers by refusing to collapse.

Meanwhile media remoaners will still not answer or comment on such questions or items as the fact the EU will see a bigger loss to its trade without an agreement or explain why it is not good to leave an protectionist block that has led to a negative balance of payment whilst in membership.

 

What "system" ? Referendums are not part of UK parliamentary procedure and special legislation was passed to facilitate that specific referendum. Legislation which described the referendum result as being advisory; which failed to apply any rules regarding required winning margins and voter turnouts, and most certainly said nothing about being irreversible or something that could never be voted on again.

 

A slim, very slim majority voted for Brexit on a referendum that was advisory. But feckless, dishonest politicians, with their own agendas, have and are using it as an excuse to try and change the UK and its constitution to something they prefer. When the public wake up, it will be too late, and the politicians will simply blame it all on Brexit.

[jinners]

6 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I also think the UK is leaving (a bad idea, but...)

 

The question is what comes after the departure? If the UK is smart they will try very, very hard to get some kind of free trade agreement in place to ensure that the damage they face is mitigated somewhat. 

 

Simply put, I do not see any other trade blocs that they can join; swallow some pride and be nice to the EU on the hope that they give favourable terms.

 

The UK is, or ought to be, in extreme damage control mode at the moment...

 

Not been following this very much have you? UK have gone to the EU on bended knee bowing and scraping for a deal which would appease the bureaucratic nightmare that is the EU and its unelected chiefs. 23rd of June 2016 the British people voted to leave. Mrs Maybe and her team have meanwhile been dillying and dithering and this is where it gets you. The EU still shouting and threatening. 

The EU sell much more to the UK than the other way around. There is a far higher percentage of trade on offer outside of the EU with its stifling controlling regs. 

If push comes to shove go on to WTO tarriffs. <deleted> em, UK will be absolutely fine.

[smedly]

6 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I also think the UK is leaving (a bad idea, but...)

 

The question is what comes after the departure? If the UK is smart they will try very, very hard to get some kind of free trade agreement in place to ensure that the damage they face is mitigated somewhat. 

 

Simply put, I do not see any other trade blocs that they can join; swallow some pride and be nice to the EU on the hope that they give favourable terms.

 

The UK is, or ought to be, in extreme damage control mode at the moment...

 

and you don't think the EU will be damaged when they loose one of their only 4 net contributors never mind the trade that many countries in the EU heavily rely on with the UK

 

The damage will be mitigated both ways which is why there will be a deal 

[smedly]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

What "system" ? Referendums are not part of UK parliamentary procedure

they are when the government decides to have one

[natway09]

His request is not unreasonable.

The UK want their cake & eat it too.

Why should the EU allow free trade once they have left the bloc ?

Just as NZ & Australia who got left in the lurch when the joined the EU should think very carefully when the UK Trade Commission comes knocking on their door (which they have already) but as they do not yet have any plan they got told to come back when you know what is going on

[dunroaming]

9 hours ago, smedly said:

I think the UK is leaving 

 

can you come up with something different ?

 

over to you

The EU have been consistent from day one and all Barnier is doing is re-iterating their position.  The Brexit team are flip flopping about as they have done since the start of this mess.  What is the point of saying "over to you"?  Their position is clear and they are asking Britain to decide what they want to do.

 

For May to keep proclaiming that we are leaving the customs union (just to placate the Brexiteers and stop a leadership challenge) she is digging herself and the country into a deeper hole.  How on earth she can keep her word to Ireland, given her current rhetoric, is beyond me. Will we see the UK leaving the customs union only to have a "new bespoke" customs union created?  Just the same except in name.

 

So many questions and no clear answers.

 

[smedly]

7 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

The EU have been consistent from day one and all Barnier is doing is re-iterating their position.  The Brexit team are flip flopping about as they have done since the start

the UK is very clear, leaving, they don't have to agree anything with the EU, it really is that simple

 

The EU is in no position to make idiotic demands

 

The media are making it a circus not the Tories 

[dunroaming]

12 minutes ago, smedly said:

the UK is very clear, leaving, they don't have to agree anything with the EU, it really is that simple

 

The EU is in no position to make idiotic demands

 

The media are making it a circus not the Tories 

Difficult to understand your point.  The UK are leaving.... Yes that is clear.  The EU has said what their position is on Britain leaving the EU, consistent from day one... that is clear.

 

It is now time for Britain to propose what they want from the divorce and that is not clear at all.  You say that the UK don't have to agree anything with the EU and that is true.  I don't have to wear a parachute when I jump out of a plane but I would be very stupid not to.  Same with May and the gang.  She would have to be profoundly stupid to walk away without any agreement because that would be tantamount to suicide, not just for her but for the country too.

 

None of this is hard to grasp.

 

 

[brewsterbudgen]

Difficult to understand your point.  The UK are leaving.... Yes that is clear.  The EU has said what their position is on Britain leaving the EU, consistent from day one... that is clear.
 
It is now time for Britain to propose what they want from the divorce and that is not clear at all.  You say that the UK don't have to agree anything with the EU and that is true.  I don't have to wear a parachute when I jump out of a plane but I would be very stupid not to.  Same with May and the gang.  She would have to be profoundly stupid to walk away without any agreement because that would be tantamount to suicide, not just for her but for the country too.
 
None of this is hard to grasp.
 
 

And that is exactly what is so appalling about the hard-core Brexiters. Leave the EU no matter what the cost is to the country and young people's future in particular.

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[smedly]

18 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Difficult to understand your point.  The UK are leaving.... Yes that is clear.  The EU has said what their position is on Britain leaving the EU, consistent from day one... that is clear.

 

It is now time for Britain to propose what they want from the divorce and that is not clear at all.  You say that the UK don't have to agree anything with the EU and that is true.  I don't have to wear a parachute when I jump out of a plane but I would be very stupid not to.  Same with May and the gang.  She would have to be profoundly stupid to walk away without any agreement because that would be tantamount to suicide, not just for her but for the country too.

 

None of this is hard to grasp.

 

 

the EU position ?

 

the EU has actually no say in the matter, as I have told you before - the UK is leaving the EU not the EU leaving the UK

 

what part of that don't you understand, I find it very simple indeed 

[ilostmypassword]

20 minutes ago, smedly said:

the EU position ?

 

the EU has actually no say in the matter, as I have told you before - the UK is leaving the EU not the EU leaving the UK

 

what part of that don't you understand, I find it very simple indeed 

Yep, the EU is prostrate before the might and departing UK.

 

Angela Merkel mocks Theresa May's Brexit negotiations during behind-the-scenes meeting with journalists

"Angela Merkel has mocked Theresa May’s Brexit negotiating tactics, saying the two leaders end up going round in circles because Mrs May never says what she wants.

The German Chancellor said that whenever she asks the Prime Minister what she wants from the EU, she always replies: “Make me an offer.”

Mrs Merkel is said to have left journalists laughing “uproariously” when she gave them a behind-the-scenes insight into Brexit talks during her visit to Davos last week."

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/01/29/angela-merkel-theresa-may-never-tells-wants-brexit/

[Grouse]

57 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

And that is exactly what is so appalling about the hard-core Brexiters. Leave the EU no matter what the cost is to the country and young people's future in particular.

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They don't give a damn

 

Komodo Cons see a way to make more money by slashing corporation tax, dumping employment law, and dropping environmental legislation. They will import from the lowest price countries and drive workers (many of them Brexiters, bless them) to the poor house.

[Khun Han]

22 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Yep, the EU is prostrate before the might and departing UK.

 

Angela Merkel mocks Theresa May's Brexit negotiations during behind-the-scenes meeting with journalists

"Angela Merkel has mocked Theresa May’s Brexit negotiating tactics, saying the two leaders end up going round in circles because Mrs May never says what she wants.

The German Chancellor said that whenever she asks the Prime Minister what she wants from the EU, she always replies: “Make me an offer.”

Mrs Merkel is said to have left journalists laughing “uproariously” when she gave them a behind-the-scenes insight into Brexit talks during her visit to Davos last week."

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/01/29/angela-merkel-theresa-may-never-tells-wants-brexit/

 

They must have been German journalists (I believe Merkel doesn't speak English anyway) to have found her paticularly German humour so hilarious.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

The EU have been consistent from day one and all Barnier is doing is re-iterating their position.  The Brexit team are flip flopping about as they have done since the start of this mess.  What is the point of saying "over to you"?  Their position is clear and they are asking Britain to decide what they want to do.

 

For May to keep proclaiming that we are leaving the customs union (just to placate the Brexiteers and stop a leadership challenge) she is digging herself and the country into a deeper hole.  How on earth she can keep her word to Ireland, given her current rhetoric, is beyond me. Will we see the UK leaving the customs union only to have a "new bespoke" customs union created?  Just the same except in name.

 

So many questions and no clear answers.

 

 

The UK government has stated that it has no problem with a frictionless border once we leave the EU, as has UK Revenue and Customs. The border issue is one which has been manufactured entirely by the EU and ROI. And one has to wonder about ROI motivation behind this.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

They must have been German journalists (I believe Merkel doesn't speak English anyway) to have found her paticularly German humour so hilarious.

I guess you don't see the obvious ludicrousness of Merkel's stance.

There is a long running thread on thaivisa titled May Ready for Tough Talks Over Brexit. That title is clearly and hilariously exactly opposite to the actual case.

[rockingrobin]

10 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

The UK government has stated that it has no problem with a frictionless border once we leave the EU, as has UK Revenue and Customs. The border issue is one which has been manufactured entirely by the EU and ROI. And one has to wonder about ROI motivation behind this.

You cannot have a frictionless border if leaving the Single Market.

[ilostmypassword]

11 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

You cannot have a frictionless border if leaving the Single Market.

Maybe he has a plan to coat all goods with Vaseline?

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

the EU position ?

 

the EU has actually no say in the matter, as I have told you before - the UK is leaving the EU not the EU leaving the UK

 

what part of that don't you understand, I find it very simple indeed 

It appears your overwhelming hatred for the EU is blinkering what is obvious to most of us.  Maybe we should approach this a different way.

 

If the EU has "no position" then what are May and Davis trying to negotiate?  Why is Davis saying that he is sure we can "strike a deal with the EU"?  Why are Rees-Mogg and the Brexiteers telling May she has to harden her approach to the negotiations or face a leadership challenge?  Why hasn't May walked away from the EU and saved herself the excruciating embarrassment that she is experiencing every day?

 

 

4 hours ago, smedly said:

and you don't think the EU will be damaged when they loose one of their only 4 net contributors never mind the trade that many countries in the EU heavily rely on with the UK

 

The damage will be mitigated both ways which is why there will be a deal 

Yes the EU will be damaged by Britain leaving.  They don't want us to leave, that is why they are going to make it as hard as possible.  They have said that from the start!  Still according to you the EU has "no position" so this is irrelevant.

 

"The damage will be mitigated both ways which is why there will be a deal".  So you now agree that we will do a deal?  Very confusing.