U.S. Senate rejects immigration bills, leaves Dreamers in limbo

[heybruce]

54 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The dreamers need to be 'legalized'- most can't even speak any language but English.  The problem is how do you stop more from coming and build up in numbers and 20 years from now there is the same problem.

 

There has to be rational; legal; and humanitarian Immigration policy that is developed and then enforced. Frankly, all of the illegals now in the Us have to be made legal- actual deportation would make America look worse in the eyes of the World than it already is. In fact, deportation would cost billions.  However, anyone convicted of  a serious felony would need to go unless there are mitigating situations.

 

As someone mentioned- time to crack down on the employers who are using H1 Visas to bring in people with HI Tech skills and paying them 50% less than what an American would be paid. This is completely against the law and must be enforced.  In addition- there needs to be a guest worker program as wealthy farming combines keep hiring illegals and pay them below minimum wage.

there also needs to be a crackdown on illegals coming into America for the sole purpose of getting pregnant- delivering the child in America to get citizenship and then using chain migration to get out family members in legally.  I would hold up citizenship on the child until  an Immigration investigation is concluded.  It is currently automatic.

 

America was built on the backs of Immigrants and I mean literally. Trump's 4 pillars tied to the Dreamers is simple blackmail. However, If I were the Dems- to save the Dreamers- I would give Trump his damn $20 Billion Wall. He may well back off the other nonsense he is spouting.  Let him go down to the Mexican border and look over his 20 Foot high monstrosity and throw the bill over the wall .  He won't get a cent back.

"However, If I were the Dems- to save the Dreamers- I would give Trump his damn $20 Billion Wall."

 

The Democrats should give the President a $20 billion (some estimates are much higher) waste of money that will not prevent illegal immigration, and may increase it by diverting money from more effective border control issues?  Even if one ignores the property rights and environmental issues of the wall, it's a bad idea.

[heybruce]

17 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Really. No other bills are clean, but you think this one should be, why?

Of course all bills should be clean but that's not the reality. Should be changed but probably never going to happen.

Doesn't matter if the wall is needed or not, it was a campaign promise and the centerpiece of Trump's campaign. The military waste more than the entire cost of the wall every year, so clean them up to pay for the wall.

No other bills are clean, so why start now?  Is that your argument?

 

Trump made all kinds of absurd campaign promises, but he was elected President, not king, and he doesn't have unlimited power or access to taxpayer's money.

 

If Trump wants to build the wall using his own money then apply for a refund from Mexico, let him. 

 

If you want to discuss military waste, start another topic.  Don't claim that because there is some government waste, another $20 billion plus is no big deal.

 

 

[heybruce]

27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What I don't understand is why the dreamers were left behind when their parents were deported. Surely parents that loved their kids would have taken them with them? If the parents are still in the US, then they can all be deported together. None of them have a legal right to stay in the US as the child isn't an anchor baby.

I assume that dreamers that were left behind were left with trusted guardians that are legal residents.  Parents who love their children will leave them where they have the best chance of a decent life.

[heybruce]

20 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Haha. I think you will find they speak Spanish pretty well. A recent study apparently found a lot of people can only speak Spanish.

Sources?

[LPCustom69]

6 hours ago, Thaidream said:

A realistic solution is as follows:

 

1. Scratch off a border wall that will cost $20 Billion and instead increase electronic means of control; hire more border agents; and immediately deport anyone committing a felony.

 

2. Immediately amnesty the dreamers- with a path to citizenship

 

3. Establish a category for guest workers so foreign labor can be utilized legally rather than people sneaking across the border to work.

 

4. Establish an amnesty program for current illegals with strict guidelines to legality including payment of taxes and no criminal records other than misdemeanors. 

 

5. Continue the Diversity Lottery held each year but with a limit of 100,000.

 

6.  Continue chain migration but only for those legally in the country and if someone has entered illegally and gives birth to a child- that child is NOT a US citizen but a citizen of the mother's native country.

 

 

 

Not just NO, but Hell NO!

[Jingthing]

There are the votes for dreamer path to citizenship plus significant "wall" funding but "trump" has rejected that. He's insisting on the full on racist four pillars. He'll never have the votes for that and shouldn't either. If the dreamers need to be tragically sacrificed to dodge a hard core racist overall immigration policy then so be it.

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[Thaidream]

JT is right-  the Trump plan is horrid-and definitely racist.  He is using the Dreamers as blackmail to try and get  a new Immigration bill passed that totally destroys what America stands for and makes a mockery of the Statue of Liberty.  The wall is useless and a waste of money- but I would give him the $20 Billion for the Dreamers but not the other points on his agenda.  Trump might blink if the outrage builds towards him and the Repubs should the Dreamers be deported.

[Jingthing]

He's already rejected an even better deal.

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[Scott]

Dreamers and DACA recipients do not have the ability to adjust their status in the US.   The only way they can do so is to leave the country.  

 

In general, I have no problem with the deportation of illegals in the country, but the situation for dreamers is that they were children and the decision to come to the US was not theirs.   They have been in the US nearly all their lives.  

 

Much of the discussion is nothing more than a canard.   Congress can set the number of immigrants and movement from one category to another is done by an administrative regulation. 

 

You cannot bring relatives to the US unless you can support them.   They must be vetted, they must have complete physicals and be free of any excludable diseases (including psychiatric).   Then they must wait in the queue until their number comes up. 

 

Priority is given to the spouse and minor children.   Adult children and siblings can end up waiting for years.  

 

It is businesses that usually ask for the numbers to be increased because we do not have enough of the highly skilled people needed in places such as Silicon Valley.  

 

 

[heybruce]

43 minutes ago, Scott said:

Dreamers and DACA recipients do not have the ability to adjust their status in the US.   The only way they can do so is to leave the country.  

 

In general, I have no problem with the deportation of illegals in the country, but the situation for dreamers is that they were children and the decision to come to the US was not theirs.   They have been in the US nearly all their lives.  

 

Much of the discussion is nothing more than a canard.   Congress can set the number of immigrants and movement from one category to another is done by an administrative regulation. 

 

You cannot bring relatives to the US unless you can support them.   They must be vetted, they must have complete physicals and be free of any excludable diseases (including psychiatric).   Then they must wait in the queue until their number comes up. 

 

Priority is given to the spouse and minor children.   Adult children and siblings can end up waiting for years.  

 

It is businesses that usually ask for the numbers to be increased because we do not have enough of the highly skilled people needed in places such as Silicon Valley.  

 

 

I applaud your attempt to inject objective, factual reality into this subject.  I'm sure you know that it won't work.

 

Immigrants are convenient scapegoats for all ills.  It's BS, but people won't let it go.

[Scott]

Just now, heybruce said:

I applaud your attempt to inject objective, factual reality into this subject.  I'm sure you know that it won't work.

 

Immigrants are convenient scapegoats for all ills.  It's BS, but people won't let it go.

True, but the posting of things which are not true is not permitted.  

 

Immigrants are always an easy target and each year numbers are set and then quietly increased when businesses need more.  

 

And just to be clear, refugees are included in those numbers, so decreasing the number of refugees does NOT decrease the number of immigrants.   The numbers are filled by other immigrants.  

 

Such is life, I guess. 

 

[meechai]

10 hours ago, farcanell said:

anyway... legal path...

so mum and dad sneak in with a one year old... the one year old is now a dreamer, with no connections to the homeland of its parents...

 

yeah... confused again. Your saying that the one year old should have... what... crawled off to immigration and goo gooed about being dragged into America by its parents, and made a legal application?

555 Yes if that is all you can take from that your welcome to your silly analogy

 

Here in the USA we would deport that 1 year old with its parents

But if you like you can help them slip illegally into your country? Or Thailand ?

 

Of course legal path meant for all the so called dreamers the last president mentioned in college & working (illegally)

[Jingthing]

If "trump" / republicans really want to run on their nasty immigration scheme, bring it on!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/02/16/trump-and-republicans-will-own-this-disaster/

Quote

 

Trump and Republicans will own this disaster

...

But the position of Trump and Republicans has now been exposed. They will protect the dreamers only in exchange for help in stepping up deportations and huge expenditures on a border wall and large cuts to legal immigration, all of which are hideously unpopular. Now that this dispute has been clarified, Democrats should want to take it into the midterm elections.

 

 

[farcanell]

9 hours ago, meechai said:

 

Here in the USA we would deport that 1 year old with its parents

 

This is the problem, dude.... you did not deport the one year old... if you had, then there would be no problem now

 

because your government (immigration... whatever department) failed years ago, it’s considered immoral to try and toss them out now... and from what I’ve seen in the news items, this is the view of the majority of Americans.... that’s kind of obvious from the amount of opposition regards tossing them out

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 4:46 PM, heybruce said:

A clean bill for a simple up or down vote on the DACA issue is playing politics?  Only if you insist politics should be dirty and misleading.

555555555555555555

Of course they are playing politics, both sides, and of course it's dirty and misleading. That's what politicians do. I doubt any of them actually care about the dreamers unless it's because they are their gardeners and maids.

 

Anyway, if you think Trump is going to abandon his wall to allow a load of people his base don't want in the country to stay, I have a bridge for sale.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 4:58 PM, heybruce said:

I assume that dreamers that were left behind were left with trusted guardians that are legal residents.  Parents who love their children will leave them where they have the best chance of a decent life.

Then they will be able to give them a loving home when their children go back to their home country to live with them.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, Thaidream said:

JT is right-  the Trump plan is horrid-and definitely racist.  He is using the Dreamers as blackmail to try and get  a new Immigration bill passed that totally destroys what America stands for and makes a mockery of the Statue of Liberty.  The wall is useless and a waste of money- but I would give him the $20 Billion for the Dreamers but not the other points on his agenda.  Trump might blink if the outrage builds towards him and the Repubs should the Dreamers be deported.

Trump might blink if the outrage builds towards him and the Repubs should the Dreamers be deported.

That's only the Dems side. Everyone else will be cheering.

[heybruce]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

555555555555555555

Of course they are playing politics, both sides, and of course it's dirty and misleading. That's what politicians do. I doubt any of them actually care about the dreamers unless it's because they are their gardeners and maids.

 

Anyway, if you think Trump is going to abandon his wall to allow a load of people his base don't want in the country to stay, I have a bridge for sale.

It's not Trump's wall unless he pays for it. It's also not his base's wall unless they pay for it.  Tens of billions on a wall that won't work is idiotic and taxpayers should not have to pay for it. 

 

The vast majority of the country want the dreamers to stay.   If the Republicans refuse to separate the issue of the dreamers from border security and the wall, there will be no changes in border security, no wall, and no resolution of the dreamer issue.

 

The courts seem willing to delay deportation of the dreamers indefinitely.  It could work in the Democrats favor to stand firm on the issue and deny the Republicans any accomplishments on immigration and the wall until the election later this year.

[heybruce]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Then they will be able to give them a loving home when their children go back to their home country to live with them.

The majority of the country does not want that to happen.  Trump claims he doesn't want it to happen.  Only racists want it to happen.

[heybruce]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Trump might blink if the outrage builds towards him and the Repubs should the Dreamers be deported.

That's only the Dems side. Everyone else will be cheering.

By "Everyone else" I assume you mean 14% of the population.

 

" The Post-ABC survey finds 86 percent support for dreamers who had been eligible for renewable two-year work permits under a deferred action program started by President Barack Obama to remain in the country."   https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/survey-finds-strong-support-for-dreamers/2017/09/24/df3c885c-a16f-11e7-b14f-f41773cd5a14_story.html?utm_term=.4fcb5fa21414

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

The majority of the country does not want that to happen.  Trump claims he doesn't want it to happen.  Only racists want it to happen.

Ummmmm. Only racists want children to live with their parents?

OK, whatever you say then.

Have a nice day.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

It's not Trump's wall unless he pays for it. It's also not his base's wall unless they pay for it.  Tens of billions on a wall that won't work is idiotic and taxpayers should not have to pay for it. 

 

The vast majority of the country want the dreamers to stay.   If the Republicans refuse to separate the issue of the dreamers from border security and the wall, there will be no changes in border security, no wall, and no resolution of the dreamer issue.

 

The courts seem willing to delay deportation of the dreamers indefinitely.  It could work in the Democrats favor to stand firm on the issue and deny the Republicans any accomplishments on immigration and the wall until the election later this year.

So be it then. The border patrol is intercepting loads of illegals so that will continue, and everything else stays the same except the dreamers will all be heading home.

In the end, the mid terms will be decided by other issues, not the dreamers, and by refusing to do a deal and save them, the Dems will be giving the GOP a stick to beat them with during the campaign.

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ummmmm. Only racists want children to live with their parents?

OK, whatever you say then.

Have a nice day.

Only racists want to deport people who have lived here since they were children, are employed or in school, and have no criminal record. 

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So be it then. The border patrol is intercepting loads of illegals so that will continue, and everything else stays the same except the dreamers will all be heading home.

In the end, the mid terms will be decided by other issues, not the dreamers, and by refusing to do a deal and save them, the Dems will be giving the GOP a stick to beat them with during the campaign.

You didn't read what you replied to.  Unless the Supreme Court overrules the District Court ruling that halted Trump's plan to end the DACA program, the dreamers won't be expelled.    https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-court-immigration/u-s-top-court-mulls-whether-to-take-up-dreamers-dispute-idUSKCN1G01QY   

 

If that happens, and the Republicans refuse to separate the DACA issue from wall funding or border security, they will go into the mid-terms with no legislative accomplishments other than a tax cut driving trillion dollar deficits.  I think the Democrats can live with that outcome.

[Scott]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ummmmm. Only racists want children to live with their parents?

OK, whatever you say then.

Have a nice day.

Stop trolling and making untrue assumptions.  

 

Read the criteria for being a member of DACA and current policy on family unification.   Children are persons under the age of 18 and generally they will be returned to their parents unless there is a compelling reason for them to be in the US.   The compelling reasons are fairly specific.  

[Jingthing]

The reason there is no deal is on "trump" and on "trump" alone.

 

Quote

 

Mr. Trump to the ‘dreamers’: Drop dead.

PRESIDENT TRUMP has often spoken and tweeted of the soft spot in his “great heart” for “dreamers,” the hundreds of thousands of young immigrants brought to this country as children. This supposed concern has now been revealed as a con.

 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/mr-trump-to-the-dreamers-drop-dead/2018/02/17/26799300-1320-11e8-8ea1-c1d91fcec3fe_story.html

Edited February 18, 2018 by Jingthing