UK threatens to cut off aid cash to charities after Oxfam sex report

[pagallim]

[7by7]

On ‎14‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 3:48 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

On ‎12‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 1:53 PM, 7by7 said:

Something you both, and those who have posted similar views, have missed is that reportedly many of the prostitutes involved were underage! 

 

Oxfam workers could face UK prosecution over sex crimes

"reportedly" is not proof. 

 Indeed, and I did not say that it is.

 

What I did say in a later post was that such reports should be investigated. 

 

Do you not agree, and if not, why not?

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Indeed, and I did not say that it is.

 

What I did say in a later post was that such reports should be investigated. 

 

Do you not agree, and if not, why not?

If a crime was committed in Haiti it is up to the Haitian authorities to investigate it. I don't see why the British government is getting knicker twisted about this, except for bad publicity in the gutter press.

If it wasn't in the news no one would give a monkey's about it.

 

 

[MaeJoMTB]

25 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Indeed, and I did not say that it is.

What I did say in a later post was that such reports should be investigated. 

Do you not agree, and if not, why not?

I agree with TBL,

If a complaint has been made to the police in Haiti, then the Haiti authorities should investigate and then possibly prosecute. Has such a complaint been made?

 

International law?

After a successful prosecution, Haiti could apply to the British authorities for extradition.

 

Home country law?

As far as I know, there is no basis in UK law for any investigation.

 

Employment law?

If my employer asked me what I was doing outside of my working hours, in any country, they would get a very short answer. MYOB.

Edited February 15, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[Credo]

On 2/14/2018 at 11:51 AM, Bluespunk said:

What exactly were the “extracurricular activities” the guards decided they were invited to do?

 

I don't remember for sure.   Apparently, they approached the ladies thinking they were wanting sex.   There was no rape, but I think there was some unwanted touching.   

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, Credo said:

I don't remember for sure.   Apparently, they approached the ladies thinking they were wanting sex.   There was no rape, but I think there was some unwanted touching.   

Then, I’d say it’s right it was the guards were the ones who got in the fecal matter. 

[7by7]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If a crime was committed in Haiti it is up to the Haitian authorities to investigate it. I don't see why the British government is getting knicker twisted about this, except for bad publicity in the gutter press.

If allegations have been made that employees of a British organisation have been indulging their perverted, evil desires upon vulnerable children they were supposed to be helping, then it is surely a matter of urgency that the organisation concerned investigate and if they find that such allegations have any substance then they must either refer the matter to the police in the country where the crime took place or, if the perpetrator is a British citizen, then to the UK's National Crime agency, who have the power to prosecute such crime committed abroad by British citizens.

 

One example from June 2016: Richard Huckle given 22 life sentences for abuse of Malaysian children

Quote

One of Britain’s worst predatory paedophiles, who targeted, groomed and abused up to 200 Malaysian babies and children and shared images of his horrific crimes on the dark web, has been handed 22 life sentences.

Richard Huckle, 30, a photographer from Ashford in Kent, who posed as an English teacher and philanthropist in poor Christian communities in Kuala Lumpur, admitted an unprecedented 71 offences, including rapes, against young children aged between six months and 12 years between 2006 and 2014.

 

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't see why the British government is getting knicker twisted about this, except for bad publicity in the gutter press.

If it wasn't in the news no one would give a monkey's about it.

Which was exactly the case in Rochdale and other UK cities; nobody in authority gave a monkey's about the wholesale grooming of vulnerable underage girls for prostitution until it was in the press and so became public knowledge!

 

Are you saying those crimes should have been ignored because the people who first exposed it were those you call 'the gutter press?' I hope not!

 

[7by7]

7 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I agree with TBL..................

I refer you to the reply I gave to him.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 12:05 AM, 7by7 said:

If allegations have been made that employees of a British organisation have been indulging their perverted, evil desires upon vulnerable children they were supposed to be helping, then it is surely a matter of urgency that the organisation concerned investigate and if they find that such allegations have any substance then they must either refer the matter to the police in the country where the crime took place or, if the perpetrator is a British citizen, then to the UK's National Crime agency, who have the power to prosecute such crime committed abroad by British citizens.

Where is there any allegation of children being involved? All I see is that some aid workers chose to pay some prostitutes during their off time with their own money.

 

[7by7]

On ‎19‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 7:52 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Where is there any allegation of children being involved? All I see is that some aid workers chose to pay some prostitutes during their off time with their own money.

 

Oxfam was told of aid workers raping and sexually exploiting children in Haiti a decade ago

Quote

Aid agencies including Oxfam were warned that aid workers were sexually abusing children in Haiti a decade ago, The Independent can reveal.

Children as young as six were being coerced into sex in exchange for food and necessities, according to a damning report by Save the Children, which called for urgent action including the creation of a global watchdog.

 

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Oxfam was told of aid workers raping and sexually exploiting children in Haiti a decade ago

 

I wouldnt be surprised if the top people were involved as well .

[F4UCorsair]

So many news headlines nowadays are no more than concocted outrage at humans displaying human nature.
 
Visiting a prostitute - consenting adults engaged in an economic transaction in their own time - is now not only 'criminal activity' but 'sexual abuse'? World's gone mad.

It's not that simple.

The aid workers are in a position of power, using their positions to prey on vulnerable people they are there to help.

I'm sure some will argue that paying for sex IS helping, but it's exploitation.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Oxfam was told of aid workers raping and sexually exploiting children in Haiti a decade ago

 

 

 

18 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Children as young as six were being coerced into sex in exchange for food and necessities, according to a damning report by Save the Children, which called for urgent action including the creation of a global watchdog.

Is there any actual proof other than by a report from an organisation that stands to benefit financially from such stories?

If this came out a decade ago, and nothing was done, perhaps it's because the people that could have done something were not convinced there was any actual problem.

I wasn't there, so I can't say either way, but the media have been very quiet on what would have been a big story, so perhaps they never found anything big enough to report on. 

NB, they did break the story as how the UN infected Haiti with cholera.

 

[CharlesSwann]

19 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

It's not that simple.

The aid workers are in a position of power, using their positions to prey on vulnerable people they are there to help.

I'm sure some will argue that paying for sex IS helping, but it's exploitation.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

I don't agree with the 'vulnerable people' idea that is rampant in these kind of stories nowadays. It's typical snowflake mentality. It's a mechanism to scapegoat, to blame other people for everything. It absolves people of any responsibility for their own actions.

 

Adults should be responsible for themselves, no matter what their circumstances. They have to exercise judgement, that's all part of life. They shouldn't be so coddled. Next, people will be litigating against salesmen who sold them something they realise later they didn't really want.

 

The west is turning effete. It has to be combatted because the rest of the world (such as China and Russia and the Islamic world) are staying strong. History shows what happens to effete societies - and it is already happening in Europe.

Let that sink in, as PJW would say.

 

Edited February 23, 2018 by CharlesSwann

[Basil B]

Next time there is a natural disaster and we have the usual appeals for money.

 

I will understand them more when they say "Please help we have people on the ground working their nuts off..."

[MaeJoMTB]

26 minutes ago, CharlesSwann said:

The west is turning effete. It has to be combatted because the rest of the world (such as China and Russia and the Islamic world) are staying strong. History shows what happens to effete societies - and it is already happening in Europe.

Let that sink in, as PJW would say.

I don't agree with your conclusion.

This is not "the west turning effete", this is a problem directed at white men, and the end result will be the assimilation and subjugation of the white race.

[CharlesSwann]

17 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I don't agree with your conclusion.

This is not "the west turning effete", this is a problem directed at white men, and the end result will be the assimilation and subjugation of the white race.

It's a problem concocted by feminists against white men - in particular, the BBC's head of news who has pushed anti-male stories to the front page pretty much every day recently.

Btw, I presume you meant 'not' in your last phrase, otherwise you would be agreeing with me, though I suppose the west will come to its senses before then.

 

In Haiti, women becoming prostitutes in straitened circumstances is just adaptive behaviour, and the occupation is no more demeaning and soul-destroying than the experiences that many first-world white males have to put up with daily in their office jobs - speaking from personal near-suicidal experience (but I don't whine about it, just tell myself to toughen up).

 

What's worrying about this Oxfam story is not that some guys used prostitutes, but the dangerous trend it represents in media-driven social engineering by spreading concocted outrage.

Edited February 23, 2018 by CharlesSwann

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, CharlesSwann said:

It's a problem concocted by feminists against white men - in particular, the BBC's head of news who has pushed anti-male stories to the front page pretty much every day recently.

Btw, I presume you meant 'not' in your last phrase, otherwise you would be agreeing with me, though I suppose the west will come to its senses before then.

 

In Haiti, women becoming prostitutes in straitened circumstances is just adaptive behaviour, and the occupation is no more demeaning and soul-destroying than the experiences that many first-world white males have to put up with daily in their office jobs - speaking from personal near-suicidal experience (but I don't whine about it, just tell myself to toughen up).

 

What's worrying about this Oxfam story is the dangerous trend it represents in media-driven social engineering.

The new "buzz word" being bandied about is "toxic masculinity", which can be used to attack men in almost any situation feminists don't like, ie any situation in which men behave like actual men.

[MaeJoMTB]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The new "buzz word" being bandied about is "toxic masculinity", which can be used to attack men in almost any situation feminists don't like, ie any situation in which men behave like actual men.

The 'buzz word' only applies to white men, Muslim men get a free pass.

[7by7]

On ‎23‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 5:08 AM, MaeJoMTB said:

I don't agree with your conclusion.

This is not "the west turning effete", this is a problem directed at white men, and the end result will be the assimilation and subjugation of the white race.

 

 Contrary to your belief, condemnation of prostitution is not the product of 21st century PC leftie, multiculturalism! ‘We say that slavery has vanished from European civilization, but this is not true. Slavery still exists, but now it applies only to women and its name is prostitution.’—VICTOR HUGO, Les Misérables (1862)

 

Accusations have been made against Oxfam workers; those accusations must be fully investigated; even if you and those who have posted similar wish to brush it all under the carpet.

 

On ‎23‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 1:47 PM, MaeJoMTB said:

The 'buzz word' only applies to white men, Muslim men get a free pass.

Your white supremacist attitude, based upon all your posts in the various topics on this matter, can be summed up thus:-

 

"White men from a Christian background exploit vulnerable non white women and/or girls for sex: understandable, men have needs and the women and girls were paid.

 

Brown men from a Muslim background exploit vulnerable white women and/or girls for sex: they are animals who deserve the most painful of punishments."

 

To me, and I hope all those with a conscience, the situations are identical, both are inexcusable and both sets of exploiters deserve punishment to the full extent of the law. As the Muslim taxi drivers in Rochdale and elsewhere have been; whilst many white Christians haven't. For example Pope Francis ‘Punishes’ Pedo Priests With Prayers-Not-Prison Scheme. I can easily imagine the furore if a senior Muslim religious leader suggested the same for the Rochdale etc. taxi drivers!

 

Yes, there are sex workers who entered the profession voluntarily and enjoy it. But if all the relevant research and testimonies are to be believed, and I don't see why not, then the majority are forced into it through exploitation, coercion or poverty.

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by 7by7

[7by7]

On ‎23‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 3:42 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Is there any actual proof other than by a report from an organisation that stands to benefit financially from such stories?

 

How about accusations from a former high up Oxfam employee? Oxfam's former safeguarding chief 'told management and Charity Commission of sex-for-aid claims in 2015'

Quote

The Charity Commission has been forced to defend its own investigations after Oxfam’s former head of safeguarding claimed she told the watchdog women were being coerced into sex for aid.

Plenty more examples for those who care to look.

 

On ‎23‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 3:42 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

If this came out a decade ago, and nothing was done, perhaps it's because the people that could have done something were not convinced there was any actual problem.

The Muslim taxi driver grooming atrocities in the UK went on for a long time without anything being done by those in a position to stop it before being discovered by the press and thus becoming public knowledge. 

 

Nothing was done by the people who could have, and should have, done something for a number of reasons. 

 

Same here, I suspect.

 

But, of course, we wont know until and unless the matter is fully investigated.

 

Why don't you want such an investigation?

[MaeJoMTB]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Your white supremacist attitude, based upon all your posts in the various topics on this matter, can be summed up thus:-

Nope, I like the Muslim religion and see it as the way forward for men, I embrace and welcome Sharia Law in the west.

Don't see how I can be a 'white supremacist' when I believe the white man is finished.

 

According to the SPLC, they would class me as a 'Male supremacist' (AKA supporter of Islam)

Presumably feminists would then be classed as 'Female Supremacists"

Edited February 25, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[Sir Dude]

Whilst they are at it (cutting off these aid businesses)...they can slash the 13 billion pound international aid budget and save the NHS,  increase pensions and make the emergency service plus the army decent.

 

Waste of money...soft power projection means squat now, maybe used to but doesn't anymore.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 5:24 PM, 7by7 said:

 

How about accusations from a former high up Oxfam employee? Oxfam's former safeguarding chief 'told management and Charity Commission of sex-for-aid claims in 2015'

Plenty more examples for those who care to look.

 

The Muslim taxi driver grooming atrocities in the UK went on for a long time without anything being done by those in a position to stop it before being discovered by the press and thus becoming public knowledge. 

 

Nothing was done by the people who could have, and should have, done something for a number of reasons. 

 

Same here, I suspect.

 

But, of course, we wont know until and unless the matter is fully investigated.

 

Why don't you want such an investigation?

Oxfam's former safeguarding chief 'told management and Charity Commission of sex-for-aid claims in 2015'

Who happens to be a "she". Say no more!

 

Nothing was done by the people who could have, and should have, done something for a number of reasons. 

As I understand it, because it was not PC to investigate Muslims for any reason whatsoever, and it is the same reason ( PC ), apparently, that if prostitutes are not Caucasian, somehow they must be being exploited. Prostitution is legal in the UK, so apparently UK prostitutes are not being exploited.

 

Who says I don't want an "investigation"? I just have absolutely zero faith that it won't be a political witch hunt seeking to make the facts fit the predetermined conclusion.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 5:11 PM, 7by7 said:

 

 Contrary to your belief, condemnation of prostitution is not the product of 21st century PC leftie, multiculturalism! ‘We say that slavery has vanished from European civilization, but this is not true. Slavery still exists, but now it applies only to women and its name is prostitution.’—VICTOR HUGO, Les Misérables (1862)

 

Accusations have been made against Oxfam workers; those accusations must be fully investigated; even if you and those who have posted similar wish to brush it all under the carpet.

 

Your white supremacist attitude, based upon all your posts in the various topics on this matter, can be summed up thus:-

 

"White men from a Christian background exploit vulnerable non white women and/or girls for sex: understandable, men have needs and the women and girls were paid.

 

Brown men from a Muslim background exploit vulnerable white women and/or girls for sex: they are animals who deserve the most painful of punishments."

 

To me, and I hope all those with a conscience, the situations are identical, both are inexcusable and both sets of exploiters deserve punishment to the full extent of the law. As the Muslim taxi drivers in Rochdale and elsewhere have been; whilst many white Christians haven't. For example Pope Francis ‘Punishes’ Pedo Priests With Prayers-Not-Prison Scheme. I can easily imagine the furore if a senior Muslim religious leader suggested the same for the Rochdale etc. taxi drivers!

 

Yes, there are sex workers who entered the profession voluntarily and enjoy it. But if all the relevant research and testimonies are to be believed, and I don't see why not, then the majority are forced into it through exploitation, coercion or poverty.

 

 

 

But if all the relevant research and testimonies are to be believed, and I don't see why not, then the majority are forced into it through exploitation, coercion or poverty.

Yes, that's possibly true, but we ain't talking about prostitutes worldwide, just the ones in Haiti that slept with aid workers. So prove THEY were forced into it.

 

Once this little hate on men fest is over, perhaps all those that are appalled by exploitation, coercion and poverty can go help all those sweat shop workers in Bangladesh and SEA making clothes and shoes for western people that want cheap stuff and don't care if it is made by virtual slaves.

PS I bet it won't happen.

[MaeJoMTB]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

But if all the relevant research and testimonies are to be believed, and I don't see why not, then the majority are forced into it through exploitation, coercion or poverty.

Yes, that's possibly true, but we ain't talking about prostitutes worldwide, just the ones in Haiti that slept with aid workers. So prove THEY were forced into it.

I've been making an in depth investigation of prostitution in Thailand and the Philippines.

Only met 1 girl who was sold into prostitution, and 1 other (different girl) who disliked the personal bit of the transaction.

 

Many of the women INSISTED on the physical part of the transaction, even though it wasn't always required (due to drink, etc).

If you'd asked me before I came out here, I would have agreed with the BOLD, but after seeing for myself I can state it isn't true.

A guesstimate would be, 33% of the women are working because they like the sex, another 33% are drunks who want a life of party time, and the other 1/3 need the money but aren't really averse to the activities.

 

Never been to Haiti, so can't say for sure what is happening there.

[7by7]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

<snip>

Oxfam's former safeguarding chief 'told management and Charity Commission of sex-for-aid claims in 2015'

Who happens to be a "she". Say no more!

 So women, in your view, all have a political agenda and so are not to be believed?

 

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

<snip>

Nothing was done by the people who could have, and should have, done something for a number of reasons. 

As I understand it, because it was not PC to investigate Muslims for any reason whatsoever, and it is the same reason ( PC ), apparently, that if prostitutes are not Caucasian, somehow they must be being exploited.

There were many reason why the grooming and exploitation of young girls for prostitution in Rochdale and elsewhere was allowed to continue for so long. Start with the Coffey Inquiry. Most of those girls were Caucasian, so based upon your remark above you must believe that they were not being exploited!

 

It is you who has brought the race of the women into it, not I; and you are wrong. Most women working in prostitution do not do so through choice; whatever their race.

 

6 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

<snip>

I've been making an in depth investigation of prostitution in Thailand and the Philippines.

Only met 1 girl who was sold into prostitution,

That's one too many; what did you do to help the poor girl; except pay her money she would have been forced to pass on to her boss?

 

Of course, the other women you say you regularly use may tell you that they love their job at the same time as they call you a 'hansum' man; but how many are telling the truth, I wonder? Very few, if all research and confidential interviews with prostitutes, of all races and locations, are to be believed.

 

But don't either of you let the truth trouble your conscience; continue to believe it's all lies by man hating feminazis and the  soft in the head leftie PC brigade. You'll sleep better that way.

[observer90210]

Oxfam, UN, Medecins Sans Frontières, the ICRC...all these humanitarian organisations would have some serious cleaning work to do within their structures....if not, it goes for their credibility, thus could jeopardize their funding and lead to compromise their freedom to pass within the troubled nations  who will be suspicious on their intentions.....

 

On the other hand, their work is highly stressful in challenging environments....human nature can bring up some urges or pulsions to compensate....a tricky situation that is absolutely unacceptable obviously, but can be understandable.

Edited February 27, 2018 by observer90210

[MaeJoMTB]

6 hours ago, 7by7 said:

That's one too many; what did you do to help the poor girl; except pay her money she would have been forced to pass on to her boss?

Never paid her money, she was the wife of a friend, she was running her own bar by then.

Told me about her past, sad story, sold by her mother to a Thai brothel age 14.

 

PS. I rarely 'see' anyone more than once, but I may have a drink or play pool or chat more often.

I did live with a woman who worked with them, and she always told me 'in the locker room' many talked about how they mostly enjoyed their work and the sex part of the job. I had no reason to disbelieve her, I wasn't paying her for sex, sometimes she talked about work and the other girls.

Edited February 28, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, 7by7 said:

So women, in your view, all have a political agenda and so are not to be believed?

LOL. You spoil your own case by making sweeping generalisations.

Of course I don't mean ALL, just ones in high positions in organisations with a political component.

I believe them as much as I believe politicians.

Edited February 28, 2018 by thaibeachlovers